Rate the Ace Attorney case: The Magical Turnabout (6-2)

Rules :

1. Rate each case on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Anything above 10 gets rounded down to a 10, and anything below a 1 gets rounded up to a 1.
2. Anything beyond one decimal point will be rounded accordingly: .04 and below will be rounded down, .05 and up will be rounded up.
3. You may grade on any criteria you like.
4. You can rate cases from previous topics if you miss a topic.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PiEuURt1qf19VoYzcFCU1EFa8uqs2teJiVcip7JmjDw/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Results:

Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - 9.8 (37 votes)
Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - 9.7 (30 votes)
Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - 9.2 (32 votes)
Turnabout Reclaimed (5-6) - 8.8 (23 votes)
The Golden Court (L-3) - 8.6 (14 votes)
The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3) - 8.5 (16 votes)
Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - 8.4 (26 votes)
Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - 8.2 (28 votes)
The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - 8.2 (24 votes)
Turnabout For Tomorrow (5-5) - 7.9 (27 votes)
Turnabout Memories (3-1) - 7.4 (30 votes)
Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - 7.4 (29 votes)
Turnabout Academy (5-3) - 7.4 (27 votes)
The Grand Turnabout (E2-5) - 7.3 (16 votes)
Turnabout Target (E2-1) - 7.1 (17 votes)
Turnabout Trump (4-1) - 6.9 (25 votes)
Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - 6.6 (27 votes)
The Fire Witch (L-2) - 6.6 (14 votes)
Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - 6.5 (25 votes)
The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2) - 6.5 (23 votes)
Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5) - 6.0 (19 votes)
The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4) - 5.9 (23 votes)
Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - 5.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4) - 5.6 (22 votes)
The Imprisoned Turnabout (E2-2) - 5.3 (16 votes)
The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4) - 5.2 (16 votes)
The Foreign Turnabout (6-1) - 5.0 (20 votes)
Turnabout Visitor (E1-1) - 5.0 (20 votes)
The Final Witch Trial (L-4) - 5.0 (13 votes)
The First Turnabout (1-1) - 4.9 (25 votes)
The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3) - 4.6 (22 votes)
English Turnabout (L-1) - 4.3 (14 votes)
Turnabout Airlines (E1-2) - 4.2 (22 votes)
Turnabout Countdown (5-1) - 4.1 (24 votes)
Turnabout Corner (4-2) - 4.0 (25 votes)
Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - 3.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Succession (4-4) - 3.5 (24 votes)
The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - 3.3 (27 votes)
Turnabout Serenade (4-3) - 2.7 (24 votes)

People liked Phoenix's characterization and, to an extent, Khura'in's characterization. Gaspen and the Divination Seance was also liked. People had diverging opinions on Andistan'dhin, who was either amusing or got annoying fast. Everyone agreed that the pacing could use some work.

Summary:

The Ace Attorney Assistant Curse finally hits Trucy when a fatal 'accident' during rehearsal claims the life of a fellow magician - and she's held responsible. With Phoenix abroad, Apollo and Athena leap to Trucy's defense, and get their own taste of Khura'in when international prosecutor Nahyuta Sahdmadhi takes the case.

Main Characters : Apollo Justice, Athena Cykes, Trucy Wright, Nahyuta Sahdmadhi, Ema Skye, The Judge
Other Characters : Bonny de Famme, Mr. Reus, Betty de Famme, Roger Retinz, Bonny de Famme, Manov Mistree

My rating: 5.5/10. I really want to give this case somewhere around 7/10. Trucy finally gets some focus and she does a great job! Mr. Reus, as a concept, is an interesting premise of a villain that doesn't feel retconned into an already completed story. Bonny, Betty, and Retinz are fun characters; though, we could really use a couple more characters. The game's premise of "a crowd that actively hates you" is interestingly translated in Japanifornia with Retinz whipping up a Twitter mob. But...I dunno. The murder is a bit much, Retinz isn't wholly satisfying to take down, and Sahdmadhi just feels like an anchor weighing this case down. It's weird at the beginning of the game that the Khura'inian prosecutor is fought against in Japanafornia and it's weird at the end of the game when you work out Apollo and Sahdmadhi's relationship and...they have a whole case against each other and it's just nothing.

7/10

I like this one. Finally Trucy gets to be kind of relevant. It's got bunny girls. What isn't to love?

7/10

7/10

Bonny and Betty are my waifus. That alone puts this case up a point for me.

It's almost really good but something is just slightly missing. I think what's missing is a really good dynamic between Apollo and Nahyuta. I really hate that they chose to save the reveal for what their relationship is until later in the game just to surprise us - if I could have it my way I would have established their relationship earlier so that they can actually have a dynamic in this case. It's so fucked up and weird the way that they hint that they have history in this case but NONE of it gets hashed out here until the end of the game. It's a missed opportunity.

