Lurker > Dels

(again, this is why I'm mad at chris about my "lack of effort". there was clearly NO ONE coming in to replace zam if not for me. so. like. yeah. i'm better than an empty slot)

shad could be replaced and then some newbie would come in and have no clue what to do and i really doubt they could get themselves out of the PoE.

but also, its clear there's no one coming to replace. blade asked for one days ago and we never got a thing.

htaeD posted...

I feel like if Mzero was a scum usurper with a jack just as his flavorname he'd be bussed to death right away. Mzero must have had jack abilities, or else thats a pretty shitty disguise.

huh?

Jack was his role. Idk what his flavour name was shown as to the scumteam? i dunno i would just never use a usurper because its lame. hell I'm surprised blade did

hell its still possible that "Mafia Usurper" WAS his flavour name and that he actually was a jack. Maybe he wasn't a usurper at all.

but host meta is bad so whatever.

htaeD posted...

Ashethan posted...

I think when there's a usurper, the scum team doesn't get each other's roles. At least that's how it was in FFT Mafia. It might've changed since then. Though we did get each others' flavor.

(Also our Usurper had abilities--so Usurpers can be multiple roles)

Corrik can best tell us.
He was on a scumteam with a usurper once I believe.

Sounds like a memory he does not particularly want to recall. =P

the flip confused me at first

because like

the format is

"Flavour Character, ALLIGNMENT Role"

so Mafia Usurper was his flavour, not his role.

But I assume "SCUM Jack...?" means that the rest of the team did think he was a jack, but he... probably was a usurper.

that's fair. you should do that.

Ashethan posted...

htaeD posted...

Did Mzero claim he still was power, when he said he'd lied? I need to check.

Yes. He said that he lied and that he had 2 watches and 2 tracks instead of being an every other night tracker. Then he said he tracked Dowolf night 1, Watched Dowolf night 4, and watched Zach night 3. ...then he said he also watched Chris night 2, copying Corrik's claim. Which would give him one too many watches, at which point I stopped buying him. (Yes, it did take that to get me off that, because he caught scum and to me it made no sense as to why he'd bus a buddy like that.)

oh yeah, you did do that.

again, this makes you towny i think. if you were scum with mzero you'd probably have already decided if you're gonna go for the bus or not (likely yes, you would) and you wouldn't be focused on those details, you'd just be like "nah i don't buy it"

htaeD posted...

And no I am still not seeing myself vote Shad.
But thats what the shad ISO is for.

man, that's weird to me

you do know that if i flip town, it'll be the entire game vs you?

wouldn't you rather lynch shad so that just in case he flips town and we realize "something is really wrong here", you have me alive to, like, keep working on finding scum, vs shad who... can't?

htaeD posted...

Yeah
I am looking at it now
Mzero didnt even post until Corrik claimed

Oh.

I had the order totally wrong in my mind then.

We'll never know if we'd have believed Mzero or not, without Corrik.

I'm gonna assume no, because "paranoid roleblocker"? But also, I think I even posted this at the start of that day: "If he's scum, why would he expect to live after his claimed scan was on a paranoid roleblocker? Surely he wouldn't do that."

I mean, he did do that.

Anyway, Corrik posting before mzero ever did makes it even more unlikely that Corrik is scum. He's technically still not totally clear though.

i think the one thing we can agree on, both town and scum, is that mzero's plan was bad.

it was bad.

htaeD posted...

Did Mzero claim he still was power, when he said he'd lied? I need to check.
I mean his second claim was worse, so to me it looked like Corriks track caused Mzero's plans, whatever they were, to fall to ruin.

i thought he claimed right away that he actually had...

oh no, he didn't!

he calimed the 2 tracks 2 watches AFTER corrik said it, right?

Ashethan posted...

He's not, but he's not around to vote. Though now that I think about it more, if Shad is town scum would just mislynch him.

if shad is town then i'm voting him so i could be that scum lol. idk if death will vote him tho. or anyone else. personally i think its clearly the correct play.

