Lurker > scarletspeed7

I'm probably passing on everything for this month. I'm in the middle of an Assassin's Creed series full playthrough.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Probably IBM
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I like how he/she didn't answer the question of who they are. Clearly an alt of MWC.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

NFUN posted...

who are you

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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#33 - CM Punk Nominated by: ZeroSignal




How ya doin', MWC?

Punk, the most successful student of creative complaining, is best known for his undefeated record of 1-0 in the Judicial Squared Circuit. He's also well-remembered for his miserable 0-2 record in Shoot Hell in a Cell matches. But I think I best know him for being the guy that didn't beat Bobby Lashley at December to Disregard. Punk is a tough guy to rank because his personal life biases can easily outweigh his in-ring talent or mic work. Hell, the fact that he married AJ Lee makes him one of those heels for life (kind of like the husband of Trish Stratus who was booed out of the building at her Hall of Fame induction just for marrying her). But Punk has a body of work that demonstrates both in-ring excellence as well as amazing promo work. Cena and Punk will be forever remembered as the best feud of an entire era of WWE wrestling, and that's impressive (despite a lack of competition).

Now, whether you hate the guy for leaving or you hate the guy for complaining or you hate the guy for supporting Pepsi against vastly superior Coke products, there are certainly a lot of reasons to dislike Punk. And he's certainly an arrogant sunovabitch by a lot of accounts. I won't deny that. But at the same time, having allowed time to pass since his WWE departure and learning about his state of mind at the Amann trial, I've developed some sympathy for Punk. He was just utterly, completely miserable by the end of his run. And sometimes people just aren't a good fit for the WWE system. I don't think we'll ever know what a healthy company for Punk would look like once he outgrew the Ring of Honor paychecks. And there's nothing wrong with that. Wrestling is a business and if you have no passion for your career (and you can afford it), you should look for a different line of ring.

At least we'll always have Punk rolling his wrists around as a warm-up on the WWE Network.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

The Dark Knight
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I'm waiting for Voltch and NBIceman to hate me.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#34 - Kazuchika Okada Nominated by: CybrMonkey




Kazuchika, the Rainmaker, was a crucial focal point in this golden age of Japanese wrestling. His starpower only continues to grow after his historic two-year reign as champion in New Japan, where he had the greatest string of title defenses in the history of wrestling. Period. End of discussion. If someone ever asks me who the greatest champion in the entire business was, I would likely answer Okada. There are very few men who can claim to be the single best wrestler ever, and Okada is in that elite, short list.

So then, the question is, why did I rank him #34?

The answer is that, subjectively, I've never found a particular reason to really get behind Okada. Unlike the guys ahead of Okada on this list who are not as proficient at wrestling as Okada, I can't root for Okada in the same way as them. That's because I don't believe the character presented by Okada is as compelling as others on this list. Okada is, in essence, Batman. Batman is objectively the greatest superhero in comic book history, but I'd much rather read about Animal Man, Booster Gold, and John Constantine. Those are characters which really resonate with me. Okada is the best possible version of the generic create-a-wrestler. That's because he really isn't a generic create-a-wrestler. But if you pushed me to describe his character, I would have a very difficult time doing so. It's not a character with much flavor. And when we reach this super-upper echelon of elites, I'm going to demand character and wrestling working hand-in-hand.

Compare for a moment the Rock and Okada. I'm using the Rock as an example here because he was not nominated. Okada is about ten times the wrestler the Rock ever was, and let's be honest, the Rock was definitely a good worker. What Okada lacks is that star quality the Rock has. Dwayne is bursting at the seams with character, creating memorable moments constantly. His ringwork has the benefit of this force of character behind it, so that makes me more invested in the character. Okada's character, conversely, is boosted by amazing ringwork. However, the most memorable moments in wrestling for me are hybrids of great promos and great ringwork. Austin and Hart is the quintessential match and angle. I'd argue Okada is better than both of them in the ring. But they still come out on top of Okada because they are in the upper echelons of both promos and ringwork.

Okada fans shouldn't take this as disrespect to the work of a phenomenal talent, but insight into my worldview on wrestling.

Next up... I think the people who comment here will think this guy should be lower, but general fans will think he should be higher.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Lopen posted...

Hell yeah Hurricane

His feud with Rock is one of my all time favorites. I really think mixed card feuds are way underused in wrestling. You obviously wouldn't put them on PPVs too often, but to fill out stuff between PPVs before? Why not? Doesn't run the featured match on the PPV into the ground and gets the midcarder over as mattering.

