Current Events > Pentagon to allow transgender people to enlist in military beginning Jan 1st

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/AP/status/940281931291348993?s=17

#winning
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sure why not
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good
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ClockworkHare posted...

sure why not

I think the narrative is theyre just doing it for free surgery, or some bs
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Schwarber posted...

ClockworkHare posted...

sure why not

I think the narrative is theyre just doing it for free surgery, or some bs

As long as they serve their full time, I don't care. It's not like the US military is broke by any means...
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I completely agree with you guys, Im just sayin what Ive seen around here. Fortunately most can think logically about it, but the shills havent dropped in yet so well see what they come up with.
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Allowing trans people to join the military and protect American imperial interests isn't what I'd call #winning - especially since those interests negatively impact trans people (especially trans women of color) the world over.

We should be encouraging the destruction of American/Western imperialism if we are to truly liberate GSM people.
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QueenCarly posted...

We should be encouraging the destruction of American/Western imperialism if we are to truly liberate GSM people.

What do you mean by this? (Keep in mind that alternate world powers such as China and Russia, which are both engaged in their own expansion efforts, are not exactly what we would call pro LGBT+.)
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it's silly that this is a thing in any country to begin with, not only for trans folks, but also for women and gays. in times of war, what does gender or preference have anything to do with this? they're all capable to go into battle.

If you can pass basic training I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to enlist barring a debilitating medical condition like allergic to sunlight or something.

Even then you should still be allowed to get a job as support.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Schwarber posted...

ClockworkHare posted...

sure why not

I think the narrative is theyre just doing it for free surgery, or some bs

Even if they are, so what? People enter the military for all kinds of reasons, but they still serve their time and do what needs to be done.

This. It's not like they can just join up, get their surgery, and leave. People act like it's an easy path to free surgery. It's not quite that simple
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Eat shit, Trump.
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Phantom_Nook posted...

Eat shit, Trump.

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The biggest problem has nothing to do with transgenders, but now that the left got their way on this they'll start bitching until drill instructors can longer insult the recruits and other stuff like that. Leftists are going to reduce the military's combat effectiveness. It's bad enough that drill instructors are no longer allowed to hit the recruits. Within 5-10 years, the punishment for failing or disobeying an order will be to talk it out with a counselor or some similar bullshit.
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As long as they figured out what to do with the berthing issues--as the main concern of people I remembered serving with earlier this year was how LGBT service members would be berthed, as concerns for pre-op transwomen dicks in female berthings was a huge discomfort for basically every female service member I talked to prior to getting out--then I have no problem with this, really.

The amount of bullshit you would have to go through to even get SRS in the military would be an absurd hurdle, regarding both medical and psychological examinations and any requirements needed to be passed to even get it, so this has never really been an issue about "males seeking an easy way out of fitness standards", because it requires a huge effort to get those kinds of things approved in the first place.
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QueenCarly posted...

We should be encouraging the destruction of American/Western imperialism if we are to truly liberate GSM people.

I am here for this take
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Great

Good. Maybe "we fought to defend people who hate us and think we shouldn't exist" will be a talking point in a few decades. It worked for other marginalized groups.
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Well said
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I'm so confused. We had like 15000 serving already or something like that.

Did they ever actually get kicked out back when trump tried to?
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Great

Trump's America
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DifferentialEquation posted...

The biggest problem has nothing to do with transgenders, but now that the left got their way on this they'll start bitching until drill instructors can longer insult the recruits and other stuff like that. Leftists are going to reduce the military's combat effectiveness. It's bad enough that drill instructors are no longer allowed to hit the recruits. Within 5-10 years, the punishment for failing or disobeying an order will be to talk it out with a counselor or some similar bullshit.

1 - Please stop trying to use 'liberal', 'leftist', and other such dumb labels when expressing your opinion. It makes you look ignorant.
2 - Insulting recruits is basically already prohibited at boot camp. And there's no reason to hit someone. It's literally a failure on the instructor's part if the recruit doesn't understand something (or if the recruit truly just doesn't get it, then they won't graduate). There's no reason to insult people, either. Yelling and running people through "corrective training" is one thing. Blatantly insulting people has absolutely zero training value and reinforces negative attitudes that someone can carry through their career.

