Lopen posted...
I think the idea was good it's just... poor timing. You need some credibility when you're doing that otherwise you're not looking like you're trying to draw a shot you look like desperate scum trying to draw counterclaims.
Also the hider claim was completely pointless and only served to undermine you later.
Theres no universe where I ever fake claim doc as vanilla. Ever. Zero. I am not some mafia god.
Chris is the only one who maybe I wouldnt be adamantly against doing that, and even then I would be annoyed
masterplum posted...
Theres no universe where I ever fake claim doc as vanilla. Ever. Zero. I am not some mafia god.
Chris is the only one who maybe I wouldnt be adamantly against doing that, and even then I would be annoyed
Claiming doctor as vanilla is not about saving your hide because you're just that valuable. That's not what Corrik was doing.
It's about buying yourself one day and hoping scum wastes their shot on you so you don't waste a lynch day. It requires a small amount of faith in your real doctor to not counterclaim but there are situations where you'd want to do it. You also want to be damn sure the lynch that is in your place is scum otherwise you're not helping anything because a mislynch is a mislynch-- which, we had a really good lynch lined up that day in red.
The problem is Corrik was a bit too buried and had already burnt up his credibility with a different fakeclaim, so it didn't have any chance of serving the intended purpose and was mostly just risky over everything else. I think in a different situation, with different timing, and with a different approach, it could have been a strong move though. I think he really needed to aim for a lower hanging fruit in red instead of trying to build a case from scratch. Play the "listen, we all thought Red was scum yesterday, let's just give Lea one more day" approach rather than FIREBOLT IS SCUM LOOK AT THESE 9000 POSTS I'M GOING TO QUOTE approach. Firebolt being the real doctor really drives home the "only do it if you're damn sure the lynch is in your place is scum" point.
If you are pushed to claim and then throw out an obvious fakeclaim, you arent getting any heat off of yourself. Especially when your fakeclaim is doctor and you have spent the entire day trying to bait counterclaims for no reason.
The entire play was counterproductive. And your hider claim wasn't going to draw any scum shots to you, we already knew you were bullshitting when you claimed to target blade.
I get it
I think you should have just like, tried harder to sell town on red and maybe your play would have been a good one. Like it only ever makes any sense if you're sure the guy you're trying to lynch is scum-- and red was the guy you thought was scum coming into the day and could have feasibly bought you a day if you built the case well, which is all you needed. The point should never have been to claim doctor and use that as the only way to buy yourself a day-- the point should have been to claim doctor, get a guy you thought was scum lynched mostly on the strength of the argument, not "don't lynch me I'm doctor," and then draw a shot.
Like trying to say fire bolt is scum, when you know you're not the real doctor and half of your case was him turning on you in an opportunistic way (which would make perfect sense for the real doctor to do, go figure!), shows you lost sight of what your purpose was and were just scrambling to not die by the time you went too deep into your gambit.
But I do think the play had some potential at least.
It was hard to do the re-read and not think fire_bolt was scum lol. He looked awful. Haha.
Corrik7 posted...
It was hard to do the re-read and not think fire_bolt was scum lol. He looked awful. Haha.
he looked like the fucking doctor on the day you got lynched.
I thought your case on fire_bolt was good but you need to realize you're arguing from a point of negative credibility at that point, so you need to have some humility and realize you can't sell the town on anything that they're not already believing. Starting on firebolt fresh was just never going to work.
Red was an attainable lynch because he had majority lynch yesterday and had done nothing to make himself look better.
Also it was just your opinion rather than the opinions of the many which red had-- which, again, speaks to the inherent selfishness which is bad play. Like you're basically saying "well I had this read when I reread the game and it has to be right" when no one else in the game was really having that read. You need to accept maybe you're wrong there and even if bolt is just vanilla town you're doing more damage by not just falling on the sword if you lynch him.
btw one anoher thing. Town Poisoner that gives notification should not be the case when the board standard is for poisoner to not give notification.
It basically made panth a confirmable role(with a confirmable in mayor already in place).
That was probably my biggest balance issue with the setup. There was no way anyone should think panth is scum.
Like basically the thing to realize is that no matter how much "evidence" you find, no matter how much gut your read has, if you've got like 5 or 6 players thinking one guy is scum, with some of them making decently reasonable arguments, they're probably more likely to be scum than the dude you had a scum lean on that you just came across in a reread.
It's not just about what you see
It's about what the players at large see. You go with red because others were seeing the case on red because you're in a bad spot and if your lynch is wrong you're causing a ton of damage with a fake doctor claim-- basically adding one more wrong lynch to the pile.
That's why you're not a team player. Not stupid ass claims. That. Gotta have the glory of the lynching the scum you catch rather than reading the arguments of others and going with them in the name of advancing the day.
If I had built a case using day 1 stuff on red, I woulda got manhandled and picked apart with a weak case.
Thing about scumteams digging in though is they have to fake it. It becomes more risky. Like yes you can create an argument on anyone to some extent, but even if it's good say they claim then what. Can you reliably flow from town member to town member to pressure without the arguments you're making seem a bit contrived? Can you avoid your scumbuddies that probably have as good or better cases on them?
Thing about scumteams digging in though is they have to fake it. It becomes more risky. Like yes you can create an argument on anyone to some extent, but even if it's good say they claim then what. Can you reliably flow from town member to town member to pressure without the arguments you're making seem a bit contrived? Can you avoid your scumbuddies that probably have as good or better cases on them?
Like honestly I think if scumteams did that games would be easier to win. Not just because the scum lynch party would slip in fabricating a suspicion, but also because just generating pressure on people who are suspicious and seeing how they react (and how the people pressuring them react) is how the game is played well. You might get some power claims out there but you're also going to confirm a lot of town to people.
You gain the benefit of more numbers. That strong voice day 1 becomes an even stronger voice day 2.