Lurker > Alany

Lopen posted...

I've been told by Eddv that Phazon needs Samus to get within 5-10 feet for it to start hurting her from just the radiation which I dunno I think Vanille can probably survive this.

Samus is wearing a suit that protects her from the environment Lopen. And later on she's specifically wearing a suit that protects her from Phazon.

Why wouldn't Samus be more resistant to it's effects?

FFDragon posted...

nope.jpg

Arguably Damus has regeneration regardless of Phazon absorbtion, but I suppose that goes against the spirit of the character upgrade.

Regardless, uh... With Vanille dead Diablo doesn't have many avenues of attack to be honest. It's pretty one-sided here.

Damus
Damus self-heals, is in a terrain that empowers her and is fighting one squishy character with no resistance to Phazon and one character that can't fly while she can.

Lopen posted...

Probably goes to the judges

I just re-read the topic title but I didn't see any of the regular "Boxing match" shit in it. I don't think this is a boxing match as much as a punch out to the death.

Nevermind, I am retarded. It's exactly the same as it usually is.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Raiden would SOLO Lu Bu, come on now.

With everything he has on him, yeah. But I'm assuming here that he can't get to the other side, hence why I brought up movement speed and the fact I don't believe the terrain provides enough sneaking potential (especially with a guide).

Couple that with TPing not being a thing, Zeratul's tracking and telepathy and whatnot and honestly this looks pretty clear cut to me.

ZeeksFire posted...

Raiden isn't a native to Limsa Lominsa, the use of aetherite is not a valid argument (you have to attune each crystal seperately)

Oh, in that case this is even more of a stomp.

On another note, what blades are the replacements? HF blades like in the fight after Raiden actually gets his shit back? That would actually mean Zeratul's pretty stronk and that you've given Lu Bu a MASSIVE strength upgrade.

Hell, HF Blade > Gun Blade too. Selveria and Turok get nerfed admittedly though.

I'd respect Red Hare with a sword.

Lu Bu on Red Hare actually has absurd movement speed. Going by him in the games he can cover this terrain in under 30 seconds or so. He can, incidentally carry a few people with him. In this case that'd likely be devoted Selvaria riding backseat. Personally I find this combo pretty damn powerful and while the two alone wouldn't be able to kill the enemy team, it'd be enough to knock out nude Raiden and probably Y'sh. Might die to Kefka.

I personally think Lu Bu on Red Hare has both the disregard for his own team and the might to carve a swathe through the enemy team here if he finds them. Looking at the terrain, personally I think it's more than possible for Lu Bu to find them.

Corrik posted...

instanaeous teleport.

Uh, misspelling aside, Scorpion creates portals. He basically has a portal gun. It's not "I vanish and end up here", it's "I jump through a portal"

eaedwards6400 posted...

And Fetch is taking them both!

Honestly this match is closer than I'm giving it credit for. The only reason I'm not voting for you is because of KIRBY RESPECT!

eaedwards6400 posted...

To your point then it is definitely breakingand Sora and Booker fall to their death.

SORA GLIDES.

BOOKER DIES.

Lopen posted...

Clouds that can support weight-- probably about on par with a WWE ring.

I mean, clouds that
Johnbobb posted...

"if a floating eyeball rubs on them enough, they explode"

Shit goes both ways here. If they're going through it, it clearly isn't going to damage them that much at all.

I mean, if we're including the terrain as a thing then getting your head smashed into fluffy clouds... Doesn't actually seem that bad? A suplex depends on the environment you're suplexing them into. If you're suplexing them through air then it isn't really going to hurt now, is it?

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Because she's unhittable by Songbird. Songbird can think, it's not going to waste time trying to attack air.

I guesssss? Songbird never struck me as something immensely intelligent. If she's materializing at all he'd be going after it, in my opinion.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Watch for literally four seconds. You see Fetch turns into wisps of neon. There's no 'aggro tank' nonsense at play there, Songbird literally can't hurt her because he's working with pure brute force. And why would she hold aggro when she's a cloud of neon particles? You think Songbird, once the 'taunt effect' is off, is gonna focus on a neon cloud he can't hurt over real people, and in particular over Booker? Whom it tries to kill SUPER HARD across Bioshock Infinite?

