Lurker > Kamekguy

GANON1025 posted...

Do we really think Mega Man needs some convoluted scheme to beat Samus? Maybe I'm missing something, but I think he can hold his own against her even when she has both her arms.

If Samus was a Mega Man boss I'd take her to have, like, at least five health bars.

Fully tanked up Samus just keeps GOING.

So here's my current leanings:

-Yeah Team Mega Man grouping together really gets them blown up at chokepoints, doesn't it? Like I take Mega Man to survive a Power Bomb... I don't take anyone else, and it's a moot point if Rika goes.

-I do, however, think Rika is manipulative enough to convince everyone to listen to her. In a team of the indomitable dragon of Dojima, the man who's survived at least three undead outbreaks, and the super fighting robot, I am confident that the 10-year old girl can handle fear the best. So if she goes "don't use the cable car, it looks unsafe what if she has a second laser cannon" or "you've heard what she can do with bombs, if we're together our bones will melt into radioactive jelly together nipah~", she will. And I think the two grown men, robot, and robot dog will be scared enough to buy it.

-If Mega Man is able to beat Samus, the match is over. Frank West using a Mega Buster effortlessly melts humans just going pew pew pew, I think the actual article fired by someone who knows how to use it will get the job done.

-There are a LOT of gross strategies Mega Man can perform. Getting in a cheap shot by teleporting behind Samus, then freezing time so he can run around the corner and teleport away, only to do so again with Centaur Flash into Double Gear for a quicker getaway. The issue is, I don't know if he runs out of weapon energy before Samus manages to predict and react, or she just goes invisible at one point and Rock is like "huh where is she", to which Samus responds "right behind you" and drops bombs on him into next week. I do think Rock lives a bomb, but I think he's in a bad way and scared out of his mind.

-BJ pretty much has free reign to pick off Kiryu and Leon with everyone obsessed with Samus.

So my main concern is "with enough loops (before BJ eventually mercs Rika too often for it to matter), can Mega Man figure out a combination to kill Samus?" And... I honestly don't know. Rika would need the time to explain to him what combination of weapons don't work in each loop and give him a game plan, which eats up a ton of time, which increases the odds of OH NO SAMUS IS HERE or OH NO WE'RE BEING ATTACKED BY NAZI LIGHTNING. I really need to think of what combo of powers would actually secure Mega Man the kill, and how fast he'd go to those options; he has a LOT of options, after all!

Hbthebattle posted...

then why have a difference in wording between lgpe and sv movesets

SV was gotten on upgrade as a bonus, must've been inconsistent.

... my bad~!

Vs Giant DONKEY KONG

After stewing on it enough, I'd say Raiden wins all match-ups where DK isn't his first target, and quite a few where he does. However, I think that DK is his primary target more often than not, because if he's not, the stun shockwave from DK's clap kinda screws with him and is a great aggro machine. Bowser and Mewtwo basically ensure that a war of attrition is lost as long as Gordon's dealt with, and... look I'll be frank, Gordon doesn't impress me. He's fine, he contributes a good deal, but I don't think he outpaces anyone and I don't think he deals with Bowser fast enough after the Koopa King's initial contribution of poison gas, fear, or both (an idea I think Mewtwo could implant into his friend's brain pretty easily) to change the match's tide. And while I would say Raiden would get his pick of the litter here, I feel like the terrain does help control the pace enough that a defensive game has the edge and guides Raiden into the loving embrace of the big ape.

Mewtwo's unupgraded and I give it to the other guys, though. No buff passing or healing is bad news.

I think there is a solid strategy here if Mewtwo plays support. By buffing himself, then transferring those buffs to DK and playing healer, three stacks of barrier here would make DK like... stupid. Especially three stacks he's getting without actively needing to focus on them - I take DK here to be fast enough to at least stall Raiden, though my guy's obviously taking heavy damage. Blade Mode slows down time by 50%, so DK... would still be moving at twice his normal speed even given Raiden's fastest reactions.

