Lurker > fire_bolt

MZero11 posted...

Cause I'm 100% not claiming today so don't waste your time imo

I will 100% lynch you today. Either you can claim or we can read you flip. Anyone not being a team player is scum, or at least making plays that support scum instead of town.
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Please, call me Bolt

IfGodCouldDie posted...

This post says he believes that I and whoever the other person that is voting Corri is who he thinks is scum

Glossed over the first part of this post before.

Why yes, looking at it, it DOES look like I'm calling you and Lea scum. Sounds about right.
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Please, call me Bolt

IfGodCouldDie posted...

attacking the player he believes to be town.

Reminder I'm not attacking anyone. I'm looking for claims. Lopen is the one who has been antagonizing me for the last few hours. He did the same thing last game so I didn't really expect anything except childishness from him anyway
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Please, call me Bolt

Ok, we're lynching MZero then. Got it

##Unvote

##Vote: MZero
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Please, call me Bolt

Nah, Lopen's got this. Our Triple Shot DEER Doc Vigger is certain to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory! Err... Wait...
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Okay Lopen is scum.

So Lopen today Lea tomorrow or other way around? I'm more confident Lea is scum tbh
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Lopen posted...

Two players have claimed doctor so far. Of course there's a doctor. Probably two or more. That's how you balance 17 with an SK.

Literally cannot be 2 doctors. Holy fuck do u ever make sense. That's a broken setup. I swear playing with people who don't know how to play mafia is infuriating.

If doc a saves doc b and doc b saves doc a all game town has 2 people who can't die all game.

"That's how you balance SK".

I swear I can't....

Basically my exact reaction. Is Lopen newer at this than I thought? I thought it was implied he'd been playing here for awhile last game but I might have confused him with someone else.
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Probably two or more.

Thank Christ. Now I never need to take anything Lopen says seriously again. I knew he was kinda oof but I didn't think it was this bad.
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Btw Corrik claiming he is cleared if protection does not claim is a not so subtle way to try and fish for protection claims.

We literally used that argument last game to mislynch him, word for fucking word. Jesus.
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Look. He moved off me and I didn't even claim. This is a guy who is just faking caring about a mass claim.

Did you forget you claimed vanilla?
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Please, call me Bolt

I literally think only you and scum think Corrik is scum right now, you're just too full of yourself to see that people disagree. I've already said that this little spat you have with Corrik has all the markings of a town/town fight. At this point you have as many votes as he does and I'm definitely hoping if we mislynch one of the two of you that you go. You're being obstructionist while Corrik is trying to be a team player.
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Please, call me Bolt

My favorite part of this is how Lopen has completely abandoned any semblance of trying to scum hunt in order to pick on a guy who replaced in as a favor to the GM. Very classy
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Well spoken by the guy who has not read the game.

*rolls eyes*

Good job misunderstanding what I said. Going back and sifting thru the additional 1200 posts would be reading players, not the game. THIS is the game right now:

1. Blade (Meow1000) / Scare (ScareChan) doctor
2. Corrik (Corrik7) BP town
3. FD (Forceful_Dragon) town vanilla
4. HB (Hbthebattle) town vanilla
5. IGCD (IfGodCouldDie) unclaimed
6. Lea (Leanansidhe) vanilla (but didn't claim TOWN vanilla, note in post 149 this thread)
7. Lopen (Lopen) a bullshit claim no one believes and also vanilla
8. MZero (MZero11) unclaimed
9. SBell (Obellisk) / Firebolt (fire_bolt) town vanilla

Deadlist:
KN2: Red - Asato Kido, TOWN Shadow Psychic (roleblocker)
LD1: Ulti - Yusuke Urameshi, TOWN Tracker
KN3: Brohan - Botan, TOWN Watcher
KN1: Han - Jorge the Ogre, TOWN Vanilla
LD4: Ben - Toya, TOWN Vanilla
KN4: Gravy - Shishiwakamaru, TOWN Vanilla

LD3: Chris - Ruka, MAFIA Roleblocker
LD2: Sultan - Shinobu Sensui, Untargetable Serial Killer

Like I said, you folks busy yourself with WIFOM'ing into the abyss. I've got better uses for my time.
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Please, call me Bolt

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I meant the fact that your reads are incomplete because you haven't read the whole game.

