Lurker > Dark Young Link

Kinglicious posted...

Some were itching for a fight but generally they were told not to get into any. They knew they had some who were more willing to do that (stickman) but still tried to not go to that level. As for "them looking better," no, they didn't. That wasn't a hypothetical, that was another Berkeley rally I think. They went, cops checked them, cops didn't check antifa because they were too far away, now they had to fight with whatever they could find. Nobody really cared because it was just right wing rally in a brawl with antifa with cops told to stand down. There's a strange amount of non-arrests that happens, ever wondered why? Because cops ain't getting in that. Both groups are hated so really situations like those or this one are more "fuck off, you two fight it out, we'll clean up later" for the most part.

There are... several things off with this paragraph.

First off, they were told not to get into any fights? Who told them that exactly? And if cops checked them for weapons, why did they have any weapons in the first place? >_> And why wouldn't they check anifta once they got there? And you're implying that the cops aren't making many arrest because both groups are hated and they're okay with them causing riots in the streets.

Yet... they were perfectly fine arresting BLM rally members for doing far less? It makes no logical sense.



Kinglicious posted...

Don't hold back your words now that you've said them. It's not critique to call people not even human and being proud of your dehumanizing of them. You aren't talking about a singular specific person, but a group of people who share an ideology are no longer human. None of this is critique. It's simply othering.

It's plenty critique. It's just unrelentingly harsh and unforgiving critique. I'm not "proud" at calling Nazis less than nothing, there's no brownie points for doing the obvious right thing and standing up to evil. Call it "othering" if you wish. I hate them for their actions and beliefs. They hate and kill people for their very birth.

Kinglicious posted...

That's not being "opposed to genocide" either. Quite the opposite - that's a necessary enabler for genocide. For example, the Jews were specifically pushed as not being people in a lot of Nazi propaganda. They were dehumanized, considered monsters, and people needed to get rid of them. Once you start saying they aren't human for their beliefs you open a very, very big can of worms that is exactly the one the people you hate used too. Once you put those labels out, you're saying that you'll abandon your own humanity if it means being able to remove theirs. That's becoming a monster you hate, yes.

The Jews were hated because they were Jews, and they made for a convenient scapegoat. You're trying to compare that to actual Nazis who want to kill people for the fact that they were born "wrong". No one is born a Nazi. They choose to be. When you make a choice to embrace that brand of evil, you've chosen to became an enemy of all that is good in the world.

Kinglicious posted...

Nah, chants just don't really scare me. Don't see why they should. Actions or beliefs do, they matter more than a soundbite.

Actions, like running over someone with a car? Actions like threatening innocent bystanders?
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You give love a bad name?
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I wish you asked him how he "knew" Soros was paying everyone off, but I imagine you don't want to rock the boat at your job.
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As do I.

I simply believe in there being consequences for one's actions, words included.

It's fascinating how many people are unable to speak their minds when they aren't being protected.
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Also on the off chance Wang is just trolling me all this time, I'm perfectly fine with it.

It would merely demonstrate the type of person he is if that was the case.
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Kinglicious posted...

They legitimately went out to try to mingle and merge.

With weapons. While egging on innocent bystanders. "Mingle". But you claim they were also "baiting" so...

Kinglicious posted...

Them being armed ties back to them knowing police isn't helpful and things will get violent.

If they're just talking, why would things get violent? Almost like they were itching for a fight. If they wren't armed and anifta was... well wouldn't that make them look so much better? It's strange though, I don't recall a majority of BLM being armed.


Kinglicious posted...

Where'd I say that? Because I said it's terrifying that you'd other and dehumanize people? By all means, I'm open to hearing why you'd become the monster you hate. As for chants like blood and soil, they don't scare me as much as surprise how blatant they're being.

If I'm a monster for being opposed to genocide, then *shrug* I guess I'm a monster? I mean I haven't tried to kill anyone, or suggested a group of people needs to die because they were born different, but I suppose completely rejecting those ideas and the people who share them puts me on their level.

Their chants don't scare you? Yeah, I suppose you're not the target demographic. Like I said, it's not your problem so naturally you're fine with it.


Kinglicious posted...