Did anyone think Mzero did this to save you? I thought that was only if Leo was town. Which he wasn't.

pretty sure it was still suggested yesterday? because remember, if mzero got lynched, leo would look good, and i'd look good too for voting mzero and defending leo.

but it was also just suggested the gambit could be to help a losing scumteam made up of people in the PoE or inactives.

Without Corrik, Mzero probably skates by an extra day or so. I mean I believed him even after Corrik's claim. Him targeting Dowolf made sense to me (he said he thought pxl was scum). Mzero probably doesn't claim haphazardly like that either without Corrik. He probably takes more time and makes it more convincing. Though him not being roleblocked would always stand out as weird.

hm. maybe. i'll be honest, the "paranoid roleblocker" thing sort of... i got it but it didn't fully register. my first thought wasn't "oh, mzero is scum", it was "well wait. what? huh?"

not sure i would've bought his explanation. was leaning towards no because his night action choice didn't make sense? which was... hmmm i'm not sure if it was because he watched dowolf, but i remember thinking he'd have been better off using a track if he had one left, not sure why. anyway. eh. also his claim was BEFORE corrik said anything, right? because of "paranoid roleblocker"? or was it after? i don't remember.

Corrik posted...

Pxl is not confirmed. She is just the most confirmed.

I don't see a scenario where Pxlated is scum, but it is important to note your flopping around and who you ignore in your flopping around.

You may have just tipped your hand to who the night kill is going to be.

dude, she's been considered locktown by everyone the whole game and she's even claimed a role

if she dies at night it won't be because of me. lol

I'm not flopping on anything, I still have the same exact scumteam prediction, I just mentioned the POSSIBILITY, the HYPOTHETICAL, of ashe or panthera being scum in an unexpected situation where my scumteam is wrong

and then i thought out loud about what the mzero thing means and if you're clear or not for it, without ever calling you scum anyway

don't try to paint me as some desperate scum trying to throw every name out there hoping that one sticks

Corrik posted...

Dels has now mentioned every single person name alive as possibility to be scum besides Pxlated.

Make sure you remember that. That is important.

fuck off

i have literally only said that the team is shad and death

and then i said "if its NOT shad and death, then i'd wanna to be alive to figure out if its ashe or panthera"

AND i started speculating about stuff and asked people if they agree or not that you technically aren't cleared

don't put me in a lose/lose situation

where if i say "it's shad/death, that's all i've got, bye" i am giving up

but when i then start trying to theorize about other outcomes, suddenly i'm grasping and naming new suspects or whatever?

or is your point that i ONLY didn't mention pxl?

that should mean NOTHING to you since you believe pxl is 100% locktown.

so what is your point?

this means that corrik COULD be scum?

because technically, since leo flipped paranoid roleblocker, mzero was always going to die.

so corrik turning on mzero wouldn't necessary be awful.

we can't give corrik full bus cred as if corrik caused mzero to be lynched. mzero DID admit to lying earlier.

but also mzero, as scum, would know that leo was gonna flip paranoid roleblocker so its still just completely ridiculous and i can't begin to imagine what he was thinking.

IF mzero wasn't usurper, we could assume that corrik, as scum, supported the plan, and it'd be stupid of him to bus mzero after it.

but he was, so maybe corrik never knew about the plan, then after it was done, was like "ok fuck this guy", especially since mzero was caught in a lie?

so I guess technically corrik isn't cleared. am I wrong here?

Oh wait.

So this actually proves that the mzero thing wasn't a desperate scum gambit.

I.e.

Mzero didn't do this to SAVE me

And he didn't do it because the team was me/shad or shad/+1 and he felt it was the only way to win with a crazy plan

He did it because of his role

So anyone thinking it being done to save me... is probably not correct.

OH

And anyone thinking that I'm scum and WANTED mzero lynched? to clear leo? That is also proved wrong, because mzero's flip would make leo look like scum. (assuming that, if i was scum, i'd realize mzero was a fucking usurper for doing that. maybe i wouldn't have?)

if i was scum and didn't realize he was usurper, then maybe I'd have wanted him dead since leo is a better ally. so idk. you decide.

Corrik posted...

Dels posted...