I've always agreed with this point of view. If a guy like the Rock can take a loss from the Hurricane the week before Wrestlemania and still come out as the hugest of draws, I don't see how this hurts anyone who is a legitimate superstar.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I wonder what Tommy Lee Jones would say about this.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

The next ranking will be another one mired in controversy. Perhaps even more than D-Bry.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#35 - Hurricane Nominated by: Johnbobb




Call it Vintage Scarlet, but I have massive love for the greatest of superhero wrestlers. If I have to defend my position, I will simply point to the greatest mini feud in the history of wrestling - the Rock vs. the Hurricane. In a three week build leading up to the night before Wrestlemania, the Rock and Hurricane laid down some of the most memorable promos of the early 2000s. It all led up to the Hurricane getting a surprise victory over the Rock and really putting him over for the fans of that era. The Hurricane actually was able to go toe-to-toe on the mic with the Rock and not only hold his own, but make his character feel like it mattered, and that has always left a huge impression on me.

The concept of The Hurricane as a character will always be my #1 spot of most underrated gimmicks in wrestling history. Gregory Helms really had a love for the old school comic book archetype he portrayed, and he had a great attention to detail. There also was a ton of variety in what he presented; I think he could've gotten much more out of the gimmick if it was pushed as a more main event-caliber character. Helms embodied the delusion of his character to such an extent that it came full circle and became just as believable as every other bizarre weirdo on the roster. Moreso, even. You wanted to believe a man could fly. And where else would you put a flyer than in the cruiserweight mix? It was a great choice.

Helms is from the Hardy school of wrestling thought and apparently had a big part in creating the Broken Universe. Of course, who could forget how he buried young talent as well as the man of Three H's? All of that after the return of the greatest boy band in wrestling history, Three Count. Another of Helms' great underrated gimmicks, Three Count drew fantastic heel heat and would have been much more at home in a company starring a fat dude dancing in sunglasses with two skinny rednecks. It was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Ultimately, though, this is a ranking purely based on my utter subjective love of comics being well-represented by a very talented worker. I know I'll get comics like, "Why is he above Glacier herp a derp this is a subjective list me no understand." That's okay. This isn't even the most egregious ranking that we'll get to yet.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Tom Bombadil posted...

swap Evans out for Puma, add Chavo to the bit about Mundo, and you have more or less my opinion

Chavo's amigo is actually the individual getting over in the Chavo act.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Wow no love for the baddest bitch in the building?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#36 - Pentagon Nominated by: Charon



Pentagon Jr. the Dark El 0M is easily my favorite guy on the indie scene right now. His look his striking and memorable; his moveset helps create his character as well as dazzle an audience, and his character work is fucking perfection. Everything comes together in union to create an incredible packaged presentation. Is it any wonder that Pentagon is working as a main eventer in Impact, Lucha Underground, PWG and everywhere else on the circuit?

I think one of the most amazing facts about Pentagon is this: This year, he, La Parka, and Fenix are all working the biggest shows of the year in both CMLL and AAA. That would be like working both Wrestlemania and Starrcade during the Monday Night Wars. It's unheard of. Pentagon is such a hot property right now, such a beloved worker amongst other workers, that two bitter rival companies both are willing to forego exclusive rights to a worker. Everyone wants Pentagon, and it's for good reason. He unites the brutality and the darkness that a lot of fans love with a more athletic temperament than a Taker. And that makes him intensely, intensely watchable.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I think that, in that era, there was more of a premium placed on gimmicks that had an air of legitimacy than now. I think a company like NJPW would try to make a gimmick like that look realistic these days, and there are signs that Triple H likes having a ton of credible-looking guys in NXT, but WWE itself doesn't understand what makes gimmicks like that tick anymore.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Lopen posted...

Eddv posted...

Mr. Perfect has to be just the worst fucking gimmick because you can NEVER fuck up and that has to be really stressful.

He's a heel

The Perfect gimmick was that he was still virtually perfect in the ring from a technical standpoint, however.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Yeah, there's like 5 guys in the world who ever have wrestled well enough to be able to pull off the gimmick, and even they all make mistakes once and a while!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#37 - Mister Perfect Nominated by: Lopen



One of the greatest compliments you can say of any performer is that their work is timeless. This is especially the case in a trade as evolving, and at times fickle, as pro wrestling. Curt Hennig, at his best, was timeless a great worker in an era of great workers.

Hennig understood the makings of a heel. He knew his job was to make whoever he was paired with look great, and he knew sometimes that meant making himself look silly. He knew when to sell, when to back off, when to cower Hennig just got it. Seeing Mr. Perfects name on the card was a guarantee of quality.

While Perfect could bump like a boss and carry inferior opponents to matches few felt they were capable of, it was only when he wrestled guys like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart that you truly saw the best of him. That was the type of level he was at and it was a level only a select few could match. While injury issues cost him ring time, he transitioned seamlessly between roles of wrestler, manager and commentator his performance in each case; always perfect. During his entire stint with WWE, he could do no wrong.

And you know what? "Rap is Crap" was also pretty freaking amusing.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

profDEADPOOL posted...

