MS urges devs not to create female characters w/exaggerated body proportions

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Current Events » MS urges devs not to create female characters w/exaggerated body proportions
Microsoft urges developers not to create female characters with exaggerated body proportions on their official site to support game devs.

The site, titled Product Inclusion Action: Help Customers Feel Seen includes a bullet list of considerations they urge developers to make when working on their product. One Twitter user pointed out the language expressly condemning certain female characters as reinforcing negative gender stereotypes.

Are you reinforcing any negative gender stereotypes?

  • Are you unnecessarily introducing gender & gender barriers into your code or design?
  • Are you creating playable female characters that are equal in skill and ability to their male peers.
  • Are your female characters equipped with clothing and armor that fits their tasks?
  • Do they have exaggerated body proportions?
  • When the story allows, do you show male characters who display a full range of emotions, including joy, sadness, and vulnerability?


Recently, western game developers have been making a point to rally against objectification in games and are citing unrealistic beauty standards set by fictional characters. Most recently, Stellar Blade has been the subject of such criticism despite the games heroine being based off of a real life model.

Between Microsofts developer site and Stellar Blade it seems theres been a reversal of roles. In recent years Sony has been criticized for its censorship policies after relocating its gaming business units to California.

Gamers have been more vigilant in recent weeks following an attempted harassment campaign initiated by an employee of Sweet Baby Inc against a Steam curator and his personal account. The controversy has spilled over from the employees actions to a wider conversation about narrative consultation in video games.

You can check out an archive of Microsofts developer page, including their comments about female characters here:
https://archive.is/97j6H#selection-1017.0-1025.24

https://nichegamer.com/microsoft-cautions-developers-to-avoid-curvy-female-characters/
twylite sprinkle
http://tinyurl.com/jeqyas3 https://tinyurl.com/mgvx7h2
Make sure all of your games are firmly limited by reality as well, we don't want to introduce things impossible by current science
http://bnuiransder.tumblr.com/
So much A R T
That's stupid. Shut up M$, just because you're micro and soft doesn't mean I can't be macro and hard.
evening main 2.4356848e+91
https://youtu.be/Acn5IptKWQU
When the story allows, do you show male characters who display a full range of emotions, including joy, sadness, and vulnerability?

They'll get no credit for this, because everyone will be focused on 'as a 45 year old man, I can't cope without enormous tits in my videogames'.

But in the light of the male suicide thread, I thought it was worth highlighting.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
Americans telling the rest of the world what to do again.

Load me into the matrix and dont pull the plug
Glad they are showing respect for us women


Bees
This is why theyre losing the console war
Not like some women dont naturally have proportions these people would call exaggerated. As long as not literally every woman in a game is like that I don't see a problem.

Not the same but similar take Fina fantasy 15 Cindy was really the only heavily sexualized woman. Dragoon chick at most showed cleavage. Every other woman dressed conservatively.
I put my heart and soul into my work and I fear I have lost my mind in the process
I want all male characters to be 400 pounds.
projectpat72988 posted...
I want all male characters to be 400 pounds.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8bdfdc8c.jpg
evening main 2.4356848e+91
https://youtu.be/Acn5IptKWQU
Imagine being a real life woman and being told that you aren't a realistic woman by these gaming companies.
ms should do this
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/48e12622.jpg
We suffer from the delusion that the entire universe is held in order by the categories of human thought.
Nukazie posted...
ms should do this


lol

deoxxys posted...
Gamers have been more vigilant in recent weeks following an attempted harassment campaign initiated by an employee of Sweet Baby Inc against a Steam curator and his personal account.

????

If you say I am wrong, then prove that you are right.
PesticideDream posted...
Imagine being a real life woman and being told that you aren't a realistic woman by these gaming companies.

Sufferedphoenix posted...
Not like some women dont naturally have proportions these people would call exaggerated. As long as not literally every woman in a game is like that I don't see a problem.
To these people against this one woman being sexual is too much.

There's lots of women like that in real life, that aren't even showing it off, the office lady in a sweater, the modestly dressed woman at the grocery store, etc. Some women just have calcium cannons you can't hide even when you dress modestly.

