Lurker > Suprak the Stud

CelesMyUserName posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/separating-families-at-the-border-is-really-unpopular/

50% approval with Republicans. Crazy.

hey the average was at 49% that's surprisingly low for republicans tbqh

a technical less than majority!

538 actually points out something like that is basically unheard of with how partisan things have become.

But still, disappointing to say the least.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/separating-families-at-the-border-is-really-unpopular/

50% approval with Republicans. Crazy.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

FFDragon posted...

no regrets about not claiming that game either

since it led to me pepe silviaing all over that dead mason board

They awakened your true form.

Also this post hurts as it just reminds me we never got IASIP Mafia.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Dead mason board was incredibly fun. FUN. Probably my favorite role. Either that or Pun's vote slinger from Eff 2016.

I also thought you did really well. The entire board did. Puns just did better.

(Also I think Puns was roleblocker and the scum team almost killed him day 1 for reasons I can't remember - it lead Scare I think to accidentally clear him and suggest going after red instead.)

I was probably clinically insanse for the first 8 hours or so of that final night phase and still got it wrong

The amount of work you put in that last night was a thing of beauty.

I mean, you were wrong, but it wasn't like you were just like "lol whatever". You guys did good work digging through all the old topics and made a convincing argument for red. It just turned out to be wrong.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Dead mason board was incredibly fun. FUN. Probably my favorite role. Either that or Pun's vote slinger from Eff 2016.

I also thought you did really well. The entire board did. Puns just did better.

(Also I think Puns was roleblocker and the scum team almost killed him day 1 for reasons I can't remember - it lead Scare I think to accidentally clear him and suggest going after red instead.)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

FFDragon posted...

The United States is no longer the leader of the free world. We're doing our damnedest to fly out of the top ten.

BUT HER EMAILS

Also we got like twenty coal jobs back! Better to invest in a dying industry than in the technology of the future, I've always said.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Who else was on our team that game?

It was A Feast For Crows mafia!

That was another weird game. Chris pulled off a believable vig claim day 2, but there was a vig in the game. For some reason he didn't counter, and let Chris lead a mislynch. The vig shot Chris at night instead, and because Shad and Mi's claims had become entangled somehow, it wound up leading to a three scum pileup.

Puns ultimately won at mylo against Nana, red, and Leo and literally all of the best town players in the game on their dead mason board.

It might be my favorite game I've hosted! Either GoT1 or GoT4.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

turbopuns2 posted...

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Puns is an excellent scum player, but I'll still never forgive him for breaking the entire scum team in the first post of the game.

Looking back, I still can't believe I actually posted that.

Best part was coming home, seeing that, going to check the scum board, and finding Chris has posted an actual audio file yelling at you. I listened to that like six times in a row I was laughing so hard.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Puns is also a very good scum player as evidenced by his AFfC performance alone.

I've had some really entertaining game to watch, looking back.

But I think I remember a Puns performance where he got scanned, admitted he was scum, and then somehow, despite that, convinced town he was not scum and came back to live like three more days.

I may be misremembering that wrong though or it could've been someone else.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

I think Scare might actually be the slippery-iest out of all the scum players on the board tbqh. There are probably others I'd say are "better" at scum, but I don't think there is anyone I've seen wiggle out of as many impossible situations as Scare. He's just really hard to get people to lynch.

Hi.

Haha I think you're better overall!

But I also think people are more eager to lynch you more often nowadays just to prove how big and cool they are at lynching scum Chris. Scare, who is also a very good scum player, doesn't have the same reputation and as such can slip under the radar in ways you can't.

IMO at least.

No disrespect to either of you, you've both very good.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

I mean in fuck 2016 wasn't there also something like Corrik who had flipped town had a guilty between either MI or Scare or something? And town lynched someone who wasn't scanned?

That's when I claimed survivor and mi bought my trust for the day

And Terra's "oops" moment got you a free pass the next day, which is all you guys needed!

Man was that a train wreck at the end for town. No wonder Puns PMs devolved into madness, I forgot about some of this stuff.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

turbopuns2 posted...

I mean in fuck 2016 wasn't there also something like Corrik who had flipped town had a guilty between either MI or Scare or something? And town lynched someone who wasn't scanned?

Yes, yes this is 100% accurate.

