Lurker > htaeD

EDumey posted...

It's not that it'd fail to Ben's role. It's that it wouldn't be confirmed by Ben's role.

Oh right that is a good argument. As far as Ben can tell, Sbell would just be a non star flavor.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I only know my own role, Death. Im not telling scum jack squat.

Well you are blatantly hinting at something already, but that is enough of an answer for me.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying I should be forming new opinions of Sultan or Plum based off of Ulti's post, or forming new opinions of Ulti? I think I was focused on the latter, yes.

The former.
And not so much 'should'. But more like 'would be nice'
Granted I have only checked your direct interactions with Kirby, so maybe I missed some earlier stuff. You did have a big ISO on me after all.

Answer me this then, and I will genuinely consider your opinion and accept that maybe I'm wrong here. You say you can understand why I would take one as more flawed than the other. Do you personally think I am hypocritical for calling out Kirby's lack of engagement, because of my argument against Ulti's vote on me previously?

I never consider personal hypocrisy to be a big deal. But this is a bit trickier since it involves 2 players besides yourself.
So to answer you fully: not really. You have a point that Ulti's posts still offer some value.

But I dont think Kirby is that lacking in engagement either. I buy that he genuinely thinks Ulti's approach is wrong overall.

UltimaterializerX posted...

How much more blatant do I have to be with my hints dude?

Are you saying this is something that Isquen could also have had, but something that wont show up on a flip?

I just think it sounds weird that scum has a flavor godfather who'd still fail to Bens role.

The stars gaining powers sounds like a nice idea, but it sounds to useful to be true.

Yes they would be, thats called a safelist.

Specifically on the Ulti stuff? I said I appreciated that he respects Sultan enough to still consider him as potential scum where everyone else was handing out town reads on him. I also stated I was surprised that Ulti did a 180 on JC by the end. I did post these thoughts in the midst of my Kirby arguments, so maybe you glossed over them. Maybe I'm being buttered up because Ulti is saying I'm reading like town, but I don't think Ulti made any particularly bad observations in his catch-up. I am concerned about him clearing Ben so haphazardly. I don't think we have enough flavor info to do so, so I'm conserving my thoughts on that at the moment.

\

Nah I didn't gloss over them, I was just not done reading yet.
But even those points are seemingly squarely focused on Ulti and dont say anything about Sultan or Plum directly.
Honestly I think Kirby's arguments, while imperfect, are coming from a logical place. The stuff about 'Ulti not having read up yet mattering for plum but not you' comes across like a contradiction that town would home in on.
Though I also understand why you would take the one more as a flawed attack than the other.

I could use some votals with my time remaining being less than an hour now

I will say in advance EDumey, I do wonder if you are making your own reads while all that stuff about Ulti and Kirby was happening

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Ulti was very quick to trust Ben idk if I like that

Definitely making a note that if Ben=scum, Ulti=scum too

I didnt ignore you in so much as I didnt have a bead on Kirby at all
I did answer you tho at the time.
And after looking back I can say(as I did before but in a different post) that Kirby at least contributed more than I remembered.
Now if his contributions were all good I cant tell because sometimes it hurts to read his stuff.

I do want to see how this case even started, but from my limited perspective so far it didnt look great.

I dont know if thats even relevant.
Why wouldnt they be able to scan Ben?

I will also be honest and say I have no idea how to even approach EDumey's argument with Kirby these past few pages

I guess for a start I can say that yes EDumey didnt lead any town mislynches when he became cult.
First we lynched Sbell and he didnt lead my lynch in any way. Then town itself hammered Red, and Han did most of the work against Lopen.

Sultan I am not sure what your questioning is meant to do

Ulti does put a damper on my idea that he is a vanilla scanner.

But then again Ben could easily be a double power role for scum.

Or, the dreaded word, independent.

I dunno Ctes

If Ben is town, scum would love to end the day here and now with his lynch obviously.

Chaeix posted...

I explicitly pointed this out :(

If scum has a flavor godfather then town has a flavor scanner. SBell's role literally says 'if targetted by a flavor scanner'.

But Ben's 'flavor scan' couldn't possibly turn up the kind of result that SBell's role would give, so town must have another flavour scanner.

And another flavour scanner could tell if someone was a star spirit by seeing their flavour.

His role is straight up redundant because a regular flavor scanner does his exact function.

Didnt you say you believed his rolw?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

A planned power fakeclaim likes to hint, yea

Tell that to the last game.

Yeah Ulti I already noticed that he at least set this up.

Ben why did you so blatantly hint at your power? (and yeah why JC?)

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

The role isn't real if scum.

Unless all stars are nilla or something.
Also if I had a nickel for every time I've been an underpowered scanner role on scums side...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Thematically it makes more sense for Mario to find the Star Spirits, since the villains already have them.

However, the Koopa Bros. had Eldstar. But in this game, Eldstar was a TOWN member.