As for what I think neo Nazis are... that can be a while. I don't mind getting into what I've figured out (there's multiple types and some hate each other) but it'd probably be something for tomorrow.

Alright. I'm going to hold you to that.
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And I find it ah.. "interesting" that you think we should hear these ratbastards out, but when I say they aren't human you suddenly aren't willing to hear me out on why I think that?


You called it "terrifying", yet you don't seem terrified about "Blood and Soil".


I'd like to follow up on that conversation we had yesterday. What do you think a neo-nazi is, Wang? What are their core beliefs?
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You're suggesting that they were trying to make martyrs out of themselves?

Because honestly, I don't see a normal, well adjusted person going "You know, I thought those guys were assholes but after those other guys were mean to them maybe they have a point after all."

There is no "rope" for them to hang themselves with. You either know where your position is on Nazis, or you're too young to read. Their existence is their rope, and no one's hung them yet.


As for "hearing them out" we've already heard them. They came to the rally armed, looking to cause trouble. You can't say "They were baiting you" and say "You should hear them out" in the same breath. One implies that they're just being dicks, and the other implies they want an actual conversation.
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And the whole "We should hear them out, maybe they have a rough life. Maybe if we'd listen they'd tell us why they want to kill off entire groups of people who are different from them".
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The whole "We have to let them speak".... while saying "We shouldn't protests what they're saying" doesn't ring any bells?

Apparently it's fine to speak Nazi views, but telling them to fuck off is suppression?
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Oh God Tana's in the banner.


Literally my FE crush back in the day.


So now it's Summer Elise, Hero Banner, AND Sacred Stones banner I need to roll for.
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So um....

Either 4chan is hacking dailystorm, or dailystorm is faking being hack at a desperate attempt to save face.

https://twitter.com/TheAnonJournal/status/896979716019716098


I'm not sure which would be more funny.
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XFD

Well that's it folks. Pack it up, we literally can't top that.
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LapisLazuli posted...

But their voice! How will it be heard?!

Apparently a storm user posted her personal info on their message board. So I'm sure Amy is going to hear their voice pretty loudly soon.

But they're "just talking", right Wang?
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Yeah I saw that earlier.I wasn't comfortable with even discussing that.


And decent people are expected to "tolerate" such filth?


Glad GoDaddy is telling them to GTFO at least.
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Thank you for making this topic the actual victim. She deserves the attention more than the fucker who killed her.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

In total fairness I am guilty of seeing this crap on twitter and assuming all liberals think the same way.

I mean.

I can go on twitter right now and see some white people making some racist ass posts. Does that mean all white people are racist? Hell no.

Lumping everyone into one group like that is one of the many problems we're going through today.
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Kinglicious posted...

normies,

Alternatively, "REEEEE"
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Speaking about the cops.


https://mobile.twitter.com/deray/status/896793918259556354/video/1


This is exactly how they acted during the BLM rioting right.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

Perhaps.

But then again it's not every day Nazis become brave enough to openly march alongside "Confederates". Armed, mind you.

Antifa was also armed.

That's irrelevant considering the Nazis began the rally while armed. "They did it too" doesn't excuse that they did it in the first place. "They did it too" is an excuse children use, and it sure doesn't work for them.

It's like getting pulled over by a cop for going 80 miles in a 40 zone. Then pointing at the asshole who goes 90 per hour. You still sped 80, someone else also doing something wrong doesn't detract from that.
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Perhaps.

But then again it's not every day Nazis become brave enough to openly march alongside "Confederates". Armed, mind you.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The "counter protestors" are far-left protestors.

Opposing Nazis is for the "far left"?

I admit that I don't pay attention to Antifa, but I'm pretty sure many of the counter protestors were just protesting peacefully.
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Can you please not ping Vlado?

Someone might quote him.
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The police are apparently using tear gas.




....on the counter protesters.



*sigh*
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Honestly I never quite got "patriotism". Granted that may be because I mostly see it as nationalism in disguise. But the whole "My country is the best because it's my country" just doesn't jive with me. If you want a great country, you work to make it great. It's not great just because you were born in it.


That also goes with racial pride. Why be proud that your mother got knocked up with someone, carried you for 9 months, and squeezed you out? Be proud of your accomplishments, not what happened to you. Not where you were born.

