Lurker > Nanahara715

SeabassDebeste posted...

someone who commits war crimes may commit more war crimes, but it's disingenuous to say that all those crimes are the same

that's like saying that since jon executed olly, he has demonstrated the capacity to kill kids, and using that as justification for him slaughtering hordes of kids in king's landing

he's half targaryen after all

Jon showed remorse for executing Olly (who presumably received some sort of trial, given that they make a huge deal about the people Dany executes not receiving a trial).

Dany shows no remorse for executing ________.

Completely different characterization

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

ShatteredElysium posted...

Although Tyrell/Lannister could have worked if not for Cersei and if high sparrow was kept in check

Depends on if you count purging the lords of 4/7 kingdoms as working. Also completely destabilizing the Riverlands and the North as well. Tywin/Lannisters made a LOT of enemies.

Obviously things would be way better if Bobby B was on the throne but we can't have nice things. and you still end up with Dany/Dorne/Highgarden? against everyone else.

Nah, if Bobby B lived, Dorne chills with them because Joffrey never ascends and is forced to marry Sansa, so Margaery doesn't marry Joffrey so he never gets poisoned, so Tyrion is never accused of murder and Oberyn doesn't die in trial by combat so Ellaria never seeks revenge and doesn't poison Myrcella who then marries Trystane and solidifies the Dorne/Baratheon alliance. With Bobby B, Stannis doesn't assert a claim and kill Renly, who remains with Margaery, and thus has Highgarden as an ally as well.

ShatteredElysium posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

ShatteredElysium posted...

I mean Daenerys has now committed more war crimes than anyone else in the show. Prior to this season the only person who had committed more was Ramsey.

Did he?

Torturing Theon (Non-combatant POW)
Killing Rickon (Non-combatant POW)

Dany-
Executing Randyl and Dickon Tarly (let's count as 1)
I think crucifying the masters is probably also a warcrime
Forcing the Lannister army to kneel or be executed

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6902801/War-crimes-identified-Game-Thrones.html

Yes its daily mail but there was multiple sites with same article. That just had the nicer breakdown

Is Jon's "4x uses of child soldiers" just Olly four times, or is Grenn et al not passed the age of majority when Jon has them hold the gate?

Anagram posted...

You can't cite things like the Geneva Conventions in a medieval setting that exists well before such modern diplomatic inventions. As for your other points,
- Dany considers herself to the be the rightful queen, which makes her not an invader, which makes Cersei a rebel, which makes the soldiers serving her rebels, which makes their commanders valid targets for execution if she so chooses to pursue that road. It was a stupid decision, but not a war crime.
- The Khals all oversaw mass scale rapes, murders, and pillaging. If anyone counts as war criminals, it's them. They also brought Dany there against her will and announced that she'd be confined there forever.
- Mirri Maz Durr effectively murdered Khal Drogo, and as the Khaleesi, Dany became the one with authority to punish her. I don't think the Dothraki have a concept of trials, and even if they did, Mirri Maz Durr admitted it anyway.
- When was it stated that some of the Masters were innocent? They all at least did nothing about hanging women on road posts.
- Mossador she killed because there was no other way to resolve the issue that would clearly punish someone for murder and disobeying an order.
- She reopened the fighting pits after the city begged her to and on the advice of her advisers, which you said she sohuld take more often.
- The Khals suck and their culture just makes everyone else more miserable. They'd effectively declared permanent war on everyone in Essos and openly declared that they'd keep Dany there forever.

All of Dany's actions up to that point made sense and were for the greater good of making ordinary peoples' lives more tolerable while advancing her own agenda. And I'm not even a Dany fan, I always found her sections of the show to be the worst.

I mean, I can in the context of what we as people should or shouldn't find moral. "No, what Dany did aren't technically war crimes because that society doesn't have war crimes." Doesn't mean that contextually she's been given a pass for doing shitty stuff only because it's been to shitty people. Serial Killers don't start out killing innocent people, they typically start small by killing animals.

"- Dany considers herself to the be the rightful queen, which makes her not an invader, which makes Cersei a rebel, which makes the soldiers serving her rebels, which makes their commanders valid targets for execution if she so chooses to pursue that road. It was a stupid decision, but not a war crime."