Even athletic women have that GYATT
https://youtu.be/uDzmFk4hgqw
https://youtu.be/utrV_xeV-e4
https://youtu.be/2ItvHiWRM4E
https://youtu.be/of8wBk-PANs
twylite sprinkle
http://tinyurl.com/jeqyas3 https://tinyurl.com/mgvx7h2
cjsdowg posted...
????
A company that advises devs on how to not offend players, had a list made of all the games they worked on. So that people who wished to avoid those games would know how to. The company got mad and tried to get the list maker's steam account banned
deoxxys posted...
To these people against this one woman being sexual is too much.

There's lots of women like that in real life, that aren't even showing it off, the office lady in a sweater, the modestly dressed woman at the grocery store, etc. Some women just have calcium cannons you can't hide even when you dress modestly.

Even athletic women have that GYATT
https://youtu.be/uDzmFk4hgqw
https://youtu.be/utrV_xeV-e4
https://youtu.be/2ItvHiWRM4E
https://youtu.be/of8wBk-PANs

Any kind of sport that involves a bit of sustained high output has women with incredible asses. Speedskating and polevaulting come to mind.
evening main 2.4356848e+91
https://youtu.be/Acn5IptKWQU
cjsdowg posted...
????
Individuals who work with Sweet Baby Inc. have begun a harassment campaign against the creator of the Sweet Baby Inc. Detected Steam curator.

The curation page is intended to inform users whether a game has relied on Sweet Babys narrative consultation service.

Critics of Sweet Baby believe that their mission of promoting inclusivity is done at the expense of a games narrative quality. Meanwhile the Sweet Baby employees criticize the curator for being ideologically motivated against woke ppl and have mocked the curators attempts to legitimize their work by avoiding loaded language and instead focusing on informing consumers.

The employees in question, Chris Kindred and Felix Kramer have both mentioned the curator, meanwhile Kindred has encouraged their followers to mass flag the curator, as well as his personal Steam account (seemingly to punish him).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1f62fd58.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f44890dd.jpg
Kindred also claims that the curator runs afoul of Steams Code of Conduct which says interactions should not be abusive, disparaging, or inflammatory, nor create an environment that is unwelcoming . However as stated previously, the curator has been tidying up their page in order to focus on informing consumers.
Kramer on the other hand, accuses the curator of being able to arbitrarily list any game they want as being involved with Sweet Baby and questions its accuracy and legitimacy. However the tweet has since received a community note which explains the curator uses Sweet Babys own website as a resource
twylite sprinkle
http://tinyurl.com/jeqyas3 https://tinyurl.com/mgvx7h2
I think steam came out and said the list doesn't break their rules.

Personally I don't care about sweet baby. I will play a game even if they worked on it. They might have some takes I don't agree with but I'm not opposed to their games. One of them, Spider-Man 2, I plan to play eventually

But I also heard that the Sweet Baby CEO tries to blackmail devs into using their service. Threatening them that they will be "canceled " if they refuse

And the original Sweet Baby employee who started this feud seems like a troll. So I have no sympathy to the company
deoxxys posted...
Individuals who work with Sweet Baby Inc. have begun a harassment campaign against the creator of the Sweet Baby Inc. Detected Steam curator.

It seems like both sides are trying to do the same thing to each other.
If you say I am wrong, then prove that you are right.
ai123 posted...
They'll get no credit for this, because everyone will be focused on 'as a 45 year old man, I can't cope without enormous tits in my videogames'.

But in the light of the male suicide thread, I thought it was worth highlighting.

Why not let both exist within the same media and the consumer pick what they want?
Asocial, not introverted. Know the difference.
Maybe those JRPGs villains were on to something about humanity being trash.
It's so hard to have discussions on things like this because so many gamers see all these things in absolute terms.

If you say we should try to have more female characters that aren't sexualized people go "Oh, so female game characters can NEVER be SEXY?"

If you say it's unrealistic to have games filled with female characters who all have tiny waists and giant boobs so maybe let's more variety of body types people go "Oh so if a REAL LIFE WOMAN has big boobs that means SHE'S NOT REALISTIC?"

If you say we should avoid female characters with no agency who serve only as damsels in distress for the male protagonist to save, people say "Oh so NO MAN can ever help ANY WOMAN or it's sexist?"

