An army of average Saiyans vs an army of average Viltrumites

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Current Events » An army of average Saiyans vs an army of average Viltrumites
When I say average I mean like your run of the mill Saiyan during the time of Planet Vegeta. So no Super Saiyan or anything like that.

Your Viltrumites would be weaker than Omni Man I think, since I believe hes stated to be one of the upper level warriors in their society
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I don't know how strong an average Viltrumite would be since I'm not knowledgeable about Invincible, but an average Saiyan would probably be on par with, or slightly below, Raditz.
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Considering how dbz characters can just die and come back..
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Viltrumites win probably. They can just chuck the Saiyans into low orbit. Viltrumites can't breathe in space but they can hold their breath way longer than Saiyan's.
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
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Saiyans are definitely stronger than Viltrumites. It took three Viltrumites to destroy an already unstable planet, something a single high class Saiyan can achieve. However, Viltrumites can freely survive in space much longer than Saiyans.

So it'll depend on the specifics.
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That would actually be a pretty fun debate.
Because for Saiyans, you have to take out the obvious outliers like Vegeta to make things even.
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Dragon Ball has been just inconsitant enough with tech to make this up in the air.

On one hand, an average saiyan, if we say its between Raditz and Vegeta at that time, but closer to Raditz, and not having planet killer attacks, well...

Goku as a child took on the Red Ribbon Army. So yeah, a generic Saiyan soldier can handle conventional military might from earth with ease and then some (specifically, Dragon Ball's earth, which has more advanced tech than ours because Red Ribbon is like that. Bazookas and missiles don't seem to phase Goku by any particular level).

However, we also have Super, where a concealed alien weapon, likely the series' equivalent to magitechnology, can grievously injure Goku after he powers down. And this is, well, in Super, when Base Goku is far beyond "run of the mill Saiyan" even in his base form.

So what does it come down to? An interpretation of the rules of technology and such.

Commence your arguments on tech in the Dragon Ball setting. They are sometimes useless. But when they have actual "ki" energy built into them, they can assassinate a "Saiyan God" that has powered down.

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StealThisSheen posted...
Saiyans are definitely stronger than Viltrumites. It took three Viltrumites to destroy an already unstable planet, something a single high class Saiyan can achieve. However, Viltrumites can freely survive in space much longer than Saiyans.

So it'll depend on the specifics.
Saiyans have the edge in energy projection, but the average one loses out to the average Viltrumite on just about every other metric, including strength and speed.

Like the reason it takes them comparatively long is they're doing it by hand while Vegeta can toss an energy blast.

The question is whether it's enough power to overcome their resistance, with the highest ranked Viltrumite durability feat probably being

*MASSIVE ENDING SPOILERS FOR INVINCIBLE*

Mark and the big bad Viltrumite having an underwater wrestling match on the surface of the Sun.
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_____Cait posted...
Considering how dbz characters can just die and come back..

But tbf the absurd longevity of DBZ life is pretty strictly non-saiyan magic.

Namely the Dragon Balls
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StealThisSheen posted...
Saiyans are definitely stronger than Viltrumites. It took three Viltrumites to destroy an already unstable planet, something a single high class Saiyan can achieve. However, Viltrumites can freely survive in space much longer than Saiyans.

So it'll depend on the specifics.
But that's not average vs average. They all work off of the whole what doesn't kill you makes you stronger logic, and the average Viltrumite puts themselves in deathly situation much more than the Saiyans do.
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prob viltrumites
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Also I imagine it depends on if the Saiyans would be willing to exploit the Viltrumite inner ear weakness.
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Average Saiyans aren't that powerful. This goes to Viltrumites.
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Viltrumites unless theres a full moon
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Fighters in Dragonball were already moving too fast for the naked eye to see, and able to blow up the moon with energy attacks. And those are just humans in the Dragon Universe. Goku as a child was beyond normal human perception in terms of speed, and far beyond the normal human in power. And Raditz completely eclipses him.

