Lurker > UnfairRepresent

Darklit_Minuet posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Camera's about $1,000 a piece. Let's say for the sake of argument that there are 2 million "officers" in the US (the actual number is super complicated depending on what you count)

Well yeah, if you severely inflate your numbers, you get a huge total cost. I could say that eating bread is unreasonable if bread costs $2000 a loaf too, but nobody's forcing you to buy $2000 bread

https://www.amazon.com/Wearable-Hidden-Security-Upgraded-Version/dp/B078M36WVD/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1520641181&sr=8-3&keywords=badge+camera

The US police force is not buying cheap gimmicks off Amazon

http://www.govtech.com/em/safety/Police-Body-Cam-Installation.html

It's approx $1,000 per camera. Not including storage

ONE police department alone spent over 1.2 million dollars just to outfit their officers.

This shit is expensive man.

But go ahead, put your money where your mouth is and start a kickstarter to buy all cops in America smiley gimmick spycams.

But we both know you will never ever ever do that, you want my taxpayer dollars to pay for your bad idea.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

That 15% increase in violence due to body cams sounds unsubstantiated as fuck. There's no way that's accurate whatsoever.

The trials were a few years ago and the news media intentionally ignored most of the results because they were bad for cams but some sights picked it up:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-may-be-more-likely-to-suffer-assaults-if-they-carry-body-worn-cameras-a7032891.html

I can't find the .gov stuff off hand but if you look it up you will find it. In France, the UK and the US every single area that trialed cops with cams and cops without cams in the same location, the public was more violent towards cops with cams.
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Sada_Pop posted...

Turbam posted...

How much money would that cost?

All of the money

Camera's about $1,000 a piece. Let's say for the sake of argument that there are 2 million "officers" in the US (the actual number is super complicated depending on what you count)

So that's 2 billion off the bat. But wait, there's more.

You need more than 1 each. You need several more for every department. You need a large amount. So lets say 5 billion just for the cams.

But the main cost is storage and transport. Where do you put them and how do you get them there? A big warehouse area for every law enforcement department in the US is crazy talk.

That's even more billions.

Let's be absurdly generous and say that transport and storage for every Police Department in the US cost 20 billion dollars.

That's still 25 billion dollars you want to spend just to hurt people, do harm, make life shitter and accomplish nothing. It's such a bad idea.
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Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

Paper_Okami posted...

yes and they should be punished if they turn them off

Even when they go to the bathroom?

It's even stupider than that.

According to Okami that cop who arrested Dustin should be punished because Dustin knocked his cam off while headbutting a car...

Its just a blatant lack of understanding how body cams work. If you're going to push a cop for not having an active cam at all times, you're going to be punishing cops all day every day and 99.97% of them are going to be innocent cops just doing their jobs being fucked over by idiots and the weather.
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XBoner posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

All officers? Mandatory? All the time?

Absolutely not, that's an awful idea and anyone who supports it really hasnt thought about it at all

why is it a bad idea though?

Where to start?

To begin with everywhere in the US, UK and France that trialed mandatory body cams has seen an approx 15% rise in violence from the general public as well as increase in harrasment and abuse as some people think a cop with a cam is a target who is powerless to react.

So it increases violence. Terrible idea.

Then there's cost. Outfitting the entire American police department with these things is going to be a fortune and I will not accept it out of taxpayer funds. You want it, then YOU pay for it.

Expensive. Terrible idea.

Then there is the fact that there is virtually no link whatsoever to bodycam footage being used or relevant for court cases. Either for criminal proceedings or investigating police corruption. If someone is being accused of violence or corruption the evidence is usually either overwhelming or too weak regardless of whether anyone involed had a shaky body cam. It would have no signifcant effect whatsoever on any court proceedings.

So it would accomplish next to nothing on a court scale. Terrible idea.

Then there is the fact that cams are notoriously awkward. Footage can easily be edited or even unedited just taken out of context to create sensationalism. E.G someone robs a store, beats up a girl, runs down the street, then is tackled by a cop and beaten before being arrested. Someone takes that latter cops bodycam and goes "Cop brutalizes innocent jogger who was just running to his daughters house" and 17 million people believe it on facebook.

On top of that, cams are insanely easy to break or lose. Cops cams fall off all the time, without even leaving CE that cop's bodycam fell off when dealing with Dustin headbutting the car. So they're irrelevant. A bad cop can easily just knock off his own cam or break it and say it was damaged before doing something corrupt.

