so anime filler is filler no matter what? even if author signs off on it?

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Current Events » so anime filler is filler no matter what? even if author signs off on it?
hypothetical: manga author realizes glaring error in own manga that leaves readers confused, said author flat out tells anime production company "hey my original scene doesn't make sense, add this, change that, and adapt it like this instead please" and whatever got changed changed for the better

author even tweets out "hey guys i wanted this changed and i got it changed"

would said situation still be considered yucky non-canon filler moment 62? are there any real life situations similar to this? i only keep up with DB here and there btw
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Filler is anything that I dislike
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Filler is like the fly episode in breaking bad. Its to personal taste whether someone likes it or not. But it doesnt contribute to the plot, and any character development could have been done in the plot theres no reason it had to be filler
Kloe_Rinz posted...
Filler is like the fly episode in breaking bad. Its to personal taste whether someone likes it or not. But it doesnt contribute to the plot, and any character development could have been done in the plot theres no reason it had to be filler
i get the usual definition of filler like the Dragon Ball Z driving episode

but what if author's like "oh shoot i could have expanded on this pivotal plot/character point but i didn't, too late for me but not too late for the anime I GOTTA GIVE THEM MY DIRECTIONS"?
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Filler is just something that wasn't in the source material. So yes, filler is filler.
(edited 2/30/2023 10:51:12 AM)
Tsukasa1891 posted...
Filler is just something that wasn't in the source material. So yes, filler is filler.

boo that's dumb

yes i know filler being filler doesn't mean all filler is bad

just sounds dumb to me that if an original manga scene flat out makes zero sense and any anime adaptation improves on it with the guidance of the original author readers are still like "hyuck hyuck not canon bro"
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Filler isn't typically just a scene though. It's usually an entire episode. And almost nothing of substance happens in the episode. Something being reworked or fully fleshed out by the author to explain themselves better in a scene or two often isn't regarded as filler. Especially if it is important and actual fills in the plot or a characters backstory in a way the creator wanted it to.
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EmilyWillis posted...
boo that's dumb

yes i know filler being filler doesn't mean all filler is bad

just sounds dumb to me that if an original manga scene flat out makes zero sense and any anime adaptation improves on it with the guidance of the original author readers are still like "hyuck hyuck not canon bro"
you cant really have a already created and finished plot and then insert something in the middle of it without changing anything else and have it not be filler
Filler is when an anime adaptation catches up to where the manga is, so it creates new material that doesn't alter the status quo of characters in the manga so that viewership can be retained without being unable to return to the source material.

EmilyWillis posted...
just sounds dumb to me that if an original manga scene flat out makes zero sense and any anime adaptation improves on it with the guidance of the original author
Definitionally not filler.
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Bandit_Keith posted...
Filler isn't typically just a scene though. It's usually an entire episode. And almost nothing of substance happens in the episode. Something being reworked or fully fleshed out by the author to explain themselves better in a scene or two often isn't regarded as filler. Especially if it is important and actual fills in the plot or a characters backstory in a way the creator wanted it to.

well not according to this:
Tsukasa1891 posted...
Filler is just something that wasn't in the source material. So yes, filler is filler.

*barf emoji*
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mattymad posted...
It can be entire arcs/series, that's where the big complaints come in.
Indeed. My point was that it's not just a single scene being reworked, which is what TC is talking about.
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Its got nothing to do with source material. All filler is, is content that doesnt progress the plot or significantly progress character development/relations

you cant have a finished product, insert something in the middle and have it not be filler because it doesnt change anything else about the series. If you change other aspects of the series to account for the new content, then it wouldnt necessarily be filler
EmilyWillis posted...
well not according to this:
That's one person's opinion, and just like people like this:

EmilyWillis posted...
the guidance of the original author readers are still like "hyuck hyuck not canon bro"
His opinion doesn't matter.

People ignore the Word of God because they chose to, but their opinions don't mean shit.
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EmilyWillis posted...
i get the usual definition of filler like the Dragon Ball Z driving episode

but what if author's like "oh shoot i could have expanded on this pivotal plot/character point but i didn't, too late for me but not too late for the anime I GOTTA GIVE THEM MY DIRECTIONS"?

The whole zanpakuto arc in bleach was 3 seasons long and added nothing to the base plot. It was unnecessary and could have been done as a movie or ova or something. Filler is trash
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If a creator says something from a filler is canon, then it becomes canon. Maybe not the entire canon arc, but that piece of lore at least.

Like in Bleach, a later chapter references a place from the 1st movie. Said movie, like all Bleach movies, isn't canon, but that specific location now retroactively gets added to the canon because it's been mentioned in the manga. Ichigo mentioned going to said location -- something he does in the movie -- so that action becomes canon, but there's nothing to state that the full events of the 1st movie are now canon.

Another Bleach filler arc incorporated ideas and characters that the author wanted to put in the manga, but couldn't due to time constraints. So those ideas and characters are canon, but not necessarily the events of the arc.

At the end of the day, if the creator says something is canon, there's nothing you can really do about it. Maybe it does contradict the previous canon, but...I mean, even the canon can contradict the canon at times. Plot holes are going to be a thing regardless.
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In terms of anime, filler is content created to try and prevent the anime from catching up to the manga. Thats all filler is. Theres also no such thing as filler scenes like youre describing. Filler is typically entire episodes, or even arcs.

