Lurker > MarvelousCaptn
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| Board List | Page List: 1 |
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| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 6:25:16 PM #38 | Lirishae posted... The Cato Institute, a right-wing think tank founded by the Koch brothers, says corporate welfare is a thing that costs taxpayers nearly a hundred billion dollars a year. Why do you persist in saying otherwise? The Cato Institute is a LIBERTARIAN think tank. On a right-left spectrum, it's viewed as being rightwing. However, on a political compass, it's another beast entirely. And you didn't include a link so I can't examine those claims, but it's likely that the "cost" is in lost taxes. As a general rule, when it comes to criticizing corporations on certain issues, they're going to be a lot closer to the left than the right even if other issues are right-facing. Lirishae posted...
Foreign intervention is more than just military intervention, it also includes foreign aid and other nation-building efforts. And military intervention can stabilize regions rather than just disrupt them. Some of the US's larger disruptions have technically been less militarily-involved, including its role in supporting the Arab Spring which also greatly contributed to destabilizing the region. And you were specifically suggesting that the US has some reluctance to give money to the poor when welfare is our LARGEST expenditure. Doctor Foxx posted... Is this the only song that plays anymore, it's old and the remix is worse All I know is that you and others have constantly attacked me for defending what you criticize as being racist. I turn around and criticize something that's clearly racist and I get suspended for it. What kind of a message does that send? --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 6:25:12 PM #37 | Lirishae posted... ...You alleged that corporate welfare wasn't really a thing, just bailouts and tax breaks. The links I provided showed that there is more to corporate welfare than bailouts and tax breaks. It also discusses bailouts as part of that subject. That it in no way proves you correct. If you can't argue honestly, please don't bother replying. You claim that, but your links specifically reference bailouts and tax breaks. Plus "wasn't really" (or "isn't really") isn't the same thing as a flat-out "isn't", which is an important distinction because most references to corporate welfare ARE about tax breaks and that other things -- like subsidies -- are more for groups like farmers which, when the US government enacts policy to hurt them, is something of a course correction. And I would argue that it's vital to American interests to preserve American agriculture BECAUSE reliance on foreign nations puts the US at risk Lirishae posted... A lot of sites, including Fox News, reported this. Even Trump acknowledged it in one of his tweets. You said it doesn't pay taxes, not that it doesn't pay federal taxes. This was specifically addressed in my link that he didn't bother to read. Lirishae posted... Except that's not what welfare is. It's assistance for people in bad circumstances. Most who accept government help don't stay on it forever. Those that do generally have reasons that make it difficult to find work, whether it's obvious ones like heart problems or less obvious ones like undiagnosed [----]. So you agree that it's not an investment contrary to your prior claims? And contrary to your claim, a lot of government welfare programs *are* permanent. There's no term limit to Section-8, there's functionally no limit on SNAP benefits (assuming certain criteria are met), etc. There are people who were born into the welfare benefits system and relied on it exclusively throughout their lives. In other cases, you had people dependent on it throughout their lives. Otherwise I also question your specific examples. Lirishae posted... Nice personal attack there. I've replied to you with this statistic before. So you think paying 9% of all federal taxes makes it okay that they're only paying a tax rate of 13%? Do I understand you correctly? Well, it was in response to a not-nice personal attack. As for "replying with this statistic before," it wasn't in this topic and you can't reasonably expect me to be aware of something you might have posted weeks ago in a topic I'm not following at this point. And, I should remind you, topic tracking isn't working for me right now because certain individuals have been maliciously abusing the moderation system. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | "Maybe it's not to late to learn how to love and forget how to hate" |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 5:57:53 PM #23 | darkknight109 posted... kind9 posted...Don't blame America, blame Christianity. Slavery is condoned in the bible. It's worth noting that at least some historians have argued that the American Revolution was carried out largely to preserve the institution of slavery. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2009/6/9/740365/- https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/books/review/04staples.html That said, slavery wasn't finally outlawed across British colonies until 1834, fewer than 30 years before the Emancipation Proclamation. While I haven't extensively researched a timeline, I kinda expect that America and the UK were having similar debates around the same time... then again, even the founding fathers who criticized slavery were often slaveholders themselves (including Alexander Hamilton, who also bought and sold slaves on behalf of relatives). https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2016/10/correcting-hamilton/ --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 5:37:41 PM #33 | The_tall_midget posted... MarvelousCaptn posted...My remark would have been perfectly clear to anybody opened up the link to that article, which is the first thing anybody entering the topic should have done and the first thing the reviewing mod should have done. The reviewing mod clearly didn't, which is why he relied exclusively on a complete mischaracterization of what I said that ignores the fact that I specifically denounced it again. Mead's interpretation is lunacy and it's highly telling that he chose to falsely allege TWO different variations of my remark, both of which are slanted to unrecognizably distort what I had actually said and to fundamentally change the nature of my remark. Which might be a good point if I wasn't CRITICIZING somebody for making racist remarks. If you're taking the same stance as everybody else, in no logical world should that result in a moderation. Criticizing racism is one of the few things you should expect to be 100% fine on. This is like being pulled over for driving the speed limit and stopping at stop signs. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 5:31:59 PM #30 | My remark would have been perfectly clear to anybody opened up the link to that article, which is the first thing anybody entering the topic should have done and the first thing the reviewing mod should have done. The reviewing mod clearly didn't, which is why he relied exclusively on a complete mischaracterization of what I said that ignores the fact that I specifically denounced it again. Mead's interpretation is lunacy and it's highly telling that he chose to falsely allege TWO different variations of my remark, both of which are slanted to unrecognizably distort what I had actually said and to fundamentally change the nature of my remark. While I sometimes point out bias, this is more a matter of the mod team's negligence and I'm beginning to suspect that many of the things I've ascribed to malice on the mods' part may instead result from an over-reliance on taking the accuser at his word rather than actually examining the situation. It would certainly explain some of the most ludicrous moderations I've received lately. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Yooo they put titans in fortnite! |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 5:15:55 PM #14 | SmokeMassTree posted... What other titans are there Mythological titans, the Teen Titans, the football team, the ones from Attack on Titan, the version of the titans from Disney's Hercules, etc. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Karen got treated very poorly |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 5:15:01 PM #2 | Oh, this was one of the Karens to come to mind when I read that. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 5:14:05 PM #28 | The_tall_midget posted... So... why is this devolving in discussions about shoes? Because Reagan made a highly offensive racist joke involving them and Mead, when he marked my post, claimed that I was trying to play the whole thing off as a joke despite repeatedly condemning everything in my post (and the mod apparently never bothered clicking the link to the article for context). Which once again demonstrates that Mead isn't criticizing my views, but is instead pursuing a personal vendetta. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:55:27 PM #26 | Mead posted... No one was talking about fucking shoes dude ....except it was literally in the fucking article. Did you not even open the link in his topic? MarvelousCaptn posted...
There, links to the topic so you can pretend you didn't see it while once again you 100% lie about what was said. Reagan's slur was IMMEDIATELY followed by an offensive joke that played into that slur, which I explicitly referenced in the very post you screencapped. The only conclusion is that the reviewing mod never clicked the link and took your completely false accusation without question. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:51:06 PM #24 | Mead posted... makes my condemnation very explicit No, I called his offensively racist joke about the shoes a joke. The slur was just a slur. He didn't *just* use a slur, he also made a exceedingly crass joke which played in that slur. For anybody not familiar with what Mead is trying to distort, here's the original topic -- where I also clarified my condemnation -- https://news.yahoo.com/ronald-reagan-racist-audio-nixon-110547900.html And the Yahoo article which covers what Reagan said, which is what I was referencing https://news.yahoo.com/ronald-reagan-racist-audio-nixon-110547900.html --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:48:00 PM #22 | Mead posted... MarvelousCaptn posted...Except that's not even close to what I posted, which you already know. And I'm well-aware that you're trolling by trying to goad me into posting an image of the moderation so you could mark me for posting a moderation which, as of yesterday, I learned was against the rules despite seeing people frequently link to their moderations on this board. You posted while I was posting my response. I edited my previous response accordingly with an addition. And again, like the edit notes, the portion at the bottom where I responded to you -- which is what I referenced earlier -- makes my condemnation very explicit whereas you're pretending that I was trying to write it off. I never excused or attempted to write off Reagan's remark and was unequivocal in my condemnation. The real question is why would you pretend anything to the contrary? --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:45:07 PM #20 | Mead posted... The post was deleted but thats 100% exactly what you posted. You