My issue is that Raiden is excellent at finesse, and DK is... not. I do think that one punch from DK messes with Raiden real bad, and if Mewtwo gets the set-up here and is also able to patch up DK's damage, that's gg. But this relies on:

-DK being able to keep Raiden's full aggro
-Mewtwo remaining in the background and avoiding set-up
-Gordon not interfering

The middle of those, I see no problem with. Mewtwo's a dodgy fella with teleport, they're fine. The top, I'd need to know how strong Raiden's situational awareness is when already in combat, I mostly know him as a great duelist and scout/tracker more than anything, post-cyborging at least. And the last of those... a lot hinges on that. Gordon's potentially dealing a whole lot of damage, and the only guys who can stop him are... well just Bowser, really, Diddy and Dixie don't have a whole lot of places they can go to dodge and be annoying. I'm trying to figure out what those two do here, as if Gordon gets enough damage out on DK to make Mewtwo moot, it's kinda over - I don't take Mewtwo in the 1v1 against Raiden, and think him going all out offensive to start gets Raiden to charge him early, which ends poorly.

Life Dew (the move in question) is described as thus:

"The user scatters mysterious water around and restores the HP of itself and its ally Pokmon currently in the battle."

So uhhhh... maybe? Like, it's essentially magical healing (looking it up, it's pretty much just fairies and legendary psychics... and Lapras, Milotic, Lucario, and Corsola). Like I would assume it's a pure life force thing considering Lucario can learn it and the whole aura gimmick, but uhhhh... I honestly don't know if I buy that without, like, DK putting his severed arm back in place for Mewtwo to patch, which I don't think Raiden is gonna let them do.

What is giving me pause is DK's clap. In Jungle Beat, he's able to clap really loud, and the sheer shockwave from it is able to blow up meteors that are roughly his size, if not slightly larger. I think that deals with Gordon's offensive output fairly handily rocket-wise.

... the issue being if Raiden cuts off his arm he, uh. Can't put his hands together even if he wants to clap.

Some of them I'll give you, but stuff like Face Lift? Being too big for Mushroom Mix-Up? Mario Bandstand? Not to mention stuff that he wasn't winning by default like Pipe Maze, and his size makes him absolutely tank all the 2v2 minigames with any partner.

Ways I can see Bowser contributing:

-Uses the spell Terrorize, which causes a Fear effect on a group of enemies (cuts attack and defense in half)
-Tells a bunch of Bob-ombs to go in the lava, which I assume causes a big explosion
-Tries to body check Gordon off of the mountain, relying on only the fact that he might live probably

Anyway I think that Dixie can probably get some hidden stars, but Diddy's personal dice (7-7-7-0-0-0) is really solid on this board, as he can accurately know where he's gonna go on given junctions and stall out the volcano erupting. Meanwhile I think Gordon just has mini-game star on lock, like, no one else here has the patience he does for the cerebral challenges, and that probably lets him get Coin Star, too, considering how hostile the board is to the coin economy.

Team Vivi

Yeah I just don't see it. Even in the best-case scenario where Metal Gear trips on a hole and falls directly into the lava AND Cloud is dead, it's gonna take a while to properly go down and Aigis is in a very bad place anywhere around it. This lets Vivi, who passively reflects magic which is probably gonna be Aigis' go-to instead of shooting the incredibly durable robot, kinda just sit there and weakness snipe at Aigis while Salmisanthropeus or whatever passively creates covering fire as it slowly melts to death. And then Crono probably thinks he's gonna survive charging through the lava to beat a dude up and... doesn't. He very much does not.

I also thought the lava was on the floor above originally, and that hurt Metal Gear a lot more.