Hell, Naruto is literally 41% filler.
One Pieces anime has pacing problems because they refused to just do masses of filler, and instead slowed the pace down to avoid catching up. Thats why One Piece is only around 7.6% filler.
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Kloe_Rinz posted...
Its got nothing to do with source material. All filler is, is content that doesnt progress the plot or significantly progress character development/relations

you cant have a finished product, insert something in the middle and have it not be filler because it doesnt change anything else about the series. If you change other aspects of the series to account for the new content, then it wouldnt necessarily be filler

imagine in a manga two characters end up in a relationship and readers are like "wtf that came out of nowhere, zero-build up why would they be together anyways???"

author's like "awww fuck they're right" so author creates some scenes where they're interacting together away from others, like the group of all the heroes are all out camping the night before a big battle and author creates new scenes with the two characters in mind, doesn't change the final ending of the battle

or the two characters could be spectating some tournament battle and author's like "hey here's a good time to make these two characters talk and depict some chemistry or something let me tell the anime company to do this", those two chatting wouldn't change anime protagonist #5 powering up and winning lol

PraetorXyn posted...
In terms of anime, filler is content created to try and prevent the anime from catching up to the manga. Thats all filler is. Theres also no such thing as filler scenes like youre describing. Filler is typically entire episodes, or even arcs.

i can think of one scene in dbz, uh dbz spoilers i guess? lol

during Cell and injured SSJ2 Gohan's beam struggle the other non factor Z fighters all put their efforts in blasting at Cell but Cell blows them away or something before Vegeta sends the pivotal blast that distracts Cell, yamcha tien piccolo krillin aren't shown in the manga shooting beams at Cell but they're just gonna stand and do nothing while Cell is standing still in the beam struggle and overpowering Gohan? the anime definitely improved that lol

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Since word of god/creator is always canon, I'd say that situation would still be filler but canon filler.
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Filler doesn't automatically mean bad BTW. It tends to be disliked because it can't change anything going forward, but there are plenty of examples that flesh out characters that might not have gotten much panel time in the manga. It's still filler even if it's good filler and you're allowed to like it.
You are basically hitting the reason why people who carpet bate filler are full of it. Like in HxH there is a lengthy scene early on that was added strictly to fill in a spot that the manga skipped over (they were stuck in a room). The anime took the time to flesh out the roster of core members well ahead of when the manga did (at least proportionally) as well as added to the tension by having several side characters actually get to have their nefarious nonsense done in parallel to the wait as opposed to retroactive scenes.

Naruto/Bleach absolutely destroyed people's ability to gauge the worth of filler.
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Nah. It's like Game of Thrones. Since the books will never be completed, the show becomes the definitive adaptation and the books are basically the filler.
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ellis123 posted...
You are basically hitting the reason why people who carpet bate filler are full of it. Like in HxH there is a lengthy scene early on that was added strictly to fill in a spot that the manga skipped over (they were stuck in a room). The anime took the time to flesh out the roster of core members well ahead of when the manga did (at least proportionally) as well as added to the tension by having several side characters actually get to have their nefarious nonsense done in parallel to the wait as opposed to retroactive scenes.

that sounds neat, obviously i've never watched that series but sounds like that changed stuff for the better, probably even strengthened canon relationships/characteristics versus overlooking it

lilORANG posted...
Nah. It's like Game of Thrones. Since the books will never be completed, the show becomes the definitive adaptation and the books are basically the filler.

hey i'm down with that, never watched game of thrones btw lol
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New Bleach has filler because the author was having health issues at the time and rushed a lot if things. Everything has been better because of it.
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EmilyWillis posted...
that sounds neat, obviously i've never watched that series but sounds like that changed stuff for the better, probably even strengthened canon relationships/characteristics versus overlooking it
Correct. Most of the filler is stuff that I didn't even know was filler until it was pointed out. Like, it's wild to me that some people moaned about the filler when it was the only way you even knew wtf was going on in some scenes (such as one later on when they are buying stuff from a market -> becoming friends with someone who it is critical that they become friends with... Which is effectively "Okay, we're friends now let's go" in canon by comparison).

FMA is another example of this, in particular the Nina content. In the original/brotherhood it is mostly a non-thing (like I think you only meet Nina twice in Brotherhood, IIRC) while in the original anime it gets a full episode + some lead up.
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EmilyWillis posted...
would said situation still be considered yucky non-canon filler moment 62?
I don't think so. I think a situation like that would be regarded as canon or "corrected canon." It's kind of like how The Walking Dead show was created by the guys who made the comics, and there were a bunch of tweaks and changes made to certain events and characters, but the show is still its own canon, as it was largely made by the original artists.
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Jiek_Fafn posted...
New Bleach has filler because the author was having health issues at the time and rushed a lot if things. Everything has been better because of it.
The new anime?

There's no filler. Only new canon content.
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lilORANG posted...
Nah. It's like Game of Thrones. Since the books will never be completed, the show becomes the definitive adaptation and the books are basically the filler.
Lol no. That pile of shit dumpster fire will never be canon. Doesnt matter if canon is never complete. Canon is canon.
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If it wasn't in the manga, then by definition, it is filler.

Hell, even "Christmas special" issues of the manga i would say is filler.

Hell, manga-side arcs with no relevance to the main plotline (episodic adventures) are probably filler.

Fuck man all of Inuyasha, manga included, except for like 10 issues is probably filler.
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Quality is important.

Naruto had pretty notorious quality. In which I mean repetitive and often mediocre at best, aside from some short/episodic good ones.

Bleach was an outsider in that it actually had pretty good filler arcs, thanks in part due to it basically having "whatever the writer wants for power levels" to begin with.

I will stand by that the first Hunter x Hunter anime had some of the best filler though. It was, with exception of maybe the battleship one, pretty much seemlessly integrated into a canon arc, to the point where you would not think it is filler unless you read the manga. Like, it is even better overall than things like Piccolo and Goku needing to learn to drive, even if less funny.

And to bring us around to Naruto again, yes, the Kakashi's mask episode is good filler.

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Current Events » so anime filler is filler no matter what? even if author signs off on it?