It seems like an increasing number of people believe 9/11 was an inside job?

MICHALECOLE posted...

Gradieus posted...

The thing about Trump is that if there was aliens or 9/11 was an inside job, he would have blurted it out already.

Okay joe rogan

well he probably would have

he did blurt out the epstien sex ring years ago, after all

Revocation68 posted...

If you have such a compelling argument then simply tell me how 911 played out. Are the planes real? Did they have people inside them? How would they cover up deaths if no people on the plane etc

The whole thing happened as told. Some people crashed planes into the towers killing thousands.

The conspiracy is that the global elite planned and allowed it happen to further chaos, war and political agenda in order to amass more wealth and power from everyday people.

It's really odd to me how angry and defensive people get toward people just considering conspiracy theories. It's like some weird superiority complex... "lol I'm so smart, I've never believed in ANY conspiracy theories. And I read a paragraph on snopes debunking it dummy LOL!" Then when you point out ones that have been proven true and have wikipedia articles... "lol that's not the same. That couldn't happen now."

SunWuKung420 posted...

The conspiracy is that the global elite planned and allowed it happen to further chaos, war and political agenda in order to amass more wealth and power from everyday people.

And they accuse us of a lack of critical thinking when they seem to only be able to consider one distinct possibility. The elite play chess not checkers. They know most of the public doesnt see beyond checkers

Its like they believe it's impossible that the government considers human lives disposable to further their agenda despite pointless wars to prove it

it was 100% Israel

OhhhJa posted...

It's really odd to me how angry and defensive people get toward people just considering conspiracy theories. It's like some weird superiority complex... "lol I'm so smart, I've never believed in ANY conspiracy theories. And I read a paragraph on snopes debunking it dummy LOL!" Then when you point out ones that have been proven true and have wikipedia articles... "lol that's not the same. That couldn't happen now."

the general public are complacent idiots that never question anything outside of their little bubbles.

OhhhJa posted...

It's really odd to me how angry and defensive people get toward people just considering conspiracy theories

Thank you. It's a pathetic auto-defense trigger.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

OhhhJa posted...

It's really odd to me how angry and defensive people get toward people just considering conspiracy theories. It's like some weird superiority complex... "lol I'm so smart, I've never believed in ANY conspiracy theories. And I read a paragraph on snopes debunking it dummy LOL!" Then when you point out ones that have been proven true and have wikipedia articles... "lol that's not the same. That couldn't happen now."

the general public are complacent idiots that never question anything outside of their little bubbles.

Their logic is basically always, "I know those were all lies but this time it's true." Wveryone knows the WMDs and kids in incubators in iraq were lies but for some reason think it's ridiculous to question this 9/11 at all

RedPixel posted...

OhhhJa posted...

It's really odd to me how angry and defensive people get toward people just considering conspiracy theories

Thank you. It's a pathetic auto-defense trigger.

I attribute to decades of government and media rhetoric aimed at discrediting/making a mockery of anyone who questions the official narrative.

I like conspiracy theories.

SunWuKung420 posted...

Revocation68 posted...

If you have such a compelling argument then simply tell me how 911 played out. Are the planes real? Did they have people inside them? How would they cover up deaths if no people on the plane etc

The whole thing happened as told. Some people crashed planes into the towers killing thousands.

The conspiracy is that the global elite planned and allowed it happen to further chaos, war and political agenda in order to amass more wealth and power from everyday people.

Sleeping on intel is one thing, but then you have the people saying bombs were planted in the towers and went off at certain times etc

the people who think that bombs were planted are also dumb

OhhhJa posted...

I'd rather be skeptical and be wrong than lap up stuff like the epstein case being merely a suicide and be wrong.

It sounds more like paranoid. People believe retain things, and dont believe other. People are usually all in or out. Id rather not be skeptical of everything and not enjoy life because I cant live in peace, tbh...

OhhhJa posted...

