Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 362: Now With Diet Coke Button

(+) Yeah! (+)

red13n posted...

You need to primary the establishment. Not push third parties that are never going to have a snowball chance in hell of doing anything.

Or establish ranked choice first. Until then 3rd parties are just proven toxic.

Well you got mad at me without knowing what state I live in, when it's entirely possible I could have been in the state with ranked choice voting. I'm not, but you didn't know that.

FFDragon posted...

and the party that stormed the capitol isn't toxic?

That kind of is the point.

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fuming posted...

Well you got mad at me without knowing what state I live in, when it's entirely possible I could have been in the state with ranked choice voting. I'm not, but you didn't know that.

You would have had multiple votes in that case.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

People here keep defending him. People kept getting annoyed and insisting he wasn't so bad, only voted with Rs in votes where it didn't matter, and would side with Dems when it mattered.

I want those people to admit they were wrong.

I'm pretty sure the usual claim is "Machin is slightly better than a WV Republican", which is true (but doesn't mean much).

That said, Machin deciding to just let the GOP keep control of committees is awful. I don't even think he gains anything from it; even if he doesn't retire, his reelection chances look pretty bad right now. Is he actually delusional enough to think the GOP wants to work with the Dems?
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StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah I'd like to know who "keeps defending" Manchin because I haven't seen it

He might be talking about me?

But my argument has never been "Manchin is good!" but "Manchin is important because he is a democratic senator from the second reddest state in the country". He's not a good senator by metrics, but his Trump score was the second lowest outside of Sherrod Brown who is just magic and you aren't getting a better senator from WV because it is a garbage state. Our goal needs to be where Manchin isn't the 50th senator because we all know what he is.

Although Manchin gets us chair of the senate budget committee Bernie Sanders and is honestly worth it for that alone, imo. So like...I'm not defending Manchin in a vacuum. But running him out of office gets us nothing. Ire needs to directed at people like Feinstein who is as useless as Manchin on a lot of issues but from fucking California. Pretty sure Feinstein is against blowing up the filibuster too. As is Sinema, who is also from a bluer state. There was like a list of seven I saw earlier today and Manchin was the least of my concerns from them.

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Xeybozn posted...

I'm pretty sure the usual claim is "Machin is slightly better than a WV Republican", which is true (but doesn't mean much).

That said, Machin deciding to just let the GOP keep control of committees is awful. I don't even think he gains anything from it; even if he doesn't retire, his reelection chances look pretty bad right now. Is he actually delusional enough to think the GOP wants to work with the Dems?

Manchin won in 2018 with Trump campaigning against him and against a strong candidate. I don't think his election chances are all that bad, but it requires him to routinely have bad positions otherwise he isn't going to be popular in WV.

We need PA in 2022 desperately.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Although Manchin gets us chair of the senate budget committee Bernie Sanders

Well no, letting Dems take committee chairs is exactly what he is refusing to help with right now.

Suprak the Stud posted...

Manchin won in 2018 with Trump campaigning against him and against a strong candidate.

Alternatively, Manchin only just barely won in a massive Democratic wave year, which 2024 probably won't be.
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Xeybozn posted...

Well no, letting Dems take committee chairs is exactly what he is refusing to help with right now.

Alternatively, Manchin only just barely won in a massive Democratic wave year, which 2024 probably won't be.

I mean, yes, Bernie Sanders is the chair of the budget committee.

And I know I've posted stuff like this before, but I have far less annoyance for Joe Manchin than I do people like Feinstein and Warner:
https://newrepublic.com/article/161013/dont-worry-joe-manchin

Again, it isn't that Manchin is good. But graded on the "whoever the hell WV is going to send to the senate" curve, we could do significantly worse. And unlike someone like Doug Jones, Manchin's career isn't necessarily over in 2024. I wouldn't say he's safe but he at least has a chance which Doug Jones never did. I will not defend Manchin's actions on...like anything. I just think our energy is better spent toppling senators from states we can get better senators from.

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Like I ask myself:
Is the senate better or worse for Manchin beating his democratic challenger in the 2018 primary? Better.
Is the senate better or worse for Feinstein (and others) beating their democratic challenger in the 2018 primary? Worse.

I'm more concerned getting the latter group out of the senate. Those shitty corporate democrats from safe states that aren't doing anything and are standing in the way of progress. I'm less concerned about people like Tester or Manchin who are our only shot of getting democratic numbers up in otherwise unwinnable states.

But I feel like I've posted this sort of argument before and I'm sure people are sick of hearing it by now.

