Expedition 33 ending poll and discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

voldothegr8 posted...

The only people who get the shit stick in Verso's ending are a bunch of fictional characters, destroyed by their creators. As pointed out Renoir probably would have eventually destroyed it anyway after it took Maelle.

Even if you don't dismiss the painted folk as fictional and believe them to be sentient, the Verso ending is still debatably less cruel. As has been brought up, The end points are the same. Renoir WILL destroy the painting once Maelle dies, and before that, the inhabitants of the painting have been reduced to her play things, all of their agency stripped from them.

Tyranthraxus posted...

I never got this impression. He's not trying to control anything. He just wants is family to stop shooting heroin.

We have differing opinions on that, then. Yes, he does want that, but he also comes off as the controlling type to me. Not when it comes to Alicia for some reason, though.

Aline is a shitty mom but not because of being controlling. She's a shitty mom because she's addicted to heroin, refuses to seek help, and doesn't talk to anyone when she's sober.

Yes, there's that. But if you look into the background of the game, you find a mother who pushed her two older children into painting, mostly against their will.

She wanted to mold them into copies of herself. (Painted) Verso hints at this with his interaction with Maelle about how he wanted to be a pianist, but his mother wanted him to paint. Clea kind of just did it and found that she was good at it, but never really found much joy in it. Almost going through to motions. And Alicia? She was just a forgotten child by her mother. She had no talent to paint, so her mother couldn't care less about her. She was evidently a halfway decent Writer, though?

If you search the Dessendre children's rooms, it gives a lot of hints into just who they are. And reading some of the files in the game further paints a picture of what kind of person Aline is.

Xenogears15 posted...

We have differing opinions on that, then. Yes, he does want that, but he also comes off as the controlling type to me. Not when it comes to Alicia for some reason, though.

I'm actually curious about this. What does he do that gives you that impression? Painted Renoir comes off that way a bit moreso, but that could very well be an extension of Aline, who we know was definitely more controlling.

Touching on Aline is honestly what makes the Maelle ending seem more cruel, to me, too. Verso didn't really want to paint, but his mother made him. Come Maelle's ending, while Verso DID want to be a pianist, Painted Verso clearly did not want to just live on and do that anymore, and yet Maelle makes him do it. Maelle's ending shows her taking on that controlling nature like Aline had, where she basically forces people into what she thinks is the "best' life for them (such as bringing certain dead characters back to life,) but in doing so, she's removing literally all growth and agency from them, and, one can assume, altering their memories, as well, which means they aren't even the same people anymore.

Verso 100% did not deserve to get his way. Especially after misleading and betraying the party on multiple occasions. Had no sympathy for him in the Maelle ending.

HashtagSEP posted...

I'm actually curious about this. What does he do that gives you that impression? Painted Renoir comes off that way a bit moreso, but that could very well be an extension of Aline, who we know was definitely more controlling.

Maybe I'm being influenced by Painted Renoir too, but...it's hard to describe. It's also his actions while as the Curator where, yes, he more guides the party rather than controls them.

Again, it's hard to describe. Just a vibe I get.

Touching on Aline is honestly what makes the Maelle ending seem more cruel, to me, too. Verso didn't really want to paint, but his mother made him. Come Maelle's ending, while Verso DID want to be a pianist, Painted Verso clearly did not want to just live on and do that anymore, and yet Maelle makes him do it. Maelle's ending shows her taking on that controlling nature like Aline had, where she basically forces people into what she thinks is the "best' life for them (such as bringing certain dead characters back to life,) but in doing so, she's removing literally all growth and agency from them, and, one can assume, altering their memories, as well, which means they aren't even the same people anymore.

Yes.

Xenogears15 posted...

Maybe I'm being influenced by Painted Renoir too, but...it's hard to describe. It's also his actions while as the Curator where, yes, he more guides the party rather than controls them.

Again, it's hard to describe. Just a vibe I get.