I find it more sad how people are so adamantly anti conspiracy in spite of mountains of evidence throughout history suggesting that the truth is VERY often not what's presented to the public by the government

I fine the opposite more sad, honestly. Some people are so pro-conspiracy they cant believe anything. And think the government is behind it all. The government isnt really good. But I dont think that always means their the evil mastermind everyone pretends they are. Its like Red herring on Scooby-Doo. Free always accused him and he wasnt the culprit. He was once, and it was the time he didnt accuse him. When I think of people who believe in every conspiracy theory, this is what I think of.

RedPixel posted...

OhhhJa posted...

It's really odd to me how angry and defensive people get toward people just considering conspiracy theories

Thank you. It's a pathetic auto-defense trigger.

No. Its because we dont believe everything everyone is always spewing out. Especially when other experts go against what they say. And then you have people like you who claim stuff like it was a missile that hit the Pentagon. So then, where are the people that were suppose to be on the plane? Did they not exist? Did my cousin and her friends also not exist? What about everyone who lost family members on the plane.

Which actually might be the reason you got modded last time, not that I think about it...

Honestly, you can turn your own words back onto you. Maybe you guys are so scared of terrorist, that your defense mechanism is to blame the government instead of believing that terrorist are out there trying to kill people...

OhhhJa posted...

It's like some weird superiority complex... "lol I'm so smart, I've never believed in ANY conspiracy theories. And I read a paragraph on snopes debunking it dummy LOL!" Then when you point out ones that have been proven true and have wikipedia articles... "lol that's not the same. That couldn't happen now."

Again, usually people believe certain things and dont believe others. And I seen enough debunked as just a conspiracy where the theorist then change everything because they cant be wrong. Even when all the evidence is against them. And all their irrefutable evidence was refuted...

LinkPizza posted...

It sounds more like paranoid. People believe retain things, and dont believe other. People are usually all in or out. Id rather not be skeptical of everything and not enjoy life because I cant live in peace, tbh...

I dont understand this logic tbh. I can be skeptical without dwelling on this 24/7. As a matter of fact, I will probably just move on with my life tonight without further thought

LinkPizza posted...

I fine the opposite more sad, honestly. Some people are so pro-conspiracy they cant believe anything. And think the government is behind it all.

Key words. Some people. Many people can be skeptical of something without being the paranoid schizophrenic trope you are presenting. It's kind of a strawman tbh. For instance, I dont believe the earth is flat or that the moon landing was fake

LinkPizza posted...

The government isnt really good. But I dont think that always means their the evil mastermind everyone pretends they are.

They really are though unless you believe orchestrated genocide isnt bad which would be a big yikes

LinkPizza posted...

So then, where are the people thelatbwere suppose to be on the plane? Did they not exist? Did my cousin and her friends also not exist? What about everyone who lost family members on the plane.

Ah this has already been addressed. Most skeptics arent saying that at all lol. We're saying the government has no problem killing civilians as means to an end... citation: any war

You're just trying to make the skepticism look more ridiculous than it is by making a strawman

LinkPizza posted...

Honestly, you can turn your own words back onto you. Maybe you guys are so scared of terrorist, that your defense mechanism is to blame the government instead of believing that terrorist are out there trying to kill people...

More strawmen. Thus proving my point about people being weirdly angry toward government skeptics

It's also kind of xenophobic to me that people seem to believe this could only be the work of foreign arab terrorists. American government couldn't possibly be perpetrators of an atrocity right?

I just think there's a certain point where you have to exercise common sense and accept that it's the convoluted conspiracy theories that are the more implausible. No one's ever been able to explain to me convincingly why the Bush administration would need to go to the lengths claimed by the conspiracy fantasists (and run the colossal risks of being exposed and lynched in the street; no "vast, secret government plot" is ever watertight).

"Bush did it so he could go to war with Iraq!" Oh, right. Sure. Because in the seventy-odd years since the end of World War II, Uncle Sam has never gone to war in another country unless thousands of US citizens have been killed. Hollow bloody laughter.