Elden Ring

The main issue is that the game is built as a dating/social simulator. It's a genre where, inherently, you're NOT gonna be able to do absolutely everything in a single playthrough - that's its entire appeal, learning new things and trying new runs. Persona is an incredibly chunky game due to having a JRPG stapled on top of it... but honestly you cut, like, a solid 50 hours out of the game by speeding through story scenes and NG+-ing your way through the combat. I think doing it in two runs (following a guide for the second) is entirely possible, and I think using the first run for routing out the second one is rewarding in and of itself, but I really wouldn't recommend pushing a first playthrough for 100%. The games are made to compensate after the fact and really wanna be a clunky dating sim on the first go-round.

Vampire Survivors

Kirby & The Forgotten Land

GANON1025 posted...

Liquid, pretending to be Adam: Samus, you are not authorized to use that move.

She's over that by the time of Dread, which happens both after Other M and after y'know. She knows Adam is dead.

Because she saw it.

She takes orders from his robot now. And she sasses it.

So uh.

What stops Samus from just shinesparking over most of the terrain when she reaches the snowfield?

Like Liquid is absolutely scared out of his mind about two of them. There is a terrified child next to him asking if everything is gonna be OK. If Samus streaks through the sky, what's to stop him from utterly blowing his cover the minute he realizes he's in actual danger?

Like, unfortunately there aren't that many wrong turns in Shadow Moses. I totally buy Liquid trying to manipulate Samus along, but she's been mislead by AI posing as her CO before, and that... ended very badly. And I can't help but think that the Wave Beam just microwaves Liquid here. Like, going through REX and frying him REALLY good.

How long that takes, of course, is up for debate. I'm just trying to think of Samus' survival instinct versus how long Liquid can keep things up while being very stressed about a man cosplaying as another man and the scary lady he's trying to manipulate, plus the travel time of Samus actually getting there with full speedboost tech.

What if Raiden, sans leg, simply removes his arm and replaces his missing leg with the detatched arm?

Oh I agree. But I don't think Raiden is impossible to react to for Mega Man, which is my sticking point. Like I don't see Mega winning if Raiden gets in close combat - nah he's sliced and diced. But I can see him pulling out the Flash Stopper in time to not get torn to shreds and let his friends actually do the damage. I see Mega as the enabler, rather than the actual force that wins here; I think if he's solo, he stalls Raiden for a good minute between all the freezes (math-wise he gets 7 charges of Flash Stopper before it goes out, and one continuous one of Centaur Flash), but stalling and maybe a shot or two is about all he's got in him.

But Zeratul? He has a fun energy knife that cuts people real good. And I'm very used to Raiden getting cut up to ridiculous degrees.

Eddv posted...

Parameter wise the megas are all a tier or two below the X ones and Raidens a whole tier or two above those.

I agree for the X bots, but I still think base Mega Man is just... a lot more advanced than MGS, tech-wise?

Like, it's got teleporters and they make robots who can stop time and are designed for exploring other planets for energy sources and stuff. By MM3!

I agree the X robots are better. But I'm just talking Quick Man, Top Man, and Turbo Man as more technically impressive than any given Metal Gear!

Mega Man

Like. No shot in Hell Raiden is faster than Quick Man, who is explicitly designed to be the fastest from the metals he's made of and is easily compared to "man who is an actual race car" (to say nothing about the Megamix manga claiming "four times faster than light speed", which... yeah ok sure). Mega Man can at least keep up with Raiden's movements to get a Flash Stopper off when the guy's coming right at him. From there, I take V or Zeratul to get in a fatal blow on half-health Raiden. The other one there is absolute overkill.

Raiden would have to kill exactly Mega Man first for even a shot in my mind, and if he's ripper, no chance he's not gonna just kill the first guy he sees.

"Flash Stopper ( Furasshu Sutopp) is Bright Man's Special Weapon. This is not to be mistaken as Flash Man's power, Time Stopper. Unlike Time Stopper, the Flash Stopper emits an intense light that activates a safety device in the camera eyes of robots, blinding them for a short period, which makes them unable to move and open for attacks"

... this seems good. Mostly just for combining with stuff like Centaur Flash to run out Raiden's timer.

