Lurker > CasanovaZelos

I don't feel like it's really Genwunning here. The overabundance of legendaries in later generations seems like something most fans agree on, while Mewtwo has been and continues to be in the spotlight. Most of these are Dex filler almost by design.

I'm going to be visiting family for a bit this weekend and likely won't be back until Sunday night, so the deadline will be sometime that evening.

Finally, my favorite Pokemon Sawsbuck appears.

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Seanchan posted...

Was this a big and/or important album at the time? Is it considered a classic?

I don't know how big it was in the popular sphere, but it is in the top 1000 on Acclaimed Music, so it's at least held up as important by critics.

Seanchan on his picks for this week:

Linkin Park got me to thinking back to my teenage years, and so I've nominated 3 pop-punk albums from that era. I suppose it's only a matter of degrees if these albums hold up better than Hybrid Theory. I'd say they're less angsty and more fun, even if that's only in tone.

I'm not going to say too much about the first 2 as I'm sure everyone has heard at least the big singles. My love for both these bands extends to at least 3-4 albums but I've got with their biggest release for obvious reasons.

Sum 41 - All Killer, No Filler - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMX2lPum_pg
Blink 182 - Enema of the State - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7l5ZeVVoCA

My last nom is a little more obscure, as their big hit from this album was a cover of The Boys of Summer. And to be honest, this album is the entirety of what I've ever listened to from them. But for whatever reason, it's stuck with me and continues to be an album I go back to.

The Ataris - So Long, Astoria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rJShgOe-9k

General Album Comments Continued

BlueCrystalTear: Well... I didn't particularly enjoy my preliminary listen. I've never heard this album before but I most certainly heard (and subsequently forgot about) a song of theirs back during their heyday.

Janus5k: Only ever owned Meteora as a teenager, though naturally I've heard a bunch of these as singles and in various other places. The screaming is hit-or-miss, but even putting nostalgia aside the top few tracks are still really good.

I'd never actually heard Pushing Me Away before - the pre-chorus reminds me of Numb, which was always one of my favorites from Meteora. Surprisingly "clean" considering the rest of the album, great closer and a pleasant surprise.

Hybrid Theory track ranking

12. Cure for the Itch (Track #11)
Score: 32 (Average Rank: 10.87/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#7)
Biggest Detractor(s): azuarc, neonreaper, Raetsel_Lapin, firefdr, ZeroSignal620, Lopen, HBJDubs, Steiner (#12)

firefdr: The only track I don't really care much about. While I wouldn't consider it bad, it was the only one I sometimes skipped while listening to the album.

11. Be Myself (Track #7)
Score: 62 (Average Rank: 9.13/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Janus5k, illuminatusbubu (#12)

neonreaper: Great song, love the pre-chorus (is that a thing?), don't care much for the actual chorus.

firefdr: I related so much to this song during the time I was depressed and down. The beginning still gives me the chills.

10. Forgotten (Track #10)
Score: 69 (Average Rank: 8.4/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Steiner (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#12)

neonreaper: Reminds me a bit of By Myself, and a bit of Points of Authority, where there's a catchy part of the song that I REALLY like but the singing part of the chorus doesn't really land at all for me.

firefdr: A song that is pretty much forgotten, it was rarely played live. It's a pretty catchy tune too.

9. Runaway (Track #6)
Score: 83 (Average Rank: 7.53/12)
Biggest Fan(s): illuminatusbubu (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper, ZeroSignal620, Steiner (#10)

neonreaper: I kinda like the song but it makes me think of Gravity Kills (better) or like some generic Korn/Limp Bizkit song (worse).

firefdr: Great chorus. Fun song.

8. Crawling (Track #5)
Score: 101 (Average Rank: 6.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Lopen, HBJDubs (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): VeryInsane (#12)

neonreaper: The crooning style parts are just not for me. I know the material is pure but it just feels like its pandering and it's a shame. But you gotta make a few bucks so I get it, and there's plenty of stuff to like on the album.

firefdr: This one is almost entirely sung by Chester. While I don't dislike the original screaming version, this one really shines in Reanimation.

7. With You (Track #3)
Score: 104 (Average Rank: 6.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): firefdr (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#12)

neonreaper: I love the 90's style industrial stuff in the background. Like God Lives Underwater and Two with 00's style vocals.

firefdr: COME OOOOOOOOON! Ever since first listening to this song live, it took the top stop and never looked back. It's so full of energy and gets me pumped up.

6. A Place for My Head (Track #9)
Score: 107 (Average Rank: 6.07/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Steiner (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Lopen (#11)

neonreaper: I like the song but the good stuff isn't as good as the songs above it. I do like the chorus better than a lot of the stuff above it, though!

firefdr: Great track, great chorus. A song that is much better live than in the album.

5. One Step Closer (Track #2)
Score: 114 (Average Rank: 5.6/12)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#9)

neonreaper: Banging single. It lacks any sort of nuance but it's great for it, and a bit relatable even if we don't walk around feeling like this 24/7 the way we did as young people. Probably heard this song more than I needed to but happy to hear it these days.

firefdr: The song that started it all. When basically all of the music I consumed came from MTV, this was the one that introduced me to the band.