Zeeak4444 posted...

I'm so confused. We had like 15000 serving already or something like that.

Did they ever actually get kicked out back when trump tried to?

Transgender service members were never allowed to join or serve openly until September or October of last year. They still were not able to join, but currently serving transgender members could "come out" and start going through medical processes to develop a treatment plan, get their name and gender marker updated, etc. Trump made a really dumb tweet and the program's future was thrown into an abyss of absolute uncertainty, with self-declared transgender members not knowing at all if they were going to be kicked out now, and commands not knowing if they were going to be kicked out or blocked from re-enlistment or what.

This decision puts things back on the track they were on before, so that should help quite a bit.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

The biggest problem has nothing to do with transgenders, but now that the left got their way on this they'll start bitching until drill instructors can longer insult the recruits and other stuff like that. Leftists are going to reduce the military's combat effectiveness. It's bad enough that drill instructors are no longer allowed to hit the recruits. Within 5-10 years, the punishment for failing or disobeying an order will be to talk it out with a counselor or some similar bullshit.

I don't think drill sergeants should physically strike recruits, lightly shoving them is okay.

I was literally just at my little brother's graduation from OSUT a few days ago, and the night before they did some demonstration thing where the drill sergeants were yelling at them all while they were doing pushups and stuff. They still yell constantly, they still call people out for not doing the pushups properly, etc.

Like one of the drill sergeants, who was a female actually, shoved a guy lightly with her foot because he had stopped doing the pushups and she was like "keep moving you're not finished yet!!!"

and then later they had to load onto these buses and they started walking to the buses and the drill sergeants were like "WHY ARE YOU WALKING?!?!" and then forced everyone to run onto the buses.
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I dunno why you guys take him seriously, especially since he's admitted that he does it just to fuck with ppl.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

The biggest problem has nothing to do with transgenders, but now that the left got their way

This is how ignorant conservatives think. Its why they're happy Trump is president, anything that pisses off liberals must be good. Jesus Christ....
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That's stupid. Don't post stupid things in my topic please.
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Spooking posted...

This was some great reverse psychology by Trump.

"We're against war! Boo! I'll never support the military."

Trump: I don't think transgenders should serve.

"How dare Trump tell me I can't serve! I'm signing up Jan 1st. HA!"

You sure showed Trump.

I'll never support the military? Lmao jesus, I mean there's wrong, and then theres this nonsense.
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Spooking posted...

This was some great reverse psychology by Trump.

"We're against war! Boo! I'll never support the military."

Trump: I don't think transgenders should serve.

"How dare Trump tell me I can't serve! I'm signing up Jan 1st. HA!"

You sure showed Trump.

What would be the point in that though? At least one of the branches is headed towards another "force shaping" drawdown, no one branch is really hurting for new people.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Even if they are, so what? People enter the military for all kinds of reasons, but they still serve their time and do what needs to be done.

most people don't join the military and immediately get a surgery that prevents them from actually serving for a majority of their enlistment

not sure if that's what happens but if it is i do know that it isn't a quick process to transition.
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As long as integration doesn't compromise the safety of anyone serving (trans people included), I don't have a problem with it. I don't know if that's been established yet or not, and I don't like the idea of social policy coming before the lives of our service people, but I guess ultimately that's what it all comes down to anyway.
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Wishy posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Even if they are, so what? People enter the military for all kinds of reasons, but they still serve their time and do what needs to be done.

most people don't join the military and immediately get a surgery that prevents them from actually serving for a majority of their enlistment

not sure if that's what happens but if it is i do know that it isn't a quick process to transition.

That isn't what happens. At all.

SpiralDrift posted...

