Lurker > Chaeix

Chaeix posted...

In post 13 you directly gave me attention and referred to me but then waited to ask me further questions.

if your questions were relevant to me explaining myself, why didnt they come up during this window where you wanted me to explain myself?

Sultan still needs to answer this question btw

i dont believe Ive seen it addressed

htaeD posted...

Which question was that?

I was looking at the start of the day since where Sbell and IGCd called Sultan scum with little apparent reasoning.

Whether the chain hunt was optional

so lets see

sultan is on me because he thinks Im independent
corrik is on me because he thinks Im independent
red will inevitably be on me because he refuses to believe my role is anything but scum
idk whether dumey thinks Im scum or Indy tbh

but aside from dumey we have two people who dont want to lynch scum and one person demonstrating the mental flexibility of uncooked spaghetti

i hope this is a confidence inspiring lynch for all you town members who actually want to hunt scum

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I also ended up getting busy lol

What about when Ben googled the Lament Configuration on page 1(I think) of day 2 and clearly connected it to Pinhead? You didnt need my claim to be able to connect the Lament Configuration/Chain Hunt to Pinhead.

htaeD posted...

Honestly I dont fully trust either of Sultan or JC at this stage.
Though rereading the topic did make me wonder when and why the tide turned against Sultan again in the first place.

This seems like a pretty weird comment to me. It was noticeably strange that, after all that was said yesterday, Sultan came in and asked a question which had already been answered multiple times allegedly based off information hes had since the start of d2. Kinda opened himself up to a lot of questions

Leafeon13N posted...

My guy, you are literally claiming a fucking scum role.

So is Ashe I think.

And then IGCD seems to have Sultan dead to rights(hes just being not vocal enough i think).

There isn't a lot to converse about.

yeah kill red

wallmasterz posted...

Chris van Hansen, SOLO QUEUE Vampire/Scum Hunter. Take a seat, scum.

if this was a joke you missed a great chance to make a Predator Predator line

##vote: red

may as well put my money where my mouth is

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

JC who would you lynch today

Well this is great timing because speak of the devil but probably red. Im iffy on you at the moment because of your timing about asking me questions but at the very least your intuitive timing matches up with mine to some extent. If youre town and I get lynched, game is over because I flip town and then people lynch you. I am specifically iffy of you though given that you have, as scum, tried to claim a role that plays off mine (when I was Weak Tracker). Speaking of, Sultan can you answer my question about post 13 on the last page?

But red is because of all the people who have been nudging me out the door, red just keeps coming in with these little comments reinforcing that I should go, or am scum, or am hard to believe, without fully explaining things, exploring things, or offering much other content. It just reeks as scum nudging town towards a mislynch and then next day he goes well it was an easy mistake to make and then he slides back into the background.

Scum knows that Im town (or I suppose allegedly potentially Indy) and wants me lynched either way. There is serious scum equity in wanting me lynched, so its really a matter of narrowing it down.

Would also happily vote Corrik but I was wrong about him not offering any reads and need to consider them in context

wallmasterz posted...

Jc maybe youre town, Im trying to be open to that, but if you are its absolute bs you to go I got this sweet role I lied about, I decided to kill because I was feeling petty and why not use my role and this is fun immediately followed by wahhh look at me always getting these insane roles if I get mislynched for walking like scum and quacking like scum by choosing to commit the optional kill my role has I may never play mafia again >:-(

like bro. I like you but get outta town. I hope youre scum honestly it will just make this self preservation and not for real

theres a difference between getting lynched for the way I played the role and simply being the role.

im okay with the former, no complaints about that, its really only if someone does no critical thinking and just calls the role scum by virtue of existing where I get frustrated.

the way I played it was terrible and is absolutely deserving of rebuke. no defending that. but this is mafia and play deserving of rebuke =/= scum and lynching me because you just refuse to believe my role is town is lazy. obviously sometimes its hard to untangle those two concepts but when people are saying oh well this role just screams scum of course Im going to view peoples pressure as being based solely off the role because thats the impression they have left me with. Take Corrik for example. He just refuses to believe my role could be town and is lynching me on that basis.