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https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1353887432001933312?s=19

Fuck all of this.

I don't care about all of your reasoning and explanations about why I shouldn't care. Fuck these piece of shit DINOs.

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Ugh this is Biden's dumbest plan

https://twitter.com/GaryWinslett/status/1353897134077173761

(Though I'm very happy that stuff like this is the worst thing I have to complain about coming from the WH!)

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https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1353901695739326465

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Suprak the Stud posted...

I mean, yes, Bernie Sanders is the chair of the budget committee.

Actually he isn't!

And while McConnell caved on the organizing resolution, I don't think he had as of the time of your post! He only did so like two hours ago! (And I don't believe they have voted on it yet so Republicans still chair AFAIK)

IDK if you knew, but as I explained in an earlier post somewhere (last topic?) that given that this Congress started at the beginning of the month, before GA, the Senate began at 51R - 48D (Loeffler was still serving as her appointment lasted until Warnock was sworn in; Perdue's seat was vacant.) Accordingly, the committees were formed under Republican control and chaired by Republicans. When Warnock, Ossoff, and Padilla were all sworn in on January 20th to make it 50-50, Schumer became Majority Leader... but absent a new organizing resolution to adjust the committees to reflect the new reality, they were still chaired by Republicans because that's how they were originally set up at the beginning of the month.

What McConnell has been doing the past few days is obstructing the organizing resolution, effectively filibustering the consequences of the election. Literally, even, at one point he tossed out a filibuster threat on the organizing resolution. He was demanding that Democrats agree to enshrine the legislative filibuster or else he wouldn't agree to an organizing resolution. The entire play was ludicrous and quite frankly I believe the Dems should have killed the filibuster right then and there to pass the organizing resolution because refusing to let the majority actually chair the committees should be absolutely unacceptable - and this was showing actual results. Graham, for instance, refused to schedule hearings for Biden's AG nomination/Garland, so it was literally holding up some Cabinet appointments. However, Manchin wasn't playing ball with the rest of the Dem caucus here. It's possible he'd change his tune if this dragged on even longer (it's sometimes hard to remember it literally hasn't even been a week) given that literally this was keeping Manchin himself from assuming chairmanship of a committee but as someone who has soft-defended Manchin in the past on similar lines as you, and for the fact that he's always been there when it mattered, this was extremely disappointing to me.

Now, McConnell caved here so this fight is over, but consider me unsatisfied with how this all played out in terms of how things will go moving forward. I'm still going to wait and see, but I'm a bit more pessimistic now than I was before.

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Not sure if you guys talked about it or not but Gavin Newsom somehow outdoes himself as a total asshole. Just a total spineless, witless loser.

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xp1337 posted...

And while McConnell caved on the organizing resolution

I keep seeing it characterized as this and I just don't see how anyone can't understand that McConnell got everything he wanted out of the confrontation. With Manchin (and Sinema) publicly committing to keeping the legislative filibuster in place McConnell is in basically the same situation as minority leader that he was as majority leader - that is, not a single piece of legislation he doesn't approve of will pass the Senate. Hell, if he doesn't even want a vote on something it'll never be voted on. As long as the filibuster remains in place, Mitch McConnell remains the most powerful person in the U.S. government.

I can already tell you how this is going to go. Anything Democrats pass in the House will be filibustered and die in the Senate, meaning the Democrats will accomplish absolutely nothing in the next two years and then get shellacked in the midterms and lose both houses. This will lead to absolutely nothing getting done for the two years after that, at which point Biden will be 82 years old and running for re-election with a record utterly devoid of any major accomplishments aside from "cleaned up some portion of Trump's mess". If the Republicans run any reasonably strong candidate in 2024 they're taking back total control of the government.

Fuck Joe Manchin, fuck the Senate, and especially fuck Mitch McConnell.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

I keep seeing it characterized as this and I just don't see how anyone can't understand that McConnell got everything he wanted out of the confrontation.

What did he get from this standoff that he didn't have before?

We had public statements from Manchin saying he would not kill the filibuster before McConnell started this fight, before the election even. What McConnell sought here was the organizing resolution to handcuff Schumer and he isn't getting it. Eliminating the filibuster was always going to require Manchin to go back on his public statements - or, more likely IMO, to alter the filibuster rules in such a way that it can't be used to obstruct to the extent the GOP has used it to, of which there are several ways to do so. This was the case before this standoff and it still is.

I mean, I guess McConnell "got" Manchin to repeat what he's been saying all along but that isn't really a "get" IMO.

