Board 8 > Magic the Gathering: Crimson Vow of the Neon Dynasty

(+) Yeah! (+)

pyresword posted...

I've been trying Seth Manfield's Hullbreaker Horror deck and this is so much more rude of a card than I thought it would be from looking at it. Think I'm on the bandwagon now of this being the better wincon than Galvanic Iteration+Epiphany

It does seem to be overall better, and in fact its able to kick turns decks square in the soft and tenders.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Heres a lesson in hubris and reading the cards.

Early ggers/gloaters are the worst

Had a similar experience yesterday against mono white while playing dimir zombies

They outnumbered my board, exiled my important stuff, and were spamming the blood gg emote

Luckily, they were bad and didn't attack with enough. They also didn't play around meathook massacre. I was eventually able to bring the game back to qualify for mythic, and of course they roped

The worst is when they float while having an 85% win chance. It's correct to stay in the game, but it's not fun to be berated and end up losing

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

It does seem to be overall better, and in fact its able to kick turns decks square in the soft and tenders.

It just feels so slow comparatively, and has real "shields down" moments.

With alrund's, with 7 mana you can set things up such that your opponent will never get to act again (epiphany -> untap -> duplicate a second epiphany -> whatever bs you draw over 2 more turns -> win)

With a 7 mana hullbreaker, if your opponent has removal your win con fizzles

It also can't do anything about menace or flying lands, which allowed me to squeak out a win yesterday

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The Secret Lair commander deck is kinda neat.

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banananor posted...

With a 7 mana hullbreaker, if your opponent has removal your win con fizzles

Yeah this is true. When I originally said that I was thinking of a control mirror, since I didn't think Horror would beat Epiphany in a direct matchup during spoiler season (it does seem to). The Horror can be hit with like Power Word Kill, etc, though you can also protect it by waiting until turn 8 and playing it with any 1 mana instant up.

I do think this is sort of what the meta needs though--something that can tackle Epiphany head-to-head which is also at least in theory easier than the rest of the field to interact with.

If they untap with the Horror in play though there's a good chance you aren't getting to play the game at all anymore though unless it's literally the only card in their hand or you already have an overwhelming board state where they can't bounce everything.

Edit: All this said, if I play in an event this weekend I'm still probably going to take mono-white, for the record.
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"Dies to removal" is a well known bad argument in magic, perhaps even the worst one. I mean, let's throw that back. With a 7 mana epiphany, if your opponent has a counterspell your win con fizzles. The argument may as well be "unless you punch your opponent in the throat, they get to keep playing against you." Yes, you still have to protect it, but boy oh boy does it do a good job of protecting itself as long as you have instants and open mana.

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today I learned about the list of public redeemable promo codes that I'm sure most of you in this thread already used but if anyone else like me didn't know, or was under a rock at the time

https://mtgazone.com/codes/

looking forward to cracking open 30+ new packs today, ha

I have most of those, but COURIERBAT was new to me. Thanks!

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

"Dies to removal" is a well known bad argument in magic, perhaps even the worst one. I mean, let's throw that back. With a 7 mana epiphany, if your opponent has a counterspell your win con fizzles. The argument may as well be "unless you punch your opponent in the throat, they get to keep playing against you." Yes, you still have to protect it, but boy oh boy does it do a good job of protecting itself as long as you have instants and open mana.

You're right. I think it's kind of a rock paper scissors scenario, and I'm looking at it from a non-blue perspective where a kraken feels beatable, but a galvanic iteration into epiphany does not

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Well I mean "dies to removal" is absolutely a weakness Hullbreaker Horror has which Epiphany doesn't. I don't currently think it's enough of a weakness to merit not running Horror, but it is definitely a thing that matters.
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I currently have a draft deck that can cast Ghastly Mimicry on Avabruck Caretaker and that just seems like a totally normal and fair thing to be doing in limited honestly.
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It's things like that that make me hate bomb-heavy draft formats. Sure, you're not likely to even hear of someone else getting that specific combo, but obviously it happens. Where's the fun in a format where either you open something ridiculous or you barely squeak out a 3-3? I guess if you get those ridiculous packs and you like picking on people for only having fair cards, but even that would get old fast wouldn't it? I just can't imagine getting a great card pack one and then opening pack two and seeing a card that says "congrats, you get a 7-X even if you're the worst player of the day."

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I honestly don't think this set is any different than any others as far as bombs go, which is to say that I agree with you on this set but think that Limited in general is trash from a competitive standpoint and that all Draft formats are obnoxiously bomb-heavy >.>

Like to me Limited is the equivalent of items-on Super Smash Bros.
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the most fucked up bomb is the demon that makes copies of itself at the end step

unless you have immediate instant removal its just gonna go off

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There's variance on bomb heaviness for sure. It's not there's any set with no bombs, but some sets give you better tools to deal with them or even keep the bomb count low enough that you can still remain relatively competitive without them. Amonkhet Remastered and Theros Beyond Death were both sets that I regularly went positive on with no rares at all. Sure, TBD has some pretty gross bombs like Kiora Bests the Sea God and Dream Trawler, but most of the rares are pretty fair cards like Eat to Extinction or The Akroan War.