Additionally, wanting to make your country better means looking at the bad parts and wanting to make it better. Not telling people "Love us or leave us!". Not pointing at other countries and going "But what about THEIR problems?!". You acknowledge the flaws, and you focus on what you can do to make things better.


Fuck "My country right or wrong".
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

I mean yeah Ulti in fairness?

You literally just tried to say people here approve of someone being shot because "politics".... despite a lack of proof. You can't expect people to not react poorly to that. People don't like being falsely accused.

It's like people think it never happened if it wasn't posted in this topic. I remember it clear as day in the actual topic someone made about the event.

And I'm asking "Who?". Because I absolutely do not remember that, and I don't see myself being silent about someone saying "Hey, it's a good thing someone was shot because they're politically different than me!".

If you remember it clear as day, then why are you being all vague about it? "You people" just seems suspect.
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I mean yeah Ulti in fairness?

You literally just tried to say people here approve of someone being shot because "politics".... despite a lack of proof. You can't expect people to not react poorly to that. People don't like being falsely accused.
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I don't know why people hate on Soros. He's the biggest job creator in the world!

/s
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UltimaterializerX posted...

When Scalise was shot you people were literally quoting lawmakers' beliefs that the second amendment exists to protect people from tyrannical governments. Lasa can check the tape. You're either for violence or against it, you don't get to pick and choose.

I don't quite recall that. Who exactly here was doing that?
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^ Yep. Make sure you have the right person, but feel free to bring these people out in the open.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/896714418490355714

This might have been posted earlier. I forget.

Regardless this is so fucking sad

Sad, but unsurprising.
(Which is sad in and of itself)
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I'm willing to give the mother the benefit of the doubt. It would naturally be a shock to hear your child murdered someone.
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Kinglicious posted...

Where'd I do that?
What excuse did i make?
Where did I say "play nice"

Seriously, stop inserting things I never said.

You're implying them pretty strongly. Basically going "Well guys we have to let them do this because "Freedom of Speech" even though nothing about Freedom of Speech says you have to give anyone a platform, or respect what they're saying.

Kinglicious posted...

That would not be what's being said.
Go back a few posts.
You said to look into the 1930s-40s.
I told you the times and situations are very different, gave you an example with the shit economy and lifestyle.

How is explaining this a defense? It's what you basically asked for!

...Isn't your statement essentially "They're doing this because their life is hard?" Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I'm misremembering what exactly you've said at this time of day.

Kinglicious posted...

...so you don't know.
Because nothing here is specific. You mention Nazi core values, okay. Which ones. What I'm getting is you don't actually know them.

"Ayran purity"? Getting rid of "lesser races"?

Feel free to tell me if I'm missing the mark here. We certainly won't get anywhere if you won't get to the point you're trying to make here.
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Kinglicious posted...

Okay, so now we're making the jump from ideas to the event. Yeah, the guy crossed a line and will be punished for it. What does that mean for the guy unrelated who's also part of the rally? He committed no crime, what happens to him?

Well he's part of the riot, so he's part of a crime I'd say. And again, you don't bring weapons to a rally if you're just planing to talk things out.


Kinglicious posted...

Where did you get that one? I don't have to like something to agree it should be allowed. Seriously, this is just another version of things not said being added in.

Didn't you just say that calling for genocide should be permitted? So long as it's "just words"? Well that's the start of how shit like that happens. "Just words". Which are all directed towards a certain group of people. Their rights seem inconsequential from your behavior.

Kinglicious posted...

What's terrifying is the mindset you're putting out.
They're not people, they should be in jail.

That mindset has never led to good things. It's pretty similar to some Nazi ideology, for some irony.

Nah Wang, why are you scared? They're "just words", after all. I'm not actually doing anything, so it's perfectly fine if I say oh... these white supremacists should be thrown in jail and not be given a trail. Because they're just words.


Though I find it very interesting you have that sort of reaction towards me... yet seem to have no issue with a large group of people saying and advocating far worse. So very interesting.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

Wang, freedom of speech is not an absolute freedom and never has been. You do not have the freedom to violate the rights of another and you can do that through speech. It's why there are laws against libel, for instance.