I have absolute faith Raiden can kill everyone here. I can't recall, what's his threat assessment capabilities like? Because if Mega isn't the first one gone... that's bad. (I say this knowing nothing about V other than "man Edgerunners was a good show" ).

Kirby and the Forgotten Land

Anybody voting for Elden Ring is just anti Kirby and the Forgotten Land or fun for some reason, or hasn't played 30 straight years of Kirby games obsessively enough to see tons of references and the character arcs of cartoon characters pay off in glorious fashion. Like a totally rational person.

I mean, they remade Crescent Island from DKR in Crash Team Racing during its development to prove that they could do it on Playstation, then modeled the entire game after that.

So CTR, Nitro Kart, and Nitro Fueled definitely are the most obvious successors, almost directly so.

Outside of Amogus, probably Cuphead in the more traditional 'iconic' sense? Like he feels like he occupies a similar space Mega Man used to when it comes to at least recognizing him as a video game character.

Vampire Survivors

Donkey Kong

Yeah I'm sorry, even with DK taking pot shots, my respect for the guys is just too high. Like, I absolutely accept DK takes damage here and that inhibits his ability to fight optimally... but I don't think Aigis is able to get away unscathed with Bowser on her, and Bowser would have to accomplish effectively nothing in order to let Aigis heal. And between his shell letting him go up walls, Terrorize having a chance of inflicting the Fear status that Aigis can't heal off, minion attacks to limit Aigis' hiding places, just setting stuff on fire (that DK can put out via clapping, as he's done in Jungle Beat - shut up clapping is very strong), poison gas, teleporting - the terrain is too enclosed for Aigis to dodge a huge amount of these options, and if Bowser and DK get to the top and decide to break the building down, if Aigis isn't flying outside... that's real bad.

That said, I think Mewtwo is absolutely dead and if this is on a larger (though not necessarily more open) terrain, Aigis has a real shot. Or if Labrys is here it's hardly a debate. But I had to think and recall quite a lot here! I just think, in a lot more scenarios than not, DK gets the grab.

Dante posted...

i don't think he can - he can only use the minions for brawl attacks? I don't actually know what a brawl attack is

Those are his attacks involving them from Bowser's Inside Story, where he summons minions. Essentially to ensure he doesn't just sit behind an infinite amount of them.

The Bob-omb one is specifically just... telling them to charge at people while he blows a little whistle, guiding their path.

Alright so general thoughts:

-I think Mewtwo's dead. I am just imagining four spears impaling him before the giant laser strikes him, pinning him to the ground as he's relentlessly blasted, instead of merely 'another, bigger laser'. And that is brutal and I love it.

-If you are asking me if I think Donkey Kong can break a building and climb up it in order to grab a girl... yes. I think he's very good at that.

-I respect Aigis a whole bunch. But these rooms are TINY. I cannot imagine her kiting in and out of any of them, because there's just nowhere to really go unless she smashes through a wall, and DK would hear that.

-I don't think stall strategies work because Bowser can just order some Bob-ombs to walk into rooms. Like, there are enough bodies with the minions that DK can stay in pretty prime fighting condition, and what, Bowser's gonna check rooms for traps himself?

-I don't think Aigis gets debuffs off. Iwatodai's got narrow hallways and if she's not providing covering fire, DK's gonna use the casting time to get in there and grab her. And I do think if he gets the grab off, it's over. I have broken into many, MANY an Aigis in my time and heard her yell MY ARMOR over and over to a lovely combo.

-If the building comes down, Bowser definitely lives. His shell doesn't just survive a Thwomp crushing it in Inside Story, he no-sells it completely and keeps walking. Plus it survives his whole castle falling on it. DK... depends on where he is and when they decide to bring it down.

-Bowser can teleport. That seems like a thing that makes escaping to a higher floor hard.

Really I'm just sitting here thinking how versatile Bowser's toolkit is for this situation. There's a LOT that can be done to open up the opportunity for DK to get off the combo he needs, I'd need a surefire strat from Aigis to isolate and beat Bowser first. I think she can kite DK, but not if Bowser's helping him in a LOT of potential ways.