Booker's falling forever to his death. So in that situation either he flies after booker into the bottomless death field (In which case it's Sora & Archirby VS Fetch) or he's fighting whoever is nearby. Which would be Fetch because why wouldn't she be attacking the closest enemy?

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Fetch has homing attacks, bullet time, and can also teleport to strike dudes (+ has superspeed)

Like, I'm looking at Fetch and going "She's pretty good", issue is she's surrounded by fodder that Song bird can just fly through and kill. So she basically has to solo tank Songbird for 30 seconds and she still holds the aggro past that. Kinda a bad situation.

eaedwards6400 posted...

Then why does the prebattle phase exist? Why do we go through that entire thing? At this point those abilites are useless because the voters are completely ignoring those actions and just picking based on nothimg else.

Like, okay. Let's assume for a moment it destroys the clouds.

Kirby survives through float. Sora survives through glide. Booker probably dies.

Ok, so, that's Kirby and Sora VS Leon, Brock and Fetch. Leon and Brock are basically fodder and don't matter at all to the match. So now we've got Song Bird VS Sora, Fetch and Kirby.

Personally I feel a Kirbaladbolg would probably take down/injure Songbird enough, but removing him from the equation because no one will ever respect Sora. We've got a 3 way of Sora, Fetch and Songbird. Personally outta the three I respect dodgetank-self healing-blender Sora.

Let's ignore the songbird a moment.

Kirby Caladbolg

S O L O S

Lopen posted...

Well is he rushing in an attempt to trample or using breath weapons.

I mean, it's not hard to breath and move. You do it all the time when you run.

Lopen posted...

Kalina Ann has a grappling hook that she uses to zip around, in the DMC3 boss fight in particular. She's got a lot more than just running at her disposal for mobility.

Which easily telegraphs where she's going. That means Grigori can just fire breath the entire area or body slam it.

Lopen posted...

She reloads like 6 times in a few seconds in cutscenes while actively dodging and has a ' virtually limitless ' supply of ammo. I don't think reloading is remotely an issue.

She reloads 6 times while being in an almost stationary position against Mooks, yeah. That's not going to help against Grigori, she's going to have to be on the move 24/7 to dodge Grigori and even then he'll be able to outrun her simply by nature of size. He doesn't even really need to hit her, just stampeding over her would put her out of action.

greengravy294 posted...

Lady is pretty accurate at all things not killing "Mr. Perfect" Dante honestly.

Yeah, sure. Not going to dispute that. But does she have 6 reloads worth of time against a giant dragon that's constantly hounding her?

I don't think so.

Lopen posted...

Alany posted...

Assuming 1 arrow = 1 bullet here, she'd have to fire 185 bullets straight into his weak point unerringly

So with her rate of fire this takes a few seconds. Good selling Lady over Grigori here

Lady utilizes twoCZ-75 and a korpion vz. 61. The former has 20 rounds each and the latter can be 10 or 20 or 30 rounds. For a total this makes 70 rounds + Kalina Ann. Ignoring Ann and assuming 20vz rounds, she'd need to reload at least 6 times with all of the stated weaponry and one more time with any of the above, assuming every single one of her shots hits.

If she goes down to 1/2 shots hits, she has to reload 15 times. Assuming she hits 1/4th? She has to reload 31 times. This is of course even assuming she carries that much ammunition with her, a total of 724 rounds with the rocket launcher.

Corrik posted...

FFDragon posted...

Damus could take Lady 1v1 too tbqh

Be aclose one.

Damus requires HYPER MODE SAMUS to even damage her. Lady's conventional bullets will do SHIT ALL to Damus. Not to mention she's going to die to Phazon if anything of Damus gets close to her.

Drakeryn posted...

I'm thinking Grigori has never faced an individual enemy of Lady's skill before.

Grigori is a dragon the size of a sky scraper. I don't think "Skill" matters as much as "Running speed" here. And her, being human, is going to run out of breath really damn quickly. There's nowhere to hide from him to catch her breath and she can't kill him in 10 bullets here.

greengravy294 posted...

Lady survives a fight against not trying Dante, which is a feat in itself I feel.