4. Pushing Me Away (Track #12)
Score: 131 (Average Rank: 5.27/12)
Biggest Fan(s): azuarc, Lopen (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): firefdr (#11)

neonreaper: I like the cascade guitar sound. Much of the album uses it, but it really fits a final track like this, along with Chester's vocals.

firefdr: This is a pretty good song to end the album with. While it sits near the bottom, I enjoy it quite a bit.

3. Points of Authority (Track #4)
Score: 136 (Average Rank: 4.8/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, illuminatusbubu (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#11)

neonreaper: "F-f-f-f-forfeit the game" that part always got my so hype. I wish the chorus was a bit better. Again there's a bit of God Lives Underwater in the music here.

firefdr: Love the guitar, love the turntables in this one. The Reanimation version is even better.

2. Papercut (Track #1)
Score: 154 (Average Rank: 4.13/12)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper, ZeroSignal620, Johnbobb, VeryInsane (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#12)

neonreaper: Killer opening tune. Easy to enjoy, gives you the strong points of the band, classic opener and it wasn't played to death like the other singles.

firefdr: What an amazing opening track. The rapping is great, Chester's chorus is really fun to sing along to. A great song and an even greater music video to go with it.

ZeroSignal620: It's rare that the opening song on a band's debut album would be the best thing they've done, but Linkin Park pulls that off with Papercut. It not only sets the stage for a solid album, but also sets the stage for a run that's generated 7 albums across two decades.

1. In the End (Track #8)
Score: 182 (Average Rank: 2.87/12)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, HBJDubs, Steiner, Janus5k (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#8)

neonreaper: Classic, nothing really wrong with this song. So straightforward with how depressed these guys are/were. I like how often they don't blame others - this is so authentic (and I'd say this even if dude was still alive).

firefdr: Ah, the classic. It hits so hard now. A song that is pretty much flawless. I remember learning the piano part in the intro/ending. Good times.

Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
Seanchan (14)
ZeroSignal620 (16)
firefdr (20)
Raetsel_Lapin (22)
Janus5k (22)
HBJDubs (24)
CasanovaZelos (26)
VeryInsane (26)
azuarc (26)
Steiner (30)
illuminatusbubu (30)
Lopen (32)
Johnbobb (34)
neonreaper (36)
Snake5555555555 (54)

General Album Comments

CasanovaZelos: Linkin Park is a band I have always struggled to take seriously. Their music feels like someone trying way too hard to be cool, and the rapping sections really do not help. I feel like this might upset some, but they exist in the same mental sphere as Spice Girls for me, very much a product of their time.

Yet, there's something that occasionally brings me back to their sound, and I think it is for the same reason Spice occasionally draws me back - there are few albums that capture their own time like this one, an unintended relic that paints a vibrant picture of a certain era. For better or worse, Hybrid Theory is compellingly itself. My point of comparison is usually Donnie Darko - drowning in young angst, but if you can only remember what it was like to be an angsty teenager, you can feel how effortlessly this works as a reflection.

Snake5555555555: This album nearly brings me to tears man - so goddamn nostalgic. I would play this album on a loop while playing Runescape, and I still know every word and every beat from the top to the bottom. Sure, Meteora's better, but there's just something so raw and emotional about this one too - they really did the whole rap metal better than anyone, and that's because they infused it with accessible pop sensibilities that gave it such a broad reaching appeal.

azuarc: Oh hey, it's an album I can rank more or less off my head AND that I actually saw the topic for in time.

Hybrid Theory is a special album to me for a few reasons. The first is that it was the introduction to one of my favorite bands, obviously. The second is that it was one of the first albums that came out and that I latched onto after leaving home for college, meaning I didn't make the decision to buy it with any approbation or influence from friends. And the third is that college was the time when I genuinely felt the effects of depression, and one of the few things that helped with that, even if it sometimes felt more like an echo chamber, was music. The teenage-y angst and rage of Hybrid Theory suited me perfectly back then. A few of the tracks don't resonate the way they used to, and I always focused more on the sound than on the lyrics anyhow, but for all that I basically never listen to "real" music in lieu of VGM these days, this was a great excuse to revisit those feelings 20 years later.

I almost didn't buy the album. After One Step Closer debuted, I looked at the album cover in the store and passed because, I thought, "They look like a rock version of a boy band." To be fair, if you look at the picture, you might see where I'm coming from, but when Crawling came out a month later, I said fuck it and went in. The whole album was amazing, but the first track I took note of was In the End, which of course, ended up being the third major single. (And at some point Papercut was released, too? I never heard that one on the radio, though.)

In ranking these, Crawling was always going to be the wild card. A tremendously popular song when it came out, and then massively hated on for years after as emblematic of the band and youthful rage of the early 00's, I've always had a fond place for it, but I wasn't sure where it would land. I knew the other singles -- including Papercut, which has always been a pet favorite -- would land high, but would I put Crawling above, below, or distanced by B-sides? I absolutely adore the Reanimation version of the track, but I ultimate landed on third behind In the End.

