Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Serenade (4-3)

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Board 8 » Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Serenade (4-3)
KamikazePotato
04/06/2024
01:22 PM
#51
The DS showing its age was a problem, but yes, the lion's share of the blame can be laid at AA4. There are certain entrants just suck the hype out of a franchise. Even if they survive, they're limping afterwards. Similar example would be Mega Man Battle Network 4.

DD and Spirit of Justice did okay (Capcom specifically said they 'met expectations') but they would have done better if AA4 wasn't bad. The reason the series keeps going is because new people keep discovering the games they actually love: AA1 through 3. Ace Attorney Trilogy is by FAR the most successful release in the series. Comparatively, the Apollo Justice Trilogy just released and is kinda bombing on Steam, because Apollo does not put asses in seats.
It's Reyn Time.
hombad46
04/06/2024
01:25 PM
#52
KamikazePotato posted...
EDIT: Also difficult to say there was a payoff when Apollo himself gets a new backstory every game!

Shame his own game forgot to give him a backstory besides a reveal about his mother that he himself does not know to this day
It's tempting to linger in this moment, while every possibility still exists. But unless collapsed by an observer, they will never be more than possibilities.
LightningStrikes
04/06/2024
01:26 PM
#53
To be clear I was referring to AA Trilogy and GAA Chronicles.
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Raka_Putra
04/06/2024
01:27 PM
#54
2.5/10

I really like Lamiroir's design but that's about it.
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Hbthebattle
04/06/2024
01:32 PM
#55
KamikazePotato posted...
The reason the series keeps going is because new people keep discovering the games they actually love: AA1 through 3.
Let's not mince words there: people like AA1 and 3 but there's sort of a runt in the middle there. AA2, as we've discussed extensively in this topic series, consists of two really shitty cases, and another mediocre one. 2-4 is good and no one disputes that but one case does not make a good game. This is why AA2 is ultimately a bottom 3 game in the series.

Also I don't know what evidence you have for Apollo Trilogy bombing because if your only metric is the Steam review count corresponding to game sales than that's not actually a viable source.
:)
Leonhart4
04/06/2024
01:32 PM
#56
Yeah, I feel like it's hard to argue that AJ didn't almost kill the series. Takumi leaving the series probably didn't help either, but AJ having its own fanbase doesn't mean it didn't do a lot of damage to the rest of the fanbase. The backlash against the game was vocal.

There's a reason DD barely acknowledged AJ. You couldn't get rid of Apollo entirely, but they introduced a new character to take away from his screentime, and Trucy was almost sidelined entirely. It was only after the success of DD that they felt comfortable drawing from AJ in SoJ.
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Leonhart4
04/06/2024
01:34 PM
#57
Also, people might have problems with JFA, but 2-4 being as beloved as it is still makes people group it together with the other two, even if it's the clear weak link.

If AJ had nailed the dismount with 4-4, it might enjoy that same sort of "yeah it's flawed but that last case is so good," but...yeah.
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LightningStrikes
04/06/2024
01:37 PM
#58
Justice for All getting the Return of the Jedi/Temple of Doom treatment mainly via association with the rest of the original trilogy.

Funnily enough IIRC when they started work on JFA they only had 2-4, I think they even envisioned it as just the one case, and the first three were grafted on later which shows. It would have been a better game!
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MacArrowny
04/06/2024
01:39 PM
#59
LightningStrikes posted...
Justice for All getting the Return of the Jedi/Temple of Doom treatment mainly via association with the rest of the original trilogy.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
All the stars in the sky are waiting for you.
NFUN
04/06/2024
01:39 PM
#60
LightningStrikes posted...
JFA also has the rest of the game!

I dont agree with that about Apollo Justice. The series retooled itself pretty effectively while keeping what works and eventually paid it all off.
The game retooled the series and then they immediately ignored all of the changes it'd made to go back to business as usual. The greatest crime of AJ is that it dramatically changed Phoenix's character, but didn't have the quality or prestige to make it stick, so it was entirely an exercise in pointlessness
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NFUN
04/06/2024
01:40 PM
#61
KamikazePotato posted...
Similar example would be Mega Man Battle Network 4.
and they're both composed by Horiyama!
List the ominous stern whisper from the delphic cave within:
They enslave their children's children who make compromise with sin
KamikazePotato
04/06/2024
01:43 PM
#62
To be clear I like JFA less than most people here I think. I threw it a vote in the 'worst AA game' poll that was held recently.

But it's simply not comparable to AJ. JFA just had cases that, while sub-par, didn't do damage to the series canon. They were just bad cases. AJ's fuckups required a soft reboot to fix, and some of the damage is still there.
It's Reyn Time.
Bitto
04/06/2024
01:43 PM
#63
JFA didn't really get backlash because T&T released the same year. Also...this is a bit inside baseball, but most PW1 fans knew that there were 2 games coming, so even if JFA was disappointing, the 3rd game would be coming out. I remember there was a fan translation of 3-1 that came out between PW1 and JFA that people generally liked too.

Also, part of the thing about AJ is that it wasn't just bad cases, they were actively troll-y cases to the fanbase. We just talked about 4-2 being mean-spirited to PW fans and the treatment of Phoenix isn't great either. JFA didn't really troll the fans.
I can't live forever
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Paratroopa1
04/06/2024
02:00 PM
#64
It's weird watching everyone just be confidently wrong about JFA being a bad game. I don't get it
Leonhart4
04/06/2024
02:01 PM
#65
Paratroopa1 posted...
It's weird watching everyone just be confidently wrong about JFA being a bad game. I don't get it

Hey, I'm with you! I just know people are split on it.
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KamikazePotato
04/06/2024
02:02 PM
#66
Paratroopa1 posted...
It's weird watching everyone just be confidently wrong about JFA being a bad game. I don't get it
It's the game currently rounding out the bottom two ratings! Although that probably changes after today, lol
It's Reyn Time.
Paratroopa1
04/06/2024
02:06 PM
#67
Yeah but 2-1 is a short tutorial case so who cares (and it's just not worse than 1-1 sorry). 2-4 is like basically half the entire game and it's utterly magnificient and 2-2 is a fine case as well so even if you hate the circus most of the game is great or fine

people have a habit of saying "it sucks except for 2-4" like bitch 2-4 IS THE GAME
Lopen
04/06/2024
02:10 PM
#68
Hbthebattle posted...
but one case does not make a good game

Hard disagree. The series has always been about the highs.

I think what helps it a lot is the two bad cases aren't back to back too.
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KamikazePotato
04/06/2024
02:13 PM
#69
I'm actually not a fan of 2-2 at all, so JFA was a real struggle for me to get through. I probably would've dropped the series if 2-4 wasn't incredible.
It's Reyn Time.
Lopen
04/06/2024
02:13 PM
#70
JFA might be my favorite game in the series but that's probably because if we could scale things properly I'd probably put 2-4 at like a 15 and 1-5 at second place at 10.
No problem!
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LightningStrikes
04/06/2024
02:14 PM
#71
2-4 should have been the game and was going to be the game but they added a bunch of trash to it! Which kind of gets to the other thing about Justice for All - its the only game in the series which doesnt have a coherent narrative or theme, its just cases awkwardly stapled together. Which makes sense given the development history.

To be clear, Justice for All is like, a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. But its the weakest Ace Attorney game (with the caveat that I havent played PLvPWAA).
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Lopen
04/06/2024
02:15 PM
#72
KamikazePotato posted...
I'm actually not a fan of 2-2 at all, so JFA was a real struggle for me to get through. I probably would've dropped the series if 2-4 wasn't incredible.

I mean I don't love 2-2 but it's playable for me

If Apollo Justice went 4-3 -> 4-1 -> 4-2 I probably would have got through it
No problem!
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Bitto
04/06/2024
02:19 PM
#73
LightningStrikes posted...
Which kind of gets to the other thing about Justice for All - its the only game in the series which doesnt have a coherent narrative or theme, its just cases awkwardly stapled together. Which makes sense given the development history.


I mentioned this in another thread, but I love this about JFA! It allows for some flexibility and creativity. 2-4 is a neat finale case in that it technically doesn't have a grand overarching plot to it and I think that helps it, not hurts it.

I like the overarching plots too, but I also like...just interesting cases and murders that aren't necessarily tied to each other.
I can't live forever
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skulltrumpets
04/06/2024
02:39 PM
#74
Paratroopa1 posted...
Yeah but 2-1 is a short tutorial case so who cares (and it's just not worse than 1-1 sorry). 2-4 is like basically half the entire game and it's utterly magnificient and 2-2 is a fine case as well so even if you hate the circus most of the game is great or fine

people have a habit of saying "it sucks except for 2-4" like bitch 2-4 IS THE GAME
Though I'm also probably being one of the biggest AJ defenders in here, this is a great stance on JFA. I'm honestly shocked so many people dislike 2-2 so much. I have my issues with it, definitely, but it isn't bad enough for a compelling argument over why JFA would be a bad game.
Haste_2
04/06/2024
03:44 PM
#75
5.5/10

Apollo Justice is my least favorite Ace Attorney, but it's not by a huge margin like it is for most other people.
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kevwaffles
04/06/2024
03:50 PM
#76
MacArrowny posted...
This makes no sense whatsoever.
It makes perfect sense, just not in the way intended.

RotJ, ToD, and JFA are all examples of what were the worst entry at the time until a fourth one came around to show you what bad actually looked like.
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Leonhart4
04/06/2024
04:54 PM
#77
Yeah, most people would group the OTs of those series together and say "wow what an awesome series that was" even if there was an entry they didn't like as much as the others.
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SpoinkRulezz
04/06/2024
07:31 PM
#78
3/10

It's not good. But at least I found it less boring than 4-2 upon replaying the game recently.

AJ:AA is really a weird entry in the series. 4-2 and 4-3 are a low point and 4-1 and 4-4 are not good enough to carry them (like 2-4 did for JfA, and I also liked 2-2 myself).
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Board 8 » Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Serenade (4-3)
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