To posit a bit on DK's durability (as Jungle Beat is really his only chance to show durability beyond "wahhh a beaver was mean 2 me ;; " ), DK gains HP based on 'beats' in Jungle Beat, earned by him doing cool platforming tricks and eating bananas in stages. He then banks them to fight bosses, serving as his health bar. At Platinum Crest level, DK has accrued about 1200 beats. Getting slugged in the face by apes roughly 1.5 times his size does about 100 beats worth of damage. This backflip kick from the Ghastly King (1:13) does about 45 beats of damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT-XQxVv4sI#t=1m13s

Extrapolate from there since I know DK's durability is a bit of an obscure point.

What is Aigis' response to DK throwing Bowser, rolled up in his shell to form a giant shell ball, at her? Need I remind you he has one of the strongest fastballs in Mario Superstar Baseball?

I am only half joking.

Neon White

Kirby and the Forgotten Land

Tunic

MajinZidane posted...

okay how w/ one arm what's he doing

Winning single-handedly, clearly.

I actually think Kiryu is the exact type of person to overthink this and think that his mentor just has really bad cell reception, creating a hilarious misunderstanding where no one else believes that Kiryu would fall for this, and Kiryu goes "oh no, everyone is mad, and it's all because I don't understand team chat"

And then he wins a fight and wins anyway as the substory guitar music plays.

Kiryu and Co.

To be fair, I don't think Bowser casually does ANYTHING against Mario. I do think he plays defensively when he realizes "oh, THIS is what he's up to, VERY fair, Mario", but I think Bowser is absolutely aggro here.

I'd actually wonder about Aegis Shielding being disabled. It's more of a passive that she's focusing on, like a Pokemon Ability. Falls in a weird grey area where I would lean Mewtwo couldn't disable it (as he couldn't disable, say, Shedinja's Wonder Guard or Xatu's Magic Bounce), but I wouldn't be against either interpretation.

Team Bowser

After mulling it over, the idea that this is a long match honestly works against it. My main thing is that if there's one thing I buy, it's Bowser's durability. His job is only to create lasting damage and AoE mayhem if he's in an advantage state; otherwise, dude is a pure tank, through and through, and he KNOWS Mario's power-ups. Hell, the guy USES Mario's power-ups. You think he doesn't know how long lightning lasts or how long he's gotta avoid the Mega Mushroom? His shell completely no-sells Thwomps landing on him, he's been flattened by his own castle before (albeit in critical condition, but even with the size difference, I don't see Mega Mario Vs Mini Bowser being 'the size of his castle' ), and he has a knack for surviving and making it to Phase 2.

And that's really what I need from this match-up; "does Bowser live long enough to give Mewtwo an opening?" Because I agree Mewtwo loses the 1v3 quite easily, and probably the 1v2 if it's Aigis and Crono. But I don't think it's Aigis and Crono, I think it's Aigis and Mario, and I respect the Mario Finale about as much as I respect Bowser's patience; 'not'. I do think if Aigis doesn't take out DK and solely focuses on Mewtwo? He doesn't get the opening necessary. But I think if she's monitoring him, she'll HAVE to take DK out, and that either lets Mewtwo save Bowser and stop him from getting totally bodied, or kill Crono and cause Aigis to really start burning through her magic resources. This is an OBNOXIOUSLY close battle, though.

It hurts me that DK is simultaneously the most and least relevant character to me, based entirely around "who kills him and when?"

Oh I 100% think that when Mario is cappying DK, she'll fight Mewtwo.

It's when he's OUT that gets me worried. Aigis is incredibly obsessive, the whole "I do not see the issue of standing in his room and watching him all night, he is my special boy I will monitor him" routine being kinda baked into her personality. As soon as she senses that her friend Mario has exited the giant ape, I do not know if she'll be able to constantly keep up Aegis Shielding to protect everyone. Like it's more a personality issue for me than it is mercs magic just based on the implication that she's in her stalker mode.