*shrug*

It is what it is, and that's why I'm judging the situation based on what I'm seeing directly. If something seems scummy now why should what happened days ago stop it from seeming scummy? If something seems towny now, why should something that happened days ago stop it from seeming towny? This board puts far, far too much faith in ability to take what someone says and convict them with it. Its why the mislynch rate here is out of control. Everyone's too busy reading players and not actually reading the GAME. You guys keep doing that, I'm going to work on figuring out the hard data as best I can.
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Please, call me Bolt

IfGodCouldDie posted...

But you have no response to anything else?

There's nothing meaningful to be gained from interacting with Lopen right now. When a fool is convinced they are right nothing will change their minds. He's convinced he's solved the game and nothing will change that except, y'know, when his reads start flipping incorrectly.
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

I'll take lectures on b8 towns all day but not when bolt of all people is the messenger.

Cool story but, uh, 100% of my reads were right last game. At least the ones I backed with any conviction. If Corrik hadn't literally claimed my exact role he wouldn't have been mislynched
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Please, call me Bolt

IfGodCouldDie posted...

This is a really bad take. I feel confident that that town is at an advantage right now. Why would we want to throw that advantage out the window by giving scum more information.

I'd love to hear how town is at an advantage when most of our power roles are dead, we have no leads, and the only person dead on the scum team was someone who is useless to them once they kill our power roles.

I have trouble believing IGCD is this bad at reading setup meta. This reads like scum trying to hinder town cooperation more than anything
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Yeah good call that fakeclaim gambit I made as DEER triple vig doctor was almost as bad as the fakeclaim you made when you claimed to be TOWN Good Player.

*rolls eyes*

If you want to act like a child I can certainly treat you like one. Continue your little tantrum though
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Keep in mind the guy you're backing up made one of those stupid fakeclaim gambits

Keep in mind I get to lump you in with him, mister DEER triple vig doctor. And Corrik is playing leagues better than you right now. You've crawled so far up your own ass you should be able to taste your small intestine by now
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Also if we can stop the claims with me that would be cool. Like if FD and Fire_Bolt want to repent and say "you know what, I am a bad player. we can hold them off until tomorrow Lopen is right" I'm perfectly okay with letting the claims end here, myself.

Holy shit, case in fucking point. So glad I left this place
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

There are solid cases on a lot of people

No, there's really not. There's not a single solid case on anyone. You cannot factually say "Ok, this person is scum. We kill them we kill scum today". At best there's some gut reads on a couple of people and a couple of scum slips that may not mean anything. That's the issue with all the scanners being dead.

At this point you're literally just trying to throw darts at a board and hit scum. Meanwhile I'm trying to gather factual evidence so we can piece together SOMETHING. Right now I suspect town has maybe a 25% chance to win this, and that goes down to pretty fucking much 0% if we mislynch today. That's not to say I think the game is Mylo, but I do think we're rapidly approaching the region of town being unsalvagable.

Honestly, this is the main reason I quit playing here. The meta is so stagnant that people would rather push their pet theories and chase shadows as be honest and play the game smartly. Everyone wants to make the big dick "I'm better than you" plays, no one wants to work together. In back to back games we've seen town players make pointless fake claim gambits that did fuck all to help town and merely worked to muddy the waters, leading to stupid mislynches that might not have happened if they'd played as a team.
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Please, call me Bolt

Lopen posted...

Anyone who isn't scum and backing Corrik up on this is bad.