I dont think any stars will be on the scum side. Safelist maybe. But not as a koopa star.

Oh I can believe Ben has the power
But it doesnt sound like a useful townpower

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

However JC didn't claim flavor so that was a bit gutsy

He did tho

UltimaterializerX posted...

Its fine. Im a star spirit, but Im not claiming. Scum isnt getting free info out of me.

We are not lynching Ben. The end.

Ulti we already know star spirits exist, Isquen was one.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I guess there could be an enabler role Mario who searches out Star Spirits and gives them powers, but it seems really weird for there to be another Town whose ability is "find out if someone is a Star Spirit". With the purpose of somehow slyly handing that information off to Mario?

Why do we even need Ben?
The star spirits would tell us themselves if such a role existed.

Did Cody reveal his flavor?

I am of two minds on this myself.
This kind of flavor scanning would pass right through Sbells powers, implying we have another flavor cop...

What if the Star Spirits are all nilla and this is scums power scanner?

But I cant say for sure that town cant have his role.

Ben said this...

I am still wondering about the balance myself. But lets just say, Cody's post immediately made me think it would be cool if there is a Mario role that has to visit (collect) the Star Spirits to activate them or acquire their powers. My own flavor supports this theory and makes mention of this quest.

Well that was a bread sized breadcrumb

Sultan?

PunishedBen posted...

Well answering that would require him to claim wouldn't it

Okay wait nevermind, my memory was too soft on him, Ben practically did ask.

PunishedBen posted...

Also I DIDNT TELL JC TO CLAIM.

True.
But you could have known it was a risk.

If you have breadcrumbed, then how do you expect to remain a mystery in front of scums scrutinizing eyes?

Do your work sure, but when you have time you have to claim

He wouldnt be asking for a claim in that case either

Heck I will just say I dont know why Ben went after you
If I werent so mad I'd jokingly say I was insulted that he didnt target me with whatever he is trying to do.

PunishedBen posted...

That's not the info I am looking for. And if you committing to that then I am content to hold off for today

What the hell Ben
You outed a power role and you think you can just leave it at that?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

fwiw, Scum has been known in the past to do "rereads" and post live as they do them.

I'm inclined to agree with Kirby - I'd rather have the notes taken, and then summarized. Not only does it condense the posts in the topic, it makes summations clear and organized.

Rereads and ISOs are two sides of the same coin really. Town and scum can do them.
Though I am less fond of the method Ulti is using.

I am doing fine, but if Ben is wasting my time

well the consequence is already written.

If he doesnt say, we lynch him

easy

You could have sametimed that part too yaknow?

Ben I also want you say 'why JC' when it happens

Sounds more like a sametime situation

Too late, cant take it back now!

But that reminds me of another lastgame connection I havent looked at too much yet...

Han, do you feel that Edumey is different this game?

Admittedly my read on Han has diminished a bit since I have been proven wrong about Sbell as well

Peace___Frog posted...

Ok. So earlier in the day you thought town Han but scum Sbell was very unlikely. And then you voted to save han.

Can you please walk me through what changed your mind on han?

Oh wait
No
I didnt think Han was scum
I ruled that out because he was behaving so anti-last game.

That sentence you quoted (if thats where you got that from) was me saying that I didnt think Han could be scum if Sbell was town. (And really but still on a lesser note: if scum was scum)
I didnt mean to say otherwise if you got confused about that.

Peace___Frog posted...

Who was that that you didn't want to die? At the time that you voted, things were still pretty up in the air as far as who would be settled on as the lynch targets.

Ehr
Han!
How was that unclear?

I didnt want to risk him dying

Peace___Frog posted...

The only post of substance where you mentioned sbell and Han. The first was about kirby's verbosity, and the third was to me about how you didn't interact much with scum Sbell last game.

Yes, you left it unsaid. Exactly.

I spoke about those two before and after those pages too btw

Peace___Frog posted...

And your vote at the end of day 1 was so out of character for what we saw from you last game. I think you knew I'd get on your case again for not voting :)

Its almost as If I couldnt be around for deadline
Its almost as if I had a conviction to not want someone to die.
Its almost as if I wanted to improve my playstyle in a way thats not even difficult.
Its almost as if I already covered this and you ignored it.

Peace___Frog posted...

And right now, trying to ponder why scum killed Lea, I think you slipped and let on that you know more reasons why scum killed Lea.

EVERYONE pondered that

Peace___Frog posted...

Death t1p173:
How curious that you don't include a "if sbell is scum and Han is town" perspective here. This is your only post on page 4. You were present and active during the sbell/ han thing, and joined me in chiding dumey for not giving a reaction!
But in hindsight, your reactions were less than stellar.

First of all, no it bloody wasnt my only post on that page.
Second of all, there was more to that post than you quoted.
Third of all, I guess I left it unsaid but I did think the inverse at the time was also unlikely.

And yes I know I shouldn't think too much about it. I just wanted it said before the thought slipped my mind.