Lurker > rockus

I emailed my ranking.

I have like 5 or 6 writeups to do. Will try to jot something down quickly in a bit.

Still have like two thirds of the write-ups, which shouldn't be much since I'm not writing a lot but they get even worse when I try and do like a half dozen at once, so making it tomorrow should be a help.

Johnbobb posted...

Just so I can get a basic idea, who all plans to submit a list? I'm thinking from the topic there's

I was thinking of it. I'd just have to find the time to do some write-ups.

Yeah, I've never seen that but I heard it was really good when it first came out.

plasmabeam posted...

He makes me want to pour hot wax down my ear canals.

No one's gonna stop you. Buscemi rules.

Fargo, Reservoir Dogs, Death of Stalin, Boardwalk Empire, Miller's Crossing, Trees Lounge, Big Lebowski, 30 Rock, Miracle Workers. The dude rocks.

Absolute nonsense. The Godfather series and Scorsese's crime films are nothing like the focus tested and committee constructed MCU movies. Scorsese's comments about superhero movies when he was asked (he never really specified the MCU, headlines just framed it that way) described them as entertainment products likening to an amusement park, and he's perfectly right. I like a handful of superhero movies myself but that's what they are. Like a lot of summer movies and franchise blockbusters in the state of the modern studio system these aren't singular vision movies, they're algorithm approved, demographic tested, and board meeting consented products. Read Scorsese's entire statement and followup about it, he's 100 percent correct.

Seginustemple posted...

I'm guessing Scorsese was a fan

Yeah, definitely. He lists it in a short list of gangster films that sort of influenced how he thought about and approached crime in his own films

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/martin-scorsese-15-favourite-classic-gangster-films/

Though he seems to be a big fan of gangster films of that era overall. I know I've seen or heard him talk about Angels with Dirty Faces before too, among others.

Johnbobb posted...

also, you can mainly blame the Hays Code for that

Pretty sure there were organized crime films made in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s. White Heat was one of them. Roaring Twenties was also made 5 years after the Hays Code was implemented. There are tons of them in the 30s and 40s.

I don't know I'd be rather surprised if Gangster No. 1 and Lucky Number Slevin are more popular than Infernal Affairs or Election.

Not a bad list overall, just a little variety in older films (more than 4 made before 1969 would be nice. Roaring Twenties is a classic for example) and some foreign films would make it more interesting.

Though I do love seeing Battles Without Honor and Humanity on there. That's a great pick.

ribbiting posted...

How do you make a list like this and not include anything from Hong Kong?

Yeah, Election at least should be on it.

Okay, list. Could use more films made before the 70s tho.

Will not stand for this Charlie slander.

thesmark posted...

The only B&W movie from last year that I thought looked good was Passing

Faya dayi looks really good.

Yeah, I think when I was trying to finish my write-ups I mentioned that I had a much harder time talking about films I didn't like than I did for films that I loved but I think you and thesmark touch on a lot of things about The Lighthouse that I love.

I use to try my hand at writing reviews, especially for end of year favorite films lists, but I didn't really like what I wrote so I pivoted to doing a couple countdown videos. One of which, linked in my sig, includes The Lighthouse as one of my favorite films of that year.

BetrayedTangy posted...

Well guys, this inspired me to watch The Lighthouse while under the influence. Wish me luck!

I think I'll throw it on too while I do some work.

Lightning Strikes posted...

The audience is still there, they just werent going to the cinema opening night. There are signs of recovery too, look at how well Everything, Everywhere, All at Once has done. I suspect that if you didnt have franchises, people just wouldnt have been going to the cinema at all. The issue is that the studios are so terrified of taking a loss on anything upfront they arent willing to invest in a more diverse slate of films that will get more people going to the cinema in the longer term.

I don't know about that. I think another major issue is big tentpoles crowding films out, Disney being an obvious offender. Like EEA@O did well relatively but like Nortman bombed and *both* of them have already been released on streaming and when I wanted to see them in theater just recently they weren't playing anywhere near me while Dr. Strange was taking up like 80-90 percent of theater screens and what was left went to like Bad Guys and Sonic 2. Hell, even The Lost City which would have probably been a big movie banking on star power in the 90s has already been dropped on streaming which doesn't give me a lot of hope going forward.

