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| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/10/17 2:58:35 PM #177 | hockeybub89 posted... I honestly don't care if dumbasses want to donate to people who discriminate. I just don't agree in government-sanctioned discrimination. 1. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean the govt sanctions it. 2. It does matter if people donate to people who discriminate, because unlike in a free market system where discrimination is discouraged, our current system encourages discrimination. A law like this of course will rally the persecution complex of Christians and of course they will flock in support of anyone who is targeted by the government in this way. Why do you support a system that actually rewards people for discriminating? hockeybub89 posted... I do think people should bake Nazi cakes if a paying customer asks. At gunpoint? Like, if a baker would refuse to bake a cake in support of Nazism in any fashion, you would like to see the government come in and punish the baker? Also bear in mind that religion is also not an immutable characteristic and yet Title VII protects against religious persecution. Political affiliation is just a short jump from there. hockeybub89 posted... While I believe in elements of capitalism, it seem naive to think that the free market will always take care of itself. I would rather protect consumers from being treated second-class than hope anyone who could be discriminated against always lives somewhere where they can find a comparable business to go to instead. You pointer out these bakers got donations. Discrimination may pay in certain areas around the country. If even 1 person is treated lesser due to things beyond their control, then that is too many. They got donations from all over the country. There is no corner of the world where donations cannot reach. Like it or not, it does irk people (for good reason) when the government uses it's power to force people to do things they don't want to do, even if the government claims they're doing it for a good reason. And like it or not, this law does encourage discrimination. Idc if you like free market solutions, but you must accept that in a free market, the bakery would have lost money by turning away a paying customer. Your system wound up rewarding the bakers ~$200,000. Now I ask you: Which system is more fair? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/10/17 2:46:08 PM #174 | Squidkids posted... You "literally" .. i just can't... Yes, literally none of what you said there is relevant. Not figuratively, literally. Do you know what "literally" means? ANTI-DISCRIMINATION LAWS ARE IN PLACE SO S*** DOES NOT SNOWBALL INTO TYRANNY BY MAJORITY!!! False. They were originally put in place to keep local governments from segregating. There is no indication that, even back in the 60's, that all businesses would have voluntarily segregated their stores. This is why capitalism is good: all that matters is if a customer can pay. This is kept in check with the democratic-republic view and this stems down to free market regulations. Wrong again. Segregation was forced on businesses by racist local governments. Businesses did not collectively decide to keep blacks out, but many were forced to thanks to Jim Crow. For example, if you wanted to run a restaurant in a Jim Crow area, you were required to have a 7 foot-high wall dividing the white area and black area. Rather than deal with the expense, many businesses stopped serving black people. Again, a free market would have encouraged serving blacks, but thanks to government intervention, "tyranny by majority" got worse. YES! it is a great law and makes F*** SENSE if you look at bigger pictures and the bigger consequences if such rules didn't exist Prove that removal of this law would cause significantly more discrimination. Not all states have a law against stores discriminating against gays you know. So tell us all about how Michigan/Pennsylvania/Indiana/Ohio/etc are hellholes for gay people. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 7:24:56 PM #154 | Squidkids posted... Why do people that own a business try to deny service to someone based on different beliefs not expect it to be shot down? it was tried over and over and over again and over and over again, it is rewarded to the victims of discrimination. It is not "logic" (to the other S*** poster ) to simply "go to another bakery" If someone broke a law over my expense, they will pay. Saying "it's the law" does not justify the existence of the law. To the question of was it wise of them to deny service to a gay couple: Apparently yes! Did you not read my last post where I explained how the bakers made more than twice as much money than they lost? Second, explain to me why the owner of a business holds a right to push personal agenda on people in the name of the business? For the same reason everyone who isn't in a business should have the right to not bake a cake for whatever reason they choose. 3. Pushing this personal agenda actually violates a core Christian belief, no one has commented this at all. I don't care about what Christians believe or if they're following the Bible correctly. Still shouldn't be able to force someone at gunpoint to bake a cake. THe founding of the USA! was there to protect against discrimination and tyranny by majority. It is why the USA is a democratic republic. You are either troll/S*** posting or really lacking in knowledge. Literally none of this is relevant to the christian bakery case. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 6:56:20 PM #152 | hockeybub89 posted... Not baking a cake due to someone's immutable characteristics is seen as discrimination. Discrimination is considered wrong I agree discrimination is wrong. But not everything that's immoral should be illegal. hockeybub89 posted... What I want you to is explain to me how discrimination law is unjustifiable First, because there is a free-market solution to discrimination: stores that discriminate will get less customers than stores that do not. Second, because a law forcing a business to serve someone is unlike any other justifiable law and has worrying consequences and precedent. You should not be forced to make something you don't want to just because the government has classified it as a crime. I don't think either of us wants a situation where a bakery is forced to make a swastika cake because, hey, that's political discrimination if they don't. Third, and what is probably most important to you, is that the Christian bakery actually got MORE money than they lost because of this whole ordeal. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bakery-refused-make-cake-lesbian-couple-raises-record-breaking-donations-n394066 tl;dr: outrage from the general public over the bakery being forced to pay $135k for not catering a lesbian wedding resulted in the bakers getting ~$370k in donations from supporters. At the end of the day, this law wound up rewarding these people for discriminating against lesbians. So not only does the law fail from a liberal perspective, it even fails from a progressive perspective since their only punishment for their bigotry was a couple years of dealing with lawyers and getting a payout of more than double what they lost. Great law, right? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 6:29:14 PM #148 | hockeybub89 posted... You said punishments should fit the crime because of the 8th Amendment. You are also saying all laws need to be backed with threats of violence to be effective. So does that not mean any non-violent crime should be legal? No, but it does mean that not baking a cake shouldn't be illegal. Any other questions? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 6:02:18 PM #145 | Rika_Furude posted... they aren't. nobody forced them at gunpoint to open the business or to operate in america. Can you defend the law on it's own merit or can't you? hockeybub89 posted... That was kind of my point. Do you think that is justified in every instance except discrimination? Most laws are justified. A lot aren't. Why do you keep acting like saying this law is terrible is equivalent to saying all laws are terrible? Quote where I said such a thing. hockeybub89 posted... People who resist arrest may get a gun pointed at them. It seems a little disingenuous to say "People are forced at gunpoint to follow laws" when it is really "If you break the law, continually ignore warnings to stop it or pay restitution, and then one day aggressively resist arrest, you might get a gun drawn on you." Yeah. They will draw guns on you if you refuse to comply with any law. That's why I say all laws are backed up with a threat of violence. You know why no one was punished for Eric Garner's death? Because the law was that you aren't allowed to sell untaxed cigarettes. Because that law exists, the police were required to use violence to stop him, which is why they weren't at fault when his asthma acted up and killed him. So you're ok with that, right? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 4:32:33 AM #130 | Rika_Furude posted... Mal_Fet posted...What's a business with no one in it? Oh yeah: nothing. You're wrong about what a business is and you've failed to explain why anyone, in a business or not, should be forced at gunpoint to bake a cake. Honestly the only reason I'm still asking you at this point is out of morbid curiosity of how far you will go to avoid answering a simple question. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 4:02:17 AM #128 | Rika_Furude posted... Mal_Fet posted...Incorrect. A business is a group of people. What's a business with no one in it? Oh yeah: nothing. And your point is moot. No one should be able to force you to bake a cake at gunpoint, be it your boss or a police officer. What's it like being such an unapologetic bootlicker? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 3:32:28 AM #126 | Rika_Furude posted... Mal_Fet posted...People should be allowed to bake a cake or not bake a cake for whatever reason they choose. Incorrect. A business is a group of people. A_Good_Boy posted... If you think that it's tyrannical that private citizens and other organizations use their positions to stifle the free speech Tyrannical? No. Immoral? Yes. I never said that Google should be forced to keep someone employed. You're just projecting your own natural impulse when something offends you (trying to ban it) onto me. Unlike most regressives, I don't believe in making everything I don't like illegal. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 1:11:37 AM #119 | A_Good_Boy posted... Mal_Fet posted...I4NRulez posted...Mal_Fet posted... People should be allowed to bake a cake or not bake a cake for whatever reason they choose without the government kicking in their door. Supporting otherwise is an endorsement of tyranny. Your turn! --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/09/17 12:34:16 AM #114 | I4NRulez posted... Mal_Fet posted...Rika_Furude posted...Businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. End of story. There are no "two sides to the story". They discriminated, and deserve to be shut down. The existence of a law is not a justification for itself. Explain why it's justified to force someone to bake a cake at gunpoint. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 11:49:31 PM #101 | Squidkids posted... It is not hard to understand. I told you read the bold, just go to the end to this time stamp. The opposing team kept doing the same thing, and I kept "killing" (splatting) them over and over, are you telling me you have no knowledge of shooters? How is that related to the Christian Bakery story...? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 11:21:00 PM #92 | Squidkids posted... reading helps What am I supposed to read, I have no idea what's happening in the video and I don't care enough about your dumb analogy to research it. How about you articulate your thoughts with words instead of with vidya --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 11:17:59 PM #90 | metralo posted... Yes, F*** the law. Businesses should have a right to deny service to anybody whether it's race, orientation etc.. No I wouldn't. I would just not go there. Why would I want to eat at a place like that anyway? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 11:16:03 PM #88 | Rika_Furude posted... ctrl-f "no shoes", no results Woooow... --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:59:43 PM #85 | Rika_Furude posted... Mal_Fet posted...Rika_Furude posted... Do you also have your mommy dress you in the morning? You seem to be the needy type. Discriminate: to make or constitute a distinction in or between --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:56:18 PM #82 | Rika_Furude posted... its not my job to do your research for you. provide your evidence itt or piss off Dictionary.com ^ There ya go, sport. Rika_Furude posted... JcOpIVY86 posted...The free market would gobble them up better than the State would. Jim Crow was instated by the government, not by businesses. So looks like you agree that the government needs to stay out of the private sector! --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:46:52 PM #77 | Rika_Furude posted... you're still doing an extremely poor job at explaining how "no shoes" is discrimination. It literally is. Go back to grade school, pls. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:43:35 PM #75 | Rika_Furude posted... Mal_Fet posted...Rika_Furude posted...Mal_Fet posted...Rika_Furude posted...Businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. End of story. There are no "two sides to the story". They discriminated, and deserve to be shut down. How about you look up the word "discrimination" and tell me if it still counts if poor people are capable of meeting a qualification. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:40:34 PM #72 | Rika_Furude posted... Mal_Fet posted...Rika_Furude posted...Businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. End of story. There are no "two sides to the story". They discriminated, and deserve to be shut down. So you're saying that discrimination is sometimes ok? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:36:24 PM #70 | Blue_Inigo posted... Mal_Fet posted...Rika_Furude posted...Businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. End of story. There are no "two sides to the story". They discriminated, and deserve to be shut down. Imagine not knowing what "discrimination" is. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:28:59 PM #67 | Rika_Furude posted... Businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. End of story. There are no "two sides to the story". They discriminated, and deserve to be shut down. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 10:10:40 PM #61 | Squidkids posted... -Gavirulax- posted...1NfamousACE_2 posted...Just get a cake from another shop? I have no idea what this anime crap is supposed to mean. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 9:57:37 PM #59 | TommyG663513 posted... If there is no precedent for someone having a gun shoved in their face over this then your argument is just some theoretical BS. So you believe that nothing would happen if the baker refused the court order to pay the fine. Correct? TommyG663513 posted... Also, on a completely unrelated note, do you support cops shoving their guns in peoples faces who have not committed any sort of crime? No. hockeybub89 posted... I have. That is not the typical reaction. All laws are backed by a threat of violence. No one would follow any laws if they could just refuse to do what the courts say and never see any further repercussions. hockeybub89 posted... But to answer you, I imagine they would increase fines, try to take you to court, garnish your wages, do some other non-gun related things to you. If things get bad enough, maybe one day they will just finally come to arrest you. What if you tell them you don't want to be arrested? What do police do to people who resist arrest? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 9:17:42 PM #55 | hockeybub89 posted... And I'm saying any crime could theoretically end in force if you ignore enough shit. And there are plenty of crimes were that is totally justified. Now justify the law that forces people to bake cakes at gunpoint. hockeybub89 posted... That is a gross misrepresentation of discrimination. What would happen if the baker refused to bake the cake or pay the fine --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 8:24:33 PM #48 | _Near_ posted... Mal_Fet posted...hockeybub89 posted... 8th Amendment. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 8:13:03 PM #46 | hockeybub89 posted...