As long as integration doesn't compromise the safety of anyone serving (trans people included), I don't have a problem with it. I don't know if that's been established yet or not, and I don't like the idea of social policy coming before the lives of our service people, but I guess ultimately that's what it all comes down to anyway.

Trans people have been part of the military for a while now, so I'm sure it'll be fine. Just like the bathroom issue, it was something that wasn't bothering anyone until Republicans made a huge fuss about it for purely political reasons. Trans people been using the bathroom they felt like using since forever. Really don't get why Democrats were blamed for inciting that issue when it was clearly Republicans, and Obama simply protected trans people by trying to ensure the status quo.
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nicklebro posted...

That isn't what happens. At all.

how's it work then? they serve four years and then get to transition?
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Wishy posted...

nicklebro posted...

That isn't what happens. At all.

how's it work then? they serve four years and then get to transition?

It's all driven by mission needs and what the operational work center can support, and "transitioning" doesn't have to include surgery.
It's also all medical-based processes which aren't very fast typically, so even if they have chain of command approval they're gonna have to go back and forth for several months between offices just to keep things moving. And I don't think most treatment plans even start off with medications of any kind for at least six months.
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nicklebro posted...

Wishy posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Even if they are, so what? People enter the military for all kinds of reasons, but they still serve their time and do what needs to be done.

most people don't join the military and immediately get a surgery that prevents them from actually serving for a majority of their enlistment

not sure if that's what happens but if it is i do know that it isn't a quick process to transition.

That isn't what happens. At all.

SpiralDrift posted...

As long as integration doesn't compromise the safety of anyone serving (trans people included), I don't have a problem with it. I don't know if that's been established yet or not, and I don't like the idea of social policy coming before the lives of our service people, but I guess ultimately that's what it all comes down to anyway.

Trans people have been part of the military for a while now, so I'm sure it'll be fine. Just like the bathroom issue, it was something that wasn't bothering anyone until Republicans made a huge fuss about it for purely political reasons. Trans people been using the bathroom they felt like using since forever. Really don't get why Democrats were blamed for inciting that issue when it was clearly Republicans, and Obama simply protected trans people by trying to ensure the status quo.

Not quite...
Transgenderism was an instant disqualifier for joining and it was grounds for removal from the military (sort of like DADT, except it was still banned after DADT was repealed).
As such obviously a transgender person couldn't post about anything about how they identified online, they were not afforded the same protections as other protected groups under the civil rights act, etc.

I mean, yeah, "gay people served" in the military, too, but they were at the same risk of being kicked out before DADT was repealed.
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Hexenherz posted...

Not quite...
Transgenderism was an instant disqualifier for joining and it was grounds for removal from the military (sort of like DADT, except it was still banned after DADT was repealed).
As such obviously a transgender person couldn't post about anything about how they identified online, they were not afforded the same protections as other protected groups under the civil rights act, etc.

I mean, yeah, "gay people served" in the military, too, but they were at the same risk of being kicked out before DADT was repealed.

So what you're saying is that trans people have been a part of the military for a while now. Lol so yes, quite exactly what I said. I mean I can show you trans veterans that prove my point or you can just acknowledge that rules against being trans didn't stop there from being trans people in the military. Really don't get what the point of this was tbh.
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Because before, they didn't serve as transgender people. And now they can serve as transgender, aka, themselves. They have the legal basis to do so, and they are entitled to medical benefits specifically for gender dysphoria, and they are entitled to get their gender marker updated to reflect who they are.

That wasn't a thing before. It is a pretty big change.
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Hexenherz posted...

Because before, they didn't serve as transgender people. And now they can serve as transgender, aka, themselves. They have the legal basis to do so, and they are entitled to medical benefits specifically for gender dysphoria, and they are entitled to get their gender marker updated to reflect who they are.

That wasn't a thing before. It is a pretty big change.

Sure, just don't know why you thought that was a rational response to my post. I said trans people have been serving in the military for a while now, you said "not exactly", but I was exactly right. That's why your post didn't make much sense to me. You were quoting me and asserting my post was inaccurate, but then went on to a completely unrelated point and didn't even come close to pointing out what part of my post you were disagreeing with.

You can just post a thought without having to piggy back on another post.
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don't particularly care so long as they don't lower the standards for them.
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Rika_Furude posted...

don't particularly care so long as they don't lower the standards for them.

Thats Transphobic!
Jk. I agree. If they can do the job should be the only question, cuz it's all that matters.
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Good
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My brother said that out of like 28 women who were in his basic training class, only 5 passed.

Less than 25% passed. They had to do the exact same physical stuff as the men though. This was also for being a cavalry scout, which is a more physical oriented job a lot like infantry but more reconnaissance vehicle based from what I understand, so not something that you'd think would have a lot of females.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

My brother said that out of like 28 women who were in his basic training class, only 5 passed.

Less than 25% passed. They had to do the exact same physical stuff as the men though. This was also for being a cavalry scout, which is a more physical oriented job a lot like infantry but more reconnaissance vehicle based from what I understand, so not something that you'd think would have a lot of females.

What % of men passed do you know? Or have an idea? I know women usually have lower physical requirements except for more elite units. Just wondering how much worse women do when they aren't afforded any benefits like that.
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nicklebro posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

My brother said that out of like 28 women who were in his basic training class, only 5 passed.

Less than 25% passed. They had to do the exact same physical stuff as the men though. This was also for being a cavalry scout, which is a more physical oriented job a lot like infantry but more reconnaissance vehicle based from what I understand, so not something that you'd think would have a lot of females.

What % of men passed do you know? Or have an idea? I know women usually have lower physical requirements except for more elite units. Just wondering how much worse women do when they aren't afforded any benefits like that.

About 2/3 of men, or 66%

it was like 120 out of 180 men to give you an idea of how many more males than females there were to begin with too lol
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Sativa_Rose posted...

nicklebro posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

My brother said that out of like 28 women who were in his basic training class, only 5 passed.

Less than 25% passed. They had to do the exact same physical stuff as the men though. This was also for being a cavalry scout, which is a more physical oriented job a lot like infantry but more reconnaissance vehicle based from what I understand, so not something that you'd think would have a lot of females.

What % of men passed do you know? Or have an idea? I know women usually have lower physical requirements except for more elite units. Just wondering how much worse women do when they aren't afforded any benefits like that.

About 2/3 of men, or 66%

it was like 120 out of 180 men to give you an idea of how many more males than females there were to begin with too lol

lol oh man. But hey, those bad ass chicks that passed are just that much more impressive to think that they were tougher than 1/3rd of the dudes y'know?
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nicklebro posted...

lol oh man. But hey, those bad ass chicks that passed are just that much more impressive to think that they were tougher than 1/3rd of the dudes y'know?

Yeah my bro said the ones who got through were really tough. Also there was a female drill sergeant but she was actually really hardcore and scary.
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Yeah no shit, everyone who makes it through that has to be tough as nails. Just nuts that there are women who actually did pass when 1/3rd of probably pretty tough guys couldn't. That's when you know its so much more psychological than people think.

Cool story, bro!

Like for real tho lol.
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nicklebro posted...

Hexenherz posted...

Because before, they didn't serve as transgender people. And now they can serve as transgender, aka, themselves. They have the legal basis to do so, and they are entitled to medical benefits specifically for gender dysphoria, and they are entitled to get their gender marker updated to reflect who they are.

That wasn't a thing before. It is a pretty big change.

Sure, just don't know why you thought that was a rational response to my post. I said trans people have been serving in the military for a while now, you said "not exactly", but I was exactly right. That's why your post didn't make much sense to me. You were quoting me and asserting my post was inaccurate, but then went on to a completely unrelated point and didn't even come close to pointing out what part of my post you were disagreeing with.

You can just post a thought without having to piggy back on another post.

... Dude... Because the sentence "Trans people have been serving in the military now" is misleading in the context of this discussion.
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