If Bush needed to engineer a pretext, I don't suppose it could be a simpler one that wouldn't kill thousands of his fellow countrymen, wouldn't leave forensic evidence and hundreds of accomplices and eyewitnesses behind who could make everything unravel, and wouldn't risk leaving his administration open to charges that it was utterly incompetent for letting this happen on his watch? I mean, couldn't he have staging a faked Tonkin Gulf-type incident in the Middle East, safely far enough away from nosy investigative reporters instead of in the heart of New York City?

Nope, apparently not. Strangely, none of the evil geniuses that Bush is supposed to have surrounded himself with were shrewd enough to point to this much lower-risk strategy. Instead, it had to be one huge David Copperfield illusion in NYC that used demolition charges, missiles, a fake hijacking, Saudi passports (surely a curious oversight there, if you're inventing fictitious Iraqi hijackers), fake phone calls from passengers -- the works. Nothing less would do.

If it's a choice of the accepted explanation or wacky Internet speculation, I know which one requires far greater suspension of disbelief. There's being open minded, and then there's being so open minded your brain actually falls out of your fucking head.

If hundreds of thousands of other Americans really "know for sure" that the United States government, in the shape of George W. Bush's administration, deliberately and cold-bloodedly murdered thousands of American citizens in New York City on September 11, 2001, then why the hell aren't they all out there in the hills taking part in an insurgency against it? Is it because all this paranoid conspiracy fantasy bullshit is just a stupid but fun Internet parlor game that, in truth, no one genuinely believes?

Seems to me that if you're completely convinced that your own government did this, that it's still lying about it, that the men behind it are still in positions of authority (or have at least managed to perpetrate the worst crime in modern American history with total impunity) -- then you would surely be marching in the streets demanding justice. You'd be living in constant fear of your own government and be preparing armed resistance before it does something similar again. That's what actually happens in countries where governments commit mass atrocities against their own people. This is the kind of thing that triggers a civil war. But you're not; none of the so-called Truthers are doing any of this. Why not? Apathy? Lack of conviction?

OhhhJa posted...

It's also kind of xenophobic to me that people seem to believe this could only be the work of foreign arab terrorists. American government couldn't possibly be perpetrators of an atrocity right?

It seems kind of xenophobic to me to believe that only a vast US government conspiracy could successfully engineer an operation on this scale and to refuse to accept that "mere" foreign Arab terrorists might be capable of planning, organizing and executing it. I suppose it's probably more disturbing to believe that a dozen guys armed with box cutters could kill thousands of Americans.

Firewerx posted...

It seems kind of xenophobic to me to believe that only a vast US government conspiracy could successfully engineer an operation on this scale and to refuse to accept that "mere" foreign Arab terrorists might be capable of planning, organizing and executing it. I suppose it's probably more disturbing to believe that a dozen guys armed with box cutters could kill thousands of Americans.

Seems like you're really reaching to make an argument for xenophobia on my part imo. And I'm not even arguing that arabs weren't involved in the plot. In fact, the opposite. I'm arguing that we worked with saudis. Hence, why we invade countries over much lesser offenses (like we threatened recently with iran) but for some reason still are buddy buddy with Saudi Arabia after fucking 9/11. How do people not think that's a little suspicious?

Firewerx posted...

"Bush did it so he could go to war with Iraq!" Oh, right. Sure. Because in the seventy-odd years since the end of World War II, Uncle Sam has never gone to war in another country unless thousands of US citizens have been killed. Hollow bloody laughter.

Because that invasion wasnt just about iraq. It led to everything we're seeing now. Iraq, Afghanistan, syria, yemen, the list goes on. They needed massive public support for that. There is a lasting hatred of middle eastern arabs now from many Americans because of 9/11. Remember all the flags flying in people's yards after 9/11? Every conflict currently going on in the middle east is because of that initial invasion. We've created the power vacuums. It's all a calculated destabilization of that entire region

OhhhJa posted...