No one is expecting all games to follow all of the "rules" 100%. No one is saying games will be forced to follow them. There are no negative consequences for not following them. Are they even rules? More like suggestions. Seems to me like they're saying, hey, here are a bunch of guidelines, and maybe when you're making your games try to move a little bit in this direction? Thanks, we appreciate it.

It's like people are intentionally missing the point and reducing everything to the stupidest terms possible just so we can't have real discussions. It's exhausting.
"It's Brockin' time."
Erin Brockovich, Erin Brockovich
action52 posted...
It's exhausting
you know what's relaxing? watching polygonal tits jiggle
Kaiganeer posted...
you know what's relaxing? watching polygonal tits jiggle
https://webmshare.com/play/LB66B
deoxxys posted...
Are your female characters equipped with clothing and armor that fits their tasks ?

Right here is the important part. We want EFFORT. If you're going to include steamy moments and skimpy costumes, integrate them more into the game's scenario.
Swimming over the barrier to protect my egg.
deoxxys posted...
Microsoft urges developers not to create female characters with exaggerated body proportions on their official site to support game devs.

The site, titled Product Inclusion Action: Help Customers Feel Seen includes a bullet list of considerations they urge developers to make when working on their product. One Twitter user pointed out the language expressly condemning certain female characters as reinforcing negative gender stereotypes.

<u>Are you reinforcing any negative gender stereotypes?</u>

* Are you unnecessarily introducing gender & gender barriers into your code or design?
* Are you creating playable female characters that are equal in skill and ability to their male peers.
* Are your female characters equipped with clothing and armor that fits their tasks?
* Do they have exaggerated body proportions?
* When the story allows, do you show male characters who display a full range of emotions, including joy, sadness, and vulnerability?

Recently, western game developers have been making a point to rally against objectification in games and are citing unrealistic beauty standards set by fictional characters. Most recently, Stellar Blade has been the subject of such criticism despite the games heroine being based off of a real life model.

Between Microsofts developer site and Stellar Blade it seems theres been a reversal of roles. In recent years Sony has been criticized for its censorship policies after relocating its gaming business units to California.

Gamers have been more vigilant in recent weeks following an attempted harassment campaign initiated by an employee of Sweet Baby Inc against a Steam curator and his personal account. The controversy has spilled over from the employees actions to a wider conversation about narrative consultation in video games.

You can check out an archive of Microsofts developer page, including their comments about female characters here:
https://archive.is/97j6H#selection-1017.0-1025.24

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9799771f.jpg

Source:
https://nichegamer.com/microsoft-cautions-developers-to-avoid-curvy-female-characters/


Resetera doesn't count. They have no influence even though they think they do.
Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912
Oh no, heaven forbid we have attractive women!

Its not like there arent women who look like that either.
Shplendid!
Cynrascal posted...
Why not let both exist within the same media and the consumer pick what they want?
Not sure how this relates to what I was doing, which was to draw attention to the guidance on the portrayal of male characters.

We've been through a thread of people correctly stating that the expectation that men conceal and suppress emotions is damaging. In light of this, I thought the guidelines could be a small positive step forward.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
Only an incel would be bothered by these guidelines.
Rumble Roses. Someone enters the room. Them: O_O Me: What?! I always play games without my pants on!- Inmate 922335
#ImpeachToadDickTrump
Its important that women in video games dont have exaggerated body proportions and are equipped with clothing and armor that fits their tasks. Women should be portrayed as they are. The next time they make a wild west video game they should use this cowgirl below as a template:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/10fd1663.jpg

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deoxxys posted...
Critics of Sweet Baby believe that their mission of promoting inclusivity is done at the expense of a games narrative quality.

"critics" are just a bunch of incels who are whining and not understanding what that company actually does.
PSN: ArsenalGear, NNID: CrimsonG80, XB GT: CrimsonG80
Last game(s) finished: Robocop: Rogue City (PS5), Star Wars Jedi: Survivor (PS5)
CrimsonGear80 posted...
"critics" are just a bunch of incels who are whining and not understanding what that company actually does.
We seen what they've done and it's not good. Simple as.

The best thing about this Sweet Baby controversy is how it utterly exposed all sorts of journalists as dishonest gaslighters and grifters and exposed even worse companies in the same vein. It's refreshing to see people aren't falling for the "le evil gamergaters" bullshit this time around.
http://i.imgur.com/6VeX04D.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7T2OR-O2Vk
CrimsonGear80 posted...
"critics" are just a bunch of incels who are whining and not understanding what that company actually does.