Lady survives a fight against a Dante who actively gets himself shot fighting her so she doesn't die. He's holding back 24/7 and he's NEVER fighting her with an ounce of malice.

Every single time they meet he styles over her. Missile from Kalina Ann? Surfs it into the ceiling. Shoots at him with bullets? He shoots his own bullets into them in bullet-time mode. Hand to hand combat? Don't even dream of her coming close to him.

Dante is in such a league different to Lady it's ridiculous to compare the two in the same sentence. In Devil May Cry humans are on a power level so different to (named) Demons it's ridiculous. Her most impressive feats in that game is clearing mooks with explosives and even that she has to TRY and TRY HARD to achieve, utilizing everything she has available to her.

Lady is strong and she is great. But against big, strong and tough opponents like Grigori with huge AoE attacks? She genuinely is out of her league and class.

Drakeryn posted...

I would totally take Lady to 1v1 Grigori unless Grigori decided to 100% abuse his flight to stay out of her range and firebomb

Lady just doesn't have an answer to a Grigori bodyslam though, honestly. She's on a building? Grigori knocks down the entire building with her on it.

And like, let's do a damage calculation for Grigori here. The best longbow, Revenant Wail in Dragon's Dogma deals 800 base damage. Grigori has 260 defense. So, that means the best longbow deals damage to Grigori 540 damage without any modifiers.

Grigori has 100k health. Assuming 1 arrow = 1 bullet here, she'd have to fire 185 bullets straight into his weak point unerringly, all while dodging a sky-scraper length dragon with huge amounts of flame breath.

Personally I don't think Lady has the capabilities to both identify that weak point and not get hit eventually. She's good but she's definitively not that good.

Yeah, Lady's got some RIDICULOUS gunplay and does bullet-timing shit 24/7. She's like a Matrix character with bullet time and shit.

But that just doesn't really help when Grigori just absorbs bullets 24/7 and everyone else who matters tanks/dodges on the enemy team.

Corrik posted...

What disbelief does it take? Once Scorpion teleports onto Grigori and slays the beast with his hard counter, the enemy team is demoralized. Their biggest threat and teammate went down before their eyes and had no effect on the match.

Corrik. Like, really.

Scorpion does not take down a titanic dragon within one attack. Or ten attacks. Or one hundred.

Grigori has enough strength to snap the chains, if his scales don't just no sell his weapons.

And hell, if he can't? Grigori can just roll over. One dead or removed scorpion.

Honestly, even Ansem and Damus could win here just together. Lightning could win alone. Grigori could win alone too. Alucard can't though.
So...
DARKNESS!
PHAZON!
DRAGON!
GODDESS!
And Kyo and some vampire I guess?

Eddv posted...

Plus Nick is highly probably also bound by the totem.

Eddv, I went over this discussion with prior. Passive equipment is A-OK inside the barrier and Nick is basically passive equipment.

Honestly though outside of that incredibly niche literal head keychain this match is entirely in Jim's bag.

Jim I would have voted for Nick if someone convinced me.

On another more serious note of this match. I don't know about Lollypop chainsaw, so if someone can help me understand a little bit about it.

Juliet is the only one trapped. This means Nick is free to do as he wishes. Can Nick in the time it takes for Jim (who absolutely 100% knows his only opponent is trapped) to free her?

And if not, can Nick talk/deceive Jim into letting her free?

DeathChicken posted...

Ooh, who is the replacement? Given what's been displayed here they'd either have to be the dumbest son of a bitch alive, a masochist to even top me(!), or just some poor dude naive enough to not have seen the freight train coming quite yet

Well...

Corrik posted...

I think Akuma and Zack Fair are trash abd can ve discarded

I completely disagree here. While Zack Fair is not on the leve of Id, Vergil or otherwise, he's still managed to fight Sephiroth on equal ground. He's a great and tanky combatant in his own right and deserves his fair share of this fight. Even as pre-soldier he fought a keyblade wielder as a boss.

While he is certainly not the most important, throwing him out with the dishwater is absolute folly.

Akuma is also a credible opponent, with multiple speed, strength, stamina and power feats. He's not the one to change this match's outcome, but he's capable of fighting Revan, Zack and Id. I don't think he's outright win those in 1vs1s in his current form, but he's capable of abusing the numbers advantage.