I dont understand this logic tbh. I can be skeptical without dwelling on this 24/7. As a matter of fact, I will probably just move on with my life tonight without further thought

Maybe not you. But I know people who are into so many theories that they seem like they cant enjoy life or even a day out because of their theories. And it can really kill the mood...

OhhhJa posted...

Key words. Some people. Many people can be skeptical of something without being the paranoid schizophrenic trope you are presenting. It's kind of a strawman tbh. For instance, I dont believe the earth is flat or that the moon landing was fake

And I didnt say everybody. Yet, you seem to act like everybody on here that doesnt agree with this conspiracy is against all of them. Which might not be true...

OhhhJa posted...

They really are though unless you believe orchestrated genocide isnt bad which would be a big yikes

If youre talking about this conspiracy theory, than that doesnt work as I dont believe in this, meaning I dont believe in the orchestrated genocide youre talking about. If its not this, then it depends on what youre talking about. Depending on how long ago something was, the government could have different people running certain things who do things differently. Why blame the son for the sins of their father, as they say...

OhhhJa posted...

Ah this has already been addressed. Most skeptics arent saying that at all lol. We're saying the government has no problem killing civilians as means to an end... citation: any war

You're just trying to make the skepticism look more ridiculous than it is by making a strawman

No. Maybe if you payed attention to who I quoted, youll see that it was Red. Who seemed to strongly hint that it was missile and not a plane. Thats basically why I quoted him when I said that...

OhhhJa posted...

More strawmen. Thus proving my point about people being weirdly angry toward government skeptics

No. Im just showing you how the same thing can be said about the other side. You may not want to believe it. I dont really care if you do. But its true. It works for both both sides...

Haven't done any research but I suspect air force shot down flight 93.

And maybe 1993 WTC bombing was attempted again in the basement of WT7.

I got interested in Operation Northwoods with TC mentioning it, and I think the people really have blown it out of proportion.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63543664

Look at the final post.
Seems like people mistakenly thought the government wanted to attack American citizens when in reality they just wanted to fake an attack on civilians to make people believe a terrorist attack happened. Nobody would have actually been killed.

Ferarri619 posted...

I got interested in Operation Northwoods with TC mentioning it, and I think the people really have blown it out of proportion.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63543664

Look at the final post.
Seems like people mistakenly thought the government wanted to attack American citizens when in reality they just wanted to fake an attack on civilians to make people believe a terrorist attack happened. Nobody would have actually been killed.

Completely inaccurate. You researched it through gamefaqs? Lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

I wouldn't be surprised if an increasing number of people believe 9/11 was an inside job - the massive negative signal-to-noise ratio on the Internet has encouraged people in general to believe incredibly stupid and batshit crazy things, and to generally react to pretty much everything with immediate outrage and passion rather than applying either a shred of logic, rationality, or - God forbid - anything resembling actual research or investigation.

"Someone shouted something really, really loudly - that's good enough for me! Time to continue believing it for the rest of my life no matter what contrary evidence people might try to present to me, all while calling anyone who disagrees "sheeple" or "NPCs" so I can feel better about how plugged in and informed I am! Whee!"



NeoSioType posted...

Haven't done any research but I suspect air force shot down flight 93.

I suspected this at the time and still do - it's about the only "conspiracy theory" involving 9/11 that actually makes sense.

The government already knew what was happening at that point, and had fighters in the air, and the plane was conveniently over a large open area where crashing would minimize damage (as opposed to whatever damage the plane would cause whenever it hit whatever its eventual target would be). In fact, the VP had already authorized interception and take-down, with the official story being that the plane crashed before the fighters could get to it.

It's entirely possible that the passengers' attempt to gain control of the plane did result in the crash. It's also possible it was shot down and the government just happened to massively luck out with the fact that the passengers were already fighting back so it could be blamed on them if a well-placed missile or two took it down.