So I do wanna prop Bowser up some here, because while he's getting (very rightly) disrespected, he's got some stuff. Check it.

https://youtu.be/xGLlaq5As0s

This is probably the most 'pure' Mario Vs Bowser duel you're gonna get - midgame, just Mario and Luigi Vs Bowser using I'd say about 60% of their respective Bowser's Inside Story arsenals. It takes the Mario Bros Double Team about five minutes to finish Bowser off when he's got no healing or backup, with Bowser specifically picking the fight because "see Mario, attack on sight". Of note is about 4:45 to show what Bowser's fire breath actually does when it's not just wimpy little fireballs. And to show that Bowser's actually willing to use his minion attacks mid-battle, like "50 fiery Goombas" or "let the Shy Guys slingshot me forward with a giant rubber band", which are funny and stupid attacks, but also Bowser starts with the high ground in this terrain and there's one entrance the enemy HAS to come out of, he's 100% meteoring himself at them. Jungle Japes has a lot of specific chokepoints with its tunnels, Bowser being able to block it up with his giant ass and fire makes a lot of his damage really inescapable. Do I think the DK possession screws this up? Absolutely, DK tosses Bowser around like nothing, but he doesn't KILL him. Bowser fell into the sun in Galaxy and then got up to whine that he lost as the universe imploded around him, and Bowser's accessories give him a little bit of healing every time he lands a physical hit. DK's able to break a giant evil obsidian egg by headbutting it repeatedly, but I don't see Mario cracking Bowser's shell within 15 seconds, especially considering he probably has to GET to DK since Bowser's 100% gonna be in his face faster than the big ape, on account of it's Bowser.

The one thing I did forget is that Aigis is dedicated on monitoring DK, which is... real bad. The moment she's prepared to snipe DK is a moment Mewtwo has open, and is one I didn't consider before. And if Mewtwo takes that moment to wipe Crono or prevent Mario from finishing off Bowser... that's real bad. I do think Aigis finishes off DK relatively quickly - he doesn't have anything to deal with that much precision at this range - but this essentially forces revives to be put into play immediately rather than in a war of attrition Vs Mewtwo.

I am leaning Team Mewtwo because I am seeing "there will be an opening", but damn this isn't a clean win for either side. Mewtwo striking down Crono early or Mario with a choice lightning to cover Aigis' moment of weakness clench it, but I don't buy that for either of them, at least not consistently.

God of War Ragnarok
Vampire Survivors

So here's my thinking at the moment:

-Mewtwo and Aigis both stay at their starting areas and get to heal off their ouchies.
-Aigis will likely try to press the advantage, because she is ALL ABOUT eliminating threats. Mario is capable of keeping up a little bit behind in his go-kart. Crono is... not. Mewtwo will likely get some buffs off before they meet.
-Mewtwo v Aigis is interesting as I do think Mewtwo solidly wins it, but I think Aigis is good enough at jumping around and dodging and I think her persona being activated via her inner systems/plume of dusk allows her to resist any sort of TK and get a good hit in. This is not to mention Aegis Shielding, which outright nulls psychic attacks if she's focusing on blocking with Pallas Athena. I think Mewtwo can develop counterplay pretty easy - Swift helps him chip things out especially, and he's capable of getting physical - but the thing is, I believe Aigis is a very annoying target for him to beat.
-Crono and Aigis have a solid lifeloop. I think that works once before Mewtwo Disables it.

My main focus right now is on Bowser. I don't think it's possible for him to win - he's fighting a Donkey Kong-fueled Mario and immediately after he's probably getting shrunken and has to avoid Giant Mario stomping on him. I also think Crono probably picks off a disoriented and likely shrunken DK (though not without a bit of effort). My question is mostly: just how much time does Bowser buy Mewtwo here? Mario Vs Bowser affairs have an obvious conclusion, but they're only fast if Bowser falls in a hole he makes for himself. Here, Bowser is on the backfoot constantly, but he KNOWS Mario's tricks. If he can hold out long enough for Mewtwo to figure out how to open Aigis like a tin can, I think he can clinch it for his team. He has nice tools for it - he's got passive healing on hit with his equipment, Terrorize and Poison Gas are great stall options, the Clown Car can let him run out the clock for a while and summon some minions for attacks - but there's no doubt that once Crono's done with DK, Bowser's time to live drastic go down.