But yeah, sorry, this is a whole other discussion.

Suprak the Stud posted...

It is interesting, because my biggest problem with Cabin in the Woods is just this. There are a handful of films on this list that focus so much on theme or messaging that they sacrifice coherence in the story. The very, very end of Cabin is guilty of this, where Joss Whedon crawls in his own ass a bit, and decides that the overall statement he's trying to make is more important than the plot. So you have Marty act in this absolutely insufferable way because the writer really wants us to know that the way we're making horror movies is wrong and it deserves to be torn down. There is some absolutely valid criticism and meta-commentary here, for sure, but I feel like you can't just ignore the actual story you're trying to tell to accomplish that.

I adore Cabin in the Woods, but I do think it falls into this trap.

Yeah, Cabin in the Woods is primarily a concept movie that could use better character writing and well, better scene-to-scene writing overall.

But I didn't care much for it overall so I guess obviously I'd feel that way.

Inviso posted...

because they've neglected the central tenet of a storytelling medium.

A medium that in its inception told its stories with silent pictures, and which is still the primary means by which it distinguishes itself.

Though if we're also talking about writing and storytelling we should be happy considering a number of the best written films on the list are in the top 10.

Sounds like you're intentionally missing the point here.

Oh, yeah. For example, you can't look at Bird Box and A Quiet Place and tell me that cinematography doesn't have substance.

Like, the form of a film matters and that is an obvious and textbook example of one, when looking at two relatively similar films. Sound design too. Like, sound design isn't just style, it's a substantial and meaningful aspect of films, *especially* horror films.

Inviso posted...

I just disagree with that assessment. Quality cinematography certainly improves a movie, but it's not the be-all/end-all. It should be icing on the cake, not the only substance of the cake.

Films are a visual medium. It's like saying that word usage is just style in a novel. I mean, sure it doesn't matter as much to people making bad movies, especially ones that are shot like TV shows. But in a good film compositions have things to say. They're more than just pretty pictures.

Inviso posted...

But "artsy" movies (and I said this during the course of our previous ranking) have a tendency to go for style over substance, focusing more on cinematography, theming and sound design in favor of plot, writing, and character development.

Cinematography *is* substance. Themes *are* writing.

And just to note since you're talking about plot and character but were upset about Cabin in the Woods losing out to Tucker & Dale, when what Tucker & Dale succeeds at over Cabin in the Woods is character (and by extension plot). Cabin in the Woods is mostly just about fitting jokes and setpieces into its high concept, while Tucker & Dale is mostly about developing a plot from its stronger characters.

Inviso posted...

It just feels like a shift the same way the Oscars shifted. The 90s and 00s still felt like the awards were about picking the best films, but the films that reached those heights still had mainstream appeal. But now it feels like, with so many movies out there and so many streaming options, the horror genre is taking a swing into the same vein as the Oscars, picking films for artistic purposes, rather than mainstream appeal.

This is a totally different argument but it isn't like the Oscars pick different kinds of movies now, it's that the movies that they pick aren't making as much money as franchise tentpoles with 200 million dollar marketing budgets. It isn't like West Side Story, Dune, Nightmare Alley, and more aren't some inaccessible films. It's that mainstream audiences have been hoodwinked into thinking that the only movies they should go see are franchises like Marvel movies and Jurassic Parks and Stars Wars and the like. I mean Schindler's List was a top 12 highest grossing movie domestically when it was out. That's no less "artsy" than the wide majority of films being nominated today. It isn't like the Academy is nominating like Holy Motors or Vitalina Varela for Best Picture. The most surprising thing they did recently was nominate Drive My Car which is mostly just a drama about a guy dealing with the guilt of his wife dying and there are a lot of scenes where he's directing a play. It's also like one of the most critically acclaimed films in years. If anything the more questionable nominees are the perceived crowd pleasers like King Richard, CODA, Belfast, Don't Look Up (using last year as an example) while the films closer to be thought of as "artsy" are generally reviewed as some of the best films of the year.