The only real flaw with that theory is that literally no one involved has ever come forward to admit to it. Conspiracy theorists love the idea that massive conspiracies can keep every member silent, and everyone involved can either be kept quiet through money, fear, or just by killing anyone who plans to talk, but that's generally pretty far-fetched - the more people who know something happened, the more likely one of those people are to openly admit to that thing happening at some point. "Three can keep a secret if two are dead" is usually more of a truism than "Every single person involved in something horrific can keep their mouths shut for decades afterward and never leak a single word or let their guilty consciences force them into an open confession."

Which isn't to say that a couple fighter pilots won't eventually reveal in another decade or two that they or their wingmates shot it down, but at the moment there really isn't all that much to hang it on.

OhhhJa posted...

Completely inaccurate. You researched it through gamefaqs? Lol

Wikipedia seems to have a really misleading article on it.
Did you read the actual Project Northwoods document?

I like to look at who has what to gain with these events. And looking at this from a neutral perspective, I see nothing that a middle eastern Arab nation or terrorist group would have to gain from this event. Massive destabilization, US occupation, hiding in caves hoping not be killed by the US military? Sounds awesome! What the US had to gain? Well, I think that should be pretty self evident at this point

OhhhJa posted...

I like to look at who has what to gain with these events. And looking at this from a neutral perspective, I see nothing that a middle eastern Arab nation or terrorist group would have to gain from this event. Massive destabilization, US occupation, hiding in caves hoping not be killed by the US military? Sounds awesome! What the US had to gain? Well, I think that should be pretty self evident at this point

You're also looking at the situation with perfect hindsight, which sort of shits on the entirety of your conclusion.

OhhhJa posted...

Because that invasion wasnt just about iraq. It led to everything we're seeing now. Iraq, Afghanistan, syria, yemen, the list goes on. They needed massive public support for that.

That logic only works if you fantasize that there was some over-arching, far-sighted, unified strategic masterplan in 2001 to force US military intervention in every one of those states -- instead of US foreign policy being improvised by different administrations in response to local developments that did not unfold in the region until ten years after 9/11.

You can't draw a short, straight line between a 9/11 conspiracy and the civil wars in Syria or Yemen, and it's far-fetched to the point of absurdity to suggest that public support was being carefully engineered in 2001 to back Uncle Sam's taking sides over Yemen after 2015.

The only "massive public support" needed in 2001-2003 was for action in Afghanistan and Iraq. When it came to Iraq, the case for war was built on allegations of weapons of mass destruction rather than 9/11; and by 2009, the American public's appetite for continued involvement had largely evaporated. Yet widespread disillusionment over failures in Iraq did not prevent the White House from later taking interventionist standpoints over Libya or Syria -- which knocks a dent in the idea that "massive public support" is always necessary for such foreign policy adventures.

But again, my point: there was public support for Uncle Sam's invasions of Grenada, Panama, and Kuwait -- none of which actually required a single American civilian to die for the public to give their support, again and again and again . The idea that the American public could only be pushed into backing for major military action by crashing planes into the World Trade Center is arrant nonsense that spits in the face of history and common sense.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

You're also looking at the situation with perfect hindsight

And with no understanding of Islamist eschatology and concepts of martyrdom. It's like he can't even conceive of religious fundamentalists being motivated by faith, by the desire to force a cataclysmic showdown between the forces of good and evil. He must be baffled over what jihadi suicide bombers have to "gain from" blowing themselves up.

Firewerx posted...

The idea that the American public could only be pushed into backing for major military action by crashing planes into the World Trade Center is arrant nonsense that spits in the face of history and common sense.

There was actually a rising tide pushing for intervention in Afghanistan for years prior to 9/11 - there was a grass-roots information campaign online outlining the various things the Taliban did on a regular basis (usually tied to anti-women civil rights violations). Back in the days when people actually used to take chain mails more seriously, that was one of the ones that got sent around a lot. And I actually remember seeing protests against the Taliban (along with ones against China over the Falun Gong situation) in NYC years before.