He claimed a scan. They said lies! They killed him and he flipped scanner.

They killed...someone else. Town's third strongest power role, actually. Who had played the game so egregiously bad, it was almost impossible. He had the ability to get any player to repeat their action, and his night 5 action was used on the guy who got lynched day 5. He claimed that, people pointed out his target was dead, he went "lol" and got lynched instead of Scare.

I'm not entirely sure I blame town, looking back now >_>
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I think Scare might actually be the slippery-iest out of all the scum players on the board tbqh. There are probably others I'd say are "better" at scum, but I don't think there is anyone I've seen wiggle out of as many impossible situations as Scare. He's just really hard to get people to lynch.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

But they only believe Corrik out of BLADEfear, though.

Like Corrik absolutely led the lynch. But multiple other people were like "if Blade is so good why isn't he dead yet" (and a couple just sheeped Corrik).
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

VeryInsane posted...

That game blew up because I died

I was literally the only person keeping order (and I had most of the scumteam nailed)

Also Puns died!

And then they killed Blade (who was like halfway through figuring out the setup) because of BLADEfear.

Scum was very good with their night kills that game, and mostly let power live so it could just eat itself.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

A survivor claim, even if a true survivor, is basically a claim on a timer.

You can survive past one day sure, but any town that is not drunk is going to go "we need to Lynch the survivor game prior to mylo". One, because a lot of people follow the rules I outlined here and a survivor moves mylo up a day. And two, because at best survivor is not town. They do not play for town, they do not count for town (in a lot of games), they're their own faction. This is an argument I've seen on literally every single game I've ever played where someone claimed survivor.

So its fine as a desperation claim to try and get a couple more days. It is not so fine as an endgame strategy. Scare wasn't planning to get to final 3 with his claim in Eff 2016 either. It was a just "I bet I can get one more day out of this" kind of claim.

Like Han gave two hypotheticals. I argue that it isn't worth breaking the rules I've come up with (and a lot of people also follow) to enable fake claims. But, on top of that, I don't think any of those hypotheticals have ever happened. I have certainly never seen town vanilla claim as a survivor >_> And I am almost positive I have never seen scum claim survivor in an attempt to win in the final three because I think our community is better than that (in terms of letting a survivor claim live in the final three). Could be wrong, which is why I was curious if there was ever a specific game where that happened!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I'm legitimately curious if, in the entire history of B8/CE games, has scum ever gone "I'm going to take this survivor fake claim into mylo and win in the final three". Like as their strategy.

Because I want to party with that person.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

It was more an argument that a host isn't responsible for bad scum fake claims, and I don't think accommodating fake claims is a good reason to change the rules when I've already explained my reasoning for doing so.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Well, so? lol.

Oh that wasn't in regards to the current discussion. I just thought it was funny!

That's not why I have to rule in place, but ok!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I also went back and checked my inbox, and your response to Scare claiming he was third party was "if scare isn't quicklynched today I am going to lose my mind".

I have a series of about 20 PMs of you from that game slowly descending into madness as town threw up all over itself to blow what was a crazily good early game. Like some of these don't even have words in them.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Also they didn't know it was mylo at least. In Han's situation, scum wins in final three because the other two town both believe the guy with a survivor claim is working in their best interest.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I mean.

Yes.

That was probably the worst town play in any of my games. Scare is a voodoo master.

(And shhh don't bring that up or MI will never come back.)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Vanilla
Vanilla
Vanilla who claimed survivor
Scum
Scum

Vanilla
Vanilla
Vanilla
Scum who claimed survivor
Scum

Having an auto-end rule proves the fakeclaimers in both of these scenarios to be lying. In the second scenario, Scum claiming survivor could bus to make a play for endgame. That option ceases to exist in a world where auto-end exists.

Rules that restrict options and strategies like this should not exist, imo.

To me, the rules that I have established are more important than accommodating fake claims. If you have a different set of rules, fine. I clearly explain what mine are and what my win conditions are.

"Oh it isn't fair I fake claimed hated townie as scum and then when we got to mylo it was obvious I wasn't hated townie and I lost."

Like claim something that doesn't get you killed at mylo would be my suggestion, I guess.

(What kind of terrible people are you playing with that don't automatically lynch the survivor claim at mylo, anyway?)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I went home yesterday and all my shoes were gone.