So it would do nothing to hinder the behavior of bad cops, meanwhile it would be used to hurt good cops. Terrible idea.

And this is a much weaker point but still a point is that people act differently when recorded 24/7. You familar with 1984? Where people are arrested for saying "Down with Big Brother" in their sleep? Well obviously not that far but cops will be feeling the same sting. Remember that harmless sexist joke you made with your partner in the car in the morning? That's on cam now, then what happens if you're accused of sexual harrasment? Thats now evidence against you.

Remember that kid who got busted for pot but the cop let him go because who cares it's just a joint? Not anymore, you're being filmed. This might come up later. You gotta follow the book.

That guy jaywalking? Can't let it slide, you're on film. Take him down.

Kids playing BB in the street? Remember the cop who joined in and invited Shaq round as well? Can't happen now. Being filmed.

So instead of being friendly human beings, cops will now be more robotic, cold, quiet, strict and inhuman. Terrible idea

Maybe specific officers in specific scenarios where they might be useful? And privatley funded also. I can imagine a handful of scenarios where bodycams might come in handy.

But mandatory for all officers all the time? It's just spending a fortune to make the world a worse and more violent shittier place and an already difficult job more unplesant for no pratical, pragmatic or logical gain. Pure lazy emotion backs it, not real thought.
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All officers? Mandatory? All the time?

Absolutely not, that's an awful idea and anyone who supports it really hasnt thought about it at all
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Tyranthraxus posted...

He was told to stay in his car.

No he wasn't
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Wolf_J_Flywheel posted...

Hed probably still be in jail.

Offworlder1 posted...

Zimmerman was the most wrong however for not obeying the police to stand down, instead he kept following even when told not to.

911 operators are not police

And he was also not told not to follow Trayvon anyway
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

. It's nearly impossible to make a character ensemble game without any likable characters.

I don't agree at all. plenty of games have done this or at least barely any. Dishonored springs to mind.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

It was crap.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

In their quest to make Ryder as unlike Shepard as possible they went so far as to make them an incompetent result of neopotism. Because like, Shepard is a highly qualified soldier and Ryder has to be totally different!

Ryder was also a qualified soldier.

But s/he was also a dorky submissive doofus

I didn't like him much but I respect that he wasnt a generic good or evil jarhead Shepard knock off. Ryder is a new character.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

No, the ending was a huge nothing burger.

Gotta disagree on this bigly

Okay maybe not the game play. You shoot the aliens and they fall down is generic as all hell and whoever decided the final boss should just be wave after wave of boring generic Remnant and an Architect should be feed rotten eggs. Despite spending half the game hyping the Archon

BUT from a story perspective. The way they show how much SAM was a part of you but also how much you have learned from him and he from you. The way they bring in your sister (Including a little game play section that demonstrates just how far you have come in power from the start) in an actual meaningful way. Was a nice touch.

It also adds a personal element to the "He's gonna destroy the galaxy" with the "He's also going to torture your friends and family to death while doing it."

The whole using the scourge to your advantage and memories of your father coming into play, turning what fucked you over into the underdog trump card. The whole thing showing that Ryder is not the wet behind the ears doofus anymore, he's a full blown credible leader.

And as you go, every step of the way you hear all your buddies from all over the galaxy who you have befriended and recruited coming to help you. Actually seeing them put differences behind them and fight in the background and talk over the coms. Really feeling like your work has made a difference. (Especially for me with Evfra and Kelly back to back fighting for unified freedom)

There was some kind of line like "This is now a homefront battle." which really felt fitting. No longer about exploring a new galaxy, everyone there belongs.

It really felt like a bunch of story-arcs and plot-threads coming to a conclusion rather than "Let's go punch the bad guy,"

Honestly from a storytelling perspective I think they did a wonderful job. Which is kinda a shame because so much of the game as a whole falls flat that I don't think many people will appreciate it. It's like the polar-opposite of Mass Effect 3. Which was a wonderful for most of the game but started and ended flat
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

but there are good things about the game too

I can't think of any.

Got the Mako back.
Some likable characters.
Actual fucking Jump button.
Had a (mostly) great ending which is hugely underrated considering how bad ME3's ending was.
Large amount of character banter.
Basic shooting/exploring mechanics all were fine.

And even though s/he was kind of a shitty Joss Whedon esq character, I like and respect how they made efforts to make Ryder not just be Shepard 2.0.
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MLGSerperior111 posted...