Daisy is Skye's real name in the comics, they did a fake one so you couldn't figure out who she's based on... But yeah it should have just been Skye being her actual first name.

They could've done the Comics-First-Name-Is-The-Movie-Middle-Name gimmick!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Good point. I think we'll need to have a God-Off on Board 8 to determine which God is really the best one. A full 64-man/woman bracket.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

foolm0r0n posted...

Vlado posted...

Of some god who is not one with Christ and the Holy Ghost, i.e. not God.

Ok it is actually the same God as Judaism, just not the weak ass Christian God

Is it the same God as the one Neil Gaiman played on Lucifer? Because that God is pretty dope. Although hot take: I'm not big on the Morgan Freeman God.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

It's just one interpretation of a deeper gimmick with different ways in which you can read it.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#38 - KUSHIDA Nominated by: Girugamesh



KUSHIDA is the greatest villain in all of wrestling. Traveling from the distant future, KUSHIDA is well-aware of the multitude of devastating tragedies in wrestling history, and yet he uses his chronological prowess to wrestle as a midcard guy. It boggles my mind that someone could be gifted such a boon and use it for such pointless purposes. KUSHIDA could have prevented the deaths of the Benoits. He could have stopped the closure of WCW. He could have put a kibosh to the Old Day segment. Imagine that world! And yet here is KUSHIDA, a man who has the potential ability to save us from ourselves. Save_Us.KUSHIDA!

Is it any wonder that such a fantastic villain has been ranked so highly on my list? He's essentially the darkest timeline version of Booster Gold. KUSHIDA is a selfish, narcissistic prick. His belief that futuristic wrestling techniques would endear him to the legions of New Japan fans really blew up in his face. Look at Takahashi, who fought KUSHIDA time and time again, repelled by skills that hadn't even been invented yet. However, Takahashi demonstrated perseverance in the face of utterly overwhelming odds; he learned from each match, developing a style of wrestling light years ahead of where he should be thanks to the time-mangled machinations of our evil Rip Hunter-alike, KUSHIDA. And eventually, after months of failure, Takahashi was able to defeat the man with the impossible-to-beat technique. Suddenly, KUSHIDA's style had proliferated in a time period that wasn't even supposed to know these crazy high-flying, body-destroying tactics.

That Takahashi, a man from the present, could defeat KUSHIDA, an overlord from the future, says a lot about the adapative ability of the human species. Our quick wit and evolving mindfulness proves that through almost any adversity, we can triumph. And the wicked amongst our race throughout history, those who would attempt to take advantage of the less fortunate or the less advanced... they will eventually fall to those with willpower and perseverance.

Fuck you, KUSHIDA. You monster.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

If he beats Matt Hardy and Bray, do they clap for him afterwards?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

davidponte posted...

Scarlet, since you're here, I've been meaning to ask about the new Punisher #1 that's shipping in August. Some of the stuff I'm reading is either about to end or I'm going to drop (Hellblazer, Mister Miracle, Suicide Squad), so I'm looking to potentially pick up a new book or two.

I didn't read any of the Marvel Legacy Punisher (or any Punisher at all actually), and the solicitation for the new one seems like a continuation of that one. I know it's a #1 so it's likely a decent jumping on point, but is it something you'd recommend, or should I look to fill the void elsewhere?

I haven't read it yet, of course, but the Previews suggest you can jump in. I'm not really interested in it, but I'm not a Punisher guy. That said, I loved the Ennis series and the Punisher MAX series years later.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Gina has a Wonder Woman smile.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I actually picked Gina here. Really tough.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I went in completely blind, and I really, really was blown away.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Maybe I'm just in the minority but I walked away from JJ S1 thinking that it was "The Greatest Marvel Show Ever" (patent pending), and I walked away from JJ S2 thinking that it was like someone else wrote Jessica Jones and didn't get the show at all. But as long as it was enjoyed by someone, that's important.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

That's a really good question, Ermy. I'm torn between a couple, but this is probably the track I most fondly remember:


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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

davidponte posted...

Iron Fist stands out as disappointing because of the quality of the other Marvel Netflix stuff.

You know, I think this was true upon its release, but after Defenders, Jessica Jones S2 and Luke Cage S2, I think it's actually just the new standard.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I'd like to thank Scarlet for exposing me to Bendis's run of Daredevil. Really helped me to see how good a character he could be (speaking of which, Scar, drop me some of Bendis's DC work).

I'm glad you enjoyed the Bendis DD run. It really is a great choice to watch in conjunction with the first season of the show!

Bendis is currently wrapping up a Man of Steel mini-series and I would recommend it. It's pretty much his first DC project. Action Comics #1000 and this mini-series lead into his Action Comics/Superman run.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Corrik: Scarletspeed7 who is faster? Superman or the Flash?