She can consider it all she wants, but she wasn't and she's not, by any count. If I go into the wrong house because I made a mistake and thought it was my house, the existing homeowner can still shoot me as an intruder (castle doctrine).

Under modern definition, you can't execute POWs and we've decided as a society that such an act is immoral.

"- When was it stated that some of the Masters were innocent? They all at least did nothing about hanging women on road posts."

There was literally an entire thing where the dudes dad opposed slavery and crucifying the slaves and Dany crucified the dude's dad anyways.

"- Mossador she killed because there was no other way to resolve the issue that would clearly punish someone for murder and disobeying an order."

Punish him after a trial, which was what Selmy advocated for and she ignored him.

"- She reopened the fighting pits after the city begged her to and on the advice of her advisers, which you said she sohuld take more often."

I definitely didn't list Hizdahr as an advisor, and she literally allowed slaves to be used to fight in the pits.

ShatteredElysium posted...

I mean Daenerys has now committed more war crimes than anyone else in the show. Prior to this season the only person who had committed more was Ramsey.

Did he?

Torturing Theon (Non-combatant POW)
Killing Rickon (Non-combatant POW)

Dany-
Executing Randyl and Dickon Tarly (let's count as 1)
I think crucifying the masters is probably also a warcrime
Forcing the Lannister army to kneel or be executed

I literally can't get over the fact that Dany had previously committed multiple [what are clearly defined warcrimes under current international law] that people just ignored because they were perpetrated against individuals that they disagreed with or didn't like.

Like, roasting the Tarly's is the best example.

You can't just execute non-combatant POWs
You can't force POWs to become combatants in your army.

This is all in the Geneva Convention, which should stand for a set of values that people in our society uphold, but so many people [in our society] are willing to pardon Dany because "The Tarlys sucked."

"She killed them because they didn't bend the knee;" Bend the knee to a foreign invader with no right to the throne? It's literally just POW execution, Tyrion advises her not to do it, and it's the impetus for Sam to push on Jon to take his claim. Maybe if she'd listened to her advisor[s] who pleaded with her to take a nonviolent path.

Like, she went into that meeting with the Khals expecting to murder them and take the horde. Yeah, they got raunchy and it could be argued that it "became self-defense", but that obscures that it was her plan all along because Daario and Jorah barricade the door. It was an assassination plot that is obscured because they decided to rape/kill her.

She literally has Mossador executed without a fair trial, despite Selmy's advise.

Let's not pretend that "her advisors were dead so no one could reign her in", there's plenty of evidence of her executing people against the [sound] advise of Tyrion/Selmy. She just didn't listen.

If someone commits a warcrime, they'll commit more warcrimes.

First she came for Mirri Maz Durr, and we did not speak out because she killed the Khal and probably deserved it.

Then she came for the Masters and crucified 100 of them even though some were innocent and didn't own slaves and we did not speak out because most of them were bad and we don't like slaveowners.

Then she came for Mossador without a trial and we did not speak out because he had disobeyed the Queen and it was tit-for-tat.

The she reopened the fighting pits and we did not speak out because "it's tradition and she banned slaves from participating" even though we immediately see slaves participating again and Dany turning a blind eye.

Then she burned the Khals in a premeditated coup and we did not speak out because they were threatening to rape her making us not care that she was going to murder them anyways.

Then she executed those two masters who had surrendered and we did not speak out because they had owned slaves and rebelled and tried to have that third guy executed instead and it was ironic.

Then she executed multiple POWs because they wouldn't agree to betray their country and fight for a foreign invader with no claim to the throne and we did not speak out because they were not nice people and had already betrayed Olenna Tyrell.

Then she burned King's Landing and we were shocked Pikachu.

Nrrr posted...

Dany only even becomes a "mad queen" if someone DOES kill her. If she wins, and rules, history recalls these events as heroic and perhaps brutal, but necessary and just.

"But after we've won and there's no one left to oppose us and people are living peacefully in the world she built, do you really think they'll wring their hands over the way she built it?"

GranzonEx posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

And she didn't take the slave army for herself, she literally gave them the choice. That was the entire purpose of that scene. Breaker of chains. "You are free. Anyone who wishes to leave can do so with no punishment. But if you stand with me, you can serve me as free men."

empty words and empty offer, the slaves only knew one way of life: obey

remember the slaves begging to go back into slavery because she fucked up their culture/tradition/economy?