Town scanners are dead. Anyone who thinks town wins without sharing information should probably just quit playing entirely
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Please, call me Bolt

If I wanted to insult you I would find a more direct way of doing it. Ask Blade about that sometime, if he even still remembers. I listed you directly as what came from your own mouth. You can hardly be mad at me for that, but feel free to do so anyway if it makes you feel better. Part of being a confirmed sociopath is giving literally zero fucks what anyone thinks about you, comes in handy
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Please, call me Bolt

Leanansidhe posted...

Are you fucking serious here Bolt

Scum slips are scum slips. I'm doing what I always do, collecting information. You'll note I'm not trying to lynch you right now, ay?
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Please, call me Bolt

1. Blade (Meow1000) / Scare (ScareChan) unclaimed
2. Corrik (Corrik7) BP town
3. FD (Forceful_Dragon) town vanilla
4. HB (Hbthebattle) town vanilla
5. IGCD (IfGodCouldDie) unclaimed
6. Lea (Leanansidhe) vanilla (but didn't claim TOWN vanilla, note in post 149 this thread)
7. Lopen (Lopen) a bullshit claim no one believes
8. MZero (MZero11) unclaimed
9. SBell (Obellisk) / Firebolt (fire_bolt) town vanilla

Deadlist:
KN2: Red - Asato Kido, TOWN Shadow Psychic (roleblocker)
LD1: Ulti - Yusuke Urameshi, TOWN Tracker
KN3: Brohan - Botan, TOWN Watcher
KN1: Han - Jorge the Ogre, TOWN Vanilla
LD4: Ben - Toya, TOWN Vanilla
KN4: Gravy - Shishiwakamaru, TOWN Vanilla

LD3: Chris - Ruka, MAFIA Roleblocker
LD2: Sultan - Shinobu Sensui, Untargetable Serial Killer
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Please, call me Bolt

Hbthebattle posted...

Yeah, I do, but I'd rather not put him to -1 with how hammer happy the game has been.

Corrik7 posted...

Lea strikes me as wanting to hammer. Keep him -2.

Both of these. Lea is scum looking to close out the day. We CANNOT put someone at -1 unless she is already on their wagon. That said, I'll fucking hammer Lopen myself if he doesn't claim (if I wasn't already on his wagon, naturally)
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Please, call me Bolt

Leanansidhe posted...

Do you really need a claim to have an opinion on Lopen? He's posted and done more than any other player.

Yes. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this to anyone here but I will anyway.

In a game of Mafia, town overwhelming has the power advantage. Town has both numbers and typically more actual power roles. It takes DAYS of scum getting night kills to even that advantage out, even if they're also getting mislynches some during the day. Assuming a 12-4-1 split for this game, town outnumbered the scum team 3:1.

The reason town doesn't just auto-win games is because scum has the INFORMATION advantage. Every scum member knows EXACTLY who is on their team, exactly what their powers are, and exactly who they need to eliminate to win. Even for one-off scum "teams" like a solo SK this is true (since he knows his own stuff and needs to eliminate everyone). Town gets several roles usually to negate this information advantage.

However, it looks like our information gatherers are (at least mostly) dead. Which means town needs another method of eliminating that information advantage. The only way to do that at this point is to mass claim, sift thru the claims, and start lynching whoever doesn't fit or won't play with town. Let me make it clear. I WILL support the lynch of anyone who refuses to play with town from here on out. If you're a stubborn townie then you are throwing the game by not helping the rest of us sort it out (similar to how I was ready to lynch red last game). We can get your information off your flip if you will not provide it, full stop.
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Please, call me Bolt

And by "one of them is lying" I mean Lea. Lea might be SCUM vanilla though. So half a lie?
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Scare and Lea claimed vanilla I believe.

I think one of them is probably lying then. I have trouble believing Town would have so little power against 5 scum
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Please, call me Bolt

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Oh are we actually making people claim today? That sounds better than ending day.

I'm home from work and off the next three days. I have a social thing I need to do at some point tonight but I can put in a little work.
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Please, call me Bolt

Leanansidhe posted...

Why are you assuming his claim is legit?