Probably helps if you don't proceed following someone when a dispatcher tells you no-

That never happened.

The dispatcher never told him not to follow Trayvon

And it wouldn't be illegal or debatably even bad if he had and Zimmerman ignored it.

I don't get how that justified attempted murder, millions in debt and life ruination.

IT's just weird sadism on your part
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

But steak is good and none of the things I mentioned are go--, oh wait it's Unfair.

I feel like you missed my point.

All those are flaws yes but there are good things about the game too which combined makes it okay.

And okay only feels bad if you're used to great.
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KingCrabCake posted...

Just stop saying murder. Lol

I don't, I say attempted murder.

Zimmerman's self-defense prevented any murder from occuring.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

The shitty writing, weird pro-colonnialism message, fuckstain crafting gameplay, and sea of bugs and glitches doesn't care if you played the other games.

All true but if you're not comparing that to the high standard of the previous games then that won't bother you.

An okay steak will only taste bad if you're used to delicious steaks.

FaytlessHearts posted...

I'm one of the few that thought it was pretty good...it was definitely better than mass effect 3. Plenty of flaws yeah, but as a game? Solid.

Honestly aside from the first hour the last hour and the weird as journal, ME3 was fantastic
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KingCrabCake posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

He wasnt gonna be murdered

Well we will never know for sure but the evidence supports that Trayvon was attempting to murder him.

Stop. The evidence supports an ass beaten

Mounted, helpess being punched repeatedly in the face, Blood in eyes, down nose and down throat, head hitting concrete, Trayvon not stopping, ignoring pleas for mercy and help, saying Zimmerman is going to die that night.

Sounds like attempted murder to me.

Saying Trayvon was taunting and would have stopped eventually is an assumption.

We will never know for sure but the evidence leans towards attempted murder more than felony assault.

Either way, had Trayvon lived he would be behind bars for decades.
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I love Mass Effect and I thought it was pretty good.

It's just that "pretty good" is a huge downgrade from fantastic like 90% of ME1-3 was.
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KingCrabCake posted...

He wasnt gonna be murdered

Well we will never know for sure but the evidence supports that Trayvon was attempting to murder him.
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FrisbeeDude posted...

At least Zimmerman will never be able to live a peaceful live. The general public wont allow it. He'll have to hide out the rest of his days

He's also millions in debt due to the legal nonsense and his family has been ruined.

All because he didn't let a violent criminal murder him.

it's very sickening
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

If he didn't start stalking

Never occured
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ToonLinkWithGun posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

If you think people shouldn't kill people no matter what and go to prison for it you live in a world that will never exist. Best step out of it.

Not no matter what. You can kill someone in legitimate self defense or defense of others.

This was legitimate self defense. You just said you would have NO problem if Zimmerman did what he did with pepper spray which basically destroys your own argument.

By his logic if Trayvon had survived the gunshot then it would have been fine...
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darkjedilink posted...

The operator said no such thing. I know, because I actually listened to the uncut 911 tape. All the dispatcher said was 'that's not necessary.'

Seriously, where do people get the idea that he was instructed anything?

What's annoying about this is that the same people keep saying it over and over again and refusing to listen when people point out that it's not true.

They don't want the truth, they prefer a juicy story to be mad about
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

If Trayvon killed Zimmerman, I'd side against him too. Because killing people is wrong.

Wait wut.

So if Zimmerman hadn't pulled the trigger and Trayvon HAD beaten him to death, Trayvon would be in the wrong.

But Zimmerman is in the wrong because he stopped Trayvon from killing him......

Da fuck
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

If professionals came to the wrong conclusion, why should I listen to their evidence?

Because you cant just state the conclusion is wrong and the evidence doesn't exist because you don't like it.

That's religious nonsense. Not logic

Again I shouldn't need to explain this.

What are you going to do one day if you have a heart attack or get hit by a car? Just say "No I'm not, everyone apart from me is lying"?

You need to think rationally dude.
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

Were you?

No I just listen to all the evidence and facts presented by all the people who were there and the profressionals who investigated it.

You seem to disregard all of that, make up a story you want to believe because it makes you happy and then claim everything else is a conspriacy.

It's madness.
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Well yeah

Why shouldn't he?
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

Almost as if people don't act completely rationally when their life is threatened.

That's a cop out and you know it.

"none of that adds up or makes any sense and all evidence opposes it."