Punishment fitting the crime is a Constitutional requirement, bro. hockeybub89 posted... Are you against any and all non-dangerous criminal and civil laws? No? I think any laws that protect your basic human rights are justified. Unfortunately, being able to have someone bake you a cake is not a human right. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:44:35 PM #41 | hockeybub89 posted... Mal_Fet posted...hockeybub89 posted...Mal_Fet posted...Squidkids posted...Um it is actual law people can't do this Some laws are justified. There are plenty of crimes that should require a threat of violence from the police, like homicide, theft, civil driving, etc. Some are not. Niw, explain how forcing a baker to make a cake at gunpoint is a justified law. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:36:44 PM #32 | hockeybub89 posted... Mal_Fet posted...Squidkids posted...Um it is actual law people can't do this It's not an exaggeration. What would happen if the baker refused to make the cake and refused to pay the punitive fine for it? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:35:44 PM #29 | Squidkids posted... Mal_Fet posted...LittleRoyal posted...Depends. If the business has any loans or government money in it, you can't. Should everything that's immoral be illegal? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:32:47 PM #23 | LittleRoyal posted... Depends. If the business has any loans or government money in it, you can't. ^ Exactly. Luckily, there's an inherent monetary disadvantage to limiting your customers by surface traits. Allow these discriminatory businesses to fail naturally rather than send in jackboots to coerce them to bake cakes for people. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:26:46 PM #21 | Squidkids posted... Um it is actual law people can't do this Saying "it's the law" is not a defense. Defend the premise of forcing a baker to make a cake at gunpoint using a fact-based argument. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:23:45 PM #19 | Blue_Inigo posted... Imagine actually thinking discrimination over cakes is ok. It's not ok to flame people, but police should not haul you off to jail for flaming people. See the difference? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:05:24 PM #15 | KrustyTheClown posted... Mal_Fet posted...Imagine wanting men with guns to force a baker to make a cake he doesn't want to make. No really, defend this. Defend the idea of forcing a person to bake a cake at gunpoint. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | Trump Sides with CHRISTIAN BAKER who REFUSED Service to a Gay Couple!! |
| Mal_Fet 09/08/17 7:01:57 PM #11 | Imagine wanting men with guns to force a baker to make a cake he doesn't want to make. Imagine being that much of a bootlicker. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | When did colleges and universities become liberal indoctrination centers? |
| Mal_Fet 09/07/17 10:42:46 PM #48 | averagejoel posted... I'm surprised it's taken this long for the "free speech" non-issue to enter the topic I think free speech stops being a "non-issue" when schools start mandating censorship laws to protect people's feefees. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
| Topic | When did colleges and universities become liberal indoctrination centers? |
| Mal_Fet 09/07/17 10:41:26 PM #44 | It's quite simple: Education, Administration, Student Counseling, and Early Childhood majors are the lowest-IQ college majors. http://www.statisticbrain.com/iq-estimates-by-intended-college-major/ So is it any wonder why leftists dominate these positions? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell |
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