Roger Retinz is great and a fun villain, and I think the murder is good, though I think Bonny and Betty were underutilized. I really appreciate that this case gives Trucy something to do, since she's been kind of a hanger-on... really as long as we've known her, to be honest, so it's nice that she gets some development. Apollo also gets development here - this case feels like it's really designed to make the 'passing of the torch' official by having him save the Wright Anything Agency, even if that plot point does feel a little bit forced. Also Ema is back and Ema is great! The cast of this case makes it.

But yeah, there's just something that's missing. It's a good and fun case overall but it's not quite that top tier middle case that it could have been.

8.5/10.

This case rules. One of the best minor villains in the series with one of the best breakdowns, great setting and mystery, Trucy is used well, some great music. This kind of feels like what Apollo Justice should have been.

Oh and I need to get this off my chest

WHY DID PHOENIX SCHEDULE A TRIP TO KHURA'IN DURING TRUCY'S BIG TELEVISED EVENT? WHAT THE FUCK PHOENIX! YOU DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO BE IN KHURA'IN YET! YOU GOT THERE LIKE THREE WEEKS EARLY!

6/10

It's good, but it has some structural problems. I think they could've split this up into two short days instead of one long day. I also feel like it doesn't explain the details of the murder well. The clinching evidence is supposed to be about the blood in the hole of the casket, but it feels like they barely draw any attention to that fact during the investigation or the trial up to that point. Having Apollo and Nahyuta barely even acknowledge each other in the only case where they face each other directly feels like a big misstep, too.

But I do enjoy the characters a lot. Apollo and Athena continue to be a really good duo. Trucy is super good here, and her testimony is a top tier moment for the game. I love the Bonny/Betty reveal. It's top notch presentation. Retinz is kind of a mixed bag for me before the reveal, but I enjoy the Mr. Reus persona a lot (banger theme, too).

I do have some issues with the murder as well. A big complaint I have is that the whole time, I was really confused about the timing of the murder. I didn't really understand why it was impossible for Retinz to have committed the murder - the whole time I thought that Mistree might have actually been alive and Retinz just went in after everything happened and murdered him then, and the game never really explained to me why that was an impossibility and why the murder HAD to have occurred during the show. Nobody really confirmed that Mistree was 100% dead at that time! I think if the game had been more careful about laying out the 'locked room' mystery here it would have been a lot more interesting to think about, but the whole time I just assumed that Retinz could have murdered him when he actually arrived at the scene later so it didn't feel like much of a puzzle to me.

6

4.5

Eh. Would've benefited from having a different prosecutor.

4. it's not bad, just not in the top half of AA cases!

Paratroopa1 posted...

the whole time I just assumed that Retinz could have murdered him when he actually arrived at the scene later so it didn't feel like much of a puzzle to me.

Yeah, I actually thought the same thing the first time I played it, too.

There's part of me that wishes this game bucked tradition and put Nahyuta as the prosecutor of the first case. Like just, fuck it, no Payne this time, Phoenix just getting thrown straight into the fire with a scary and formidable prosecutor. I feel like having Nahyuta be introduced in 6-2 takes the edge off of him a little bit. 6-2 would be a better case if it was Klavier or Simon instead of Nahyuta, and just don't have 6-2 be a case about the new prosecutor and have it be focused on Apollo and Trucy instead. I dunno, I know this is kind of a radical rewrite of the game, but I just dislike the way they used Nahyuta.

Yeah, I think Nahyuta is a victim of the game's structure of jumping back and forth between locations, as well as having to give all the characters a case. I don't mind 6-4, but it does nothing to advance Nahyuta's character, especially in the aftermath of the reveal of his relationship with Apollo and Dhurke in 6-3.

6.9/10

Retinz is good. I love the De Fammes so much. Bonnie's so cuuuuuuuuute! The animation where Betty gets angry and starts bumping into her while she just kinda meekly stands there is honestly my favorite animation in the entire Phoenix/Apollo set of 6 games.

Trucy is the best part, though. Her breaking down in the holding cell is maybe the most touching crying scene in the series to me. Other crying scenes feel too forced or don't have the impact that Trucy's does. It breaks my heart.

By the way, a magician just flat out tells us how their trick works in a Japanese murder mystery game????!!!!!! WOW who knew it could actually be that easy?!

Really good storytelling here, but yeah, the murder itself is just kinda whatever, and Nahyuta does his absolute best to suck the life out of the trial.

7

6/10

This is just a nice, good case. A lot of good reveals, although I agree that Nahyuta is...well, he just kinda exists here.

