How do you pronounce "o with the umlaut" in Norse words and names?

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Current Events » How do you pronounce "o with the umlaut" in Norse words and names?
Rharyx211
10/26/2023
01:34 PM
#1
I can't put "" into topic titles, but that's what I'm asking about.

Like Rangark, everyone says "ragna-rock" but I'm reading that it should be more like like an "ur" sound?

What brought upon my curiosity is because I noticed a character in a JRPG named Hr had their name written out as /hezu in Japanese, and that made me do a double-take.

I know the is pronounced more like a "th," which would be rendered in Japanese as a /zu because S- and Z- sounds are commonly used to represent "th" sounds. But the being represented by an "eh" sound in Japanese is what's tripping me up.
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Were_Wyrm
10/26/2023
01:36 PM
#2
o with the umlaut
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teep_
10/26/2023
01:39 PM
#3
I'm reading on Wikipedia that it can be pronounced similarly to the German

which is sort of like the French -eaux
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UnholyMudcrab
10/26/2023
02:51 PM
#4
My understanding is that, in most cases, in Old Norse typography is just an Icelandic-derived replacement for or , which were pronounced as an "ah" sound.

So in that case, ragnark would be pronounced pretty closely to what it is in English.
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FlowerGimmick
10/26/2023
03:07 PM
#5
teep_ posted...
I'm reading on Wikipedia that it can be pronounced similarly to the German

which is sort of like the French -eaux

Yes. Or like the 'e' in 'her'.
Rharyx211
10/26/2023
04:19 PM
#6
teep_ posted...
which is sort of like the French -eaux
Isn't that more of an "oo" sound? Like in "boo"?
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Foppe
10/26/2023
04:26 PM
#7
https://youtu.be/69G6N4W6yHM?si=F603pTYCkK6OzqI5
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Rharyx211
10/26/2023
04:38 PM
#8
Okay, so it is supposed to be more like "ragna-ruck" if pronounced more authentically?
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Shishiwakamaru
10/26/2023
04:40 PM
#9
Rharyx211 posted...
Isn't that more of an "oo" sound? Like in "boo"?

Thats like ber
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Rharyx211
10/26/2023
04:50 PM
#10
Yeah, I meant isn't -eaux pronounced like "oo," which wouldn't be how is pronounced?
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UnholyMudcrab
10/26/2023
04:54 PM
#11
Rharyx211 posted...
Okay, so it is supposed to be more like "ragna-ruck" if pronounced more authentically?
That pronunciation is Icelandic. The vowel sound in the Norse pronunciation would be more or less the same as the English one, but a bit shorter.

Edit: Because there's so much confusion, the Norse is pronounced as the [] sound, which is the sound that occurs in English words like "cot" or "bother"
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sfcalimari
10/26/2023
04:56 PM
#12
Pretty sure -eaux in french is more like a long English o, like the o in home. Eaux, Bordeaux, Thibodeaux. O, Bordo, Tibodo.
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Garabandal
10/26/2023
04:57 PM
#13
How do you pronounce Th Wll f Scrific
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UnholyMudcrab
10/26/2023
04:57 PM
#14
Y'all got some weird ideas about how sounds are pronounced, I gotta say
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Rharyx211
10/26/2023
05:01 PM
#15
UnholyMudcrab posted...
Y'all got some weird ideas about how sounds are pronounced, I gotta say
I feel like I'm more confused than when I made the topic lol

So, why is being approximated in Japanese with "e" sounds...?
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sfcalimari
10/27/2023
06:04 PM
#16
Rharyx211 posted...
I feel like I'm more confused than when I made the topic lol

So, why is being approximated in Japanese with "e" sounds...?

Vowels in Japanese are very basic. Trying to do Scandinavian words in Japanese is just asking for trouble.
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indica
10/27/2023
06:29 PM
#17
Rharyx211 posted...
Yeah, I meant isn't -eaux pronounced like "oo," which wouldn't be how is pronounced?
I think it's closer to "oh"

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Rharyx211
10/27/2023
06:50 PM
#18
sfcalimari posted...
Vowels in Japanese are very basic. Trying to do Scandinavian words in Japanese is just asking for trouble.
Yeah, that's fair.

Sounds like /hazu might've been a closer approximation to get the sound, since "ha" in Japanese would be more like "huh" in English. But it seems impossible to get the exact sound either way.
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BurmesePenguin
10/27/2023
06:58 PM
#19
My name has an () in it and I find English speakers get it approx right if I tell them its pronounced like the e in fern.

As for if thats applicable to old norse I don't actually know because in modern danish Ragnarok just spelled and pronounced with an o instead of an /.
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ShadowLake
10/27/2023
06:59 PM
#20
The Scandinavian languages are some of the vowel richest ones in the world. So difficult for other languages to copy.

Teehee! ^.^
Rharyx211
10/27/2023
08:36 PM
#21
Oh, as a follow-up question, are the "r"s at the end of words like Hermr, or Urr, or Baldr silent? Because I'm seeing conflicting answers.
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DrizztLink
10/27/2023
08:47 PM
#22
Were_Wyrm posted...
o with the umlaut
"Ragnar- o with the umlaut - k" is a very unwieldy phrase.
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Tom_Joad
10/27/2023
08:51 PM
#23
Mtly Crw sy tht prd, "Mw!"
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UnholyMudcrab
10/27/2023
09:21 PM
#24
Rharyx211 posted...
Oh, as a follow-up question, are the "r"s at the end of words like Hermr, or Urr, or Baldr silent? Because I'm seeing conflicting answers.
It's a short tapped 'r'

Since you mentioned Hr earlier in the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H%C3%B6%C3%B0r_(RP).ogg
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Rharyx211
10/27/2023
10:37 PM
#25
UnholyMudcrab posted...
It's a short tapped 'r'

Since you mentioned Hr earlier in the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H%C3%B6%C3%B0r_(RP).ogg
By short tapped, it's like a quick flick of the tongue?

I've heard the wiki example there, but is that Hr or Hr, since it seems the O letter is different there?
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UnholyMudcrab
10/28/2023
01:58 AM
#26
Rharyx211 posted...
By short tapped, it's like a quick flick of the tongue?

I've heard the wiki example there, but is that Hr or Hr, since it seems the O letter is different there?
It's the same thing. is the older vowel, and is what it eventually merged into in Old Icelandic. I prefer when writing it out because can give an inaccurate impression of what the pronunciation is supposed to be.
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Rharyx211
10/28/2023
01:15 PM
#27
Gotcha. So let me see if I got this correct: became , and the Norse pronunciation is more like "ah" -- so something like ragnarok is indeed "ragna-rock."

However, the Icelandic pronunciation is "uh."
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FlowerGimmick
10/28/2023
02:22 PM
#28
Rharyx211 posted...
the Norse pronunciation is more like "ah" -- so something like ragnarok is indeed "ragna-rock."

More like "ragna-ruhk".
Guide
10/28/2023
02:24 PM
#29
like a canadian ghost
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Current Events » How do you pronounce "o with the umlaut" in Norse words and names?