"Well strange things happen."

It's the as mentioned "Well maybe God or martians did it" just nonsense

Darklit_Minuet posted...

Telling him he's gonna die tonight never happened, by the way

Oh you were there I see?
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

Almost like it's more likely that Zimmerman flashed his gun, Trayvon saw it and feared for his life and defended himself,

Doesn't stand up to scrunity unless you're insulting the memory of Trayvon by arguing he is the biggest moron in the past 14 years.

According to you Zimmerman flashes a gun, so Martin responds by punching him, mounting him, making absolutely no attempt to go the gun, then punching his face over and over and over and over while taunting the GUY WITH A GUN telling him he's going to die tonight while he continues to strike, but makes no effort to stop Zimmerman's hands or take the gun? As the guy he knows has a gun who is down and at his mercy but has his hands free from getting it out of his pocket and shooting him?

Come on, don't be that silly.

Travyon was many things but it's insulting to him and his family to argue he was that utterly fucking stupid and inept.

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

There's no evidence that this happened.

Indeed and overwhelming evidence that it never happened.

It's esstentially fan-fiction

Reminds me of this:

https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/1293448/images/n-TRAYVON-MARTIN-MURAL-628x314.jpg
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MLGSerperior111 posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

Neither person was right and both of them escalated the situation that resulted in Trayvon being killed.

Stupid bs caused this confrontation when it could have been avoided, Zimmerman was the most wrong however for not obeying the police to stand down, instead he kept following even when told not to.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Three things.

1. That's not stalking

2. Ignoring dispatch is not illegal.

3. The dispatch did NOT tell him stand down

Your very basic understanding of both facts and the events in question are all completely wrong.

Secondly "right and wrong" may be objective but the law and basic morality is not.

Zimmerman did nothing illegal.
Trayvon tried to murder a man in cold blood.

Trying to put the blame on Zimmerman for that is unreasonable. AS is your unwillingness to fact-check
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TrevorBlack79 posted...

There is literally zero evidence and testimony regarding who attacked first,

This is false. There is an abudance of evidence.

Martin didn't have a scratch on him (other than bruised knuckles from punching and the bullet wound)
The witnesses accounts match Zimmerman's account including Trayvons girlfriend
The time and location of the incident.
The fact Trayvon got home and turned around
How Zimmerman acted after Trayvon was shot.

For Zimmerman to have attacked first he would have done so without using his gun for some reason and never actually touched Trayvon at all. So for no reason he would have suddenly flailed punches in the wrong direction and then everyone would have lied about it. Then the second he shot Trayvon he would have suddenly given up on fighting alltogether despite starting the fight.... That makes no sense

There's also weaker character evidence that I don't like to bring up because it isnt strong but it is relevant for this one issue. Travyon had a long history of violence and drug abuse. While Zimmerman had a long history of being a fat doofus.

Literally none of the forensic, witness or psych evidence matches Zimmerman attacking first. It does not add up. While overwhelming evidence demonstrates Trayvon sucker punched, then mounted him and beat his face in

It's utterly absurd. Might as well claim Martians teleported down and started the fight, then left. Since we can't prove it didn't happen

Second to that "Well we don't know!" would still make Zimmerman innocent due to innocent until proven guilty. So it's a moot point despite the lies.
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TrevorBlack79 posted...

Exactly. Martin was defending himself from a physical attack, which he has a right to do. Further, under Florida law, Zimmerman didn't have to lay a hand on Martin for Martin to legally act in self-defense. Martin absolutely had every legal right to defend himself under Florida's SYG law, since Zimmerman reaching for a concealed object at the point of face-to-face confrontation is an aggressive action that Martin would have felt threatened by. If he had survived the incident he would have been acquitted of all charges, while Zimmerman likely would have been charged with harassment, stalking, and possibly assault.

1. That's not how stand your ground works.

2. Zimmerman would not have been charged with anything for walking down a public street.

3. Trayvon did not know Zimmerman had a weapon.

so that was a whole lump of incorrect.

RE_expert44 posted...

People are still going on about this? It's done. Hes dead. Zimmerman was found no guilty. Move on

IT's hard to do that when people are saying "It's okay to murder people if you don't like them" and Zimmerman is millions of dollars in debt.

You say "move on" without regard for what's being taught here. I'd rather challenge it and improve lives.

Do you think the logic Frisbee has used in this topic is going to be a healthy thing to teach a child?
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Howl posted...

eston posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

eston posted...