If Shad dies and flips town, I'll have to actually take all this back, spring to life, and try to figure out who the last scum is between Ashe and Panthera. But only if I know there's a chance I'd be listened to - which as of now, I still assume I wouldn't be - I'd be lynched before them every time.

Yeah, I don't get it. If Shad flips town, why would you not be going after Death?

Uh

Because if Shad flips town, its death + one more. So I'd go after death but also be trying to find the one more.

also, this is totally irrelevant but I'm not sure anyone has talked about it, but this reminded me

what the fuck was up with mzero and leo?

their plan was already clearly fucking weird

but now mzero flipped USURPER?

you guys know what this means, right?

it means:

mzero went after leo

if we lynched leo first, leo would flip "paranoid roleblocker", proving that mzero was lying and therefore scum - and so mzero would die

and if we lynched mzero first, he'd flip usurper, proving (most likely) that leo is scum

so that whole thing was always guaranteed to end in complete failure for mzero, every single time.

and uh. i guess leo WASN'T in on it, so maybe the "anger" you people detected was there after all, BUT the passion i detected was there because he really did believe he could win the argument, because his case was right!

Corrik posted...

Dels posted...

I can't believe you're reading the game and have to ask me who I think the scum are.

Well. I don't believe you're reading the game.

Then why do you not think I am scum?

dude

your claim got mzero lynched

i'm going to just assume you are town

Note, no perspective slip, the second-to-last paragraph is written from an objective and unbiased viewpoint. i.e. IF you lynch shad and he's town, then whichever of me and death is town, you want them alive to help catch the other scum.

if i get lynched and flip town i don't care if death is alive to "find the last scum" or whatever because it's still probably death and shad. but in case it isn't.

It's just sort of impossible for me to take a mafia game off my mind while I'm playing it.

So this game will stay on my mind if it keeps going, even if I have no new reads to make and no new cases to make, and I believe the future of this game is set as close to in stone as it can be.

So that's why I'd rather we just do it quickly.

I'm fine with voting Shad today since that's the correct play.

But also fine voting death, or being voted.

I guess my choice is...

##Vote: Shad

Because even though death is more interesting and helps my case more, this is the correct play, 100%.

Also, just in case someone does flip town today, you would much rather have me and death around to help find the last scum, as opposed to if you lynch me or death and we flip town, you have Shad still in the game and that means even less to find the other scum.

If Shad dies and flips town, I'll have to actually take all this back, spring to life, and try to figure out who the last scum is between Ashe and Panthera. But only if I know there's a chance I'd be listened to - which as of now, I still assume I wouldn't be - I'd be lynched before them every time.

Wow, I looked and it is literally in my first post today. "I think Shad and death are the scum"

I can't believe you're reading the game and have to ask me who I think the scum are.

Well. I don't believe you're reading the game.

Why would you even ask me that?

Shad and Death is what I've been saying for days.

I know nothing about Shad or what he claimed

I think it's totally possible scum could use a "paralyze", whatever it is, on themselves.

Doesn't mean they did, though.

This game has been going on for a long time and it has stagnated - no new reads are coming, as far as I can tell, nothing that will change things.

As scum, I could know that me and my PoE'd buddy are doomed (especially if its Shad. honestly, not if its death) and therefore not want to fight

But as town, I could also see exactly where the game is going and not want to fight

The towel is thrown but I'm outside the ring waiting to be interviewed. Like I said, AMA.

Oh.

You quoted that one line of context, that's why I got confused.

I actually don't know, then. I can look it up, but probably best if I give you my thoughts without that.

It's likely that I felt the way Han was interacting with Panthera was not w/w. It's not about the vote. Han could totally vote a scumbuddy. But if he did, I'd expect there to be more of a "debate". I initially thought you were scum with Han, because you two kept up a debate about things that totally didn't matter since Han was the obvious lynch, and it seemed pointless.

I think probably what I felt was that the way Han was fake-threatening Panthera wasn't a w/w interaction? Because it was too casual and not really enough to look like distancing to me....?

