I know I've been on CE too long when I read that as "circumcision".Equality under the law in all circumcisions would certainly be interesting, tho.
Get rid of fines entirely.
If a crime is minor enough that a token amount of money makes it "settled" with society, then maybe it shouldn't even be a crime.
Get rid of fines entirely.
If a crime is minor enough that a token amount of money makes it "settled" with society, then maybe it shouldn't even be a crime.
Throwing people in prison for even the most trivial offenses seems bad when we already habe prisons overcrowed to the point that its often a humanitarian crisis that spirals itself into an ever worse money pit and crime situation.A weekend in jail for speeding would definitely be more of a deterrent than a minor fine and court fees.
Fines should be used to fund safety nets, rehabilitation efforts, and for reperations/repairs to damaged infastructure/nature and thosr victimized.Do we really want a society that's dependent on people breaking the law? All you get out of that is more and more-asinine laws, all for the sake of generating revenue.
A weekend in jail for speeding would definitely be more of a deterrent than a minor fine and court fees.god it just never fails that any time I click a topic that is even slightly political I see you posting the absolute dumbest fucking shit I've ever seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qb-6PyNFKs
or, just double up the punishment for causing a wreck, and stop worrying about speeding
I dont understand why you think that income or wealth based fines are not equality.
god it just never fails that any time I click a topic that is even slightly political I see you posting the absolute dumbest fucking shit I've ever seenHe's not the worst conservatroll out there, but he is STILL a conservatroll at heart.
I dont understand why you think that income or wealth based fines are not equality.They are by definition not equality. You might be able to argue equity, but certainly not equality.
They are by definition not equality. You might be able to argue equity, but certainly not equality.You must be using a different definition of equality.
They are by definition not equality.It arguably could be, if the fines were a fixed percent of income.
It arguably could be, if the fines were a fixed percent of income.
What percent of income should we confiscate for driving 20 over the limit, or jaywalking, or dumping mercury into the river?
god it just never fails that any time I click a topic that is even slightly political I see you posting the absolute dumbest fucking shit I've ever seenHow is that any more dumb than insisting Elon Musk pay like a million dollars for a parking ticket?
You mean like monetary fines? Do you think monetary fines serve as a deterrence in any way?
What about if traffic violations lead more to being able to lose your license.
Get rid of fines entirely.You do realize that most traffic violations only result in a fine. You want to just get rid of most driving laws?
If a crime is minor enough that a token amount of money makes it "settled" with society, then maybe it shouldn't even be a crime.
How is that any more dumb than insisting Elon Musk pay like a million dollars for a parking ticket?The idea is that you hit them with an amount that would actually work as a deterrent, the way it does for poorer people.
Throwing someone in jail over a speeding ticket is laughably ridiculousWeekend sentencing is already a thing for petty shoplifting.
You do realize that most traffic violations only result in a fine. You want to just get rid of most driving laws?Yes. People drive like idiots all the time, and the usual consequence is horns and middle fingers.
Weekend sentencing is already a thing for petty shoplifting.
I don't think shoplifting and running a stop sign should fall into the same category.So you do a saturday afternoon in jail, or go pick up trash by the highway.
Put the punishment when actual harm happens.
Run a red and t-bone someone, you're gonna have a bad time. Sneak in right after the light changes, nothing happens. If anything, the yellow should be longer.
Red light cameras are universally hated,
I won't feel safer about being a pedestrian just because I saw 10 close calls with a pedestrian instead of an actual accident. Both will make me think twice about walking in an area.Blame the classic North American stroad for that.
We should have more of them regardlessThe penalize the car (or rather, the owner), and not the driver . Cars can't break laws, only people can.
Blame the classic North American stroad for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad
Residential neighborhoods should be full of bumps and berms, making it functionally impossible to speed, rather than put up an arbitrary sign that's never enforced until some kid chases a ball into the street.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming
The penalize the car (or rather, the owner), and not the driver . Cars can't break laws, only people can.