Also Corrik: I actually don't want Scarletspeed7 to answer this question in the way my linked article does.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Corrik posted...

Jesus, scarlet is being a dick today for no reason. And I read your comic you linked ya doofus. I was making a joke that Barry Allen is better. Okay. Sorry to bother you today!

Corrik posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Also, slightly related, one of the greatest Flash being fast moments of all time:
https://comicnewbies.com/2016/07/26/the-flash-vs-zum/

Wally West not Barry Allen. Can't care.

"Scarlet is being a dick today if you ignore this post which doesn't read like a joke nor have any hallmark that I mean to be humorous because I actually wasn't and I'm now trying to step back my remark without just saying, 'Hey, didn't mean to step on toes or be a dick' since I'm too proud to admit that sort of line-crossing standoffish behavior alienates others."
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

GranzonEx posted...

Burter from the Ginyu force is faster than every speedster in DC comics

right MWC?

Isn't that localized chronokinesis though? That's more of a Zoom thing than a Flash thing.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Also, in the way only Corrik can, I share with him a moment I really enjoy of Flash history just because he was talking about the Flash. And Corrik, instead of reading it or saying something about the content, or even noticing that Wally is offering up his own reverent thoughts on Barry and saying, "You know, that's sweet and very honorable," decides to rudely dismiss me sharing something out of the goodness of my heart. It was an opportunity to strengthen the bond of two Board 8ers, and it was clearly a community-building moment. Yet Corrik chose to be terse and curt, clearly making a conscious decision to divide rather than create.

And\\Corrik posted...

I don't read comics dude... Or at least don't remember from any comics I read as a young kid.

Then don't bring up an article to me and then when I comment on it, immediately switch mediums in an effort to remain superior. We're not playing that game today.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Corrik posted...

Hal Jordan
Barry Allen

Master Heroes

What's your favorite comic book story featuring either one? xD
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Well if you want to talk Barry:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-69e585991f4acc12c56f60aac3ec2f5e

And being dismissive of Wally West is a poor choice since his sales increased over Barry Allen's sales and he served as Flash for the longest consecutive amount of time in comic history.

Also, you come into my house on the day my daughter is to be married, and you ask me to talk about movies versions of comic characters.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

There have been 5 Superman-Flashes races.

They tied in 2 (both Silver Age), and Flashes won in 3. Jay Garrick even beat Superman and he was an 80-year-old Flash.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Corrik posted...

Bullshit. Superman made flash his punk in justice league.

Are you legit talking to me about a cartoon right now?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Also, slightly related, one of the greatest Flash being fast moments of all time:
https://comicnewbies.com/2016/07/26/the-flash-vs-zum/
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Yeah saw that. This was answered years ago the same way.

Also I read all of the comics for a week a day before they are released so it's tough to spoil me
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

A bad one is Billy Bob Thornton's.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

No!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I really can't think of anything to say about Finn weirdly. He's a great wrestler, a unique promo, and I just really like him in general. There's just nothing to say that I think is worth anyone's time, however.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#39 - Finn Balor Nominated by: Voltch



When Eddie Brock's Venom symbiote soon returned to be bonded again, allowing Venom to escape prison, the symbiote unknowingly left its offspring in the cell; due to its alien mindset, the symbiote felt no emotional attachment to its offspring, regarding it as insignificant, and thus never communicated its existence to Brock via their telepathic link. The new symbiote then bonded with Brocks cellmate Cletus Kasady, transforming him into Carnage. The bond between the Carnage symbiote and Kasady was stronger than the bond between Brock and the Venom symbiote. As a result, Carnage is far more violent, powerful, and deadly than Venom. He escaped prison and began a series of murders, and at the scene of each crime, wrote "Carnage" on the walls with his own blood. He was found by Spider-Man, though the hero proved to be no match for Carnage's powers. In desperation, Spider-Man made a truce with Venom to fight Carnage. The Carnage symbiote was defeated and apparently destroyed with sonic weaponry, but unbeknownst to them the symbiotes deeper equilibrium with its host helped to save it. After entering Kasadys body through a small cut, it bonded to his blood (which caused its red coloration).

On a serious note, I'm a fan of the smiling Finn Balor. I don't have a ton to say except that I love leather jackets and I love his moveset. Also I'm not a huge fan of "Fuck Fuck Me Finn" signs.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

That's not true at all. You can be a Star Wars fan and still be in a vacuum, separated from other Star Wars fans. You can have none of the traits you're complaining about and still consider a part of your core identity.

I know lots of gamers that log tons of hours every month playing and really couldn't tell you much if anything about gamergate.

*I* don't even know that much about GamerGate.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Even if it's dead, it still became the standard bearer for everything that centralized society hated about fringe nerd culture. It dug a grave for virtually everything else.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

How is the worst fanbase not MLP?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer