zzzz it's a fuckin speechIt's an annually important speech that gets a lot of press. I don't give a shit about it either but it IS noteworthy.
it's our job to be perpetually unsatisfied or else people would settle for less even more than they already doNah at this point it's just the kind of enemy-of-good-because-not-perfect disatisfaction that is indistinguishable from bad faith arguments by GOP plants. I have no tolerance for it anymore.
I'd be willing to settle for a combo of 1) not genocidal and 2) I get to live long enough to see 2030. Sorry if that's too picky for y'all1. You're not going to get a president that supports Palestine within the next 30 years. Disagreeing with what's happening is good. Making it a point of contention in your voting is ill-advised when the Republican alternative would do far worse than Biden's policies toward the situation.
the Republican alternative would do far worse
he party that doesn't want to murder trans people?
I think we're kinda out of room for anybody to do "far worse." Legitimately, what can he do that Biden and the Dems aren't doing?
You say this like the Dems are trustworthy and dedicated allies. They aren't trying to kill us, but they're not doing a whole lot to stop the other guys, either. It can be worse on this front, but its already pretty shit, on their watch.Okay. And? This isn't about whether or not Democrats are perfect allies. They don't need to be perfect, or even great, to be infinitely better than the alternative. That's the problem I have here. Every time that fact gets pointed out, the response is "Well yeah, but-" and there shouldn't be a but. The stakes are too high. This is a choice between slow recovery/progress and a hellscape. Everyone opposing Trump should be throwing almost full support against Not Trump, and they aren't.
the liberals are into it, the leftists refuse to be placated
It's another in the category of, the other sides worse but how much are we gonna put up with?
I mean this with all due respect, regardless of your beliefs and who is giving it, if a SotU address is enough to placate you, you are not a serious person with any actual concerns.You know who watches stuff like the State of the Union? Older people - the largest voting block. It being a good speech is, in fact, a good thing. It moves the needle by just that little bit more. In close elections, that can mean the difference between victory and defeat. Especially when there's rhetoric floating around about Biden's inability to speak. This helps counter that.
You know who watches stuff like the State of the Union? Older people - the largest voting block. It being a good speech is, in fact, a good thing. It moves the needle by just that little bit more. In close elections, that can mean the difference between victory and defeat. Especially when there's rhetoric floating around about Biden's inability to speak. This helps counter that.
That just proves my point, doesn't it? Old retirees who vote consistently are basically the least serious group with the lowest amount of problems. Even if Social Security gets gutted, for example, even the most hardcore psycho has said people getting their SS would continue to get it.We're having two different conversations here. You're arguing about the credibility of voters swayed by a state of the union, which honestly, I don't care about. Even if you're right, it doesn't matter. Non-credible voters vote in significantly larger blocks than informed voters. I'm just glad for good optics.
"The GOP Doesnt Want to Punish Trans PeopleIt Wants to Eradicate Them"
https://apnews.com/article/lgbtq-transgender-republicans-trump-christian-conservatives-election-83becc009d8123d96a75c2e4940ab339
If you want to purity test yourself into tacitly supporting that , I guess I can't stop you.
Do you really think I need to be told what half the country thinks of meBased on how often you post about not wanting to vote for Democrats, and how it would be great if 3rd party was an option, and how hard it is to 'put up with' being on this side? You tell me. If I were in your position, voting against the GOP would be the easiest choice in the world, regardless of reservations about...almost anything, really. And even if I was extremely dissatisfied with what I consider to be a necessary evil, I certainly wouldn't be trying to convince other people not to vote Democrat.
But you don't get to tell me to like himOf course.
and you damn sure don't get to call me a trump supporter...I might even hold my nose and vote for BidenIf you don't vote for Biden over Trump, then yeah, I do. Or at least someone not willing to actively oppose Trump. Personal feelings don't matter anywhere near as much as how a person votes. This topic constantly clowns on people who act horrified about Trump but end up not voting against him anyway - why should the leftist equivalent be considered any different?
slower, nicer descent into a hellscape.The GOP is causing that descent. Like, if anything bad policy-wise ever happens in the US, 95% of the time it's because a Republican got elected somewhere. Democrats could be trying harder but I also think you severely underestimate how difficult it is to make progress in general. Destroying things is much easier than building them, and the GOP right now is hellbent on destroying basically everything for some reason.
i vote straight ticket dem every election, vote in every primary, i do what i can when i can to keep republicans out of office.Cool, that's what I care about, thanks for doing your part.
My issue is health care reform so yeah that's painful.I do think the Democrats would be more likely to try and reform health care in a way that matters these days. They tried the meet-both-sides thing with Obamacare and have mentioned how pissed they were that the GOP was never satisfied with concessions. Maybe I'm wrong and they wouldn't do anything even with a supermajority, but yeah.
I do think the Democrats would be more likely to try and reform health care in a way that matters these days. They tried the meet-both-sides thing with Obamacare and have mentioned how pissed they were that the GOP was never satisfied with concessions. Maybe I'm wrong and they wouldn't do anything even with a supermajority, but yeah.
The main issue is votes. Nothing can be done without enough votes in the Senate and House.
They suck at trying but there's at least one news article every week with the copy-paste headline of: "Democrats propose good change, Republicans shoot it down". Shit's like clockwork. There's no point in proposing a bill to reform health care right now when there's a 0% chance it would pass.The leopard ate my face party doing its usual thing lol
Agreed on awful messaging though. They should be laying the groundwork for it at least and they're doing a bad job of that.
my (biggest) issue with the dems is that they seem dead set on giving up nearly as soon as they meet right-wing resistance on anything
my (biggest) issue with the dems is that they seem dead set on giving up nearly as soon as they meet right-wing resistance on anythingI think it depends. You can't Try Harder when it comes to votes. That's a resistance that is insurmountable until they win more elections. Unless you just ignore the laws like some GOP politicians have successfully done in certain places, but Democratic voters (and the media) probably wouldn't let Dem politicians get away with that.
I certainly wouldn't be trying to convince other people not to vote Democrat.
man it's a good thing I have never done that, I haven't even convinced myself of that yet!
Personal feelings don't matter anywhere near as much as how a person votes.
Or at least someone not willing to actively oppose Trump
Like, if anything bad policy-wise ever happens in the US, 95% of the time it's because a Republican got elected somewhere.
They have sucked at trying tbh. Like. A complete failure. Their messaging sucks. It is horrific tbh.
But they are my only hope. Sad times lol
both third party and Biden are pretty crummy choices. I can't super fault anybody for choosing one or the other, but you'd better voteI do, and I think this is something we're just going to fundamentally disagree on. I don't consider third-party votes to be a valid option for anyone legitimately concerned with a potential Trump presidency. If everyone who 3rd-party protest-voted against Hillary Clinton just...voted for Clinton, Trump might have been dead in the water eight years ago. For this particular topic, what you consider just expressing displeasure against the Dems, is to me harmful rhetoric that some more neutral onlookers will be tempted to follow. Maybe not on B8 (although we already have 3rd-party voters here...), but in other places you have discussions.
I have, since then, seen a Biden administration. I've seen all the stuff he ran against happen anyway, without much effort to change it. It's better than the alternative. It's not nearly good enough. You're talking about "perfect as the enemy of good" but from where I'm standing, I'm begging this country to give me "halfway decent" and not seeing any signs of getting it.And the biggest reason for this is because of the GOP. The GOP blocks progress. The GOP tears things down. None of that will change unless Democrats win more elections and get a supermajority. They could be doing much better, but you are partially conflating issues caused the enemy as being the Democrats' fault. Real question: what can actually be done in states where GOP votes outnumber left-wing voters 2 to 1? What can actually be done to affect national policy until Democrats have a decisive lead in the Senate and House? I don't think the answers to those questions are very satisfying.
anyway I'll try to be a bit more pleasant in the future about the utter despair I feel about this country and the terror I feel about the next ten years, gotta send them positive thoughts and prayers to the NICE ethnic cleansing guy! he's gonna actually do something about fascism any day nowI'm not trying to minimize your pain, but I still have to disagree with your (potential) voting patterns and the way you handle rhetoric. I consider those to be extremely important things - they're basically the only way that we, the little guy, can actively influence the outcome of elections. Besides donating to various causes.
my vote doesn't mean shit. i do not live in a swing state. there are people you could make this argument against but I am not one of them.I mean...sure, I guess.
There's a difference between "man this election sucks" and "I'm not voting and you shouldn't either." It seems lost on a lot of liberals.That's the thing. It IS lost on tons of liberals. That's why I push back when people say it, and why it's currently the most successful tactic that the GOPs uses to disincentive voters. Most of the people who listen to 'man this election sucks' and stop voting are the people who lean left.
like California? and NYC? and Chicago? and all the purple states? and Biden's foreign policy?Foreign policy - I'm assuming your talking about Israel/Palestine, and yeah that's very bad but the entire government is in on that shitshow. That doesn't make it better but I'm also not going to allocate emotional bandwidth to something that can't possibly be changed.
Maybe not on B8 (although we already have 3rd-party voters here...), but in other places you have discussions.
Real question: what can actually be done in states where GOP votes outnumber left-wing voters 2 to 1?
Over the past few years I've just grown very tired with the way that the left handles optics and rhetoric as a whole. It feels like watching them constantly shoot themselves in the foot.
I think our conflict boils down to you being much more okay with the status quo they represent than I am. They had their chance to show me they are the force that will stop Trump. I'm not even that convinced they WANT to.If the Dems take a supermajority and do the bare minimum with it despite supposedly learning their lesson from the Obama administration, I will freely admit I'm wrong (and get super depressed again wooo). I just also feel like there's a ton of near-insurmountable hurdles that don't get acknowledged. Media being one of the biggest ones. The Dems suck at messaging, but it would be easier if the vast majority of news outlets weren't right-leaning.
Most of the people who listen to 'man this election sucks' and stop voting are the people who lean left.
the entire government is in on that s***show
For the other stuff you're going to have to be more specific.
I'm also not going to allocate emotional bandwidth to something that can't possibly be changed.
Chicago and NYC are very big fans of the police, including, as I recall, in the middle of the George Floyd protests. NYC, specifically, just called in the national guard so they can have ARMED searched of "random" commuters on the subway. Lots of states are pushing anti-trans legislation through, not just the deep red ones. KOSA has Biden's backing, and a lot of the Dems in Congress. California has had a couple things, but the only one I can remember three hours after my bedtime is a local thing from a red area, so I'll temporarily retract that.Those are fair points, thank you for giving examples.
I find this difficult for genocide-level events. This is not intended as a value judgment, part of me thinks you're the smarter one on this point.I meant that we can't do anything. Protesting genocide is objectively a good thing to do, but if the entire government is pretty much okay with it, I unfortunately don't think protests will make an actionable difference. Especially not during an election year when Dems are scared of putting off swing voters. The only way to fix that is just elect a bunch of people who aren't okay with it, and that will take...a while.
The only way to fix that is just elect a bunch of people who aren't okay with it, and that will take...a while.
I'm not sure what's "better" between that and your more pragmatic angle.
It'd be easier if I saw a bigger gap between D and R, and I'm mad that there's not.Yeah I think that's something we can super agree on.