In their place? A single maple leaf.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I do appreciate how we were just like "eh agree to disagree" and didn't yell at each other tbqh.

Thumbs up all around guys.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1009115794658287623

Dang Canadian single pair sneaker smugglers. It's an epidemic!

This is why they're a threat to our national security. Taking all our shoes.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Or the game gets called a billion times because that's how it works and scum/survivor win a billion times.

Yes, you could force everyone to talk it out. Or you could say "Scum outnumbers town. Survivor is only in it for himself so he doesn't count. Scum wins."

Presumably the game will have been balanced with 1 less scum in that scenario to account for a survivor at endgame so I don't see that being an unfair result.

Yep that's how I'd do it!

Forceful_Dragon posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

Alrighty then we have reached an impasse.

I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains.

Anybody want a peanut?
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

This doesn't matter though, because we are clearly talking about different rules we have established for ourselves.

I think it is pointless to continue this discussion at this point, because we're going to be rehashing the same argument over and over and it probably isn't worth our time to continue doing so. So feel free to include whatever you want in your games!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

turbopuns2 posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Like if it is a normal 2-2, do your force scum to play out every day until it is 0-2?

"Well it technically isn't over because scum could throw the game and shoot themselves!"

No, because that would be playing against their win condition. Same as survivor in your scenarios. Which is why they automatically win when we reach parity.

It is not the same.

Mafia are told by the host 100% confirmed who their teammates are.

Survivor is not told 100% who mafia are. And vice versa.

Again, consider this - if you let that 2-2-1 day play itself out a billion times, you will see cases where mafia doesn't win, because they are timid about revealing since they don't know there is a survivor. Therefore victory is not inevitable.

Usurpers exist. Special conditions for victory exist. Maybe your teammate has one. Maybe you should have to decide every game at parity if you want to shoot your teammate or shoot out into the crowd of mystery.

And, again, that doesn't matter. Parity is reached. Scum has outnumbered TOWN. Survivor is not TOWN. It is endgame. Survivor wins.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Forceful_Dragon posted...

For the sake of mafia equaling town is the same at outnumbering town.

Yes, thank you.

I assumed that was understood by everyone >_>
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ShatteredElysium posted...

And a normal 2-2 isn't the same as 2-2-1.

The distinction is that at 2-2 it is impossible for scum to be lynched if they are playing to win

At 2-2-1 it is still entirely possible for scum to be lynched.

Except the survivor already achieved its win condition.

It's the same thing for the same reasons FFD and I pointed out. Survivors win is automatic and they don't have a choice in the matter.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

turbopuns2 posted...

What? Where did you get that i was talking about a 2v2 day?

You said...

Suprak the Stud posted...

"You win when your faction outnumbers the TOWN or when your victory becomes inevitable."

And if the numbers are 2-2-1...MAFIA does not outnumber TOWN.

try reading again with that understanding lol

Survivor isn't TOWN.

Mafia outnumbers TOWN. 2 to 2 is endgame. Survivor does not count for parity on either side.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Rude.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Like if it is a normal 2-2, do your force scum to play out every day until it is 0-2?

"Well it technically isn't over because scum could throw the game and shoot themselves!"

No, because that would be playing against their win condition. Same as survivor in your scenarios. Which is why they automatically win when we reach parity.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leafeon13N posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

The precise wording for my last game was "You win when your faction outnumbers the TOWN or when your victory becomes inevitable."

Survivor's win condition is to make it to end game, regardless of the victor. You are arguing they aren't a vote for scum, which, fine. But they aren't a vote for town. They aren't a vote for either. Their win condition, which they have no choice to fulfill is to make it to end game. Their vote doesn't count for parity purpose, because they aren't town.

2-2-1

Two scum, two town, one not town. Scum outnumbers TOWN. This is endgame. Survivor makes it to endgame and fulfills their win condition automatically.

If I'm town in that scenario i am literally claiming scum and so should every other town.

Not to mention if scum faction claims, survivor can decide to turn on them.

In my games it wouldn't matter, nor would you have a chance to do this, because I'm careful how I word my victory conditions. Scum need to outnumber town (or be in a position where town can't outvote them - hence the inevitability clause). In a 2-2 scenario, that's already achieved. You wouldn't have a chance to do anything. Survivor wouldn't turn on anyone, because they already won. Remove from game. Win condition fulfilled.