Now, you may be right about how this all ends up playing out - that I leave this standoff feeling more discouraged than I was before is because I think that likelihood has ticked up - but that's not because I think McConnell "won" or "got" anything here. It's because this was such an overreach on his part that it felt like the perfect opportunity to just end the filibuster right there and that wasn't the end result. But that's really just my expectations settling back to the baseline. McConnell's play here was a gross overreach and I thought he overextended and might pay the price for it and he didn't. So in the end he ran the clock about 5 days... which isn't nothing and is likely to be indicative of his plans going forward over the next 2-4 years but framing this as some huge loss for Dems is just crazy IMO unless you declared defeat in November because they failed to get enough Senate seats to have any margin of error to account for Manchin/Sinema/etc. (which is a fair take IMO, but again, has nothing to do with this organizing resolution stuff)

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xp1337 posted...

Actually he isn't!

And while McConnell caved on the organizing resolution, I don't think he had as of the time of your post! He only did so like two hours ago! (And I don't believe they have voted on it yet so Republicans still chair AFAIK)

IDK if you knew, but as I explained in an earlier post somewhere (last topic?) that given that this Congress started at the beginning of the month, before GA, the Senate began at 51R - 48D (Loeffler was still serving as her appointment lasted until Warnock was sworn in; Perdue's seat was vacant.) Accordingly, the committees were formed under Republican control and chaired by Republicans. When Warnock, Ossoff, and Padilla were all sworn in on January 20th to make it 50-50, Schumer became Majority Leader... but absent a new organizing resolution to adjust the committees to reflect the new reality, they were still chaired by Republicans because that's how they were originally set up at the beginning of the month.

What McConnell has been doing the past few days is obstructing the organizing resolution, effectively filibustering the consequences of the election. Literally, even, at one point he tossed out a filibuster threat on the organizing resolution. He was demanding that Democrats agree to enshrine the legislative filibuster or else he wouldn't agree to an organizing resolution. The entire play was ludicrous and quite frankly I believe the Dems should have killed the filibuster right then and there to pass the organizing resolution because refusing to let the majority actually chair the committees should be absolutely unacceptable - and this was showing actual results. Graham, for instance, refused to schedule hearings for Biden's AG nomination/Garland, so it was literally holding up some Cabinet appointments. However, Manchin wasn't playing ball with the rest of the Dem caucus here. It's possible he'd change his tune if this dragged on even longer (it's sometimes hard to remember it literally hasn't even been a week) given that literally this was keeping Manchin himself from assuming chairmanship of a committee but as someone who has soft-defended Manchin in the past on similar lines as you, and for the fact that he's always been there when it mattered, this was extremely disappointing to me.

Now, McConnell caved here so this fight is over, but consider me unsatisfied with how this all played out in terms of how things will go moving forward. I'm still going to wait and see, but I'm a bit more pessimistic now than I was before.

No, that's my fault. I thought this was something that was resolved earlier today. I read something on Twitter, but obviously something was misreported or I read it incorrectly because I thought all this got sorted out already. My mistake!

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xp1337 posted...

It's because this was such an overreach on his part that it felt like the perfect opportunity to just end the filibuster right there and that wasn't the end result

I guess you could frame it as a "win" for McConnell if he realized this power dynamic and essentially chose to call the bluff, but overall I agree with the rest of your analysis here. Not having an actual handshake agreement on this is huge and leaves open the possibility, no matter how slim, that the pro-filibuster holdouts get converted at some point in the near future. There's one less obstacle to the Dems turning the "abolish the filibuster" bluff into reality, which is and has always been their only winning move.

I just hope McConnell is wrong on this for once in his miserable life and that someone smacks some sense into Manchin et al.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Is it the far right, or just...the media?

I feel like I saw "Newsom lifting restrictions" from a dozen media outlets, if there's more to the story like "LA county has its own restrictions", well that's all well and good, but the story is still "Newsom is lifting restrictions", no?

He is lifting restrictions, despite what red is trying to do to defend him.

From the beginning of this, Newsom has been a disaster. He has jerked people around, offered barely any assistance, and has broken his own rules before. When businesses were finally opening back up and everyone worked hard to meet all the standards, he literally said "Oh wait, you have to close back down in four days." He's just a goon and everyone has a right to be upset at him because he's just jerking people around and nothing he does makes sense.