Dark Samus
Honestly Grigori swings this match for me. With Lightning, Ansem and Grigori on the frontline with a midline of duo-agents and Damus I can't see the opponents winning.

Skyridge87 posted...

Well, if you'd look at Pit's writeup and my explanation of the bombs, you'd know he has all arm weapons and cancer claws, both which have ranged attacks.

I completely missed that post, but huh. I somehow thought you meant actual and literal bombs rather than the shoot-em-up desperation attack bomb.

Hrm. Generally not sure how to interpret that at all, if it should even be included.

As an idle note... Can someone confirm if Pit actually has any other ranged weapons equipped bar the Arrow of Light and the Dark Pit Staff? We've talked a lot about bombs and such in the match.

On a further note, investigation finds that Neptune throughout the series is most certainly not a buffing or support character. All of her buffs are single target, her SP is lower than most and her stats are geared up specifically for close quarters physical combat with her sword. Most guides I've found support it and information too.

Eddv posted...

Taking tom at his word here
Stat Multiplier buffs durability, speed, and special attack/defense! She also has a strength buff.

Yes, especially since Neptune and Pit still exist and Death is a big in the way body.

Holy fuck finding information about this game is impossible.

But let's clear some things up. From what I've found buffs give around 20-40% stat increases. But much like most hardcore JRPGs they only last a few turns and are not lengthy in time at all.

Neptune's most powerful buff "Stat multiplier" costs 500 out of her 2500 SP pool. She already sacrifices 20% of it to utilize her HDD form which allows her to fly and be competent in combat. This means while she van buff the two, she can only do so 4 times and each one will only last a few "turns".

I don't feel this is enough to turn the tide of battle against enemies like this myself, even assuming perfect usage. But I hope that cleared up/explained what Tom didn't, I certainty can't blame him as finding all of this was really damn hard.

Eddv posted...

and on this terrain that really matters if neptune gets her buffs on Zero and Rock there is literally no stopping them.

Why though? What do her buffs provide that allow them to solo Diablo, Armstrong and Bass?

Eddv posted...

My big thing here is I just think Zero eats Ryus lunch here and that once that man advantage gets going its gonna be hars to stop Zero with flanking help from rock and Death AND an extra life to boot.

Don't quite see how you're going on this note though, about Ryu at least. Disregarding our respect for the guy, if Zero is engaging in close combat he has to deal with Diablo and Armstrong and with the HoTS addition there's slows, stuns and grapples to contend with there.
Neptune isn't reliable back up for melee and as Bass can cover for the whole team with his barriers, going into melee is basically suicide for Zero. His second life doesn't even proc if he dies first either, which is the big kicker here. If Zero dies before Mega man then there's no second Zero, which means all melee power on the team is neutered.

Eddv posted...

nah that bridge is actually about the size I was envisioning actually.

it allows people to MAYBE go two wide but thats only what 10 ish feet wide

Wouldn't that play to Armstrong's favor here then? Personally I don't think anything in this match, even Diablo could stop Armstrong at a full-pelt straight forward charge. If MM tried to stop that without some serious tricks I don't yet know of, he'd be a mega bucket of bolts by the end of it.

Skyridge87 posted...

The literal second half of the post you quoted says he's flying using the Wings of Pegasus, one of the Three Sacred Treasures, which he has. Because Tom used the ability.

Bleh, sorry. It's late here. Never mind.

Drakeryn posted...

I get my sacred treasures mixed up. The Three Sacred Treasures isn't the mech, right? It's other stuff?

Yup, Three sacred isn't mecha. The Great Sacred Treasure is mecha.

Skyridge87 posted...

Well, the only thing his writeup specifically disallows is being connected to goddesses and the power of flight,

If he can't fly, I'm curious as to why this terrain is so great for them. The only one with true flight would then be Neptune. Anyone else on an island would have to deal with red lightning hose and other islands being thrown at them by Armstrong, which I thought would be workable with flight harassment with Pit, but if he can't truly fly (and exceedingly fast) as he does in the segments of the game I'm not sure if the hit and run tactic is quite so feasible.