I absolutely get it, to be fair. I initially agreed, but then when it became a debate, I thought about it, and I realized everything that made me think that way was from Painted Renoir, so I was curious how you saw it.

Youre not supposed to feel great about either but I felt Verso was the proper more mature choice.

chris1001_the_sequel posted...

the inhabitants of the painting have been reduced to her play things, all of their agency stripped from them.

I felt like only Verso had become her plaything. Everyone else seemed normal.

Though I may be misremembering, but I felt one point of the endings was that they were fucking over the other one individually -- removing Verso's free will / forcing Maelle into a life she hates -- while everyone else continued on as they normally would.

Rharyx211 posted...

I felt like only Verso had become her plaything. Everyone else seemed normal.

Either way it's fucking disgusting and that alone is why I say the Verso ending, as sad as it is to see Esquie and Monoco fade away embracing Painted Verso, is the better one.

Rharyx211 posted...

I felt like only Verso had become her plaything. Everyone else seemed normal.

Though I may be misremembering, but I felt one point of the endings was that they were fucking over the other one individually -- removing Verso's free will / forcing Maelle into a life she hates -- while everyone else continued on as they normally would.

I can't say with absoli certainty but you would never catch me willingly sitting down and smiling for a concert with an act consisting of a guy who literally just tried to kill me and everyone I know. I would super extra not be there if that guy also deliberately did nothing while I was killed by his psycho father.

My own conclusion here is that Maelle has wiped the canvas completely and remade it multiple times except for verso which is why he's much older in the ending. In doing so, she has rewrote everyone's memories or is forcing them to behave that way.

Maelle's ending is literally the Twilight Zone episode It's a good life.

It might be my imagination but in the Maelle ending right at the end both Lune and Sciel seem to flash a look of subtle despair for just a second.

Lune and Sciel did have peculiar expressions, though I wouldn't call them subtle despair.

They felt like a cross between a general "get on with it already" face when you're waiting longer than expected for someone to do something, and a hint of knowing what is happening in regards to Verso.

The framing of the scene does make it seem like Maelle views them all as nothing but playthings in her fantasy world, but I don't think she actually did much to alter anyone besides Verso. And Verso being the only one aware of it tracks due to how special he is in that world anyway.

Verso is doomed in every version of events, sadly.

Rharyx211 posted...

The framing of the scene does make it seem like Maelle views them all as nothing but playthings in her fantasy world, but I don't think she actually did much to alter anyone besides Verso. And Verso being the only one aware of it tracks due to how special he is in that world anyway.

The key that shows you she altered everybody else is that only Verso has aged, while nobody else has. That means she rewrote them ATLEAST once, since we know people in the painted world age normally otherwise.

EDIT: Which, thinking about it, actually shows a hint of cruelty, since you'd assume she could also rewrite Verso if she wanted, and yet she's purposely making him live through everything she does.

HashtagSEP posted...

EDIT: Which, thinking about it, actually shows a hint of cruelty, since you'd assume she could also rewrite Verso if she wanted, and yet she's purposely making him live through everything she does.

Yeah, that ties back in to how Painters are selfish, mentioned a couple times before. Both endings involve Maelle and Verso being cruel to the other in some way and asserting their decisions upon them.

I don't think it's cruel to force Alicia out of a fantasy life that will kill her.

Is it cruel to have an intervention for an alcoholic family member?

Verso's cruelty, if the term is applicable, is to the other beings of the canvas.

From Alicia/Maelle's pov, it's cruel, yeah.

Comparing it to something like alcoholism isn't really 1:1, though.

But yeah, it's cruel to the people of the canvas as well.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

I don't think it's cruel to force Alicia out of a fantasy life that will kill her.

Is it cruel to have an intervention for an alcoholic family member?

Verso's cruelty, if the term is applicable, is to the other beings of the canvas.

This is my stance. And Maelle is also cruel, since we know she repaints them atleast once and views them more as objects. They're just... Less aware of it, in the Maelle ending, I guess.