However, first place was never in question. Pushing Me Away has always been my favorite. A very unheralded track, and I'm curious to see where it finishes in the overall rankings. Everything in the second half of the list could be reshuffled (except Cure for the Itch,) so I apologize to the With You and By Myself fans. I went with a very quick reaction because I've listened to these songs probably hundreds of times...just not in the last decade.

Seanchan: My feelings on this one are complicated.

I haven't listened to Hybrid Theory in probably 15 years. I was a big fan at the time. I remember listening to this as I was touring colleges with my parents. It was a pretty big deal of an album. Also loved (at the time) the remix album and the follow up (Meteora). Other than some of the singles after that I fell away from the band.

This is very much a product of its time. The band may have evolved (not for me to say) but this album is so early 2000s Nu Metal it's crazy.

I don't know what someone who has no familiarity with this album would think. Or if this would still resonate with a modern teenager. Listening to this as a grown ass man though, it's kind of cringe-y bad? All that teenage angst, the screamy vocals, the "cool" rapping...

I've said this before with Toxicity, but Nu Metal is nothing I want to go back to. Korn, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, etc. all shit I'm embarrassed that I used to enjoy. There's a small amount of nostalgic love but it aint much.

neonreaper: Great album. Having a hard time really posting my thoughts, but the rankings are easy enough

firefdr: I used to adore Linkin Park during my teenage years. This was the very first album I purchased for myself and one I would listen to over and over again.
Linkin Park was also the first band I've ever seen live, funnily enough.
It still remains to this day one of my favorite bands and frequently appears in my Spotify wrapped.
While this is not my favourite album from them, it still holds a very special place.

Seanchan: As usual, my final listen tends to moderate my opinions somewhat. There's stuff here that I still do like, especially some of the beats/instrumentation, but a lot of Chester's screamy vocals are offputting (to me, in the year 2022).

As an album, I think this is likely objectively better/more interesting than my subjective opinions that are colored by my history. ...If that makes any sense? I struggled trying to figure out where to rank the album, with the conflicting thoughts of "I wouldn't really want to listen to this again" versus "but this is kind of better than Other Album".

Lopen: I've always liked Linkin Park, even well after it stopped becoming cool to do so. Everything on this Album I've listened to many many times. Cure for the Itch was the only one I'd ever skip. I don't really dwell on the lyrics too much. Like I get it, and I've been on the border of depression a few times in my life so I can say they relate enough to things I've felt that I do feel authentic, not pandering to make moneys. But yeah I'm not gonna say that's why I'm into it at all, it's not like my identity or anything.

I just like the unique sound. Chester's vocal sound is very distinctive and enjoyable as long as he's not getting too screamy (which is usually not the case in their songs-- screaming in moderation is fine) and I love how Shinoda's rapping complements it. I'm a sucker for the use of the synthy keyboard stuff-- big part of the reason Crawling is one of my more liked songs and why I'm one of the few to rank runaway highly in here. The weaker songs for me tend to lean into the rap element harder and marginalize the keyboard, generally. Meteora is a bit better overall probably. I really need to listen to their last three albums at some point as the last album I listened to was A Thousand Suns.

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, May 29 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Mos Def - Black on Both Sides track list:
1. Fear Not of Man
2. Hip Hop
3. Love
4. Ms. Fat Booty
5. Speed Law
6. Do It Now
7. Got
8. Umi Says
9. New World Water
10. Rock N Roll
11. Know That
12. Climb
13. Brooklyn
14. Habitat
15. Mr. *****
16. Mathematics
17. May-December

User Cycle:
5/29: VeryInsane (Japanese Breakfast - Jubilee)
6/5: CasanovaZelos (Portishead - Third)
6/12: Seanchan
6/19: Giggsalot
6/26: RyoCaliente
7/3: darkx
7/10: neonreaper
7/17: Great_Paul
7/24: jcgamer107
7/31: ChichiriMuyo
8/7: BlueCrystalTear
8/14: MetalmindStats
8/21: HBJDubs
8/28: Raetsel_Lapin
9/4: TheArkOfTurus
9/11: Steiner
9/18: Snake5555555555
9/25: Jesse_Custer
10/2: ZaziGuado
10/9: firefdr
10/16: Johnbobb

Add me to the accidentally voted rap list

I am not a fan of the original but do plan to see the new one

I won't lock the topic

But it should be implicit that I'm talking about Linkin Park circa Hybrid Theory considering this is a topic explicitly about Hybrid Theory. Them eventually changing their style as their career progressed doesn't really change my opinion of Hybrid Theory. Essentially, I made questionable use of a synecdoche.

Especially when I go on to say that Hybrid Theory is actually a rather sincere album - I contradict my own claim about them trying to be cool by saying that "Hybrid Theory is compellingly itself". As in, even if I historically struggled with this band (as someone who was 7 when this album came out and thus too young for it to actually resonate emotionally at its height), I think it endures in a way few others of its time do.

This is a topic about discussing music. I shared my opinion on the album this week. You, having never participated here before, pop in without discussing the music but instead to insult me for not liking this music. The fact you don't know the difference between someone expressing their opinion on music and insulting someone else directly is a problem. It's clear you feel personally insulted when people don't like things you like, or the opposite.