Your description of what happened that night is not accurate.

Actually it is. I followed the story literally when it was a local minor news story before the mass media got hold of it (when the police dropped the case immedately because it was so open and shut) and I followed the entire trial.

Please tell me a single fact I have said that was incorrect. I can point out several that many users in this topic have repeatedly.

Actually it isn't. And no I'm not going to read your posts again, because I am not a masochist.

Lol. "I have no way to refute your argument."

You're going to see that a lot in topics like this.

That and "ur racist!"

Just phrased in differently formed sentences.
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FrisbeeDude posted...

DarkProto05 posted...

A bunch of keyboard warriors in here who wouldn't dare attack Trayvon IRL.

This. Coward ass fuckboys who live out their own racist fantasies of murdering black people and getting away with it through this guy. At least he can't really show his face in public. Maybe the cucks who cheer him on can loan him some money

This is the level of logic Trayvon supporters use.
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eston posted...

Actually it isn't. And no I'm not going to read your posts again, because I am not a masochist.

So in other words you can't actually point out a single thing I said that wasn't true.

Figured as much.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Stalking isn't assault. While it is a crime, citizens are not allowed to take the law into their own hands anyways. Physically attacking someone is assault and everyone has the right to defend themselves from that.

Just to add to this, what Zimmerman did wasn't stalking anyway. He did nothing illegal.

And if it was, Trayvon did it to.

So the point is comically moot before you even get to the fact stalking doesn't justify attempted murder
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KingCrabCake posted...

Notice how the people who defend trayvon dont argue facts. They're just loud and aggressive and insult people

They also strawman a lot. And do a lot of "Oh ur wrong" without explaining how or why.

It's pretty crazy.

I get being ignorant, I don't understand actively purposefully refusing to learn just solely so you can be ignorant.
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eston posted...

Your description of what happened that night is not accurate.

Actually it is. I followed the story literally when it was a local minor news story before the mass media got hold of it (when the police dropped the case immedately because it was so open and shut) and I followed the entire trial.

Please tell me a single fact I have said that was incorrect. I can point out several that many users in this topic have repeatedly.
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Howl posted...

No Trayvon was wrong because he was a violent thug who tried to murder someone.

This.

It's crazy that "Well Zimmerman walked down a public street one time" is considered justification for that.

For the record of Zimmerman was a black 105 pound girl and Trayvon was 6'5, 250 pound white bald guy, I don't think a single user would even entertain such a ridiclous piece of illogical nonsense.

It's not okay to attack and attempt to murder people who give you "bad vibes" I literally should not have to explain this, let alone for 6 years straight. Your parents should have explained this to you when you a small baby
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TrevorBlack79 posted...

If someone is "beating you to death" because you stalked them

That didn't happen here so it's irrelevant.

Walking down a public street once is not stalking.

And if you pretend it is then Trayvon is a stalker for doubling back and "Stalking" Zimmerman so the entire point because moot regardless.
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eston posted...

There was a lot more nuance to the situation than you seem willing to admit,

There is no "nuance" in this situation that makes Trayvon's violent attack on Zimmerman justified or makes Zimmerman "worse."

That's a cop-out and you know it.

You also comically talk about "nuance" despite not knowing the facts of the incident in the first place. It's ridiclous that you do that and then get upset that people still talk about it years later. Of course they are concerned.

Do you have kids? If so then damn right I'm concerned that your kids are being taught this because now your kids are legitimately a literal threat to my kids.

but this whole attempted murder narrative you keep trying to push is pretty dishonest of you tbqh

How is it dishonest?

Trayvon was punching Zimmerman's face in while the back of his head hit the concrete ground. Blood was pouring down Zimmerman's nose, eyes and throat while he couldn't breathe or see and he struggled to beg for help and cry for mercy while Trayvon kept punching again and again while saying he was going to die tonight.

You could make the case that it's felony assault if you really wanted but that's a stretch. It's pretty textbook attempted murder.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Martin should call the cops but everyone else gets to defend their life and property with guns.

If Zimmerman had broken into Trayvons house then Travyon would have had every right to defend himsef.

And if Joesph Stalin was the First Man on Mars that would be swell too.

But it's not what happened and irrelevant.

You don't get to follow someone, attack them, try to kill them and then claim self-defense. That makes no sense.
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Nomadic View posted...

Anteaterking posted...