Let's all discuss our favorite Bonny/Betty animations

My favorite is when Bonny lifts up her hat for the bunny to appear and nothing happens. That brief confused look up into her hat before she looks back at camera and starts bouncing happily again is so good.

The presentation of the twin reveal is great, even though the twist itself was pretty clear.

Paratroopa1 posted...

There's part of me that wishes this game bucked tradition and put Nahyuta as the prosecutor of the first case. Like just, fuck it, no Payne this time, Phoenix just getting thrown straight into the fire with a scary and formidable prosecutor. I feel like having Nahyuta be introduced in 6-2 takes the edge off of him a little bit. 6-2 would be a better case if it was Klavier or Simon instead of Nahyuta, and just don't have 6-2 be a case about the new prosecutor and have it be focused on Apollo and Trucy instead. I dunno, I know this is kind of a radical rewrite of the game, but I just dislike the way they used Nahyuta.

it's kinda wild that he's only the prosecutor in one of the cases that takes place in his own country

8.2.

Bonus points for the best murder method in the series

Paratroopa1 posted...

There's part of me that wishes this game bucked tradition and put Nahyuta as the prosecutor of the first case. Like just, fuck it, no Payne this time, Phoenix just getting thrown straight into the fire with a scary and formidable prosecutor. I feel like having Nahyuta be introduced in 6-2 takes the edge off of him a little bit. 6-2 would be a better case if it was Klavier or Simon instead of Nahyuta, and just don't have 6-2 be a case about the new prosecutor and have it be focused on Apollo and Trucy instead. I dunno, I know this is kind of a radical rewrite of the game, but I just dislike the way they used Nahyuta.

The only way that happens is if the first murder victim is Payne, or if Maya has to channel Payne so he can argue against Phoenix with terrible logic from beyond the grave.

Make Payne the prosecutor for 6-4 instead of 6-1 so Athena can get her revenge on him

Anagram posted...

The only way that happens is if the first murder victim is Payne, or if Maya has to channel Payne so he can argue against Phoenix with terrible logic from beyond the grave.

Have Nahyuta show up shortly after Payne is introduced to show him utter contempt and kick him off the case, so at least one person in the country recognizes he's trash. You still get Payne and his new gimmick but also something completely unique for the series happening and a cooler intro for the prosecutor

Athena will never get to show off and become the equal of Phoenix and Apollo. Even a theoretical AA7 would still have nothing significant for her to do, except to get another filler case.

4.5/10

I feel like I shouldve liked this one more than I did. I like the idea of the setting but for some reason it just didnt work together all that great.

NFUN posted...

Have Nahyuta show up shortly after Payne is introduced to show him utter contempt and kick him off the case, so at least one person in the country recognizes he's trash. You still get Payne and his new gimmick but also something completely unique for the series happening and a cooler intro for the prosecutor

Yeah, I would like this a lot better too. I dunno, I just desperately think that Nahyuta should have been introduced in his home country and that he needed more pizzazz to his introduction. They should have made Nahyuta intimidating and he's just not.

just compare what 3-4 does for Godot with 6-4 for Nahyuta

the fact that it's a trial-only case isn't an issue because 3-4 does a ton to advance Godot's character

I think Spirit of Justice's plot did a lot of things right structurally. Having Phoenix be boots on the ground in Khura'in first is a good use of the character, and letting Apollo take the lead in the finale is the right call, too. I also think it's why they needed to have Apollo stay at the end because three playable characters isn't a tenable situation for the series. Needing Athena to take the lead for 6-4 instead of having another Apollo/Nahyuta case to advance their story is a problem there's no easy answer for with three protagonists.

I also think having Phoenix punk Nahyuta on his home turf in the opening case of the game when he barely knows what he's doing in their court system would've taken a lot of bite out of the character.

Actually, maybe the best way to do it would have been to do both of Phoenix's cases back to back. You get a good first impression of Nahyuta because he actually beats Phoenix in his first appearance, and you lay the foundation for Apollo vs. Nahyuta in this case.

also changing the case order maybe lets Phoenix get home in time to see Trucy's show

9

LeonhartFour posted...

Apollo stay at the end because three playable characters isn't a tenable situation for the series.

That sounds great and all, but if they ever make AA7, they ended AA6 with the implication that they'd finally address Apollo and Trucy's relationship in the next one.

Anagram posted...

That sounds great and all, but if they ever make AA7, they ended AA6 with the implication that they'd finally address Apollo and Trucy's relationship in the next one.

just have Trucy study magic at the distinguished Khura'in School of Magic to reunite her with Apollo for the epic case or something (or just have Apollo visit on a break from Khura'in, whichever)

and definitely kill off Lamiroir before she can tell them the truth herself

LeonhartFour posted...