In addition, the only place the US had a vested interest in intervening in at all was Iraq (because oil), and we essentially already HAD a mandate to intervene there if we wanted to due to the lingering issues from the Gulf War, and events like the Cole bombing and the 1998 embassy bombings providing easy pretext (which we explicitly DIDN'T take advantage of). We've started major wars over way less.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

You're also looking at the situation with perfect hindsight, which sort of s***s on the entirety of your conclusion.

I dont think they needed foresight to know what establishing a power vacuum would do tbh

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Firewerx posted...

The idea that the American public could only be pushed into backing for major military action by crashing planes into the World Trade Center is arrant nonsense that spits in the face of history and common sense.

There was actually a rising tide pushing for intervention in Afghanistan for years prior to 9/11 - there was a grass-roots information campaign online outlining the various things the Taliban did on a regular basis (usually tied to anti-women civil rights violations). Back in the days when people actually used to take chain mails more seriously, that was one of the ones that got sent around a lot. And I actually remember seeing protests against the Taliban (along with ones against China over the Falun Gong situation) in NYC years before.

In addition, the only place the US had a vested interest in intervening in at all was Iraq (because oil), and we essentially already HAD a mandate to intervene there if we wanted to due to the lingering issues from the Gulf War, and events like the Cole bombing and the 1998 embassy bombings providing easy pretext (which we explicitly DIDN'T take advantage of). We've started major wars over way less.

Poppy fields in Afghanistan my dude

Capitalist want access to unused resources in most war-torn countries.

Honestly the people who disregard the idea for no reason other than "it's ridiculous!" are worse than the worst tin foil hatters, regardless of the actual "Truth".

9/11 happens followed by almost 2 decades of middle east occupation directly as a result

General public: "Ridiculous to think the US would do this to itself!"

Do people believe the US actually invaded and keep shifting the goalposts into other countries for humanitarian reasons? Because THAT would be ridiculous

Dreaming_King posted...

Honestly the people who disregard the idea for no reason other than "it's ridiculous!" are worse than the worst tin foil hatters, regardless of the actual "Truth".

I see logic has evolved on this board in the past few years. Honestly, this.

RedPixel posted...

Dreaming_King posted...

Honestly the people who disregard the idea for no reason other than "it's ridiculous!" are worse than the worst tin foil hatters, regardless of the actual "Truth".

I see logic has evolved on this board in the past few years. Honestly, this.

There's a large difference between accepting everything you're told and seeking the truth.

RedPixel posted...

Dreaming_King posted...

Honestly the people who disregard the idea for no reason other than "it's ridiculous!" are worse than the worst tin foil hatters, regardless of the actual "Truth".

I see logic has evolved on this board in the past few years. Honestly, this.

When you're agreeing with Dreaming King on more or less any subject, you're pretty much on the wrong side of history.

Dreaming_King posted...

Honestly the people who disregard the idea for no reason other than "it's ridiculous!" are worse than the worst tin foil hatters, regardless of the actual "Truth".

I feel the same way about people who disregard flying spaghetti monsters for no other reason than "it's ridiculous"

The way I look at it is that it was such a poor move from Al-Qaeda that Americans started wondering if the US planned it.

"Yes, let's give the overseas war-hungry multi trillion dollar military US an excuse to bomb the entire region for the next 20 years!"

It's pretty much in line with what a leaderless terrorist group would do though. The US is only ok with killing thousands of civilians if they don't have to get their country's vote afterward.

Rex_Banner posted...

Dreaming_King posted...

Honestly the people who disregard the idea for no reason other than "it's ridiculous!" are worse than the worst tin foil hatters, regardless of the actual "Truth".

I feel the same way about people who disregard flying spaghetti monsters for no other reason than "it's ridiculous"

Well, there's no reason to even consider the possibility of a flying spaghetti monster. There is however reason to be suspicious of the fact that the terrorists involved in 9/11 were mostly our old good buddies over in Saudi Arabia and after they took out a few very important US buildings we respond by invading Iraq