Board 8 > Judge is CONFLICTED on a GUY Suing his EX GF for ABORTING THEIR CHILD!!!.

(+) Yeah! (+)

More than half of all abortions happen before it becomes a fetus anyways.

The way I always look at this is I'd never support a law that imposed mandatory kidney donations, so I'm not going to force women to give up their body autonomy either. Even if the kidney law only applied to criminals so you could make the choice not to commit crime argument.
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Obellisk posted...

Stop treating fetuses like living humans with rights. They have no rights. They are merely an organism sapping the life of its host until its ready to emerge from its cocoon.

Now then. Who gets to say what happens to it?

Holy fuck. Never seen a parasite argument in real life and we have literally two in the same topic. Even pro-choice people regularly denounce this argument as sick usually. Holy fuck.
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Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Stop treating fetuses like living humans with rights. They have no rights. They are merely an organism sapping the life of its host until its ready to emerge from its cocoon.

Now then. Who gets to say what happens to it?

Holy fuck. Never seen a parasite argument in real life and we have literally two in the same topic. Even pro-choice people regularly denounce this argument as sick usually. Holy fuck.

I just don't think giving something the size of a pea "rights" is a legitimate argument.
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To pretend that the man and woman are equal when it comes to the actual birthing of a baby is just ridiculous to me.
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Corrik7 posted...

banananor posted...

It can feel unfair or raw that you as a man don't have any control over the situation, but you're also not the one that would have to undergo all the physiological changes that go along with growing an 8lb tumor that will eventually turn into a human. You can just turn around and impregnate someone else. That's the inherent unfairness of reality.

He is literally using the baby is a parasite debate. Holy hell. I thought I would never see this argument actually in real life debate!!!

And 8 pound tumor? He is saying a fully formed baby is a tumor. Wild.

Corrik, is this actually what you took away from my entire post?

For the god damn record, i was using that word flippantly. You are too easily offended.

I've tried to be nice to you in the past, but you're not going to be able to convince me you're not a troll for much longer.

Every single person on my ignore list- which is at a big fat size of two- ignores every good point someone approaches them with

Regardless of whether they're trolling or just incredibly near-sighted, it doesn't matter to me.

Convince me you're neither of those things, please, corrik.
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I really dont think Corrik trolls, hes just a different sort of guy from most of the board.

Of all the people here who skew conservative politically (at least that I can think of off the top of my head), hes definitely the one I least suspect is a bad dude.
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Yeah, so why does he ignore valid points and rather kick up trouble and only respond to cherry picked nonsense?

I guess this means he's in the same category as vlado? Vlado is not a troll, but similarly ignores intelligent people that are willing to have real discussions, because to him that is closer to losing an argument than winning one

I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. I would hope the goal of talking to other people is to mix ideas and see things from another perspective. Even if you don't agree, it lets you see a different type of thought process

I'm just disappointed when people are incapable of engaging honestly. Maybe they are just there to ejaculate whatever basic assumptions they have and never actually listen to anything

And maybe more people on this board would end up falling into that category if I talked with them moreoften. I'm not making a comment about any particular political leaning. People come on to vent and try to stick it to someone, whatever.
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See I hate how so many people believe that if you're pro life then you're wrong plain and simple. How in fact do you know that? That's the funny thing about our morals, we only view them as far as the world we know.

Just because there's no brain activity for the fetus to think, does not mean they don't have a pontential soul. I'm not one to get religious or anything, but I do like to think about things like post death and pre birth. Both of which could just be oblivion and frankly I don't like the idea of taking away the opportunity for a potential life to escape from that potential nothingness.

That said if those scenarios are too unknown and you'd rather focus on what is known, like brain activity, what women go through during pregnancy, quality of life for the child, etc. Then you're fully entitled to believe in what you want to believe in, but don't act like you actually know everything about what life is and what it means.
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banananor posted...

Corrik7 posted...

banananor posted...

It can feel unfair or raw that you as a man don't have any control over the situation, but you're also not the one that would have to undergo all the physiological changes that go along with growing an 8lb tumor that will eventually turn into a human. You can just turn around and impregnate someone else. That's the inherent unfairness of reality.

He is literally using the baby is a parasite debate. Holy hell. I thought I would never see this argument actually in real life debate!!!