Sorry, I am going to close this topic now. I am not comfortable hosting this week if this is the crowd it is bringing in.

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Commodore posted...

For the reading impaired. "They evolved into so much more."

I don't understand why you are being so aggressive over someone not liking the same music as you. What exactly does this add to anything?

...they were not trying to be cool but also started as a Nu Metal band because it was popular?

Linkin Park is a band I have always struggled to take seriously. Their music feels like someone trying way too hard to be cool, and the rapping sections really do not help. I feel like this might upset some, but they exist in the same mental sphere as Spice Girls for me, very much a product of their time.

Yet, there's something that occasionally brings me back to their sound, and I think it is for the same reason Spice occasionally draws me back - there are few albums that capture their own time like this one, an unintended relic that paints a vibrant picture of a certain era. For better or worse, Hybrid Theory is compellingly itself. My point of comparison is usually Donnie Darko - drowning in young angst, but if you can only remember what it was like to be an angsty teenager, you can feel how effortlessly this works as a reflection.

My rank:
In the End
One Step Closer
Crawling
Points of Authority
Papercut
A Place for My Head
Runaway
Pushing Me Away
Forgotten
Cure for the Itch
With You
Be Myself

Easily one of the greatest short films ever created and the other episodes are also great in their own unique ways.

Have you seen It's Such a Beautiful Day? It's Hertzfeldt's only full-length feature (well...60ish minutes) and it's truly one of the best films I've ever seen. The emotions this man can create through stick figure drawings and top-tier editing is something that seems impossible until you experience it. But also it destroys me even more than World of Tomorrow so be warned.

I mentioned having three themes in mind for my week - I decided to simply choose my favorite of each theme.

SOPHIE - Oil of Every Pearl's Un-Insides:
There were two moments at the beginning of last year that inspired me to create this topic series - Daft Punk announcing their break-up and the tragic death of SOPHIE. More than any other artist, I think SOPHIE helped push the limits of what music could be throughout the 2010s. She helped push the Bubblegum Bass/Hyperpop style to the semi-mainstream with her early singles - then, with her debut album, she juxtaposed those tracks with their exact opposite, some of the harshest electronic music I have experienced that I first saw referred to as 'Post-Industrial' but still feel so beyond us that any modern term feels insufficient. As such, I have to share two tracks to really do this album justice (and I think it would be fun to rank due to the extreme difference between these styles).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv3yIv9nwf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ6ppVyWgCI

Black Country, New Road - Ants From Up There:
My second favorite album of this year so far, and another that seems to defy genre boundaries. They land solidly in the post-rock genre - but where their debut came with clear Slint influences, BCNR really found their own, more mellow direction on their sophomore album. This is music that sounds endlessly expansive, and my only hesitance with it is kind of feels like too much to truly analyze in just a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjC4qXiBRu4

Portishead - Third:
Another experimental album, though this one has been around enough for its legacy to be firmly established. Next to Silent Shout, I think this might be the most atmospherically dense album of the 2000s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbJeiWYFrio

CasanovaZelos: I think part of why this and Evermore vibe with me more than most of the earlier Taylor Swift albums is the presence of Aaron Dessner as a producer. There are several songs here which sound like a perfect midpoint between Swift and The National - and as someone who prefers the latter, this works great. I do agree this feels longer than it should, and the front half feels notably stronger. Nevertheless, it casts Swift in a more mature light. Additionally, its somber mood helps solidify its place as one of the leading COVID response albums - not that it directly acknowledges the pandemic, but its sparse atmosphere feels like a direct reflection of those first few months in lockdown. And even if it could stand to lose a few tracks, the top half for me here are all great.

Seanchan: I liked this a bit more on my 3rd listen. Maybe the dreary, cloudy atmosphere of the day was a better fit for the album. There's actually a lot to like about Folklore, even if it's not as "fun" as her earlier album that we covered. It's definitely 3-4 songs too long though.

I went back to listen to Speak Now a bit, as I tried to figure out where this fits in my album rankings. I still like that one more but it's closer than I would have initially expected.

VeryInsane: my ranking got deleted so going a bit by memory

Was a good album though! Remembered enjoying it when it came out

MetalmindStats: With about ten similarly strong songs producing a potently tempered ambiance, I likely would have been over the moon about folklore had it been a bit shorter. As it is, the tracks that I felt leaned into its title and theme the most (mainly seven and the last great american dynasty) gained a sort of tiebreaking edge

Folklore Track Ranking

16. Epiphany (Track #13)
Score: 28 (Average Rank: 13.3/16)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555, BlueCrystalTear, VeryInsane (#16)

15. Hoax (Track #16)
Score: 32 (Average Rank: 12.8/16)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, MetalmindStats (#16)

14. Peace (Track #15)
Score: 34 (Average Rank: 12.6/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Jakyl25 (#9)
Biggest Detractor(s): ZaziGuado, MetalmindStats (#15)

13. Illicit Affairs (Track #10)
Score: 49 (Average Rank: 11.1/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Jakyl25 (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos (#15)

11 (tie). Invisible String (Track #11)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 10.9/16)
Biggest Fan(s): ZaziGuado (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Jakyl25 (#16)