Actually, maybe the best way to do it would have been to do both of Phoenix's cases back to back. You get a good first impression of Nahyuta because he actually beats Phoenix in his first appearance, and you lay the foundation for Apollo vs. Nahyuta in this case.

also changing the case order maybe lets Phoenix get home in time to see Trucy's show

I have more to say about this but I'll talk about it when we get to 6-3

8

Turnabout Serenade if the performers revealed their secrets outright. It also kind of gives me 1-2 vibes in that it really throws out some strong backstory for important characters right out the gate with an over the top, powerful antagonist.

I enjoyed both Bonny and Betty. The audacity of them to do the "good twin/evil twin" thing twice in this franchise, but they are still very distinct characters from Dahlia and Iris. I never once thought "wow are we doing this again?" And, well, Bonny is the best. Sorry, I see an adorable bunny girl and I must protect. She's so cute!!!!

Retinz is an absolute bastard of a villain, utterly despicable. Horrible stinky evil Tony Stark of a man. They did a phenomenal job making him so over the top and sleazy that even those of us who don't care for Trucy (she's mostly fine, but I felt like there were too many panty jokes in DD) much or are tired of the AJ (game) magician drama storylines want him DEAD. And Christ his design is so good. I love how his profile reads both as "douchey tv executive" and "douchey magician" at the same time. The character designers for these games are so powerful ...

I honestly am in the minority here when I say that Nahyuta is great in this case. He reeks of shitty religious hypocrisy and smugness, but has a dash of fish out of water foreigner funness and seems to respect Ema. Offering a glowing recommendation for a burger with his usual deadpan expression was incredible . I think I'm okay with him in this case because I don't really expect much else besides a nasty antagonist. It's only later on when he just doesn't budge where it annoys me.

I was a bit confused with the mystery itself, which is probably why this isn't a 9. I didn't mind it being weird and convoluted (because magicians) but I did find myself saying shit like "why is no one talking about the lack of blood on Trucy's sword" and "are you sure Retinz has an airtight alibi?"

nahyuta's theme is fantastic. also enjoy letting it go and moving on

6-1: 6
6-2: 8

7

7

Paratroopa1 posted...

There's part of me that wishes this game bucked tradition and put Nahyuta as the prosecutor of the first case. Like just, fuck it, no Payne this time, Phoenix just getting thrown straight into the fire with a scary and formidable prosecutor. I feel like having Nahyuta be introduced in 6-2 takes the edge off of him a little bit. 6-2 would be a better case if it was Klavier or Simon instead of Nahyuta, and just don't have 6-2 be a case about the new prosecutor and have it be focused on Apollo and Trucy instead. I dunno, I know this is kind of a radical rewrite of the game, but I just dislike the way they used Nahyuta.

This would have been way better. Just keep Nahyuta out of the "US" entirely. I've said this before but I was furious when he popped up in 6-4 as well. Jesus.

6.5/10 for this one

10/10. People's opinions here confuse me again. This is one of reddit's favorite non-finale case and generally considered the best SoJ case. This case develops Trucy more than the previous two games combined. The rest of the witnesses are extremely fun especially the culprit. Nahyuta stays the worst part of SoJ but it should be fine for his first appearance where most prosecutors with maybe the exception of Klavier are worse than they usually are.

"Generally considered the best SoJ case"

what the FUCK?

Paratroopa1 posted...

"Generally considered the best SoJ case"

what the FUCK?

on reddit

Did everyone on reddit get a nosebleed after they saw Betty and then passed out and forgot to play the rest of the game. that's literally the only way I could possibly explain this

Paratroopa1 posted...

Did everyone on reddit get a nosebleed after they saw Betty and then passed out and forgot to play the rest of the game. that's literally the only way I could possibly explain this

I think most people just really liked Retinz way more than the culprits of the succeeding cases. There are some other stuff too but I'd rather get to those cases first.

I mean I do like Retinz a lot but not nearly enough for it to come even close to 6-3 or 6-5

I have not checked in years, but it became cool to hate 6-5 on the AA subreddit a while back. I dont get it either.

Yeah, 6-2 has an odd cult following out there. I discovered it myself a couple years ago.

Actually, change my score to 6.

yeah, I think reddit's the odd one out here, not us

I have a friend who loves Ace Attorney but absolutely hates the epic finale cases. His favorite case is 2-3 and his least favorite case is 2-4. Basically, he really likes the lighthearted atmosphere, but really doesn't enjoy it when games get dramatic.

Is 6-5 really not popular on reddit? I did a bit of searching and it seems like 6-5 does well in all the popularity polls there.