Also, I'm pretty sure most of the movies left on this list *are* critically acclaimed as well, aren't they?

Yeah, that's how I felt about a Girl Walks Home Alone too, and what makes me curious to watch it again, understanding that I might be on its wavelength next time I might like it more.

And I was about to say myself, I can't think of a single thing left that's boring either.

At most maybe Midsommar since as I put in my writeup there are parts where the main cast seem pretty inactive and combined with its runtime could feel like it's not getting anywhere but it's still unraveling a lot of weird and shocking stuff anyway. And I guess Lighthouse isn't all that plot driven but it's consistently surprising and really funny. And nothing else I think is remotely boring.

Snake5555555555 posted...

So, going into the list, I thought this film would be a lock for top 5 at WORST, little did I know it wouldn't even make the top ten!

Yesssssss

https://c.tenor.com/Bxq5uw0rJbUAAAAM/jack-nicholson-the-shining.gif

Inviso posted...

Yeah, the top of this list being stuffed with boring artsy crap, somewhat more interesting artsy crap, and Tucker & Dale somehow...yeesh.

Oh, no. Art. Please, no.

I mean, Train to Busan and A Quiet Place are pretty straight forward zombie and monster movies.

BetrayedTangy posted...

One of the most tense experiences I've had watching movies, has anyone seen Blue Ruin? I heard it's also pretty good.

Blue Ruin is great. Much lower budget of course but a great character driven revenge drama.

jcgamer107 posted...

Just saw Ti West's "X" from this year, and I think it would get half top 5 votes and half bottom 5 lol

Just watched that too. A little more conventional from what I've seen from West but thought it ruled.

BetrayedTangy posted...

Out of curiosity what's everyone's favorite 2010s horror movie that didn't make the list?

Under the Skin

Movie and film are interchangeable. Movies were just called films because they use to be shot on film. Now they can still be called that even though a bunch are shot digitally just because that's what films are. And I probably have a stronger taste for like arthouse and auteur filmmakers and such than probably the majority of people here.

And I agree with thesmark about discussing something as entertainment. It really just has to do with in which way a film intends to be engaged. Horror films for example, not including the comedic ones, aren't "fun" in the typical way one might think of as entertainment, but they're still engaging in their own way.

plasmabeam posted...

Nobody was ready with a Ready or Not wager (unless I overlooked a wager post), so the house wins, baby!

I was going to but I got distracted by telling someone not to respond to LMS. Damn.

I'm going to say The Babadook.

Corrik7 posted...

Get Out is basically the best of the films he has made (US is atrocious and I dunno how he could screw up Candyman the way he did).

The ending was interesting how he decided to do it though. I am not sure if it was better that way or not.

Us is great. He didn't direct Candyman.

Don't respond to LMS.

Sticking with Happy Death Day I suppose.

Glad to see You're Next go though. Think there's only 2 left in my bottom 20.

plasmabeam posted...

Groundhog Day. We're taking this outside.

The Shop Around the Corner

(Groundhog Day is great though)

jcgamer107 posted...

I envy you

Well, I had to see Bird Box and Terrifier for this so pain eventually finds us all.

Happy Death Day will probably be next.

Snake5555555555 posted...

I feel like Shyamalan almost directs those type of awkward performances on purpose. It reminds me of the stilted dialogue of older horror games. Though in the films I mostly think it's just plain bad and doesn't really add anything unlike the games.

I don't know Unbreakable, Sixth Sense, Signs, and Split seem to be fine with their performances. Even in some of his worst films (that I've seen at least) I don't really remember performances that bad.

I have not seen The Happening, Lady in the Water, or The Visit though.

BetrayedTangy posted...

Out of curiosity what did everyone think of Old? I thought it was a bit better than most of his stuff. That was one of the few instances where his concept kinda delivered imo.