Blame the classic North American stroad for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad
Residential neighborhoods should be full of bumps and berms, making it functionally impossible to speed, rather than put up an arbitrary sign that's never enforced until some kid chases a ball into the street and gets splatted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming
It arguably could be, if the fines were a fixed percent of income.Not really if you look at edge cases. The fines structure would end up as complicated as the tax code.
No not talking about race and sex and all that so you can go ahead and fuck off bigots.
Those with power and wealth absolutely should be held to a higher standard then those without. Especially with fines. A flat 50k fine that might drive a mom and pop to homelessness or suicide isn't even a rounding error to a corporate CEO.
Say If I as a service worker am charged 500 for a speeding ticket, someone making a million year should be charged 50k and Elon Musk should be charged 500 million.
Not really if you look at edge cases. The fines structure would end up as complicated as the tax code.So then, what's the methodology?
This is probably the best solution IMOA lot of places do both. Tickets come with fines but also put points on your license. Get ten points and you lose your license for a year or whatever. For normal people the fine is the deterrent and for those who can afford the fines without noticing the points are the deterrent.
Throwing someone in jail over a speeding ticket is laughably ridiculous, but fines also don't work because they hurt the poor FAR more than they hurt the rich.
Traffic violations being a mark against your driving record with associated penalties is the best.
So then, what's the methodology?The "methodology" is that proportional fines are a terminally dumb idea.
Why should someone with no kids pay more for rolling through a stop sign? We're already paying for schools we don't use.
For normal people the fine is the deterrent and for those who can afford the fines without noticing the points are the deterrent.Or, you lawyer it down to a non-points "equipment" violation, and end up paying about ten times as much overall anyway, give or take fucked insurance premiums.
The "methodology" is that proportional fines are a terminally dumb idea.Well, yeah, but you gotta slowly nudge the advocates to work that out for themselves.
The "methodology" is that proportional fines are a terminally dumb idea.Flat fines that functionally mean the wealthy dont have to obey the same rules as the rest of us are far worse.
Flat fines that functionally mean the wealthy dont have to obey the same rules as the rest of us are far worse.
So is your solution to have the fine be a percentage of a person's net worth? Percentage of what they have liquid? Percentage based on the value of the vehicle that caused the violation?
Don't complain about the problem without giving a proper solution.
So is your solution to have the fine be a percentage of a person's net worth? Percentage of what they have liquid? Percentage based on the value of the vehicle that caused the violation?I thought my general belief about a solution was pretty evident from posting in a thread about proportional fines and clearly indicating that flat fines are worse than having to deal with the more complicated process of assigning proportional fines. I doubt youre going to consider me saying net worth here to be any more of a solution than my previous post.
Don't complain about the problem without giving a proper solution.
I thought my general belief about a solution was pretty evident from posting in a thread about proportional fines and clearly indicating that flat fines are worse than having to deal with the more complicated process of assigning proportional fines. I doubt youre going to consider me saying net worth here to be any more of a solution than my previous post.
Not that I'm stanning for the wealthy, becasue fuck em, but if we both get caught pissing in public, the idea that my fine should be $50 but yours should be $100 because your job pays you twice as much as mine does seems odd to me. Then 2 years from now we both get caught again, but this time you're unemployed and I got a promotion, so I'm paying the $100 this time around, and you're only paying $20 becasue you're collecting unemployment.
All this will do is have the wealthy find even more loopholes to hide their wealth, while us middle and lower class people will get nickel and dimed to death.
Get rid of fines entirely.Yeah, that's a terrible idea.
If a crime is minor enough that a token amount of money makes it "settled" with society, then maybe it shouldn't even be a crime.
Do you think fines provide a deterrence for crimes such as that? If you don't (which might be true, maybe it doesn't), then we should do away with any fine at all and push for some form of non financial penalty, for example, jail time. Which still impacts poor people more, but let's ignore that for now.
Or do you just feel icky about the idea of paying more solely because you make more money?