He went on TV to brag about how much science there is and how great his state is doing now getting under control. Covid is still worse than it's ever been in California. The numbers are FINALLY starting to go down, but they're still horrifically bad and worse than they were before this latest lockdown. There are ICUs STILL at 100% capacity right now. And the tiered system is bad because people just go over to neighboring counties and it fucks everything else all over again. We still need this lockdown because things are still going up.

And you can say "Well at least we're getting the vaccine rolling!" But California is number 50 out of 50 states in terms of effectiveness in getting the vaccine out. He's just completely failed at getting people vaccines in this state, so we're even more behind than everyone else.

And on top of all of that, California has its own strain of Covid that is going around, meaning MORE people are likely to get this new strand of it! Things are so bad here we literally have a brand new strand of Covid to deal with.

And he's loosening the restriction for this trash tiered system that will not be successful. Gavin Newsom is an asshole. And I know red is saying "Well all these right wingers", no. Literally everyone on both sides are saying this is a terrible call. Right wingers will say whatever, but the science behind this makes no sense to lift a full state-wide lockdown right now. The right wing started to do a recall of this schmuck that got millions of signatures from people in California, which is why he's doing this. This is just going to lead to more deaths and anyone who is trying to defend this just buying into the nonsense of a guy who hasn't had a sense at all throughout this whole thing.

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https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1353934799422021635
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1353933755757559808
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1353130194127777793

cannot believe they are polling this stuff like 5 days in. the big discrepancy probably has something to do with it, too.

Honestly, an idea I saw proposed not too long ago that I liked (though not as much as just eliminating the filibuster) is inverting how it works.

As is, the majority needs to get 60 votes to end debate and move forward. The idea I saw was to flip that and require the minority to produce 40 votes to continue it. At first blush it might seem like nothing (and that might even be politically advantageous to people who don't follow the minutia in all this) but it would basically require the minority to actually have to put in some actual effort and cost to obstruct things instead of being able to do so trivially. The GOP would basically have to keep 40 Senators on or near the Senate floor at all times because if someone called for an end of debate they'd have to actually have the votes on the floor to keep it going at basically all hours.

Like, it still feels like too much theater to me and they should just abolish it, but if you really want to appease the "but it's tradition~" folks I think this would be a fairly effective tool. Do McConnell, Grassley, etc. want to basically live in the Senate chambers for these votes? You wouldn't even have to change the 60/40 numbers (though you could do that on top of this!) or require it to be a talking filibuster (or tack that on as well!)

I think it's the better angle to try and persuade Manchin, etc. since at this point I do think it's exceedingly unlikely they straight-up vote to kill the filibuster. But if they can change it from something that requires zero effort on the part of the minority to something that actually requires they have to commit to with real effort, and physical presence... I don't know if all of them want to do that. But who knows, maybe they block something that gets Manchin to change his tune.

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Change it back to the old-school Mr. Smith Goes to Washington shit where you have to physically rant until you pass out or it doesn't count. Bonus: ancient obstructionist senators might die of exhaustion in the process

Man if that movie were erased from the pop civics curriculum maybe we would have gotten rid of this shit a long time ago

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That movie sucks TBQH

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

He is lifting restrictions, despite what red is trying to do to defend him.

From the beginning of this, Newsom has been a disaster. He has jerked people around, offered barely any assistance, and has broken his own rules before. When businesses were finally opening back up and everyone worked hard to meet all the standards, he literally said "Oh wait, you have to close back down in four days." He's just a goon and everyone has a right to be upset at him because he's just jerking people around and nothing he does makes sense.

He went on TV to brag about how much science there is and how great his state is doing now getting under control. Covid is still worse than it's ever been in California. The numbers are FINALLY starting to go down, but they're still horrifically bad and worse than they were before this latest lockdown. There are ICUs STILL at 100% capacity right now. And the tiered system is bad because people just go over to neighboring counties and it fucks everything else all over again. We still need this lockdown because things are still going up.

And you can say "Well at least we're getting the vaccine rolling!" But California is number 50 out of 50 states in terms of effectiveness in getting the vaccine out. He's just completely failed at getting people vaccines in this state, so we're even more behind than everyone else.

And on top of all of that, California has its own strain of Covid that is going around, meaning MORE people are likely to get this new strand of it! Things are so bad here we literally have a brand new strand of Covid to deal with.