its just a tricky spot for me because youre all like wow how can you come in and just ask us to blindly believe you, but like what else am I supposed to do? Come in and not ask you to believe me? Its not like I can give any more information and at this point you all certainly dont trust me so I cant really ask for trust. Blind faith is really all I can lean on given my actions.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Wanted to give JC a chance to exsplain himself more or less

In post 13 you directly gave me attention and referred to me but then waited to ask me further questions.

if your questions were relevant to me explaining myself, why didnt they come up during this window where you wanted me to explain myself?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Seems like either Sultan or JC has to be scum, yes? Sultan sounds like a role that could have told scum what town can do just as much as the other way around. Or am I crazy thinking that?

I also have no idea why a scum team would play the box the way JC did. That'd be claiming scum. That said, the role does not feel like a town role, and JC keeps talking about "town equity" in such a way that raises my eyebrow. That sounds like something scum would say. The other posts - "when I flip town" and "gosh, why do I get these insane roles where nobody believes me every time I'm town?" - definitely scream town to me. So I don't know what to make of him.

Especially if FD was indeed town. Why would JC use the box so early instead of saving it for later, if he had the choice?

for what its worth Ive been repeatedly saying town equity because people kept asking me to state what the town equity in my play was

I agree that it sounds janky when I keep having to say this is my own equity!11!!1

Obellisk posted...

just seems like it's such an up in the air situation right now, figured someone would have called for it by now (ie: corrik)

I was actually surprised by the fact corrik hadnt come into today demanding a mass claim because it seems like something in his playbook

also this probably shouldnt be read into toooo much but Im inclined to further my belief that SBell is probably not scum because he could have checked scumchat and known if there was/wasnt a massclaim to come back to

Corrik7 posted...

I posted a list of where my mind is.

Ill be honest I had only seen post 185 and had missed 183 until now, thats entirely egg on my face re: my comments about your provision of reads today.

@death the day would have kept going and we would have lynched someone, and FD would have gotten confirmation I was Jeff/Elliott(Pinhead) - which is only relevant if I havent already claimed pinhead. The main disincentive to sparing is if I havent claimed and dont want to reveal my identity, but I already had.

so corrik whos scum if im indy

Bomberman

EDumey posted...

This just reads like more, "Guys my role was REALLY designed as a scum role, but I needed to lie to manipulate town into playing along and not lynch me."

God I hope you're scum JC. You should have just not revealed yourself, or not lied about anything.

thats exactly how it should read, the role looks like it was designed as a scum role. but it wasnt. so I lied to keep people from lynching me.

like if I had said the default was spare and FD didnt open the box, you guys would have just lynched me, solved the box, and spared someone. its a nulltell at best and at worst because regardless of alignment its self-interest

I dont see the problem with pointing out that trying to lynch someone you think is Indy is a detriment to actual scum hunting. Its just the truth.

if I get lynched today, when I flip town, I would encourage people look at the grand total of 0 scumhunting corrik is doing, hes going to go into d4 with 0 actual opinions on anyone in the game because hes coasting on lynching me as an independent instead of actual scumhunting.

Sultans role actually makes sense then? He gets told Pinhead exists N1. There is Pinhead somewhere in the game. If I dont activate the chain hunt, then we know there is Pinhead with some weird power lurking around somewhere.

I think your PM was just referring to the existence of the chain hunt, because I cheated and changed the game rules to the Lament Configuration/Chain Hunt and hijacked things.

Still have absolutely no idea where Sultans question of did you have to comes from this but the timing of his intuitive trait giving him that info checks out.

The last thing I want is to get lynched, flip town, and then have people automatically go oh sultan is scum because jc was town and then town loses the game.

Corrik7 posted...

Dude literally just said neener neener pumpkin eater you can't lynch me even if you wanted to. Ha ha.

God damn.

this seems like a weird post to get that take from

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

It was passive I was just told.

And it says Pinehead doesn't follow the rules.

Which night?

htaeD posted...

If Sultan is telling the truth, I feel like taking control of the day would only work as a warning if both of the Box's outcomes would end the day.
I dont recall what the Spare option did mechanically tho.