We have confirmation that Corrik is BP if I read correctly and I am town reading the shit out of him. I didn't stand by that last game and we mislynched him when I should have stuck up for him. I think the Lopen/Corrik feud is probably a stupid town/town fight because Lopen is convinced he's the smartest player in the room and Corrik isn't having any of it.

I'm borderline sure you're scum riding the Lopen tunnel wave to mislynch the strongest remaining town player. Compared to last game you a pretty much doing nothing except pushing other people's case enough to seem like you're putting in effort. This could be a result of being the last vanilla instead of a cop but even before you had scans last game you were more assertive.
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Please, call me Bolt

If someone has claimed that I have listed as unclaimed, please correct me. I am well aware I may have missed something
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Please, call me Bolt

Caught up. I agree with Corrik on mass claiming. Its the easiest way to sort shit out at this point, considering most of town has already claimed. Assuming Corrik's BP town is legit, there can only be a couple of unclaimed townies today and we're rapidly running out of vanillas:

1. Blade (Meow1000) / Scare (ScareChan) unclaimed
2. Corrik (Corrik7) BP town
3. FD (Forceful_Dragon) town vanilla
4. HB (Hbthebattle) unclaimed
5. IGCD (IfGodCouldDie) unclaimed
6. Lea (Leanansidhe) unclaimed
7. Lopen (Lopen) a bullshit claim no one believes
8. MZero (MZero11) unclaimed
9. SBell (Obellisk) / Firebolt (fire_bolt) town vanilla

Deadlist:
KN2: Red - Asato Kido, TOWN Shadow Psychic (roleblocker)
LD1: Ulti - Yusuke Urameshi, TOWN Tracker
KN3: Brohan - Botan, TOWN Watcher
KN1: Han - Jorge the Ogre, TOWN Vanilla
LD4: Ben - Toya, TOWN Vanilla
KN4: Gravy - Shishiwakamaru, TOWN Vanilla

LD3: Chris - Ruka, MAFIA Roleblocker
LD2: Sultan - Shinobu Sensui, Untargetable Serial Killer

So that gives us a town list of 1.5 protect, 2.5 scan, 5 vanilla for a total of 9 atm.

Scum has at least 3 left, for a total of 5 overall scum (including the SK). These number seem right. There is probably 1 more vanilla unclaimed town, 1 major power, and 1 minor power. I wouldn't be surprised to see a town reviver in this setup for the final major power, and probably a minor scanner of some sort for the minor power. Or maybe single shot vig/double voter.

I'm ready to start pressuring claims out of the remaining folks starting with Lopen.

##Unvote

##Vote: Lopen
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Unfortunately, Fire_bolt having broken logic that town can't have a full time BP means he is likely the last protection role.

Which sucks.

Nah, I'm just plain ol' vanilla. That said, explain to me how an SK wins with a full time BP Town in the game? An SK has no way to kill that role since he can never control the lynch. Games I've played with an SK and a scum BP usually have the condition that if final 2 comes down to SK and scum BP the SK wins. I guess it could be similar for SK/town BP? Just seems extremely poorly balanced
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Please, call me Bolt

Aight, I've massively overstayed my time on GFaqs tonight. See you folks tomorrow. Err, later today
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik if we are mass claiming today, are you claiming BP town?
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Please, call me Bolt

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Lopen posted...

So FD to be clear you're thinking Lea and Corrik are both scum here?

Sorry, I was getting ready for bed. But in short, yes.

I wanted to give FD a chance to answer without anything I said influencing it, but yeah that was how I was leaning as well. Given what we've been seeing, Lea/Corrik scum buddies seems likely. I'll grant that Lea looks worse, I think, and is probably the best lynch for today
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Please, call me Bolt

Forceful_Dragon posted...

but I'm having difficulty believing that Chris was sooo charismatic that he bamboozled two members of town to fall on his sword.

Last game Town Chris got half the game to sheep him on raw Charisma. Seriously, he died N1 and people were still following his game plan on D4. We won but still. Lea was the driving force behind the sheep Chris movement, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just more of that
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Except Chris tried fakeclaiming BP and I counterclaimed him when he was trying to push a Lynch on sultan.

