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Controversy reigns at the Olympics after boxer wins in 46 seconds.

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Current Events » Controversy reigns at the Olympics after boxer wins in 46 seconds.
Italian boxer Angela Carini broke down in tears after she abandoned her bout against Algerian Imane Khelif after 46 seconds in a fight that sparked huge controversy at the Olympics.

Khelif is one of two boxers permitted to fight at the Olympics despite being disqualified from the womens world championships last year for failing testosterone and gender eligibility tests.

In highly-charged scenes at the North Paris Arena, Carini revealed afterwards that she had pulled out after after being hit harder than she had ever been hit before. A first punch dislodged her chinstrap and a second smashed against her chin and bloodied her shorts.

I am heartbroken, said Carini. I went to the ring to honour my father. I was told a lot of times that I was a warrior but I preferred to stop for my health. I have never felt a punch like this.

The 25-year-old, from Naples, added: I got into the ring to fight. I didnt give up, but one punch hurt too much and so I said enough. Im going out with my head held high.

After the second punch, after years of experience, I felt a strong pain in the nose. I said enough, because I didnt want. I couldnt finish the fight after the punch to the nose. So it was better to put an end to it.

I am in pieces because I am a fighter, they taught me to be a warrior. I have always tried to behave with honour, I have always represented my country with loyalty. This time I didnt manage to because I couldnt fight any more. Regardless of the person I had in front, of me, which doesnt interest me, regardless of all the row, I just wanted to win. I wanted to face the person that I had in front of me and to fight.

Asked if it would have been better to pull out beforehand, Carini said: I am not one that gives in easily. No, even if they had said that we wouldnt fight, I would never have accepted it. I have a warriors mentality. This time I didnt manage. I felt too much pain on my nose. I said enough.

Its not a defeat for me for me if you go in the ring you have already won, regardless of everything else. Im not here to judge. Its not up to me to say if its fair or not fair. I just did my job. I managed to leave with my head held high. Im a mature woman; when I feel I cannot continue, its not giving in, its having the dignity to say enough. I was convinced I would win, I was concentrated, serene. But these punches to the nose hurt, I said enough.

Khelif stopped briefly to speak to the BBC: I am here for gold, the Algerian said. I will fight anybody, I will fight them all.

Reem Alsalem, the UN Special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, expressed her concern about what had happened. Angela Carini rightly followed her instincts and prioritized her physical safety, but she and other female athletes should not have been exposed to this physical and psychological violence based on their sex, she tweeted.

Giorgia Meloni, the Italian prime minister, weighed in, saying: I think that athletes who have male genetic characteristics should not be admitted to womens competitions. And not because you want to discriminate against someone, but to protect the right of female athletes to be able to compete on equal terms.

I was emotional yesterday when she wrote I will fight because the dedication, the head, the character, surely also play a role in these things. But then it also matters to be able to compete on equal grounds and from my point of view it was not an even contest.

Before the fight the International Olympic Committees had come under fire for permitting both Khelif and Lin Yuting of Chinese Taipei to compete in the womens category at these Games. Lin is due to face Uzbekistans Sitora Turdibekova in a featherweight bout in Paris on Friday.

Last year both fighters were disqualified from the 2023 womens world champion ships, with International Amateur Boxing president Umar Kremlev saying that DNA tests had proved they had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded. XY is the male chromosome, while XX is the female one.

On Wednesday evening, IBA said that Khelif had initially appealed their decision to the Court of Arbitration for Sport but withdrew the appeal during the process, making the IBA decision legally binding. It said Yu-ting had not challenged its ruling.

The IBA also directly criticised the IOC, which has less stringent rules for the Paris Olympics. The IOCs differing regulations on these matters, in which IBA is not involved, raise serious questions about both competitive fairness and athletes safety, it added. The IOC position is that both Khelif and Lin are women according to their passports and that everyone in the tournament has passed the competitions eligibility rules. However it has not confirmed exactly what those rules are.

On Thursday, the IOCs spokesman Mark Adams was asked about the controversy. I repeat that all the competitors comply with the eligibility rules, he said. But what I would say is that this involves real people. And, by the way, this is not a transgender issue. I should make this absolutely clear.

However concerns have been raised among the boxing and wider sporting community. On Wednesday Australias boxing captain Caitlin Parker expressed her fears that one of her teammates is fighting in the same 66kg weight category as Khelif. I dont agree with them being allowed to compete in sport, especially combat sports, Parker said. It can be incredibly dangerous.

Agence France-Presse reported that Khelif claimed to be the victim of a big conspiracy after being disqualified just before the final at last years world championships.