But all of it sounds like such a vague and potentially misleading scan.

oh I did lie about one other thing yesterday oops

i said the default if someone picked up the box was to kill if I didnt make a choice but it was to spare. I just didnt want you guys having reason to just vote me out, have someone spared, and then youd move on like nothing happened >_>

very greedy and definitely not much town equity but yeah

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Mine just told me directly that Pinehead cheats and to not interact with it.

It sounds like the ability was inevitable and would happened during the game based on how it was worded.

As soon as you claimed I was like oh fuck. Okay don't mess with the box. Though I should have realized earlier when it said nothing could be done until the box was resolved. Definitely didn't put 2 and 2 together

Interesting.

A few questions - when did you scan me? Did you actually scan me or does your intuitive trait just give PMs?

Also why does Pinhead cheats mean you jumped to the conclusion that I had to use it as either a mandatory thing or wincon?

EDumey posted...

You may be mixing up the trait names a little? Sultan is claimed Intuitive, just like you.

Ashethan is the one that claimed Inquisitive, just like Ben.

Oh no I misread and thought he scanned and got info on my Intuitive trait

also to be clear I was answering yes I had a choice with my answer #2 at the top of my post there

1) yeah I guess I probably wasnt lynched as town doomed, still traumatizing though
2) I said this last day but part of the reason I used it was because the next time I could use it was in advance of D4 (and Id have to be alive going into D4). Do I ever make it to D4? Rarely.

Sultan can you clarify exactly what you mean by your suggestion that Pinhead had to be used?

Because yes, the intuitive trait had to manifest N1 to allow me to become Elliott/Pinhead, and yes, youre correct that Pinhead takes over the entire day, but also taking over the entire day is not because of my intuitive trait.

My intuitive trait is what allowed me to access the Chain Hunt early. It was the Game Master trait of Elliotts that actually *is* the chain hunt (Elliott is Game Master Sadist Metalhead). Sadist was my ability to spare or kill after the chain hunt (not sure I said that explicitly with my claim).

So I need more info from you Sultan.

Also Sultan what makes your role different from Bens scans?

also if I get lynched for a third time for having a town role that is so stupid that it people cant believe it (lets be real, youre lynching the role more than me) I probably wont return to mafia again ever.

thats not a threat not to lynch me, Im not going to have a tantrum or anything, but holy shit Im tired of having my time wasted by rolling things that people refuse and believe are actual things. hated townie, town doomed, and this are all fucking cursed.

dumey I lied about the BP/untargetability so that I could have some way of potentially impacting scum night action decisions. plus if I come in and say oh yeah the only thing that happens if I spare someone is they get my role/flavor I dont even get a benefit then thats even less believable. I get theres not much town equity in lying but when you have a truth that people clearly have trouble believing it makes sense to try to make it more conceptually palatable.

my load is blown, I cant kill someone again. Corriks suggestion I have to kill more people to fulfill something is hilarious and like Death said this would be even stupider as Indy. If I was Indy I would have just killed and not claimed and also I would have *probably had a safelist*.

btw even if I was Indy, lynching Indy today seems like a terrible move numbers-wise

Balloons

Auron
cecil

have we figured out of theres actually any meaning to the killer/survivor distinction? I mean, what does ashethans scan actually tell us since Bens role says scum is Kill Your Friends or whatever it was like that?

if both town and scum have killer/survivor and theres no deeper meaning, ashethans scan is much less valuable

spicy

wallmasterz posted...

Why do you have one of Brohan and me? Based on your post shouldnt that be Sultan and me?

I mean for crying out loud hosts flavor text when the chain hunt began involved a chain striking a survivor and they cry out in pain or something like that. Doesnt sound the towniest.

youre unrealistic if youre blaming people for not going yeah Im willingly to just blindly believe he did this as town

Also why the focus on me specifically when Im not the only person who showed minimal willingness to see you and your role as town?

If Im mislynched, I will flip town. Am I right in understanding youd be convinced Sultan is 100% scum at that point?

Absolutely hate the bolded text. we are all survivors and killers. conflating violence with non-towniness is just terrible game meta.