I probably didn't feel too strongly about it after the interaction was over - you can see that post is an example of how I was trying to sort of taunt Han and try to get some spew out of him. It's half playful, though still a real read of the situation of course.

If it helps you, you can quiz me about what any of my reads were at what time and why they changed. I'm town, so I can tell the truth and it should add up.

I don't think I had any opinion on Leo - he hadn't posted, right? First time I ever saw him post was when he came in and I immediately alligned with him. Before that, I was just sort of trusting Chris and assuming he was scum. But that's not enough for me to have made any statements of my own about him.

I can assure you that my read on Panthera had nothing to do with Han voting him.

Not sure I can help you there, Ashe, with the Panthera progression.

I vaguely recall that Panthera made some posts I liked right when I subbed in? I don't remember what they were. Panthera makes good posts, though, so, makes sense. But probably an hour later I changed my mind and acknowledged that while Panthera's posts were good, they were still fakeable?

Hey guys.

I know I said there should be a fight to the death between me and death.

And I also said we should lynch Shad first.

But I don't really have any interest in that anymore.

This game is already stale - there was nothing to talk about yesterday once the PoE got agreed on

A Shad lynch will do nothing. Me fighting death won't do anything - we already fought - I have nothing new to say to or about him.

I think people should just make their choice and vote. Or you can keep the day going if you want. Personally, I don't have anything else I want to do. Feel free to ask me any questions you would like, if you think it'll help you make your choice.

The alliance isn't scummy, it's just a mindset you don't understand. I don't mind dying for it - it will show the strength of it and prove that I am willing to die to help a friend. Leo will see (and already knows) that I put myself into the worst position of the game and ensured certain lynch for myself, just on the tiny chance that he was town and deserved an ally. I'm happy with that.

I also think Shad and death are scum and the game will be won after I am lynched. If they are not, that's fine, but I'm not really gonna get there on anyone else. Game is probably already over, unless it really is Panthera or Ashe and we radically shift our views and open things up.

Have fun everyone!

FLURRY OF STYX!

...apparently yes, to make 1 post about a night action...

Did Pxl ever come around?

look, "in the PoE and we could've theoreitcally fucked up"

is a lot better than "lockscum"

so i'll take it

Panthera posted...

I would be amused if the big plot twist is Dels and Death are both scum

(to be serious, let's not act like this whole "fight to the death...it's funny because his name is Death, get it?" business will definitively clear someone town. It's not at all impossible for both to be scum...it's theoretically possible for both to be town even, if we've fucked up the PoE process somewhere)

well if you lynch shad first and shad flips scum

then its a fight to the death

that was my reasoning

(IT'S NOT A SLIP, I DON'T KNOW SHAD IS SCUM)

if we do it first its a fight to the death sure but that doesn't mean the other is clear

oh geez.

i was again about to see if maybe a stop was needed

i thought the day started 11:30

but no

12:05

i didn't read the last few pages or so yet I'll catch up at some point tho

i have no clue.

i honestly thought it was over but didn't see a stop

and then i remembered this day started hella late

like 11:30 at LEAST?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Like if I am being emotional (and I can't be) I WANT Dels to be town and for town Zam to have told scum death "It's okay, I will protect you little buddy."

oh, did he say that.

well ok.

DOUBLE SLASH!

yeah me and death both being scum is technically a perfectly valid option in the PoE

honestly i may be up for it

waiting to settle me vs death for... what, another... 140ish hours?

feels ridiculous

Hate u

Panthera posted...

Personally I'd prefer dedicating the day to this fight to Death between the people who are actually playing. Lynching Shad by default is basically begging for a stagnant day where no discussion happens and kills people's focus.

uh

you're not wrong but also, like, i dunno, it's the safer play overall, isn't it?

i may be at a disadvantage but we already knew that

honestly chris

you MAY die

and it'd help a lot, if you believe it, to tell people that death is more likely scum than me

you don't have to say it, i'm not pressuring you

just, if you may die and you want to be listened to, it COULD help

whats the votal? i assume i can leave and the lynch is set yeah?

uh i meant for besides the scumboard thing

idk

its not really on my mind anymore