The Algerian Olympic Committee said on Wednesday it strongly condemns the unethical targeting and maligning of our esteemed athlete, Imane Khelif, with baseless propaganda from certain foreign media outlets adding: Such attacks on her personality and dignity are deeply unfair, especially as she prepares for the pinnacle of her career at the Olympics. The COA has taken all necessary measures to protect our champion.

Full Article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/01/angela-carini-abandons-fight-after-46-seconds-against-imane-khelif

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I feel like it's a bit late to bring this up now, you can't say she's allowed to compete but not allowed to win :/
^ Hey now that's completely unfair!
http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png
Last year both fighters were disqualified from the 2023 womens world champion ships, with International Amateur Boxing president Umar Kremlev saying that DNA tests had proved they had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded. XY is the male chromosome, while XX is the female one.

Am I correct in understanding that the woman who lost in 45s was also transgender?
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Khelif is the alt right's newest boogieman on Twitter, not surprised this topic's about her.
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Still brings up an issue with unfair competition

take the boogeyman shit out of it
Gritty posted...
Still brings up an issue with unfair competition

take the boogeyman shit out of it
How's it unfair competition?
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Orosuke posted...
Last year both fighters were disqualified from the 2023 womens world champion ships, with International Amateur Boxing president Umar Kremlev saying that DNA tests had proved they had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded. XY is the male chromosome, while XX is the female one.

Am I correct in understanding that the woman who lost in 45s was also transgender?

No, if you read the line above it tells you
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UnfairRepresent posted...
XY is the male chromosome, while XX is the female one.
https://imgur.com/gallery/gender-is-moving-target-rRUwJiQ
Not changing this signature until Beyond Good and Evil 2 is in my hand.
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Orosuke posted...
Last year both fighters were disqualified from the 2023 womens world champion ships, with International Amateur Boxing president Umar Kremlev saying that DNA tests had proved they had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded. XY is the male chromosome, while XX is the female one.

Am I correct in understanding that the woman who lost in 45s was also transgender?
No, the winner and a separate fighter were banned.
http://i.minus.com/i5EWBMXTN4ERv.gif
Okay, so this isn't even "mindlessly hating the trans's", because apparently, the Algerian boxer is also biologically female , she just has that one condition where she has XY chromosomes and was born, for all intents and purposes, completely female.

Which means it is 100% "mindlessly hating the trans's", because that's not even the issue here.

Edit: Misread the article and put the wrong nationality, my bad
How do you quit after getting punched twice in a sport you've been training in for years where people routinely get knocked out? It sounds to me like she wasnt ready for the Olympics
Sack to crack, going to town
Is there any proof that Imane Khelif is trans, like actual proof?
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Proto_Spark posted...
Okay, so this isn't even "mindlessly hating the trans's", because apparently, the Iranian boxer is also biologically female , she just has that one condition where she has XY chromosomes and was born, for all intents and purposes, completely female.

Which means it is 100% "mindlessly hating the trans's", because that's not even the issue here.
Iranian?
THRILLHO
Yikes, posts 12 and 13 went away quick
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Proto_Spark posted...
Okay, so this isn't even "mindlessly hating the trans's", because apparently, the Iranian boxer is also biologically female , she just has that one condition where she has XY chromosomes and was born, for all intents and purposes, completely female.

Which means it is 100% "mindlessly hating the trans's", because that's not even the issue here.
I don't know why anyone would mention trans people.

These boxers are not trans.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
DipDipDiver posted...
How do you quit after getting punched twice in a sport you've been training in for years where people routinely get knocked out? It sounds to me like she wasnt ready for the Olympics
People don't get 'routinely knocked out' in women's amateur boxing.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
Im going to assume he meant Algerian and uhslipped.

So the winner isnt trans, but has a disorder where she has an XY chromosome, therefore has higher testosterone levels. Unless testosterone makes someone significantly physically stronger at the levels the winner has it, this comes off to me as the woman who lost simply wasnt at the same level.

Why is there news about this if it isnt just right wing outrage porn?
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ai123 posted...
I don't know why anyone would mention trans people.

These boxers are not trans.
Cretins have been calling Khelif a man on Twitter.

Gritty posted...
Still brings up an issue with unfair competition

take the boogeyman shit out of it
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Imane Khelif has an extremely large genetic advantage because of a disorder. She's not transgender as we understand the term, but she's - biologically - somewhere between a man and a woman. She's always going to hit harder than other women.

Unfair? I dunno.
~ Phoenix Nine ~
~ Victory needs no explanation; defeat allows none. ~
The difference in strength is pretty obvious especially in physical combat sports.
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Proto_Spark posted...
Okay, so this isn't even "mindlessly hating the trans's", because apparently, the Iranian boxer is also biologically female , she just has that one condition where she has XY chromosomes and was born, for all intents and purposes, completely female.