Anyways on to the questions. it's not between you and brohan. it's between red and brohan. i feel like they're occupying a pretty similar space in the game right now.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything, you explicitly said that you don't believe that the endgame win thing was possible when you said "I think FD winning the game is utter bullshit". The problem is that it is. Simple as that. So I'm not blaming you for anything, I'm saying that you're wrong and your steadfastness in your wrongness on that specific point is worse than anything I've seen Sultan do.

The focus was on you because it was SBell asked me to make a choice between you and Sultan for the sake of that particular discussion. I have included several people who threw shade at me on my scum list. You were not singled out on that point, that point was just relevant to a discussion in which you were singled out.

and as of right now, sultan is probably scum if you flip town. it's a pretty bad look for him.

Chaeix posted...

yes i was very open to discussion about sparing someone, but not unless we 'just all agree'. fd did not give us the opportunity to agree on squat.

fix'd because that was a non-sentence idk how i omitted 3 whole words

Ashethan posted...

My question for you is: Was there ever a chance you'd have spared someone there? Like if we had a longer discussion about it?

Chaeix posted...

I will say explicitly that no carrot has been dangled in front of me with respect to either option. Something could happen to Metalhead when I turn back to Jeff if I kill for example. I have no idea. I would not be surprised and of course will share the result with everyone, but as of right now, there is nothing.

because i like to have fun while playing mafia and am not about to deprive myself of a chance to use a silly ability where worst case scenario we can just all agree that i spare someone?

yes i was very open to discussion about sparing someone, but not 'just all agree'. fd did not give us the opportunity to agree on squat.

yeah, there was a lot to be discussed and people just poo-poo'd the entire thing, which has definite scum equity in it (the poo-pooing).

people appeared to believe the scumteam being roleblocked was not worth town being fully roleblocked but we didn't even get into a discussion on the merits of that. how does that change the overall pace of the game if town agrees not to solve the box? like, maybe the end result would have been that it was a bad idea but there was shit to talk about so when someone says 'i don't see what kind of fun fd ruined' it's pretty clear that we could have had fun with the role, y'all are just lazy

changmas posted...

i'm straight up counterculture posting right now though because wallz and death look worst to me, opportunistically jumping on ashe. i feel like there has to be a scum between them, surely

death has probably made the least impression on me of anyone that has been relatively active and i'm not sure what to think about it. will have to review him.

also, another thought experiment for the townsfolk:

what is the scum equity in claiming that i can win someone the game instead of pursuing literally any other course of action. that is the dumbest form of lie i could possibly have come up with.

like it's so stupid it can't possibly not be true. i couldn't come up with it and it's not like a hypothetical scumbuddy would suggest that it was a good idea and encourage me

changmas coming in hot with some of the best townposting of the day

i only just realized this was the scum team name after glossing over it because it wasn't capitalized - "Kill Your Friends team" - from ben's role

Sultan, how different was your feline grace flavour text from Ulti's? Is it possible that Inquisitive could mean such different things?

Despite the name being the same the scans do appear to target different things - effectively the difference between a rolecop and a regular cop, which also both have 'cop' in the name.

Do we know if Ben was in fact an even night scanner? I wasn't 100% sure if the flip was 'as he died' or 'as he started the game' tbh. Ashethan's scan being on a different night does make it look somewhat appealing as a complementary and converse kind of scan on a different night.

ashethan what would you have actually claimed if you had been forced to claim d1?

hi all - before i get started i would once again like to ask you all what the scum equity in this play is. i was not forced to claim, and could have just left people to wonder what the box was, and then decide to spare or kill silently. if i was deadset on killing someone, i would not have claimed and would have just silently killed whoever opened the box. also fd is not coming back there is no grand revival gimmick.

EDumey posted...

JC did you know that killing FD there would end the day? I asked you a question about what would happen if we lynched you after someone picked up the box, and you conveniently chose to not answer that question.

realized i didn't respond to this. well in all honesty when i read through the role i missed that it would end day and then by the time i realized i had already claimed and decided to just leave it instead of coming across as even more inconsistent and floundering.

i would also encourage you to consider that scum knows that i am town and is now panicking over whether i have some secret reward for killing someone. your argument for why i am scum applies equally to why i am town tbh. did i get more than just untargetability?

red13n posted...