were fairly moderated no sense in lying about it now Except that's not even close to what I posted, which you already know. And I'm well-aware that you're trolling by trying to goad me into posting an image of the moderation so you could mark me for posting a moderation which, as of yesterday, I learned was against the rules despite seeing people frequently link to their moderations on this board. Likewise, everybody here knows that it's not what I said because, if it actually was, you'd get modded for reposting a moderation. Not to mention that the actual moderation is listed on whatever archive site you guys use and I had posted an image of it. Mead posted... Hey, look at the top of your post Which is nothing close to what you claimed I said. I condemned his joke as racist and, if you look at the bottom where I responded to you -- ie, what I SPECIFICALLY referenced -- I once again specifically condemned his joke as making his racial slur worse. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:36:14 PM #17 | Lirishae posted... People in those countries DO get a better deal. But poor people usually don't have the means to move. ...in no small part because those nations don't just take anybody who wants to move there. Lirishae posted... The US wouldn't be spending as much if we stopped needless corporate welfare, foreign intervention, and feeding the military industrial complex. But somehow it's okay to give away money to rich people and not poor people. Again, other than bailouts, "corporate welfare" isn't really a thing. While I don't always approve of foreign intervention, it can have long-term benefits for the US especially since it can stem illegal immigration. And as for the "military industrial complex," military spending pales in comparison to our social welfare programs. Discretionary spending in general (of which military spending iirc is the largest item) only makes up something like a third of the total budget. You suggest that we don't give money to the poor, but we do massive amounts of that. Mead posted... Your exact words were Those words don't appear in that post and, more importantly, you're ALREADY changing what you claimed I said from earlier in this same topic. At least try to lie consistently when you're trolling. And the fact that you've repeatedly changed what I said is a crystal clear indication that you couldn't find fault with what I actually said. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:28:59 PM #15 | Lirishae posted... Are you still spouting this lie? Corporations get hundreds of billions of dollars a year, and that's on top of tax breaks. According to the GAO, corporations effectively pay 13% due to all the breaks they get. >Claims that what I said is false >Literally links to a discussion of a bailout which I specifically cited in my post Oh, and that's not even getting into the fact that the auto industry bailout which you cite was paid back. That's just icing on the cake. Granted, I'm not sure you even read the links you provided. Lirishae posted... So, Mr. "Capitalism is good and socialism is bad" thinks the government should bail out businesses that are too big to fail? You do realize that Adam Smith wrote that the government's role in the free market was to create a level playing field, and free market economics didn't work if certain people got special treatment? Obama and GWB made a pragmatic decision which, while violating the spirit of the free market, certainly paid off in the case of the auto industry. In that particular example, had those industries failed, the resulting jobs wouldn't be lost to US competitors but instead foreign firms and it would push the US further behind. While I didn't cite any other bailouts, I think pretty much well-understood among virtually everybody that if the "too big to fail" banks (and again, you were citing something OTHER than what I was talking about and pretending it was belief) had failed, the economic consequences would have been devastating. That said, I should note that most of those banking issues exist BECAUSE the government backs the banks and facilitates things like low-interest loans which wouldn't have happened in an entirely free market system. Big banks are a great example of the kind of crony capitalism that hardly represents free market democracy. Lirishae posted... So you think Amazon paying nothing in taxes isn't ridiculous? Amazon pays taxes. You're parroting a flat-out lie. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/live-updates/general-election/fact-checking-the-second-democratic-debate/does-amazon-pay-any-taxes Lirishae posted... You mean like the hundreds of billions in corporate welfare that makes the rich richer, right? Or are you suggesting we just hoard all the money and not invest in making our country better prepared to compete in the 21st century? Paying people money not to work doesn't make America better prepared to compete in any century. Individual welfare subsidies aren't an investment and it seems like the kind of thing I shouldn't have to explain. Lirishae posted... What part of "they're only paying a 13% rate" do you not understand? What part of anything do you understand? You introduce a statistic -- one that I previously haven't discussed -- and pretend that I objected to it while simultaneously not looking at what that 13% translates to in revenue. But if we're talking numbers, 9% of the overall federal taxes are paid by corporations. (And it should be noted that employers contribute half of that social security payroll tax as well.) https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sources-revenue-federal-government --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 4:11:05 PM #13 | Mead posted...