And he's loosening the restriction for this trash tiered system that will not be successful. Gavin Newsom is an asshole. And I know red is saying "Well all these right wingers", no. Literally everyone on both sides are saying this is a terrible call. Right wingers will say whatever, but the science behind this makes no sense to lift a full state-wide lockdown right now. The right wing started to do a recall of this schmuck that got millions of signatures from people in California, which is why he's doing this. This is just going to lead to more deaths and anyone who is trying to defend this just buying into the nonsense of a guy who hasn't had a sense at all throughout this whole thing.

The vaccine rollout, from what I've read is actually...fine. We're not doing terrific at it, but the supply constraint is such that we are probably going to run out of vaccines soon regardless at current pace. There was also a conservative approach taken due to lack of clarity on whether there was enough for second doses. We're also no longer last (#44, woo).

Not gonna defend the French Laundry stuff (what a stupid thing to do), but I imagine the removal of lockdown is a response to the more conservative parts of state basically rebelling against it. Unfortunately there's a lot of parts of CA that are full of COVID deniers/antimaskers, and as it turns out the police in those parts don't really care to do much about it. It feels mostly like a "fuck it, leave it to the counties then" because realistically nothing will change much from this. The counties full of antimaskers will continue to be assholes regardless of whether it's sanctioned or not.

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xp1337 posted...

Honestly, an idea I saw proposed not too long ago that I liked (though not as much as just eliminating the filibuster) is inverting how it works.

As is, the majority needs to get 60 votes to end debate and move forward. The idea I saw was to flip that and require the minority to produce 40 votes to continue it. At first blush it might seem like nothing (and that might even be politically advantageous to people who don't follow the minutia in all this) but it would basically require the minority to actually have to put in some actual effort and cost to obstruct things instead of being able to do so trivially. The GOP would basically have to keep 40 Senators on or near the Senate floor at all times because if someone called for an end of debate they'd have to actually have the votes on the floor to keep it going at basically all hours.

Like, it still feels like too much theater to me and they should just abolish it, but if you really want to appease the "but it's tradition~" folks I think this would be a fairly effective tool. Do McConnell, Grassley, etc. want to basically live in the Senate chambers for these votes? You wouldn't even have to change the 60/40 numbers (though you could do that on top of this!) or require it to be a talking filibuster (or tack that on as well!)

I think it's the better angle to try and persuade Manchin, etc. since at this point I do think it's exceedingly unlikely they straight-up vote to kill the filibuster. But if they can change it from something that requires zero effort on the part of the minority to something that actually requires they have to commit to with real effort, and physical presence... I don't know if all of them want to do that. But who knows, maybe they block something that gets Manchin to change his tune.

Manchin and Sinema have both sort of backed themselves into this idiotic corner of their own creation where I can't see them even agreeing to something like that.

They should've taken the Tester route of "no I'm not in favor of abolishing the filibuster but if McConnell and republicans are assholes with it then I will reassess". Manchin and Sinema were just flat out "no never nuh uh" so I don't see them going back. Could be their intention, obviously, but it doesn't give them any leverage coming up like Tester has.

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VintageGin posted...

Not gonna defend the French Laundry stuff (what a stupid thing to do),

This was dumb but also something literally every rich idiot and politician is doing. The fake outrage over this one really was something.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

I keep seeing it characterized as this and I just don't see how anyone can't understand that McConnell got everything he wanted out of the confrontation. With Manchin (and Sinema) publicly committing to keeping the legislative filibuster in place McConnell is in basically the same situation as minority leader that he was as majority leader - that is, not a single piece of legislation he doesn't approve of will pass the Senate. Hell, if he doesn't even want a vote on something it'll never be voted on. As long as the filibuster remains in place, Mitch McConnell remains the most powerful person in the U.S. government.

Technically, McConnell has slightly less power now. As Majority Leader, he could just refuse to put bills on the Senate schedule at all. Now that he can't simply block everything the GOP will have to actually declare filibusters, which means the Democrats can hold cloture votes and show where individual senators stand on the issues. This changes nothing regarding things getting done, but at least the Democrats can try to make it clear what each party really believes.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Change it back to the old-school Mr. Smith Goes to Washington shit where you have to physically rant until you pass out or it doesn't count. Bonus: ancient obstructionist senators might die of exhaustion in the process

Man if that movie were erased from the pop civics curriculum maybe we would have gotten rid of this shit a long time ago

The problem with keeping "talking filibusters" is that a group of senators could just yield the floor to each other in shifts. There's no particular reason a filibuster has to be performed by only one person, that's just what everyone thinks of because those tend to be the most well-known.
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VintageGin posted...