I don't mind taking a loss to the one-off Dream Trawler, I do mind when every other person you play opened bomb rares and you just can't win. Almost every game I lost, the opponent had some rare that just took over the game. If there was more quality removal that might help, if there were fewer ways to get your bomb rares back that might also help. As it is, though, so many rares can just get out of hand because the format is built to allow it.

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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/unfinity-and-beyond-2021-11-29

Damn, those lands are awesome.

Using the hologram to denote legality is an interesting change too, I think I rather have the border though.

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Avabruck Caretaker having hexproof is just gross and unnecessary.

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BlackDra90n posted...

Damn, those lands are awesome.

Using the hologram to denote legality is an interesting change too, I think I rather have the border though.

agreed. i think they just want to make sure commander players buy the set, and the social stigma against the silver border is too strong

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redrocket posted...

Avabruck Caretaker having hexproof is just gross and unnecessary.

yeah, i was looking up some analysis and she is the strongest limited bomb in the set

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redrocket posted...

Avabruck Caretaker having hexproof is just gross and unnecessary.

The transformed effect is just wild

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The silver border change is so dumb. The acorn stamp is tiny and barely noticeable, which is gonna cause a lot of problems/annoyance.

I hate that they're cramming in printed-for-commander cards everywhere.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

I refuse to read that goofs writing. Whats this about holograms now?

Just talks about the new Un set and some of the mechanics and design decisions. The holograms I was talking about is just the removal of "silver border" and having an acorn as the stamp/hologram instead. Just scroll down to the pictures if you don't want to read.

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Yeah, every set is a commander set now and it's dumb. The format did just fine without Wizards targeting it, and it may just out live WotC since people would keep playing it even if another Magic card never got printed. Silver boarders were just so much better and easier for identifying those cards that don't belong in the game and I'm guessing there will be some issues that stem from this change.

Those full art lands, however, fucking magnificent.

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Ready to throw down $300 on a play set of those godless shrines

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It's odd that we got previews for the Un set before seeing any Kamigawa cards.

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Just saw the announcement on the Alchemy format. I'm not too keen on digital only formats, but the monthly rebalancing and new cards between each standard set will make it tempting to look into. Because of how fast people figure out the meta on Arena it's going to be the only way to really keep things feeling fresh.

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Honestly there is basically no way I see this going well. Alchemy is just going to be Standard with different problems, not Standard without problems. And in the meantime this is going to lead to lots of confusion, create a probably significant divide in the community, and make Historic even more of a wildcard scam than it already was.
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pyresword posted...

Honestly there is basically no way I see this going well. Alchemy is just going to be Standard with different problems, not Standard without problems. And in the meantime this is going to lead to lots of confusion, create a probably significant divide in the community, and make Historic even more of a wildcard scam than it already was.

None of these things is a problem tbh. If you have the player base large enough to support multiple formats, adding formats doesnt hurt anyone and makes it more likely a deck you are interested in is playable

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Alchemy is definitely not what Im looking for in regards to digital Magic, but hopefully it ends up being good for the players who are into it.


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I mean the reason I play Magic is because it has an active competitive community behind it, so things that undermine the strength of that community do in fact hurt me.

I'm not completely certain the introduction of Alchemy will lead to the things I said, but it is a fact that if those things do happen they will hurt me and others who feel similarly to me.
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What do you mean by Historic being a wild card scam?

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The balance changes they're making to cards in Alchemy also affect the cards in Historic. The format is already hard to get into because any viable deck is very heavy on wild cards with little ability to get the cards some other way, and now you also run the risk of them nerfing the key rare card you had to craft 4 of a week later, making all the wild cards you spent worthless.

For Standard you can opt out by just playing Standard instead of Alchemy, but if you're a fan of Historic you're stuck with having to deal with this.

I don't think it's going to kill the format or anything even for people who are extremely opposed to the idea of nerfs, etc, but I'd certainly rather they had made like a Historic Alchemy format or something.
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I thought Historic was ok but it's been sliding downhill pretty quick for me with all the digital only mechanics and now with Alchemy in the mix I think it's gonna be less and less fun.

At least Limited will still be Limited.

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In general Im really not interested in them doing these digital only cards

But I am sort of into the land that comes in untapped if you didnt go first. You could probably just bring that mechanic to paper magic.

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Yeah, I don't see why that land couldn't be in paper. There may be some changes needed for the rules, but it's not like they don't do that regularly.

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