11 (tie). Mad Woman (Track #12)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 10.9/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): ZaziGuado (#16)

10. Seven (Track #7)
Score: 67 (Average Rank: 9.8/16)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jakyl25, BlueCrystalTear (#15)

9. Mirrorball (Track #6)
Score: 73 (Average Rank: 8.7/16)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, VeryInsane (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555, ZaziGuado (#13)

8. My Tears Ricochet (Track #5)
Score: 77 (Average Rank: 8.3/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Jakyl25, ZaziGuado (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear (#13)

7. The 1 (Track #1)
Score: 93 (Average Rank: 6.9/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#13)

6. This Is Me Trying (Track #9)
Score: 95 (Average Rank: 7.1/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#14)

4 (tie). August (Track #8)
Score: 109 (Average Rank: 5.9/16)
Biggest Fan(s): VeryInsane (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, CasanovaZelos (#12)

4 (tie). Betty (Track #14)
Score: 109 (Average Rank: 5.9/16)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#16)

3. The Last Great American Dynasty (Track #3)
Score: 122 (Average Rank: 4.8/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jakyl25, HBJDubs (#12)

2. Cardigan (Track #2)
Score: 131 (Average Rank: 4.1/16)
Biggest Fan(s): Jakyl25, HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): ZaziGuado (#8)

1. Exile (Track #4)
Score: 149 (Average Rank: 2.9/16)
Biggest Fan(s): ZaziGuado, CasanovaZelos, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#7)

Taylor Swift - Folklore results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
Seanchan (26)
VeryInsane (32)
MetalmindStats (34)
CasanovaZelos (35)
BlueCrystalTear (37)
Snake5555555555 (47)
Raetsel_Lapin (47)
Jakyl25 (48)
ZaziGuado (52)
HBJDubs (66)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: Did a first listen to Folklore. It was certainly less pop-y than Speak Now. Kinda felt a bit one note, but I think a lot of that is just that it's 16 songs and an hour long, and my mind started to wander by the end.

darkx: Yeah I'm just gonna say outright that I don't agree with the overwhelming opinion that this is her best album. In fact I don't even think I'd put it in my top 3.

Snake5555555555: I wouldn't either (it doesn't even make top 5 for me). I do also think it gets a little one note in spots musically even if Swift's lyrical writing never really falters here. That's where I think the sister album follow-up Evermore shines even brighter because there's more texture and vibrant musical soundscapes than Folklore.

Raetsel_Lapin: I highly enjoyed this album, but it does feel a bit too long.

Seanchan: Second listen done.

I figured out what my "problem" is with this album. As someone who typically doesn't care very much about lyrics, this is an exhausting album! Sixteen songs and there's really not too much here other than the lyrics. So when my mind starts to wander, there are no solos, riffs, beats, or whatever to bring me back. It's like I've got to pay attention the entire time.

Everything here feels like it's the same tempo and about the same subject (young love, unrequited young love, young love falling apart). I could feel myself latching onto anything different, which is why I already know what my #1 song is going to be. Swift has got a nice voice but I just need more variety, which Speak Now definitely had more of.

BlueCrystalTear: Like I said when not voting for it, this album is VERY same-y. Sure, it's a course-correction from reputation and Lover, but it still doesn't compare to the sheer delight of Fearless, Speak Now, and Red. All those albums had those "young love" themes too (and the latter two had Taylor blasting some of her critics) and yet were an engaging listen because of the variety. Like Seanchan said, this album requires concentrated effort to process fully. It's exhaustingly long (especially for a dark and repetitive album) and would benefit from cutting four tracks. It's for this reason that I expect many of the later tracks to be ranked lowly, since people start tuning out. Track order absolutely matters on an album this redundant.

I can't see myself giving this a second listen this week. I've heard this album twice before this and half of these songs are still indistinguishable. Once you hit a certain point, they all blend together, and not in a good way. Speak Now is a much superior album and that's my hill to die on. The only song on this album that gave me shades of "Old Taylor" was "betty" and that's precisely why it's #1 for me. "this is me trying" was... relatable AF for me. Honestly my top 5 (maybe 6?) is all that matters and everything after that all blends together. And tbh... I'm feeling sedated by too much doom and gloom.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a nap.

Jakyl25: I dont know about the idea that there are a lot of songs about young love on here. Theres the Cardigan/August/Betty trilogy about all three sides of a young love triangle, but thats all I see. Invisible String is trite enough to count I suppose. All the other songs about relationships are more mature and reflective. TLGAD, My Tears Ricochet, Seven, Mad Woman, Epiphany, [The Lakes,] arent about romance at all.

If you want more variety you would love Evermore!

Snake5555555555: Seven is a particular stand-out for me since it's about child abuse and on top of that written from a second-hand perspective. Swift has written about childhood before but never quite like that. It's impressive and mixes darkness with childhood innocence and naivety so-well.

ZaziGuado: I think Folklore can serve two purposes. For me it's most often a mood album where I put it on to decompress. While I wouldn't call it one-note, I will say each song does a really good at evoking a wistful nostalgia that can lend to the tracks bleeding together. But I personally think there's a beauty in that. I've listened to the album enough to where each song can stand on its own, though, and I think they are rankable if you are listening to it with that goal in mind. For those who choose to actively listen to the stories Swift is telling, I think the album is a masterclass in songwriting and very memorable from a lyrical standpoint.