The vaccine rollout, from what I've read is actually...fine. We're not doing terrific at it, but the supply constraint is such that we are probably going to run out of vaccines soon regardless at current pace. There was also a conservative approach taken due to lack of clarity on whether there was enough for second doses. We're also no longer last (#44, woo).

California has a problem because we're the largest state but so much of our population is clustered in a few areas. Its creates an equity problem and also a manpower problem. Our medical personnel are busy treating people with COVID, but we need that same pool of people to work these mass vaccination sites. They've been trying to get as many retired or otherwise out of work medical people to come work as they can, but its not easy(Our health director in LA county gained a bit of notoriety a few days ago because she was even personally working at one of the sites).

And I can't reiterate enough, we're the largest state and the federal government had no plan. They just dumped off the product. Hopefully in a few months with more federal assistance we can close the gap a bit.

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Kellyanne Conway posted a nude video of her 16 year old daughter.

Arrest. This. Subhuman. Scum.

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what the fuck

why did she do that
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Her daughter was hypothesizing she got hacked or something. Kellyanne has been documented as being verbally abusive for months so I'm not sure she's earned that benefit of the doubt but it at least isn't immediately clear what her intention was. She also doesn't seem to know why her mom had that photo in the first place.

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Because she's a fucking psychopath who just last week told her daughter she wished she was dead, and the only reasons she wasn't was that she was a pro-life republican.

I am legitimately severely afraid for this girl's safety. Kellyanne Conway is a very dangerous "human being".

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I mean, there isn't really any way they can justify not arresting her for this. Even if she isn't arrested because rich people are immune from consequences, her daughter should be able to get away from her after this.

... what

so uh Kellyanne going to jail soon right?

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fuming posted...

I mean, there isn't really any way they can justify not arresting her for this. Even if she isn't arrested because rich people are immune from consequences, her daughter should be able to get away from her after this.

You would think that before though too, so who knows! But hopefully, yeah.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

what the fuck

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She is rich and shes white no one is going to press charges for this.

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The fuck

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I am gonna be honest but the conway family is toxic all the way around, at least on the women side of it. I don't discount any possible scenarios regarding that. The daughter and mother are both just as bad. If she actually did post that photo, then that's obviously revenge porn, spreading of child porn, and etc. That's a lofty sentence.

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The daughter is literally 16, Corrik.

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red13n posted...

The daughter is literally 16, Corrik.

What does that mean?

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saying "the daughter and mother are both just as bad" makes it look like you are being a weird apologist. Most 16 year olds are not in the best mental state. To attribute it to "conway women" seems well, bad.

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red13n posted...

saying "the daughter and mother are both just as bad" makes it look like you are being a weird apologist. Most 16 year olds are not in the best mental state. To attribute it to "conway women" seems well, bad.

It doesn't matter what it looks like when it is the truth. The daughter has been attacking and disparaging her mother for how long publicly, arguably with the intent to gain popularity and arguably due to emotional distress.

I don't think a parent should have to deal with being emotionally abused continually just as much as a child shouldn't.

The problem is we are getting almost all of our information through a lens which likely is biased. It is almost impossible to sift what is true here. If they came out a month from now and states she posted this photo of herself on purpose to try and bolster her attacks against her mother and to get away from her, I wouldn't be surprised. If they say, Conway wanted revenge against her daughter so posted her daughter nude on the internet. I wouldn't be surprised. I am simply stating that it is almost impossible to know what the fuck is going on there and nothing would surprise me frankly at all.

I believe a federal investigation is warranted to see if it can dig through into what is going on.

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mother shares child porn of her daughter

"both are just as bad"

...

both-siders really don't have any limit huh

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I mean, investigate to find out if she did it or not and go from there. Most other answers need more info than just the occurance.

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Kinglicious posted...

I mean, investigate to find out if she did it or not and go from there. Most other answers need more info than just the occurance.

Yeah, basically an investigation is warranted to determine if charges should be filed. Neither party personally seems very credible regarding this situation at this point from an outside view.

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I'm kind of interested in what makes someone feel like they have to stand up for someone that clearly posted nudes of their own underage daughter.

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red13n posted...

I'm kind of interested in what makes someone feel like they have to stand up for someone that clearly posted nudes of their own underage daughter.

You have a weird sense of what standing up for someone is.

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Not particularly, no.

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red13n posted...

Not particularly, no.

Sounds like it.

"Both them bitches crazy. That one bitch needs to be investigated and charged with a ton of federal crimes if investigation deems it is warranted. But, I ain't ruling anything out when it comes from them crazy bitches."

"Omg you are standing up for her"

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