Know what term is also taught in elementary schools? Propaganda, which is what it is. It's a meaningless talking point solely designed to evoke an emotional -- rather than a rational -- response. Mead posted... What the fuck are you even babbling about you dismissed Reagan calling No, I literally didn't. I objected to his racial slur and even added that the joke he made afterward made the whole thing far, far worse... which you fucking know because I explicitly said the exact thing when responding directly to your post. Not to mention that you're also adding new phrasing ("just a joke") to fundamentally change what was actually said, which is an absurd level of trolling and the kind of false claim that would get anybody else in trouble. Mead posted... if you cant grasp how that is offensive to anyone with decent sensibilities, then you really need to finally take the hint from the mods and take a break from this site If you have to change what I said to make it offensive, it's a pretty strong hint that was there nothing wrong with my original remark which, again, criticized what Reagan said. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | I signed up to volunteer for Bernie Sanders' campaign |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 2:34:58 PM #34 | Mead posted... jfc Zeus how many fucking alts do you need Apparently a lot, considering I'm the only poster in the history of Gamefaqs to get suspended for condemning somebody for making a racist slur and highly offensive racist joke. And, of course, I also get suspended for doing the same kind of shit you do on a daily basis (except, of course, you often go much further and always seem to get away with it) As it stands: Zeus - Suspended for criticizing Reagan Broken Zeus - Purg Donald J Zeus - Banned (for complaining about a mod) Taily Po - Suspended after being baited into proving via screenshot I was suspended for criticizing Reagan. It's most likely going to be banned since it has lower karma than Donald J Zeus did Aaantlion - I have the password saved on my sporadically-functional laptop. Been years since I used the account and can't even remember what email the account is tied to Woken Zeus - Was put into read-only mode because the email I used I couldn't access via my phone and wound up using the laptop at home. That's probably going stay DOA. So, to answer the question, I need a lot more. So far I found this and another one, but as I go through my older email addresses it's possibly I have more I forgot about. At any rate, after years of guys like you falsely accusing me of defending racism, I once again got moderated for criticizing racism. There's probably a moral in there somewhere. Lirishae posted... The only difference is, they call it a "subsidy" and it's given out to corporations instead. Subsidies are usually given out to farmers, etc. I'd hardly call them corporations. And again, usually the "subsidies" are more along the lines of a tax break. Compare that to people who pay no taxes and get free money. Lirishae posted... God forbid we try to invest in a healthy, educated middle class in order to better compete with the rest of the world in the 21st century. Giving free money to the poor isn't investing in the middle class. And the best way to invest in the middle class would be to encourage the growth of good-paying jobs which, ironically enough, would involve tax breaks or outright giving money to new businesses (instead of helping your barista get their third masters degree) Lirishae posted... Nope, we should maintain the status quo, where companies like Amazon pay nothing in taxes Amazon pays taxes. Lirishae posted... the government is essentially subsidizing its workers in the form of food stamps and other welfare. ....first, isn't the kind of shit you're supporting? Second, if you don't like that happening, then why aren't you protesting those welfare programs? Lirishae posted... Ilhan Omar responded by stating that our country should be more fearful of white men (than Muslims), because white men have caused more deaths in this country than Muslims have. That statistic is entirely correct. It's entirely misleading and purposefully deceptive. First, because white men can be Muslims -- Islam is a religion, not a race (in fact, according to a 2017 study by the Institute for Social Policy, in the US 24% of Muslims are white; the Boston Bombers, who are of Chechan descent, would probably fall into that category). Second, and more importantly, because whites vastly outnumber Muslims -- Muslims only make up 1% of the population today and even less historically. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 1:52:41 PM #10 | Mead posted... Zeuss 200th alt because he cant figure out how to stop being objectively offensive posted. . . Complaining that a politician used a racial slur and the made a highly offensive racist joke is objectively offensive? Funny, nobody else seemed to get in trouble for making that same criticism... unless you're defending Reagan's comments? Mead posted... If by tax break you mean billions of dollars worth of them not paying their fair share then yes corporate welfare, why the fuck do you even post Overlooking that "fair share" is ridiculous propaganda, somebody paying less into the system isn't as bad as people TAKING OUT FROM the system. If those companies left the country tomorrow, the US would lose a lot of tax revenue. If welfare recipients found a better deal in Canada or Sweden and left for one of those nations, then the US wouldn't be spending as much. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | I signed up to volunteer for Bernie Sanders' campaign |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 1:18:52 PM #30 | Jen0125 posted... I believe in voting for who you feel best represents you. That's kinda the point of democracy. I stick to voting for the lesser of two evils. ForteEXE3850 posted... The Democratic Party would never let Bernie win. His other beliefs aside, like Trump, he's far too anti-politician for their liking. While the DNC wouldn't be able to stop him if it wanted, Democrats as a whole should hate Bernie because he cares only for himself and doesn't give a shit about the party. Even if Sanders wasn't a complete idiot, it would be hard to justify voting for a guy who joins your party just so he doesn't have to run for president unaffiliated TWICE. Bernie is much, much worse than Hillary in terms of being out for himself and a political operator. Mead posted... Does the DNC still have those stupid super delegates? ...there's nothing stupid about the concept of super delegates, other than perhaps the fact that they're supposed to pledge themselves to the winner at which point their entire existence becomes a little redundant. Mead posted... cause yeah Bernie would be a great choice but if the system is like last time theyll vote against him in favor of Biden or whatever other corporate candidate they think will win Bernie is a lousy candidate who makes Biden and others look more appealing. Even Marianne Williamson starts to look less crazy. Mead posted... if they had listened to voters Bernie would have been on the ballot in 2016 and Trump would not be in office  Bernie Sanders might be a darling of the far-left, but that doesn't track with the general public. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | PotdMon: Nerd/Geek |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 1:10:26 PM #494 | ParanoidObsessive posted... I couldn't be bothered to watch any of AHS after the first season. I found the pay-off to be kind of underwhelming, and I really disliked the "every season is totally different and unconnected but we're mostly keeping the same cast" idea. It just discouraged me from bothering to put the effort in for another season. AHS s1 was crap (although I liked the setting). Asylum, Coven, and even Freak Show were a lot better. Otherwise I'll mention that I had been skeptical of the self-contained seasons, but they work out really well. Generally speaking, a *lot* of stories are best told in a season of tv rather than a film, but it's hard to pitch doing a one-season show. Cast-wise, they only really keep a few key actors. Looking at the list, only three actors have been there for the show's entire run. And, in fact, part of the reason why Hotel is so lousy could be because Jessica Lange -- who played a supporting role in s1/Murder House before getting a more prominent role in later seasons -- was no longer with the show. Also they're not entirely unconnected. There's one season that connects the events of the other seasons, plus there are characters shared between seasons. The biggest example I've seen so far is Otherwise I will say that Slasher -- which I don't recommend at all (although I haven't seen s3) -- claims to use the same concept but they replace much more of the cast. Granted, Slasher doesn't seem to be produced on as consistent of a basis which is probably part of it. ParanoidObsessive posted... As for Miss Fisher, my mother actually watches that show a lot (and I think she's got at least a few seasons on DVD). She's hugely into watching mysteries (in the classical British detective sort of mold, including stuff like Murder She Wrote, not so much modern procedurals like CSI - though she did used to watch NCIS with my father when he was still alive). Speaking of, Murder She Wrote was another thing I enjoyed binging while on my detective kick years ago, but when I tried watching it after a break, the episodes felt a little disjointed. They were still watchable, though, whereas I had trouble getting through Miss Fisher. ParanoidObsessive posted... PBS has always been a huge thing for my family. Back when I was younger I used to use it to watch a lot of British sci-fi and British comedy, and my mother watches a lot of British mysteries on it. I think PBS might have been what got me started on my detective kick. I was flipping through channels and caught an episode of Poirot starring David Suchet ("Cat Among the Pigeons"). ITV's Poirot and Marple were by far my favorite detective shows at the time; I also liked the BBC's Miss Marple. Come to think of it, I'm not sure whether I preferred Marple or Miss Marple. Either way, they *might* have preceded me watching Murder, She Wrote at the time because Angela Lansbury had played Miss Marple and JB Fletcher had numerous Marple overtones. Although I decried it at the time, I have somewhat mixed feelings about the Murder, She Wrote remake not going through; granted, the actress they had picked (Octavia Spencer) was waaaaay too young for the role. Lansbury was 59 when she was cast as JB Fletcher and the stories worked because she an unassuming, grandmotherly-like character. Spencer was only 40 and looked like she was in her 30s, which would given things a very different vibe. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | Corporate welfare or welfare for the poor |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 12:37:13 PM #5 | "Corporate welfare" usually isn't even a thing. Other than bailouts, literally all it is most of the time is just a tax break. Compare that to welfare plans where not only do the participants not pay taxes, but they also get money from the government. Mead posted... I wouldnt say either upsets me The US auto industry sure did, otherwise it could have gone under and taken countless jobs with it which would have created a lot of new poor people. --- (\/)(\/)|-| There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
| Topic | I signed up to volunteer for Bernie Sanders' campaign |
| MarvelousCaptn 08/01/19 12:34:09 PM #27 | Blighboy posted... I'd rather be right than nice Remember when Bligh was right or nice? --- Storm Grodd There has never been a Vox link worth clicking and there never will be. |
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