I will concede it gets long. I would personally chop off three songs and then I think you have a nigh-perfect album if you are in a certain mood.

Raetsel_Lapin (Responding to Snake): I do like the song, but I feel like she's writing from the perspective of someone much younger than seven years old. Four or five, maybe, but seven feels way too old to be blaming abuse on ghosts or dreaming about living as a pirate. Though I suppose I'll concede that my perspective is a bit skewed for *reasons* and refrain from pushing the issue any further.

(Responding to Seanchan): Ah, see, I'm the exact opposite way. I tend to get drawn into songs for their lyrics and emotions, so I found this album to be one of the more interesting ones we've covered and probably better than Speak Now--I recall feeling Speak Now had way too many songs about exes and getting a bit monotonous at times as a result, but I'll concede that I haven't listened to the album in a while and would need a refresher to accurately compare the two.

Anywho... I think the album covered a lot of ground? Portraying a love triangle from all three perspectives was relatively novel, even if "cardigan" was the only part of the trilogy that I loved, and I feel like most of tracks offered a distinct enough experience. I just think the album was too much of a good thing; I love what she's doing here, but I don't really want to sit through what she's doing for over an hour straight. I'd honestly prefer to have this album broken into two weeks, with 8 songs per week--not because I don't like it, but it's just a bit much. I want to take my time and fully experience the emotions on display here, but there's just <i>so very much</i> here that the album feels less than the sum of its parts.

...still, I really did enjoy it and think it's close to the top-tier albums we've ever covered here. Just... kinda long.

ZaziGuado: Tiered the tracks as well just for fun. Exile has been number one for awhile now and I don't think anything else on the album could knock it off that perch. I really love the contrasting layers between Swift and Vernon. Peace and Mad Woman are the easy weak points for me on the album as well. I just find them a little on the boring side and represent spots where the album starts to really show its length. Everything in between are varying degrees of great, though the front half of the album is definitively stronger than the back half, which also doesn't help stave off how long the album can feel. I don't normally have an issue with this given how and when I listen to it, but I can't deny it.

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, May 22 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory:
1. Papercut
2. One Step Closer
3. With You
4. Points of Authority
5. Crawling
6. Runaway
7. Be Myself
8. In the End
9. A Place for My Head
10. Forgotten
11. Cure for the Itch
12. Pushing Me Away

User Cycle:
5/22: Johnbobb (Mos Def - Black on Both Sides)
5/29: VeryInsane (Japanese Breakfast - Jubilee)
6/5: CasanovaZelos
6/12: Seanchan
6/19: Giggsalot
6/26: RyoCaliente
7/3: darkx
7/10: neonreaper
7/17: Great_Paul
7/24: jcgamer107
7/31: ChichiriMuyo
8/7: BlueCrystalTear
8/14: MetalmindStats
8/21: HBJDubs
8/28: Raetsel_Lapin
9/4: TheArkOfTurus
9/11: Steiner
9/18: Snake5555555555
9/25: Jesse_Custer
10/2: ZaziGuado
10/9: firefdr

Final day to vote

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Can I switch "exile" with "the last great american dynasty" on my ranking, or is my submission final?

I forget because I haven't seen anybody do this; it's really no big deal. It's just that I'm remembering "exile" better after a couple days.

Sure, though reposting the full ranking will be helpful.

I think part of why this and Evermore vibe with me more than most of the earlier Taylor Swift albums is the presence of Aaron Dessner as a producer. There are several songs here which sound like a perfect midpoint between Swift and The National - and as someone who prefers the latter, this works great. I do agree this feels longer than it should, and the front half feels notably stronger. Nevertheless, it casts Swift in a more mature light. Additionally, its somber mood helps solidify its place as one of the leading COVID response albums - not that it directly acknowledges the pandemic, but its sparse atmosphere feels like a direct reflection of those first few months in lockdown. And even if it could stand to lose a few tracks, the top half for me here are all great.

My track ranking:
Exile
The Last Great American Dynasty
Betty
Mirrorball
Cardigan
Invisible String
The 1
My Tears Ricochet
Seven
This Is Me Trying
Mad Woman
August
Peace
Epiphany
Illicit Affairs
Hoax

Still wrapping my head around Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers this morning. A problem I've realized with doing my top 3 albums of the year so far is, if this lands there, I have two albums in the 70-80 minute range with 18-20 tracks. I have two other possible weeks in mind that maybe I should consider instead.