Nomadic View posted...

I think thats a legitimate concern seeing as how the investigation has been ongoing and has yet to produce a scintilla of evidence. It just looks like a witch hunt.

It's produced charges against 22 individuals, all but 2 of which are fugitives or have plead guilty to charges. It's also moving much faster than other special investigations have.

None of which is tied to Trump having knowledge of their actions.

I feel like this is a moot point

If the investigation had ironclad evidence, proof or even leads about Trump's illegality or corruption, why would they publicly release it during the investigation?

That makes no sense...
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

Zimmerman was wrong to keep pursuing after the police told him you do not need to do that.

Trayvon was wrong to double back instead of going home and staying home.

Both made the wrong choice.

"Zimmerman was wrong for ignoring the dispatcher and Martin was wrong walking while black."

Yup I'm on ce

No the issue with Martin doubling back was that he was safely home. And if he truly felt threatened by Zimmerman (he didn't) he should have called the cops.

Instead he hunted Zimmerman in an attempt to kill him. It wasn't the walking that was a problem (debatably) it was the assault.

That's fucked up. The attempted murder part. You trying to downplay the murder part because he is black is disgusting.

Attempted murder of innocent people is evil and wrong. Doesn't matter the color, sex or religion. You downplaying it because of race is sickening.
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Offworlder1 posted...

Zimmerman was wrong to keep pursuing after the police told him you do not need to do that.

Debatable.

But either way not illegal.

Trayvon was wrong to double back instead of going home and staying home.

Debatable.

but the "doubling back" wasn't what was wrong. The attempted murder of Zimmerman was what was wrong.

You can't omit that and then say Zimmerman was worse. That's madness.

BuckVanHammer posted...

1 guy was harassing another becasue black and got his ass beat.

So it's okay for black guys to murder people if they feel like they are being harassed by a man walking down a public street?

Now that IS racism
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eston posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

Neither person was right and both of them escalated the situation that resulted in Trayvon being killed.

Stupid bs caused this confrontation when it could have been avoided, Zimmerman was the most wrong however for not obeying the police to stand down, instead he kept following even when told not to.

This, honestly
But 6 years later and CE still gotta die on this hill

The reason why people are still talking about it is because people like you are literally arguing that walking down a public street is "more wrong" than attempted murder of an innocent man.

And then you openly wonder why people are concerned about that attitude being promoted?
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Offworlder1 posted...

At the end of the day both of them were wrong to escalate the situation.

This reminds me of that scene in South Park where Kyle hits Cartman because Cartman gave him Aids, and the prinicpal makes them apologize to each other for both being "In the wrong."

1 guy = Walked down a public street.

1 guy = Attempted to murder an innocent man.

And in your mind "They're both wrong."

Yeah that's at best complete ignorance and at worst utterly terrifying levels of immorality and instability.
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Anteaterking posted...

They should just respond by telling him that there's no end in sight if Trump doesn't testify.

They really should.

I don't get how Trump's lawyers are holding the cards here... Trump is being investigated. He shouldn't be dictatcing terms. Like him or not that's.... weird.
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Nomadic View posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't follow the logic here

Surely the investigation is over when its finished.... Going "We'll talk to you but only if you give it a deadline" just sounds counter-productive.

What if on day 57 of 60 they found a new strong lead? They just go "D'oh well, investigation ovah!"

I think the concern is that Mueller is just dragging it out which, of course, will have a negative impact on elections. If it is drug out for four years it will certainly be a consideration for voters.

I get that but I don't see how a deadline make sense.

It's basically an admission that you fear the investigation.
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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

So youre cool with people thinking all black people are criminals and are up to no good?

Strawman. No one said that.

The whole situation should have been a non situation. Oh golly a black kid is walking, he must be a criminal, oh no he has a tea and some candy, yup definitely a criminal.

False. You know nothing about the circumstance and are either flat out lying or too lazy to look up what happened.

And you're intentionally dodging the fact he attempted to murder a man.
gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Zimmerman is a piece of shit and is lucky that Florida is awful at law.

Florida is irrelevant. Zimmerman would have gotten off on basic 101 self-defense laws held in nearly every country on Earth.
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I don't follow the logic here

Surely the investigation is over when its finished.... Going "We'll talk to you but only if you give it a deadline" just sounds counter-productive.

What if on day 57 of 60 they found a new strong lead? They just go "D'oh well, investigation ovah!"
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3. cuck
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