What else is new? Those types misconstrue everything. There's an entire eroge industry for what they want.

Smut doesn't need to be tacked onto mainstream games, totally off tone from the game's setting.
Swimming over the barrier to protect my egg.
Vyrulisse posted...
We seen what they've done and it's not good. Simple as.

such as?

Vyrulisse posted...
The best thing about this Sweet Baby controversy is how it utterly exposed all sorts of journalists as dishonest gaslighters and grifters and exposed even worse companies in the same vein. It's refreshing to see people aren't falling for the "le evil gamergaters" bullshit this time around.

the whole thing revolves around these "gamers" thinking they are stopping "sexy women" from being in all their video games. that's incel gamergate BS if I ever heard it...

but let me guess, it's about "ethics in game journalism", right?
PSN: ArsenalGear, NNID: CrimsonG80, XB GT: CrimsonG80
Last game(s) finished: Robocop: Rogue City (PS5), Star Wars Jedi: Survivor (PS5)
Besides, there's always modders. It's not my business what mods someone installs.
Swimming over the barrier to protect my egg.
Sexist MS smh
See profile pic
Its a video game why would they have to have realistic proportions?
In Belichick we Trust
Humanity, specifically Western and especially American humans are sex negative and prudish by their very nature. So this isn't a surprise. I remember a survey done where many parents admitted they'd rather have their kids become serial killers than learn about sex at a young age from school if that tells you anything.
"Do you like Scary movies?"
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/70dfdfe2.jpg
GhostFaceLeaks posted...
Humanity, specifically Western and especially American humans are sex negative and prudish by their very nature. So this isn't a surprise. I remember a survey done where many parents admitted they'd rather have their kids become serial killers than learn about sex at a young age from school if that tells you anything.

I'm seeking an approach that maximizes freedom. While companies don't have to add or condone this material, players should not be stopped from modifying their own game for personal use.
Swimming over the barrier to protect my egg.
GhostFaceLeaks posted...
Humanity, specifically Western and especially American humans are sex negative and prudish by their very nature. So this isn't a surprise. I remember a survey done where many parents admitted they'd rather have their kids become serial killers than learn about sex at a young age from school if that tells you anything.
Stop assuming that all people in the west are Republicans
See profile pic
Gamers are weird, they care more about seeing boobs and having their games match exactly with their weeb RPG dialogue.

But if any piece of media makes fun of them, ohhhh boy.
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Iodine posted...
Its a video game why would they have to have realistic proportions?
That part.
Boop
Irony posted...
Stop assuming that all people in the west are Republicans

Even the deepest blue Democratic states aren't especially accommodating to sex work.
Swimming over the barrier to protect my egg.
Post #46 was unavailable or deleted.
mistymermaid posted...
Even the deepest blue Democratic states aren't especially accommodating to sex work.
There's a big difference between this and saying you'd rather your children be serial killers instead of learning about sex early
See profile pic
Vyrulisse posted...
We seen what they've done and it's not good. Simple as.

The best thing about this Sweet Baby controversy is how it utterly exposed all sorts of journalists as dishonest gaslighters and grifters and exposed even worse companies in the same vein. It's refreshing to see people aren't falling for the "le evil gamergaters" bullshit this time around.

Lmao of course you support it

Let's make biscuits!
deoxxys posted...
Most recently, Stellar Blade has been the subject of such criticism despite the games heroine being based off of a real life model.

There's volumes of literature and research about the unreasonable (and often unhealthy) standards and expectations models and modeling set for media consumers.

Stellar Blade might use a real woman, but she's not exactly a realistic woman to portray, and that's probably why it's caught so much flak.

There's nothing terribly untoward in Microsoft's guidelines, in that light.

What has books ever teached us? -- Captain Afrohead
Subject-verb agreement. -- t3h 0n3
Irony posted...
There's a big difference between this and saying you'd rather your children be serial killers instead of learning about sex early

Did you expect conservatives to say anything else? Their fixation on blocking sexual education, denying gender transition care, and the like, is a cover for their own perverse desires.
Swimming over the barrier to protect my egg.
Current Events » MS urges devs not to create female characters w/exaggerated body proportions
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