Basically, these are my three weeks that I've been jumping between:

My top 3 this year so far:
Big Thief - Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You
Black Country, New Road - Ants from Up There
either Wet Leg - Wet Leg or Kendrick Lamar - Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers (or maybe Spiritualized's new album)

I'm leaning more toward Wet Leg currently because I'd rather tackle more recent acts hitting their peaks (...and I'd rather us get to To Pimp a Butterfly eventually and don't want people to be dissuaded by him having two albums already)

late 2000s electronic:
Portishead - Third
Fever Ray - Fever Ray
Burial - Untrue

Since Silent Shout came out on top of our most recent Rank the Albums, I figure it might be a good idea to do a darkly atmospheric electronic album from the same era (including the lead singer's solo debut)

Recentish Queer Albums:
SOPHIE - Oil of Every Pearl's Un-Insides
Perfume Genius - Set My Heart on Fire Immediately
Fever Ray - Plunge

I mainly just want to cover SOPHIE at some point, but this also gets a Fever Ray appearance for anyone wanting more from The Knife and these are three artists who have really inspired me in several ways

Anyone have strong opinions toward any of these options?

I also just got this after forgetting all about it.

bump

Still need to get around to re-listening to Folklore.

As for this week's choices, I love all three. I'm going to see Japanese Breakfast this summer and am very hyped.

I do feel the need to note that I largely can't remember the names of characters in many of my favorite films. That's not something that sticks in my head. I think, if anything, that video proves that the Avengers and Star Wars characters are as much marketing icons as they are characters - one of the people interviewed even admits to never watching either franchise. There's a difference in what will stick with people between a standalone film and a multimedia franchise. Once Avatar morphs into an actual franchise with multiple entries, I'm sure people will start remembering.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

You would be hard pressed to find Joe Schmo on the street enthusiastic about Avatar.

What is this?

I went to this website and I can't even figure out how to navigate it. The About page says it's just a couple of guys compiling stuff?

It's a website that compiles critical year-end and all-time lists. For whatever reason, Avatar is the rare modern blockbuster to actually do really well there. Not sure why, but it seems to be a rare example of critics liking a blockbuster more than the populace - its higher there than The Lord of the Rings, even.

Not that I don't find its placement absurd, but it's definitely a respected film in a lot of places.

Is Avatar not respected? It's the second highest film from 2009 on They Shoot Pictures and it still has a 7.8/10 on IMDB. I feel like the people who dislike it are just very vocal about it since it made so much money, but there are still many who love it. Maybe not for the narrative, but there are plenty of other reasons.

Does a blockbuster require a good story? Is it not enough to just be very pretty?

In this case, it's an album being released this week. I wanted to do my three favorite albums of 2022 so far and I'm hoping Kendrick Lamar's new album cracks that space - I also think it would be fun to do an album while it's still in the spotlight. Especially with no singles (since I doubt The Heart Part 5 is on the album), it will be an interesting ranking experience.

I already have two albums from this year that probably cracked my all-time top 250 and quite a gulf until #3. So, here's hoping Kendrick doesn't suddenly disappoint.

Snake5555555555 posted...

Smile?!

Like, The Beach Boys' Smile? That essentially exists at this point, right?

Murphiroth posted...

Yeah I don't buy this at all. People don't remember the events of Avatar or even character names. They just remember blue people and 3D.

I remember Jake Sully! If only because people keep bringing up the fact that no one remembers it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZrX_ES93JA

My choices for next week will likely include an album that does not yet exist.

It's weird to be voting Seadra when I'm pretty sure its line is the one I forget the most while doing the Gen I Sporcle quiz. It really is a cool design, but kind of tucked away in the original games (...as are most of the fishing rod Pokemon, but I feel like Horsea in particular appears well after I would have already built a team).

Of course, I never forget Kingdra when tackling Gen II, if only because of its status as the only Gen II dragon type/presence as the final gym leader's signature Pokemon. Seadra jumped from hard to find to overshadowed in a single generation, which is a shame.

VeryInsane on this week's choices:

Frank Ocean - Blonde

Tough choice between this and Channel Orange, I slightly prefer this even if I think the latter is more accessible, R+B with very deeply personal lyrics and excellent sound mixing.

Japanese Breakfast -Jubilee

My favorite Album of 2021, good dream pop album

The Mountain Goats - The Sunset Tree

Probably one of, if not my favorite live experience. Loved seeing them live. My personal favorite album by Darnielle and friends, its a neat folkish low fi album.

Hotel California track ranking

9. Pretty Maids All in a Row (Track #7)
Score: 25 (Average Rank: 7.5/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, HBJDubs (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jesse_Custer, Seanchan, MetalmindStats (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: The silence is unnecessary and the shortness of this one gets drowned out by those around it. It's still good though!

8. Wasted Time (Reprise) (Track #5)
Score: 31 (Average Rank: 7.1/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Snake5555555555, neonreaper, ZeroSignal620, HBJDubs (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: If we're really separating them; AFAIK the band no longer does.

7. Victim of Love (Track #6)
Score: 37 (Average Rank: 6.4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: This one is forgettable because of just how great the rest is. That and this was primarily Don Felder's song, so Henley didn't have the same passion for it that he does his own compositions.

6. Try and Love Again (Track #8)
Score: 46 (Average Rank: 5.7/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jesse_Custer, Raetsel_Lapin (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: The only Randy Meisner vocal here. It's not Take It to the Limit but it's almost there.

5. The Last Resort (Track #9)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 5.4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Jesse_Custer, MetalmindStats (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: While it goes on a little too long, its still epic, and I honestly feel bad putting it this low.