Literally reopened the fighting pits "but with no slaves"

[immediately we see slaves being forced to participate anyways]

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Also that makes sense i didnt get it yet nanna didnt make this post yet maybe im just excited for mafia

Signups going til Wednesday my dudes

XIII_rocks posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

People had so many theories and so many different ways they wanted it all to end that those who didn't see/get their way are upset and will hate-Watch the show and give it bad reviews.

Also this.

GoT's writing is not watertight by any means, but I've never seen so very many people conflate "something I didn't want or expect to happen" with "bad writing". I'd say the actual flaws the show has (the general rushed nature, for instance) are causing it.

At this point, it's super obvious that the last episode will be the lowest rated episode of the series while simultaneously being the most watched.

Nanis23 posted...

Super low IMDB rating (7.4) this early
Yeah, people are PISSED about something

People were always going to be pissed.

People had so many theories and so many different ways they wanted it all to end that those who didn't see/get their way are upset and will hate-Watch the show and give it bad reviews.

redrocket posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

Step further: Arya died multiple times but is the Chosen Warrior of the Lord of Light and she was revived multiple times for [reasons we may learn in the Finale].

Another step further: Arya is the Lord of Light. The PTSD from this episode will shock her into remembering her identity. For the finale she will assume her true form and being some divine justice to Dany.

Melisandre told Varys he would die in Westeros; the NK is dead, so why is the Lord of Light [/and Melisandre's predictions] concerned with someone else's death post-NK, unless R'hllor's goals didn't end at the defeat of the NK.

Mewtwo59 posted...

xp1337 posted...

User728 posted...

Living named characters:

1. Jon
2. Sansa
3. Arya
4. Bran
5. Dany
6. Greyworm
7. Brienne
8. Tormund
9. Tyrion
10. Podrick
11. Davos
12. Yara
13. Sam
14. Gilles
15. Little Sam
16. Bronn
17. Daario
18. Robin
19. Gendry
20. Meera

21. Hot Pie

I think Edmure is still alive somewhere out there too.

Not only is Edmure alive, he [and Robyn] must an appearance in the Finale as their actors are credited in this season.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Also can you really go from cersei being a ruthless, cold-hearted, confident boss bitch in the PREVIOUS EPISODE to her being a scared, sympathetic, overpowered tragic figure in the very next one? What the absolute fuck were they thinking?

I mean, a lot changes when you think you have the upper hand to all of a sudden getting your ass kicked.

I've seen some images on the horse that Arya rode, and there was a scene right after Drogon was roasting the Golden Company where the camera panned to a dead horse behind flames, and it looks like it's the same horse.

Theory that R'hllor brought the horse back so that it could carry Arya out.

Step further: Arya died multiple times but is the Chosen Warrior of the Lord of Light and she was revived multiple times for [reasons we may learn in the Finale].

I was like 90% positive that Arya had died and the horse was a metaphor for her riding to the afterlife.

Whoops.

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We're in the end game now.

My plan:

Signups through next Wednesday 5/15. Gets everyone a full two weeks to see the movie.

Game start probably Saturday 5/18 evening EST (10:00 PM is typical for my games); I'm choosing Saturday because I don't want Day 1 end to coincide with the Game of Thrones series finale (as I will be hosting a party and unavailable for day end)

Days will be 48 hours.

Will likely use Discord for the "scum board." Open to suggestions here.

Potentially will want a single cohost.

I will balance/generate a game based on the number of willing participants/alternates/replacements gathered.

Any questions- feel free to ask now.

Signups:
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I don't understand why the show title was "The Last of the Starks."

It's not like any of them died. It's also not like any of them were really that critical to the story this week.

Like, arguably Jon is "no longer a Stark"?

bryans7 posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

What video game film had the highest budget?

Prince of Persia?

Yes

swordz9 posted...

Underleveled posted...

What's the highest-scoring video game film before this? Prince of Persia?

Rampage got a 52%. Not sure if theres anything higher than that

It's Rampage.

Was at trivia on Wednesday night, and the three questions were:

How many non-animated Resident Evil films are there?

What's the highest rated video game film based on Rotten Tomatoes? (Rampage was the correct answer)

What video game film had the highest budget?