Which means it is 100% "mindlessly hating the trans's", because that's not even the issue here.

Yeah, I was confused reading the article too, because it kind of made it sound like she was both. Looking her up, and she was born a female so... anyone hating on this is just a dumb fucking donkey. I mean, they would be anyway, but still.

Khelif is not transgender, but has a disorder of sex development (DSD), which causes some females to have XY chromosomes and blood testosterone levels typical of a male.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
Gritty posted...
Still brings up an issue with unfair competition

take the boogeyman shit out of it

True, NBA players should be forced to shave off a foot and a half of their height (through body altering medical processes) so that I can play in the NBA and it can be a fair competition.

/s if not obvious.
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Transphobes exposing their whole ass on this one
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Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...
Cretins have been calling Khelif a man on Twitter.
She was assigned female and identifies as female. She's no more trans than anyone else who is definitely not trans.

Ludicrous bad faith from the people trying to confuse DSD and trans.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
"She doesn't conform to a stereotype of 'female' due to a genetic condition. She better not enjoy competition because that would be unfair!"

That is some stupid fucking shit takes there. Combat sports is all about taking advantage of what you can with what your body naturally is. You have longer arms? Welp, your opponent better figure out how to get inside your strikes. You have a natural lower center of gravity? Opponent better figure out how to stop you from taking them down. Are you 6'5 while your opponent is 5'11 but you're the same weight? That kinda sucks for the shorter fighter, but does that mean they can't compete with each other?
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Orosuke posted...
Im going to assume he meant Algerian and uhslipped.

So the winner isnt trans, but has a disorder where she has an XY chromosome, therefore has higher testosterone levels. Unless testosterone makes someone significantly physically stronger at the levels the winner has it, this comes off to me as the woman who lost simply wasnt at the same level.

Why is there news about this if it isnt just right wing outrage porn?

Testosterone is responsible for increased muscle mass and the condition would make a woman with it stronger than a woman without it.

But the reason for the outrage? Read all the articles none of them mention her condition they all just said she failed a gender eligibility test which has one clear meaning.
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Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
"She doesn't conform to a stereotype of 'female' due to a genetic condition. She better not enjoy competition because that would be unfair!"

That is some stupid fucking shit takes there. Combat sports is all about taking advantage of what you can with what your body naturally is. You have longer arms? Welp, your opponent better figure out how to get inside your strikes. You have a natural lower center of gravity? Opponent better figure out how to stop you from taking them down. Are you 6'5 while your opponent is 5'11 but you're the same weight? That kinda sucks for the shorter fighter, but does that mean they can't compete with each other?

I'm afraid she's making 99.99% of women unable to compete at their level despite being peak athletes in their disciplines.

It'd be easier and more fair, objectively, to allow all of them to compete instead of the one or two boxers with DSD.
~ Phoenix Nine ~
~ Victory needs no explanation; defeat allows none. ~
Ilishe posted...
Imane Khelif has an extremely large genetic advantage because of a disorder. She's not transgender as we understand the term, but she's - biologically - somewhere between a man and a woman. She's always going to hit harder than other women.

Unfair? I dunno.
That doesn't matter, it starts with trans woman than it effects cis women who are simply too masculine for genetic reasons.
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Ilishe posted...
I'm afraid she's making 99.99% of women unable to compete at their level despite being peak athletes in their disciplines.

It'd be easier and more fair, objectively, to allow all of them to compete instead of the one or two boxers with DSD.
So the best athlete should be disqualified because it's not fair that they are the best? We have gone past the "men competing in woman's sports" and on to "The strongest cis women make it unfair for everyone else."

And these are the same people who complain about participation trophies. Who don't want the strongest and most skilled to compete in a contest that's suppose to determine the best.
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So she faced a competitor more difficult than she ever imagined... in the Olympics... isn't that kind of the point? I bet the people smoked by Usain Bolt felt the same way.
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Ilishe posted...
I'm afraid she's making 99.99% of women unable to compete at their level despite being peak athletes in their disciplines.

So should all athletes who have genetic benefits be unable to compete for "fairness"? Or do we just pick and choose?

It's confusing. So now the problem is apparently we need someone who was born a woman and is still a woman to compete with men?

(Also according to wikipedia she's lost a few times, being 9-5, so it seems plenty of women can compete at their level)
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bfslick50 posted...
So she faced a competitor more difficult than she ever imagined... in the Olympics... isn't that kind of the point? I bet the people smoked by Usain Bolt felt the same way.
Same with Michael Phelps.
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Post #36 was unavailable or deleted.
ToteAll posted...