4. New Kid in Town (Track #2)
Score: 60 (Average Rank: 4.4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper, ZeroSignal620 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: Its surprising that this is the only Glenn Frey vocal on here, and that alone makes it a standout since its among his best.

3. Wasted Time (Track #4)
Score: 69 (Average Rank: 4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: Underrated Don Henley ballad. The instrumental outro (originally separated due to LP restrictions) punctuates it, too.

2. Life in the Fast Lane (Track #3)
Score: 76 (Average Rank: 3.3/9)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, HBJDubs (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#6)

BlueCrystalTear: A song that somehow manages to mix the thrills of drug dealing with the eventual placation one feels. Probably because of the drugs themselves.

1. Hotel California (Track #1)
Score: 125 (Average Rank: 1.2/9)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Jesse_Custer, Snake5555555555, BlueCrystalTear, neonreaper, Seanchan, ZeroSignal620, HBJDubs, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#3)

BlueCrystalTear: Like those guitars. The theme. All the good stuff.

Eagles - Hotel California results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
BlueCrystalTear (8)
ZeroSignal620 (8)
neonreaper (10)
MetalmindStats (10)
Jesse_Custer (12)
Seanchan (12)
CasanovaZelos (14)
Snake5555555555 (14)
HBJDubs (16)
Raetsel_Lapin (24)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: Already did a first listen to Hotel California. Obviously I've heard the title track before; it's a absolute classic. The rest of the album kinda failed to grab me though, which I wasn't expecting.

CasanovaZelos: Hotel California is one of my prime examples of a classic album I keep trying and failing to appreciate. The title track is a certified classic, and I don't think there's anything weak here, but there's little that really grabs me otherwise. It's a pretty good album that is always treated as one of the all-time greats and I have probably listened to it at least a dozen times and I just don't see it.

Snake5555555555: Eagles might be my favorite band in which I don't have any attachment to at least one particular album; Hotel California comes the closest to fully capturing what the Eagles are all about however - they're funky, they're country, and when they need to - they rock and they rock hard. Whether you like or resonate with this sound or not, you have to admit just how tight and precisely written all the tracks here are. I've always liked how the Eagles trade off vocal duties - it gives the album such a lively and varied feel and makes each song memorable and distinct in their own ways, from the soft rock ballads like Wasted Time to the epic surrealist journey of Hotel California - like going on a road trip with your best buddies and getting each person's unique perspective on a different facet of the experience. It's an album soaked in night time chilly desert sands, rock-and-roll romance, and ultimately facing up to ones' mortality and effect on the world. If the Eagles were trying to capture a moment of place and time - I think they succeeded in spades and I think it's why it resonates with millions of people worldwide to this day.

Steiner: if i listen to this it will be the first time i've heard the eagles that is not hotel california

Seanchan (responding to Steiner): I thought it was the same boat for me but, you've probably heard Life in the Fast Lane before. They also have a few other songs, not on this album, that I was familiar with but didn't know they were Eagles songs.

BlueCrystalTear: Ive always thought of this album as Don Henleys masterpiece, even though it was his "brother" - the late great Glenn Frey - who was getting into shouting matches and altercations with the other band members during the tumultuous time of turnover. I would think that the conflicts actually fueled Henley and Frey's musical creativity and helped contribute such a fantastic direction, since they didn't listen to Bernie Leadon (who left because they weren't going to do another Desperado). I think the fighting fueled the passion, which always contributes to success. The whole album is fun and does the good moods and the not-so-good moods well. At least at this point, the guys were able to work harmoniously together to produce something awesome.

neonreaper: I am having a hard time giving this album a write up. To me I guess it captures a 20something vibe, girls and booze and responsibilities and trying to come to grips with big thoughts about the big world. It's like going on an adventure while recapping the adventure and realizing that the adventures are coming to an end, or, something. I've never really looked up what any of these songs mean so you could tell me they're all about Vietnam, I wouldn't know.

Seanchan: This one grew on me a bit from repeated listens. It never really lives up to the title track, and I certainly wouldn't call it a favorite by any means, but there's a certain pretty, listenability to it.

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, May 15 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Taylor Swift - Folklore:
1. The 1
2. Cardigan
3. The Last Great American Dynasty
4. Exile
5. My Tears Ricochet
6. Mirrorball
7. Seven
8. August
9. This Is Me Trying
10. Illicit Affairs
11. Invisible String
12. Mad Woman
13. Epiphany
14. Betty
15. Peace
16. Hoax

User Cycle:
5/15: firefdr (Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory)
5/22: Johnbobb (Mos Def - Black on Both Sides)
5/29: VeryInsane
6/5: CasanovaZelos
6/12: Seanchan
6/19: Giggsalot
6/26: RyoCaliente
7/3: darkx
7/10: neonreaper
7/17: Great_Paul
7/24: jcgamer107
7/31: ChichiriMuyo
8/7: BlueCrystalTear
8/14: MetalmindStats
8/21: HBJDubs
8/28: Raetsel_Lapin
9/4: TheArkOfTurus
9/11: Steiner
9/18: Snake5555555555
9/25: Jesse_Custer
10/2: ZaziGuado

Last day to vote