Yep.

Imagine, for example, someone exposed his real life info to everyone. Family, friends, current and potential employers and told them that he was a serial rapist that likes to prey on children. Effectively ruining his life.

Is that "freedom of speech"? Should that be ignored because they have a "right" to say such things? No absolutely not.
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Kinglicious posted...

Okay, do you know what's going on in Venezuela right now?

Homelessness is the "okay" result. Try no food, medicine, and inflation to the tune of several hundred percent. Jobs exist but they're all horrible. That was German shortly after, we fucked them over. A scapegoat for all their suffering was being looked for and it was the Jews. Add in some anti commie propaganda as you tie it to them and boom. If you really want a mind fuck, read Hitler's book or listen to his speeches. Not everything said is wrong or even sounds bad, some of his talking points are ironically things modern progressives agree with. I mean I'm not sure where we're going with this conversation but i do agree that it's an interesting time period.

I understand there are people living a shit life. But again, that doesn't make what the Nazis did "okay". You can try to make an argument for "This is why X happened" but there is no justification for it. If you're trying to suggest that this rioting is a "cry for help"... that's quite a stretch to put it nicely. Especially since they're rioting over a statue rather than anything that has a tangible effect on their life like food, jobs, etc.


Kinglicious posted...

Oh this is not the secret police at all.
But I'll take a step back - I assume your definition of Nazi is extreme anti semitism and extreme white supremacists views. Is there anything else you can think of?

The very definition of evil? The end result of xenophobia? What happens when allow a group to commit atrocity after atrocity because it's "not my problem"?

Or are you suggesting there's a "Definition two" right now? Like how black people "took back" the N word or whatever? Because I can tell you right now I find both to be absolutely stupid.

(As an aside? Why the fuck would anyone want to "take back" a racial slur? Let the people who made it keep it. It's their eternal shame.)
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Kinglicious posted...

As long as it's speech, and only speech, they absolutely do. This will definitely be a point of disagreement between us.

Well someone died, so it's not "just speech". And when you're trying to get other people killed, it's not "just speech". I can't imagine you'd be this understanding if it was you in the crosshairs.

Kinglicious posted...

I don't like it when anyone is wrongfully accused or shit on, full stop.

You seem perfectly fine with Jews being shat on. You're saying they shouldn't protest people who are calling for their deaths. Because that wouldn't be nice.

Kinglicious posted...

Like you're over here agreeing that they aren't human, othering them, that they should jailed.

For what?
Saying things? Are you advocating for thought crime here? Because that's the only way to do what you're asking for and that's WAY more dangerous. Especially when you've dehumanized the people you're talking about. That's terrifying and incredibly immoral. Those ideas will only lead to direct conflict, in this case? Nazis vs. Commies. Again.

Dehumanizing people is bad? My my! It's almost like I'm treating them with the disdain they treat other people! Except I'm not encouraging genocide. Why is it "terrifying" when I call human garbage just that? You seem fine with them saying hateful things. As for "thought crime"? Nah. They're saying this shit out in the open.

And no, it's not immoral to be against these "people". What's immoral is to stand by and try to justify them. To try to make excuses. To try to get actual fucking human beings to "play nice" with them. Direct conflict? You mean like when they used to lynch people for being black? Or Jewish? Or gay?


And Commies? The hell does any of this have to do with commies?


Kinglicious posted...

.... oh, you don't know what this thing was. Yeah, they shouldn't have protested here because this was always bait. Nothing to do with being a doormat, everything to do with playing by your opponent's rules. It was entirely unnecessary and helps them. Or did I guess, the murder ruined everything there completely.

I'm honestly suspecting that you're baiting me, if anything else. How was this riot "bait"? You're saying they only pretended to commit a crime over a statue in order to look good when someone would oppose their crime? And by oppose I mean sing songs and make peaceful chants until someone on their side decided to take things too far. Yeah, they sure got "baited" by standing up for human rights.

They should have just stuck their heads in the sand and let them keep rioting. After all, it's not our problem.


Well, not your problem anyway.
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I misread what Lapis typed and thought he said "Incinerate all of them", and was like like. o.o

But yeah, I'd be calling for the arrest of every single person involved in this shitshow.