I liked the concept but I think the script could have used a few more revisions, far too many clunky ways the people talk through the experience and information about what's happening that took me out of a lot of moments. Probably could have shot a few more takes too, some of those performances were just off and I know I've seen a handful of its cast really deliver otherwise in other movies.

I think it's shot pretty cool though. Gets a lot of its one location which doesn't have that many different features so it does this thing where it's framed close-ups of faces against background subjects and stuff, thought that was really cool.

You might say there are... multiple perspectives on this film!

I thought they were both okay.

Your mother did what?

Corrik7 posted...

Why are they "great" films?

I believe that discussion can be had when they appear on the list.

thesmark posted...

He wrote about why each of them are great that you will see whenever they come up

Sort of.

Film set negligence isn't creepy, it's asinine.

Corrik7 posted...

I now see the Peele movies, Lighthouse, and Hereditary super over ranks I feared are for sure happening.

Good. Those are all great films. One can only hope they're all ranked high.

Finally.

I would be pretty disappointed if It Follows is next as well.

I'm going to guess Creep as well, but Sinister might be close.

Suprak the Stud posted...

I definitely got the same vibes Lightning did. It isn't so much that I'm accusing them of having weak female characters. I mean, I am, but the male characters here are also awful too. The female characters are weak not because of misogyny but because the person writing this might've been two eight year olds sitting on each others shoulders inside a trench coat.

But the violence is highly sexualized. The male body count might be higher but at no point does the clown cut off one's dick and walk around as a penis unicorn. You're free to have your own interpretations, of course, but like Lightning I'm glad I watched this one alone.

What also sticks out about the one kill is that it's clearly the centerpiece of the movie and has to be the most expensive shot and effect in it. While all the other kills aren't shot that wide or they have much cheaper looking effects (like his gunfire or when he hits that guy with a hammer or whatever).

Inviso posted...

One thing I thought I put in my write-up, but I guess I forgot to do it. I hated the setting of Terrifier. The geography of the warehouse made no sense, so there was never a point where I really understood why the characters were in danger. Sometimes they'd wind up outside, and I'd think "Why are you not just running down the street? Why are you breaking back into another enclosed building where this maniac could be?"

I think it's supposed to be the basement of an apartment building or something but they might have just tried to cheat a warehouse for it because that was the location they haf access to. It's probably like that because they probably just shot there on nights they had access to it and didn't storyboard or block it properly. The whole thing has a "and then this happened" feel to it so there was probably just little planning put into the production side of it. It certainly looks incoherent and poorly staged.

Suprak the Stud posted...

Did I miss this? I might've misunderstood, but it was that Chucky killed this girl's dad and kidnapped her mom while she was already pregnant. ...right?

Yeah, you'd be correct. That's what actually happened.

Yeah, tbf I also was never really able to get into AHS though I have friends who love it.

I wish I could because the cast looks pretty neat, from season to season and some of the regulars. Love Sarah Paulson, Danny Huston, Chlo Sevigny, Jessica Lange...

I think Betty Gilpin is very good in it but the extent of its political tribalism satire is just a bunch of smug cheap caricatures mined from the most absurd posts you'd see on like Twitter or internet comment sections. It never really works or is all that funny because it's so content to reach for low hanging fruit and it doesn't even have the convictions to go all the way in the end anyway.

Suprak the Stud posted...

The Hunt has Emma Roberts and Betty Gilpin and thus can't possibly suck.

Pretty sure I've never seen Emma Roberts in a good movie. Palo Alto might be all right though. I haven't seen that yet tbf

EDIT: The Blackcoat's Daughter is very good. Nevermind.

But have you ever seen The Art of Getting By? Ooof. I saw that in theater for free and I still overpaid.

Inviso posted...

I think The Hunt (it counts as a horror movie, right?) should be on a new list, if only because of how much discourse it got prior to release. Plus, it seems like it's pretty cool.

Nah, The Hunt sucks and it only got a bunch of discourse because of fake outrage campaigns over it anyway.