Live a Live
AI The Somnium Files: The Nirvana Initiative

So I think it's absolutely hilarious that the Gravity Suit actually probably does not work against the Gravity Gun. In EVERY appearance, it explicitly mentions water resistance, with the only exception being Other M... wherein the Gravity Suit does not appear and is an entirely separate gravity upgrade because Sakamoto thought the purple suit looked ugly in cutscenes. Samus' suit is also ridiculously susceptible to getting screwed with, as it is in, like, every single Prime game. I actually kinda can buy a stasis lock if Gordon gets in close enough range or gets the drop on Samus and K Rool.

... getting the drop on both of them. At the same time. One of which has x-ray visors, BOTH of which can turn invisible. And like, do I think K Rool runs into random Ravenholm traps? Yeah. Do I think he uses that as a distraction that at least Jinx will almost definitely fall for so she has something to shoot? Also yeah.

Also Samus can do this now if you'd prefer to "Samus is invisible". She can't do both at once but, y'know.

https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/Lightning_Armor

I think that counters the initial assault pretty well, and Gordon and friends don't have the durability to throw it back.

... and then Kredits happens if y'know, that ain't enough.

K. Rool & Friend

Kirby and the Forgotten Land
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shredder's Revenge

I still see an issue even without snowballing.

Say your opponent purchases Jinx and you have Kirby. If Kirby copies Jinx, you suddenly have a Kirby who you barely even have to argue does the same thing, but has the benefit of Kirby's weirdly superior durability and the chance to bring in two other moves to fill other niches once Kirby very likely wins the mirror match. This is without bringing in any customization from slow-burn scaling, and applies to most 3/week characters (I think, like, Sagat and Kiryu are probably the largest outliers here, and that's almost entirely because they're physically based and their bodies are far more fit for those movesets than Kirby)

By the time you hit 4/week, you have guys whose durability can let them tangle with Kirby's reflected output a lot more uniformly. Regardless of base Kirby respect (which mine puts him pretty squarely in 4/week territory), mid tier allows for other mercs to actually out-DPS their own DPS at him. This is before the possibility of him bringing mid-tier copy abilities into low, which I feel is the right call, as letting him only bring in on-tier abilities makes the overall copy ability rather painfully slow and not worth the investment of something that can be lost (and I think he SHOULD be able to lose the abilities, creating an optimal Kirby is not fun for others to deal with).

I'm definitely up for debate on this, and if the copy ability was just "he gets a Smash Bros hat and can do the funny move" I can see the argument, but I think a fully gimped to be on-tier Kirby OR an undervalued Kirby with the potential to roll are both things that should be avoided and would make his inclusion unfun. And I feel like general respect for the guy is only trending up, casually speaking!

After Forgotten Land final boss I couldn't really justify Kirby at lower than 4/week. I don't think "lol planet destroyer endless power" without plot justification, but dude in base form (as in zero copy abilities) is tanking, dodging, and dishing back stuff from a monster who turns into a psychic kaiju, has teleport spam, and throws meteors and buildings, with no Star Rod or Chariot or anything.

Like even if he were limited to only same tier, I take "two FL copy abilities Kirby" plus whoever on the enemy team he's copying to roll most teams of 3/weeks, much less beat them 1v1. His results in show matches being "he was not argued in either match to just instantly die" and being an ability magnet out of fear I think more than justifies this.

Chained Echoes
Tunic
Frog Detective 3

Yes, my favorite in the series by quite a big margin!

God of War: Ragnarok
Citizen Sleeper
Vampire Survivors
Frog Detective 3