We can "let them talk" in a jail cell.
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Kinglicious posted...

Economy of Germany between WW1 and WW2 was a big factor behind Hitler's ride to power. It's easy to talk a game of morality when you're broke but that went beyond it. We're talking levels of a broken economy on par of current Venezuela, not "barely paying my rent." Different viewpoints also form between people who just went through something crazy like a world war and people who just haven't had a single real war in their lives.

But okay, you said core beliefs. Like what? I assume we auto include anti semitism and white supremacy at an extreme level. Anything on the authoritarian viewpoints or secret police? The modern day one would have to be incredibly different, so I agree with bringing it down to the core but it's not totally applicable.

You're talking homeless? I understand being homeless would make you desperate, but genocidal? It still doesn't justify their actions. And this is coming from someone who has questioned multiple times if he's even going to be alive in the near future, or if there's any conceivable way to get out of the situation they're in. Melodramatic perhaps.

The police are already a concern today. Mainly for the lack of accountability, and defending those who need to be held accountable(aka, Blue Wall of Silence), among other issues.

As for authoritarian viewpoints? What do you mean for example?




Kinglicious posted...

It's the same with the other ones too. Like a couple topics ago we talked about alt furry - some self declared Nazi in there. It's just as cringy as seeing people with flags of the gulag as most of those also would've been shot. None of that makes sense so why is it a thing?

Don't know. It ultimately doesn't matter. They're siding with monsters, that's the only thing that counts.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

twitter makes it look like this in response to a tweet that no longer exists, so maybe there is some sarcastic context we're not getting. Her other tweets arguing with Mike Cernovich don't line up with this.

Seriously. I'm looking at her previous tweets and it just makes this particular tweet look even more awkward. It's so out of left field that it's hard to believe that there isn't more to it.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Nazis are no longer people. They shouldn't even have a right to exist anymore, much less a voice to be heard.

*Nods*

We ignored them before. Never again.
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Kinglicious posted...

I do think the questions asked help a bit, though understanding how people radicalized is pretty big. It's "okay" for them to encourage hate because they should have the right to do so - everyone should. That's without exception. Once you make a rule you've opened the door to always being able to make another. Just let them talk, it's just words. If they make a fool of themselves with that or with symbols, perfect. But I think I said a lot of this stuff earlier already?

Nah. Gonna have to strongly disagree with you on that one. Oh sure understanding how it happened I get wanting to know, I'm a curious type myself. But no, it's not "okay" for them to encourage hate. There is no "right" to spread hate like that. There is no "right" to encourage the literal genocide of a group of people. You can complain about "slippery slope" all you want, but you're straddling the other side of that with this appeasement nonsense.

They've already "made fools" of themselves. That doesn't do a damn thing. Being exposed as a fool doesn't stop you from killing people, directly or otherwise.

But then, let's look at your argument for a moment. "Just let them talk." "It's just words.".

Then why do you care so much about the right "getting shit on" around here? The users here are just saying words. Why not let them in peace?



Kinglicious posted...

We don't have to be polite, no. Where'd you get that impression?

biggest concern i've got isn't in cops but in the fact that we've now got two opposing sides that have been having skirmishes with each other and one got a very clear victory last night. this entire thing was bait, that's the frustrating part. any and every opposition should've just let them do their thing; you let them rally and and let them hang themselves with their own rope. if you do the whole "let me counterprotest!" gig you're just giving them a win because it'll be framed as either ineffective or worse, beat down commie scum.

Right here. Saying that people shouldn't have protested against these assholes, and just "let them do their thing".

They came with weapons from the very start. They were never planning on "just talking". If someone walks up to you with a weapon, they don't want to "just talk". Not to mention, we are giving them a chance to speak. We're just calling them out for being assholes. They have absolutely no right to be treated politely, absolutely no right to not be criticized, absolutely no right to get to riot on the streets without retaliation. Not a single one of us has that right.


If this was just a random group being stupid? I wouldn't care as much. If it was a group of people protesting something stupid that didn't really effect anyone? Then I'd be fine with "giving them rope". But when the message is the message they're sending? No. You don't ignore that. You don't tolerate that. You stomp it into the ground and never let it grow.