And 8 pound tumor? He is saying a fully formed baby is a tumor. Wild.

Corrik, is this actually what you took away from my entire post?

For the god damn record, i was using that word flippantly. You are too easily offended.

I've tried to be nice to you in the past, but you're not going to be able to convince me you're not a troll for much longer.

Every single person on my ignore list- which is at a big fat size of two- ignores every good point someone approaches them with

Regardless of whether they're trolling or just incredibly near-sighted, it doesn't matter to me.

Convince me you're neither of those things, please, corrik.

I was so bewildered you went there that I couldn't take the rest of your post seriously at that point tbqh.

I can't tell your intent with it, but there is actually people who do believe that a fetus is a foreign parasite leeching off the woman's body and should be treated just as such you would like ringworm or whatever.

How is it trolling to call it out?

I mean, at some point, it gets a little numbing to respond to you all who are basically recycling the same arguments with the same responses.

People say I am supposedly lawful neutral or some shit. I think the law is Paramount. And, yes, I agreed if it is legal, then so be it. But, I don't have to agree the law should be that way. And, why would someone, such as myself, who puts so much stock into the law and legal system not have just as much stock in responsibility and consequences?

That is who I am.

How does that make me a troll?
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BetrayedTangy posted...

Just because there's no brain activity for the fetus to think, does not mean they don't have a pontential soul. I'm not one to get religious or anything, but I do like to think about things like post death and pre birth. Both of which could just be oblivion and frankly I don't like the idea of taking away the opportunity for a potential life to escape from that potential nothingness.

This is such a weird argument when, as pointed out, 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.
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TheRock1525 posted...

BetrayedTangy posted...

Just because there's no brain activity for the fetus to think, does not mean they don't have a pontential soul. I'm not one to get religious or anything, but I do like to think about things like post death and pre birth. Both of which could just be oblivion and frankly I don't like the idea of taking away the opportunity for a potential life to escape from that potential nothingness.

This is such a weird argument when, as pointed out, 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

Are you ever going to source this? Because it seems insane and nothing I see supports that.

https://health.howstuffworks.com/pregnancy-and-parenting/pregnancy/complications/miscarriage.htm

"About 15 to 20 percent of recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage, but almost 75 percent of those are attributed to chemical pregnancy."

https://www.babycenter.com/0_miscarriage-signs-causes-and-treatment_252.bc

"About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and more than 80 percent of these losses happen before 12 weeks."

https://www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/miscarriage-rates-by-week

"Unfortunately, between 10 and 15 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. "

The only thing I can even see that says 50% is supposedly from the March of Dimes that says 50% of all pregnancies are miscarriages because most miscarriages happen before missing a cycle and the woman never even knows she miscarries.

I would love to know where they just magically pulled that number from!
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TheRock1525 posted...

BetrayedTangy posted...

Just because there's no brain activity for the fetus to think, does not mean they don't have a pontential soul. I'm not one to get religious or anything, but I do like to think about things like post death and pre birth. Both of which could just be oblivion and frankly I don't like the idea of taking away the opportunity for a potential life to escape from that potential nothingness.

This is such a weird argument when, as pointed out, 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

Well first off it's funny that you say that because a quick google tells me that while 50% are indeed miscarriages 80% of those miscarriages are within the first 3 months of pregnancy most of the time before the woman even realizes she's pregnant. To be fair though the heartbeat bill is saying the abortion is illegal after 1 month? Which is pretty damn strict and is our government saying abortion's still legal even though it might as well not be. So I do think abortion within the first 3 months would probably be fair as that's when most miscarriages happen.

Secondly I'm arguing against the ethics of abortion itself. I'm very much of the mindset that willingly killing a child as it's forming is incredibly unfair and don't think it's right to do that and frankly I think that's where most people come from. Hence why I have a huge issue telling people pro lifers they're wrong, due to science we as human beings aren't even 100% on. If a pregnant woman said she wasn't having an abortion because she doesn't believe in doing it, no one would care. It's the same basic principle. I don't see what's wrong with someone thinking it's morally unsound. Corrik himself even stated that if the law makes it legal than great have as many abortions as you like, that doesn't change the fact that he still thinks it's wrong.
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