We pick and choose, yes. Case by case, as essentially all complex issues shoulod be studied and resolved.


Man we should ban Michael Phelps and Lebron James. Their inherent genetic gifts make it unfair for everyone else to compete against them.
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bfslick50 posted...
So she faced a competitor more difficult than she ever imagined... in the Olympics... isn't that kind of the point? I bet the people smoked by Usain Bolt felt the same way.

Or Katie Ledecky, who just won a competition with a 17 second lead.

It's bullshit.
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FolkenRawr posted...


Or Katie Ledecky, who just won a competition with a 17 second lead.

It's bullshit.

99.99% of women can't compete with that! Must ban.

(Seriously, no woman can compete with Katie Ledecky in swimming freestyle 1500m. She's too good.)
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ToteAll posted...
We pick and choose, yes. Case by case, as essentially all complex issues shoulod be studied and resolved.
It's a very slippery slope. Essentially we are telling people that nature has made them too good to compete in a contest to determine who is the best in their field. Kind of makes this whole thing pointless.
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Post #42 was unavailable or deleted.
ToteAll posted...
That is literally why cis men are not allowed to compete with cis women.
And, related to the topic at hand, this was a competition between two cis women.
So let me to get this straight. Both boxers are biological women, but because one of them has a genetic advantage, people are crying foul? You see, this is why you can't give right wingers any kind of arguing point.
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ToteAll posted...
Sure, let's talk about it.

Which genetic advantages specifically? What's the direct consequence of said genetic advantages?

Michael Phelps' body is literally perfect for swimming, most athletes are not like him.

https://www.scienceabc.com/sports/michael-phelps-height-arms-torso-arm-span-feet-swimming.html

If you wanna argue people with genetic advantages shouldn't be able to compete at all then you might as well just cancel sports.
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bfslick50 posted...
So she faced a competitor more difficult than she ever imagined... in the Olympics... isn't that kind of the point? I bet the people smoked by Usain Bolt felt the same way.
In fairness to her, you don't risk brain injury getting smoked by Usain Bolt.

Whatever your opinion on this, if she thought she was in danger, she did the right thing. The same would be true of any boxer against any opponent: if a competitor is in a risky mismatch, it's better for everyone if they are withdrawn. Including the opponent.

You cannot treat combat sports like you do sports such as swimming, basketball, and sprinting. There's no danger of severe injury or death if you lose by half a length to a Michael Phelps.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
ToteAll posted...
That is literally why cis men are not allowed to compete with cis women.
This topic has nothing to do with cis men competing with cis women. This controversy is about a cis woman who people want banned because she's too strong due to biological reasons. So apparently even women born women who were always women can be "too much of a man" to compete.

That is the slippery slope in action. It was never going to stop at Trans-women and now it effects cis women who are simply "too masculine." Even if we ban trans-women from competing the genie is out of the bag and cis women who are simply too manly will suffer.
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ToteAll posted...
Sure, let's talk about it.

Which genetic advantages specifically? What's the direct consequence of said genetic advantages?

He has an elongated torso, short legs, disproportionately large chest as well as abnormally long arms. He's double jointed and his ankles are more flexible than is even typical for double jointed people. On top of that his hands and feet are large for his height. Additionally he produces roughly half the lactic acid of normal people.

He's a genetic freak who has the perfect swimmers body.

https://www.biography.com/athletes/michael-phelp-perfect-body-swimming
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I saw this trending earlier and just assumed this was a transgender athlete issue, but sounds like it isn't the case?
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winstonthewhite posted...
I saw this trending earlier and just assumed this was a transgender athlete issue, but sounds like it isn't the case?

Correct, the better and stronger athlete won this match.
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winstonthewhite posted...
I saw this trending earlier and just assumed this was a transgender athlete issue, but sounds like it isn't the case?

I'm not sure. I see people saying they are transgender but I also see it pointed out that in her country you can't change your genders. I see people saying that she has Swyers syndrome which would explain the XY thing but I don't know that there has been any actual reporting on that.
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I would say that there is a high chance that many high ranked athletes have some form of genetic advantage that helps them in one way or another.
It can be everything from a slightly faster reaction time to being better at absorbing oxygen to having it easier to gain muscle mass.
So where do we draw the line?
Sorry, your red blood cells are better than 80% of the population, you are banned from the Olympics!
Sorry, you got too high IQ, you are not allowed to compete in chess!
Sorry, you punch too hard, you are not allowed to do boxing!
Sorry, you move too fast on skates, you are not allowed to play ice-hockey!
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Current Events » Controversy reigns at the Olympics after boxer wins in 46 seconds.
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