My guess is either you're lying about being BP or you were single shot BP. Unlimited town BP is literally not possible in an SK game (unless every SK kill is Strongman or something similar)
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Please, call me Bolt

FYI: Scum bulletproof is how you balance an SK game without just loading the scum team with enough players that they don't die instantly. One scum can't be night killed, one other scum scans town, a role blocker, and suddenly scum has enough defensive power to keep in the game without too much difficulty. In an SK game Town Bulletproof is LITERALLY an SK's Kryptonite. If Corrik is Bulletproof then he's scum, full stop
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

How many games have you balanced with a SK?

5 man scum team + 1 Sk in a 17 person game? No fucking way. This sounds like scum trying to spook town into doing something dumb
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Fire_bolt, can you help provide pressure on Lopen?

Sure... Except:

Leanansidhe posted...

Lopen dismantled scum Chris like a Christmas tree in January, I don't have the heart to force him to claim tbh

Let's just lynch Scare

Lea, why is your vote on Lopen if this is how you feel?
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Lopen posted...

Also I've already claimed DEER Deer King 3 shot vig doctor. Are you even reading the game.

3 shot vig but hasn't shot anyone. Honestly, I want to lynch you just for this horrible claim.
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Its arguably one of the most underrated games of all time tbh
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Please, call me Bolt

Corrik7 posted...

Be careful trusting that as Forceful made it very clear, he is very very knowledgeable on the flavor.

I figured as much when he claimed my role PM for me, more or less. Totally possible he's faking a claim based off raw flavor knowledge, something I've done before lol
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

And that threat effectively does put me at -1 so sure, might as well.

.

I am Juri, TOWN Vanilla. I'm lucky to have survived as one of the referees for the dark tournament. I probably should have just kept my day job, but now I can try to put this ordeal behind me.

.

I hinted at this in my first post of day 1 by using the word "announce". Its why i trusted sbell even before sultan claimed an extra scan. Not that you would know, fire, but sbell spent much of day 1 doing what seemed like sports announcing of the events that were happening. That's because he (you) are clearly the other referee/announce of the tournament, Koto.

Seems legit. My role PM supports this
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Please, call me Bolt

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Lopen and Scare haven't posted yet and I'm not at -1. Claiming now seems dumb. I'd rather continue to marvel at Corrik's lack of active synapses.

If you think this is a good reason to not claim then I'll happily disabuse you of the notion by voting you. Play ball or die, but playing chicken here 100% gets you lynched.
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Please, call me Bolt

Leanansidhe posted...

I made a fake claim gambit as town vanilla

*facepalm*
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Please, call me Bolt

Ok, so coherent thoughts. Just woke up so bear with me.

Re: Ben- Is it common on b8 for town vanillas to make double fake claim gambits? Cuz we just had one in back to back games, and one of them was to try and save scum.


Re: Reads I started typing up reasons Lopen was scum, but as I was gathering quotes from his play yesterday I realized something. Scum had a CLEAR mislynch on the table. Ben fucked up real bad, to the point where they didn't really even need to do anything. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben's lynch wagon was mostly town. Anyway, what did Lopen do all day yesterday? Build a case against Lea and implicate FD. Pretty much exclusively, although not very well. Argument could be made it was scum building groundwork for today, but why would scum push a potential Lea mislynch over a Ben one? If scum wanted Lea dead, mislynch Ben and kill her. Lopen looking pretty clear atm.

Corrik still looks townie to me. He was on Ben and then tried to push a different lynch. Again, why bother? If scum wanted FD dead why not mislynch Ben and kill FD? Yesterday just looked like Corrik being Corrik tbh.

That said, only Lea and FD were really talking besides those two yesterday. I'd like to hear more from HB, Scare, and IGCD today. I'd also like to hear the case against Lea since people seem to think its pretty clear cut. FD strikes me as pretty townie right now.
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present
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Please, call me Bolt