Omni-Man also isn't Supes levels of invulnerable - he's shown taking damage often enough from other characters, and his speed feats, etc. are nothing special. So your average Viltrumite is, compared to a Saiyan, not very fast... and while they're pretty strong and could deal some damage, it would be nowhere near enough to close the deal.

Saiyans stomp, and they stomp hard. The average Saiyan outclasses the top Viltrumite in terms of both speed and power. The Viltrumites may be a threat in Invincible, but most characters in Invincible aren't anything special. Viltrumites are, for example, FAR weaker than the Kryptonians they emulate.

Saiyans don't even need to bring Oozaru into the equation for the win.
There's a time and place for everything... but not now.
legendarylemur posted...
But that's not average vs average. They all work off of the whole what doesn't kill you makes you stronger logic, and the average Viltrumite puts themselves in deathly situation much more than the Saiyans do.

Well, this is fair. I guess the issue is that DB showcases more powerful Saiyans more than Invincible showcases particularly strong Viltrumites, so it's hard to judge what the average Saiyan would be. I feel like Drizzt is right in that Saiyans have the overall power edge due to energy projection, but how much that actually matters is up for debate.
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The average Saiyan also has the tail weakness so Viltrumites should take this easily.
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Viltrumites fly between stars under their own power.

They're quite a bit faster than you give them credit.
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Sure, they can probably get up to and sustain high speeds in space to travel.
But they can't move short distances so fast the other fighter can't even detect it like in Dragonball.
And those are fighters who've trained to see other fighters who move at those speeds, getting outclassed (Piccolo and Goku).

The Viltrumites wouldn't even see themselves being destroyed.
There's a time and place for everything... but not now.
LinkDaLunatic posted...
Goku as a child was beyond normal human perception in terms of speed, and far beyond the normal human in power.

Omni Man was fast enough to catch and kill Red Rush who was so fast he was doing bullshit hero crap while on a picnic with his wife and his wife didn't even notice he was leaving and coming back.

Omni Man is also a bit of an outlier but you're dramatically underestimating how fast Viltrumites are.

Kid Goku struggled fighting with Yajirobe. Regardless of how strong Raditz is, it's safe to say the average viltrumite is way stronger than child Saiyans.
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
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Null_Gain posted...
The average Saiyan also has the tail weakness so Viltrumites should take this easily.

I was about to mention this. IDK enough about Invincible/Viltrumites to know if they're fast enough to grab hold of their tail though.
When the Saiyans were a race, how many of them could go Super? While defeating them makes them stronger, the key factor there is they have to survive and recover first. Does anyone think a Viltrumite would be that careless?
If you're not smart enough to survive, you are basically just food for something smarter.
Shamelessly stolen from a feat topic:

It took Omni-Man a week to get to Thraxa, as his own in-canon narration states:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4636323c.jpg
The Virgo Cluster is 65 Million LYs away from Earth and Nolan travelled that distance in around 7 days.

65,000,000 x 365 = 23,725,000,000 days it takes for light to reach the cluster.

23,725,000,000 7 {days} = 3,389,285,714.29c

This feat would be a bare minimum of 3+ billion x SoL.
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Tough call. Goku didn't actually get that many lifting scenes by the time we see Gohan, but speed works differently in Dragonball. Friction, aerodynamics, momentum and such don't really affect things in DB like they do in Invincible, which is why you can get afterimage dodges and *teleports behind you* shenanigans.
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Srk700 posted...
I was about to mention this. IDK enough about Invincible/Viltrumites to know if they're fast enough to grab hold of their tail though.

They'd figure it out eventually, even if by accident. Viltrumites are trained tacticians and the Saiyans relied on brute force.
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Thing to remember, the average Saiyan was significantly weaker than Raditz, he was one of the elite warriors.
The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist.
There's also Roshi destroying the Moon, which would've been easy for Raditz.
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Enclave posted...
Thing to remember, the average Saiyan was significantly weaker than Raditz, he was one of the elite warriors.
Was he? Vegeta called himself elite, and seemed to think Raditz was trash.
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Guide posted...
Was he? Vegeta called himself elite, and seemed to think Raditz was trash.
Everyone was trash according to Vegeta.
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
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Kaiser1one posted...
Average Saiyans aren't that powerful. This goes to Viltrumites.