If they don't like it? Fuck them.
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Like I literally can't even be mad right now. I'm too utterly confused at the words she typed.

Like, it doesn't appear she's been hacked. Nor can I detect any sarcasm.


Literally wtf Laci?
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...

The fuck Laci? o.o


Please tell me that's somehow monstrously out of context because holy shit.
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Look at that mail today.

5 orbs. Such a beautiful sight, is it not?


(And 1 daily orb because it's Sunday of course.)
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Also on a sidenote?

A fucking brony calling themselves a Nazi? Holy shit what the actual fuck? That's like a black person calling himself a Klan member.


When you side with what is the very antithesis of your existence, there's nothing that can be done for you.


Nazis sure didn't "Love and Tolerate" anyone back in the day.
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Kinglicious posted...

That's not very helpful actually, we aren't looking at people in a completely broken economy as a result of a world war. Here's a question for you: What makes up a modern Nazi? Bear in mind, some who claim it will be gay, furries, bronies, even black - all of which would've gotten the bullet. Some will use various symbolism for shock humor and get labeled by others, though deny it.

You don't want to understand the contradictions people in this group have?

Economy doesn't dictate moral character. I'm broke as fuck, I don't want to hurt people because of it. I don't see how a world war would change that.

As for what make a modern Nazi? I'd say someone who shares the beliefs as the Nazis as the past. The actual core beliefs, not some minor unrelated stuff like "Oh Hitler liked animals so if you like animals, blah blah deflection". Their sexual orientation, color, etc are irrelevant. It's their hate that makes me reject them utterly.

I see no need to understand such people. There's no reason to call yourself a neo-nazi without being a person not worth getting to know. There is absolutely no excuse for their actions, no justification. Nor will there ever be.


Kinglicious posted...

Between the two white ___, not enough to matter. The rest, yeah.

One could argue that if you're willing to call yourself a Nazi, pretend you're a Nazi, act like a Nazi just to "trigger" some people? You should face the same consequences as an actual one. Actions have consequences, it's time "trolling" stopped being a shield for being a shit human being.

Kinglicious posted...

Different terms mean different things and this can be very specific. Otherwise you get the situation where everything you don't like is a Nazi, which I'd like to avoid.

I agree. It's important to not throw the word around carelessly. However in this particular case? Dude doesn't deserve consideration. He ran over and killed someone, he no longer matters as a human being.


A cold statement coming from me? Sure. But at least I'm not a murderer.
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Actually I'm curious Wang.


What exactly do you think we could learn from literal supremacists and Nazis(Again, waving the Nazi flag)?

Why is it okay for these groups to encourage hate, to want to go back to a time where they could legally treat other people like shit? Back to a time where one side tried to exterminate the other side off the face of the planet?


...Yet we have to be polite? We have to give them a chance to speak their mind? That we have to stand there and do nothing while they cause more deaths?

The only thing that should be happening... well I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with exactly what I think should happen, so let's just say they should be arrested.
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DYL

Kinglicious posted...

You don't want to understand them or see their point of view. I do.

Just look in a history book. The 1930-1940 range should do.


Kinglicious posted...

Take Nick Spencer - not a Nazi, though a white nationalist. Not sure if he's also a white supremacist

Is there a significant difference? >_> I don't see much reason to have a strong desire to intentionally keep a race in the majority.... unless you believed that race to be better at doing things than other races, which falls under supremacist does it not?

But ultimately you seem concerned about the "branding" of someone. You take issue with people calling this person a Nazi. Can we call him a terrorist? A murderer? A monster? A piece of shit? A neckbeared ****sucker? Because we have absolute proof that the person who ran someone over is all of those.


And I'd say the anti-semantic chanting and the Nazi flag waving would make the group who started this group a bunch of Nazis. ...Otherwise why allow someone to wave that flag if it was just about "American Heritage"?
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DYL

Kinglicious posted...

I give them as much leeway and sympathy as I give anyone else. It stands out more when it's people on the right in here because they get shit on endlessly here.

Very interesting statement. So what you're saying is that you feel like the right(especially the alt right) gets a disproportionate amount of negative attention? To the point that you feel compelled to stand up for them?
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DYL