The order of events here needs clarification.

thanks for reading the exchange where FD and i clarified this. it's in the topic, probably page 5 or 6, have at er. i did get knowledge of the switch in advance because of my intuitive trait. bark up a tree that has fruit, red.

Obellisk posted...

Sultan, JC, Wallz. 1 of you is guaranteed scum. Please state the case for the one that is and the one that isn't (other than yourself)

wallz not being even willing to engage with the concept of my role in an absurd game like this is somewhat distressing. there was clearly some weird shit going on with my role.

anyways there is absolutely no doubt that there is some scum in the group of people that have brought my name up today. i'm the obvious lynch target and as i just mentioned, if i still have some kind of reward, they want town to waste a lynch on me instead of themselves having to waste a night kill on me at some point in the game.

i'm having trouble reading sultan this game tbh. it seems weird that his scumlist is so limited and so poe. it's a lot of low hanging fruit. i don't think sultan would go for a scumbuddy with me in his poe. and i don't think scumbuddies sultan and wallz would be so split on their opinions of me.

that's all to say i would lynch wallz before sultan at this exact point in time and if wallz is scum then sultan is almost definitely not scum. honestly probably just a coin toss on them being scum, 1 is.

htaeD posted...

##Vote: Ashe

This Inquisitive is also way more powerful than Bens was

This does line up with my theory that JC's shenanigans were a way to get Ashe out of the limelight, since the timing was very convenient.

go for ash idc, the chain hunt started before there was really any limelight

i feel more strongly about individuals' towniness than scumminess this game and this is my 5-person poe (5/17 isn't too much?). there is a lot of inactivity in there which i don't like, and probably just the right amount of OMGUS? i dunno, i feel kind of like i'm just saying words

1. Ashethan
3. Corrik7 / Corrik
7. IfGodCouldDie / IGCD
10. red13n / Leafeon13n ONE OF 12. UltimateBrohan / Brohan
13. wallmasterz / Wallz

Vanille
kefka

Wars

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Why not?

read start of day 2 idk where and then post 218 onward from this page

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80609880?page=4

I'm going to go back and do some rereading tomorrow but Corrik is flying far too under the radar for my liking.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

What is your claim and why did you claim?

go read the last topic it is not a simple answer.

straight up I am just not expending effort on it

red13n posted...

This is basically my feeling on JC's role and we don't have any town motivation to think hes town.

red I need you to remember that in the past year I have gotten Hated Townie and Town Doomed (literally just dies in 3 days)

if I get a fun ass role I am blowing my load

I think what you are struggling with is seeing the role as town, not me as town using the role

changmas posted...

alright fair enough
i think jc is town and shouldn't be killed and i'd prefer if we didn't spend 24 hours asking him questions

we should just kill IGCD, he's assuredly scum

Im sitting here trying to remember what IGCD has done other than get into a first-topic tangle with Ben

did he even post d2

(And because it was only implied, yes, I had the choice)

changmas posted...

JC did you actually have the option between saving and killing FD because i assumed that was a lie

and if so, why did you choose to kill within like 2 minutes

because he chose to open the box within like 2 minutes

tit for tat

i am that petty

and to clarify, because Im at a football game and paying half attention, the BP lie was that I did not actually get a one use BP if I spared someone. the reward for killing someone was one night of untargetability but obviously nobody is going to confirm that and out themselves if they found out

Obellisk posted...

I don't know what your fun was exactly.

could you describe it and the town equity in killing someone who it seems you knew was town.

my fun was people engaging with my role and debating the merits of different courses of action instead of, with nobody around, solving the box

we dont even know if FD was town but can operate on that basis.

the town equity was hoping that Id get some reward for killing him. I became untargetable last night, but I knew that in advance. The BP lie was because I WAS FULLY READY TO SPARE SOMEONE IF PEOPLE AGREED, AS I SAID EXPLICITLY, and give scum a reason to be worried about trying to shoot me in that case.

obviously I lied about untargetable so I could draw scum actions but the day did not pan out in a way that I think I actually drew any scum actions so its a wash