Although this would never happen in my game as I'd never put a survivor in regardless.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leo3Leo3Leo posted...

While we're banning survivor, let's ban miller too

They're sending their millers, they're sending their survivors, and some, I assume, are good mafia roles.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

turbopuns2 posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

"You win when your faction outnumbers the TOWN or when your victory becomes inevitable."

Alright, so we clearly agree that if it's 2-2-1, the first part is not fulfilled, because 2=2, not 2 > 2.

So the second part..."inevitable". I argue that scum victory is not "inevitable" if you play out that 2-2-1 a billion times. Scum will not win a billion out of a billion, because of scum and survivor each respectively being unsure of the exact setup. Ergo, victory is not inevitable, just highly likely.

Again 2=2 is an endgame scenario >_>

But that alone isn't why the game is over. The survivor fulfill their win condition automatically. They don't have a say in this. They don't get to choose winners. Survive to endgame. It's endgame. Then end. They aren't town, they can't side with town here. They aren't scum, they can't side with scum here. Their win condition is just to survive to endgame and a 2=2 scenario is endgame. They win. No votes needed.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I mean if it is 2-2 the game ends anyway >_> A 2=2 is endgame. Like...we agree on that, right?
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

The precise wording for my last game was "You win when your faction outnumbers the TOWN or when your victory becomes inevitable."

Survivor's win condition is to make it to end game, regardless of the victor. You are arguing they aren't a vote for scum, which, fine. But they aren't a vote for town. They aren't a vote for either. Their win condition, which they have no choice to fulfill is to make it to end game. Their vote doesn't count for parity purpose, because they aren't town.

2-2-1

Two scum, two town, one not town. Scum outnumbers TOWN. This is endgame. Survivor makes it to endgame and fulfills their win condition automatically.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I dont think it should be banned, but its a bad role that hosts lazily throw in sometimes because they cant figure out how to balance. Its not fun and at best pointless.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

neonreaper posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Dels posted...

I was closer to siding with Corrik here, but turbo makes good points. If there was a guaranteed way for the survivor to 100% know the scumteam and know the game can end - then the game will advance to a scum win by default. But it sounds like technically there are still things under player control, or that the players don't know, that could (in rare cases) affect it?

^

Game is automatically over once non town controls the lynch. This is a game the host should call because it is already over. Survivor auto sides with scum on that scenario.

Also you could just not put survivor in your games because it is a terrible role to include anyway.

Survivor doesn't prevent town from winning and mafia doesn't control the lynch unless host confirms the setup (by ending the game), which shouldn't occur. Mafia has to convince survivor (and know it is a survivor) to vote with them. That shouldn't be done via host intervention.

if this discussion results in banning survivor I am happy =)

Its 2-2-1. Survivor fulfills its win condition and is removed from the game. Then its game over. They dont have a choice here.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Dels posted...

I was closer to siding with Corrik here, but turbo makes good points. If there was a guaranteed way for the survivor to 100% know the scumteam and know the game can end - then the game will advance to a scum win by default. But it sounds like technically there are still things under player control, or that the players don't know, that could (in rare cases) affect it?

^

Game is automatically over once non town controls the lynch. This is a game the host should call because it is already over. Survivor auto sides with scum on that scenario.

Also you could just not put survivor in your games because it is a terrible role to include anyway.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Shuppet
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Carracosta
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Sliggoo
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Pumpkaboo
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Fomantis
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Trevenant
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Gourgeist
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

I have my final ASoIaF mafia game ready, but Ill wait for everyone else who wants to go to go.

*heart eyes*

I hope you host other games after because you are the best host

Question to you guys

Open setup vs closed setup

I see MU has a lot of open setups. I feel that can cramp my style as some of my biggest wins have come from well time fake claims. How much does it effect you? Do you feel its easier or harder to digest?

Aww <3 thanks! And I have other games I plan to run here! Ill at least continue my Fuck 20xx series.

Leo3Leo3Leo posted...

Yes Suprak, make next game

Or Gravy

But either way, I'm currently free enough to be maximum active

Gravy is next! And you I think. Ill try mine sometime after that.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."