See profile pic
StealThisSheen posted...
something a single high class Saiyan

BlueBoy675 posted...
average I mean like your run of the mill Saiyan

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How are you actually going to determine an average saiyan when they're carried so much by the top 15? Raditz is a low end mid class warrior out of 10 of them and he capped at 1500 pl, an average one would be much lower than that.
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Didnt Omniman, whos not an average viltrumite get Killed by a continent destroying attack ?
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Goku was an average Saiyan.
gamepimp12 posted...
Didnt Omniman, whos not an average viltrumite get Killed by a continent destroying attack ?
No.

The average Viltrumite is more powerful than the average Saiyan however the top saiyans are FAR above the most powerful Viltrumite.
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LordFarquad1312 posted...
StealThisSheen posted...
something a single high class Saiyan

BlueBoy675 posted...
average I mean like your run of the mill Saiyan

I get your point, but those three were also considered "high class" Viltrumites, so it was a fair comparison.

The issue is trying to extrapolate from there.
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I think average saiyans are weaker than some people think. The main characters are abnormal, not representative of the norm
Xethuminra posted...
Goku was an average Saiyan.
Who went through training that Saiyans never did, but are also not even able to do due to it required being dead.
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Xethuminra posted...
Goku was an average Saiyan.
They thought he was based on a test on him as a baby. Turns out they were wrong. His unseen potential lifted him above what the society believed was possible. He definitely is not average
StealThisSheen posted...
The issue is YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE AVERAGE SAIYAN WARRIOR ANYMORE, FREEZA
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Zikten posted...
They thought he was based on a test on him as a baby. Turns out they were wrong. His unseen potential lifted him above what the society believed was possible. He definitely is not average
Goku's fighting spirit is powered by the people of earth :)

also what Irony said, haha

average saiyans are weaker than raditz

theyre getting stomped
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havean776 posted...
No.

The average Viltrumite is more powerful than the average Saiyan however the top saiyans are FAR above the most powerful Viltrumite.

im pretty sure thats what happened to alternative reality omniman

cause thats what mark was bragging about that it took that much to beat him

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gamepimp12 posted...
im pretty sure thats what happened to alternative reality omniman

cause thats what mark was bragging about that it took that much to beat him
Maybe it did it has been a longtime since I read it.
He survives a lot of shit in the main universe however.
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Enclave posted...
Thing to remember, the average Saiyan was significantly weaker than Raditz, he was one of the elite warriors.
Raditz was actually one of the weakest, and a low class warrior with a power level of only 1,200. Equivalent to a Saibaman. Nappa was an elite, and I think his power was around 4,000. Let's ignore Vegeta as an outlier progidy, at 18,000.

Average Saiyan is probably around 2k PL. This means absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand, but it's fun to think about.
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LeCh0nk posted...
Raditz was actually one of the weakest, and a low class warrior with a power level of only 1,200. Equivalent to a Saibaman. Nappa was an elite, and I think his power was around 4,000. Let's ignore Vegeta as an outlier progidy, at 18,000.

Average Saiyan is probably around 2k PL. This means absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand, but it's fun to think about.

One of the weakest left, he wasn't weak for his race.

Pretty much your average Saiyan is low class trash like Goku when Raditz arrived on Earth.
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totalnerdken posted...
Average Saiyan would stomp. Even if they're struggling in main form, they can transform to Oozaru.

Can't they... Not do that, at will? And doesn't it blatantly have a weakness of failing if the tail gets cut off? I feel like anybody even near their power level could basically even just accidentally stumble into that weakness.
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Tyranthraxus posted...
Kid Goku struggled fighting with Yajirobe.
Yajirobe cut off Vegeta's tail and took a beating from an angry Vegeta.

He either has joke character power like Arale or he's extremely strong yet unconfident.
Current Events » An army of average Saiyans vs an army of average Viltrumites
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