Another Year, Another School Shooting...

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Poll of the Day » Another Year, Another School Shooting...
https://news.yahoo.com/police-shooting-high-school-perry-144903460.html

What a way to start off the new year...no deaths being reported as of now...
This will continue to happen as long as schools remain soft targets.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
This will continue to happen as long as schools remain soft targets.

so give the teachers guns?
https://youtu.be/lOTyUfOHgas?si=RqGMtit1O_OVyyvs
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https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/10/5/uv4r7nGyrE6ylt2lHGWpiQ2.gif
famfam posted...
so give the teachers guns?

If they're trained and want to, sure. Or hire veterans, maybe.
The reason schools are targeted is because they're soft targets, whether the perpetrator attended or not.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
If only guns weren't legal meaning, allowing anyone who wants one a murder weapon is just stupid.
"All these kids dying is the schools' fault for being 'soft targets'" is definitely one of the dumbest statements regarding school shootings that I've seen

"Make everything an armed fortress!" is a collosally stupid and shortsighted "solution"

Plenty of countries have managed to greatly reduce or even nearly curb gun violence without staffing businesses and schools with armed guards. Know how they did it? Reducing the overall amount of available guns and regulating gun ownership. It's not rocket surgery

2nd amendment does not make all guns and gun owners untouchable. We can pass laws to regulate ownership and draft comprehensive buyback plans to reduce the number of guns on streets and in households, among other solutions (universal healthcare with robust mental health coverage, etc)

Look at Uvalde. What good is having an armed presence at the school when people with guns piss themselves in fear of being shot themselves? They stood by and listened to the screams of helpless dying children. Having armed guards isn't going to prevent or even minimize all shootings. You can put a gun in someone's hands and train them how to point it and shoot, but all the training on the planet can't give a coward a backbone
I wonder how the world will change when all these kids with the early trauma get to be parents.
He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
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SwollenColon posted...
"All these kids dying is the schools' fault for being 'soft targets'" is definitely one of the dumbest statements regarding school shootings that I've seen

"Make everything an armed fortress!" is a collosally stupid and shortsighted "solution"

Plenty of countries have managed to greatly reduce or even nearly curb gun violence without staffing businesses and schools with armed guards. Know how they did it? Reducing the overall amount of available guns and regulating gun ownership. It's not rocket surgery

2nd amendment does not make all guns and gun owners untouchable. We can pass laws to regulate ownership and draft comprehensive buyback plans to reduce the number of guns on streets and in households, among other solutions (universal healthcare with robust mental health coverage, etc)

Look at Uvalde. What good is having an armed presence at the school when people with guns piss themselves in fear of being shot themselves? They stood by and listened to the screams of helpless dying children. Having armed guards isn't going to prevent or even minimize all shootings. You can put a gun in someone's hands and train them how to point it and shoot, but all the training on the planet can't give a coward a backbone

I'm saying that if the potential threat knows that it won't be an easy peasy shooting gallery, they most likely won't even attempt it.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
313800 posted...
If only guns weren't legal meaning, allowing anyone who wants one a murder weapon is just stupid.

Murder is illegal. How is that working out?
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
I'm saying that if the potential threat knows that it won't be an easy peasy shooting gallery, they most likely won't even attempt it.
Shootings happen regularly at military bases, which have armed guards as well as armories accessible to the service members. Sometimes several armories, depending on the size of the base.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/06/us/deadliest-military-base-shootings-trnd/index.html

http://i.imgur.com/ocx9d7F.gifv
Unadulterated posted...
If they're trained and want to, sure. Or hire veterans, maybe.
The reason schools are targeted is because they're soft targets, whether the perpetrator attended or not.

An overwhelming majority of school shootings are carried out by somebody with a connection to the school. It's pretty rare that it's somebody saying "I feel like shooting a bunch of people, that random school looks nice and vulnerable."

Unadulterated posted...
Murder is illegal. How is that working out?

Compared to a hypothetical place where murder isn't illegal? Probably pretty well, actually.
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adjl posted...
An overwhelming majority of school shootings are carried out by somebody with a connection to the school. It's pretty rare that it's somebody saying "I feel like shooting a bunch of people, that random school looks nice and vulnerable."

Another good point. The motivation is not "that looks like an easy place to shoot up". It's typically someone with some personal connection to the place.

http://i.imgur.com/ocx9d7F.gifv
There is a serious mental health issue in the US.
I can't fake humble just because you're insecure
Independent thought is like an eternal enemy -Kendrick Lamar
Grendel_Prime posted...
Another good point. The motivation is not "that looks like an easy place to shoot up". It's typically someone with some personal connection to the place.

I touched on that. Still. They choose to do so because there is no resistance.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
No. Not "because" there's no resistance. It's because they have a connection to the shooting location. That there is little or no resistance may factor into the decision for some, but it is not the primary motivating factor. It's largely coincidence that there are no guards at these shootings.

And as was already pointed out, military bases are targeted by shooters. The White House and other government buildings/agencies have been targeted. Hardly "soft targets."
http://i.imgur.com/ocx9d7F.gifv
You either make rules for mentally unstable people getting guns, give kids free mental healthcare, or put a gun in every classroom.

That last option is an insult, btw. Yes, sell more guns. The progressive, high-road solution. I guess if you locked it in an extremely secure vault that can only be opened remotely, but that would be a total copout to solving the problem. The solution is to have the kid maybe only kill a couple of other kids, then for a teacher to shoot the shooter dead, maybe cutting the amount of deaths in half.

Our school had a free therapist, that's a good start. But not everyone benefits from that, some people need free meds too. And free stays at psych wards.
Grendel_Prime posted...
No. Not "because" there's no resistance. It's because they have a connection to the shooting location. That there is little or no resistance may factor into the decision for some, but it is not the primary motivating factor. It's largely coincidence that there are no guards at these shootings.

And as was already pointed out, military bases are targeted by shooters. The White House and other government buildings/agencies have been targeted. Hardly "soft targets."

They may have a connection and that's why they want to commit they heinous act, but they plan and actually go through with it, oftentimes, because no one is going to stop them. Of course there are other factors involved, the biggest being mental illness. Having someone armed isn't a cure all because one doesn't really exist. If they want to harm people, they will find a way. Having a psychological and physical deterrent would help though.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Again, military installations and the White House have been targeted by shooters. You seem determined to stick this notion that shooters are motivated by soft targets, which is plainly erroneous.

Regardless, removing and regulating firearms would help more, as is evidenced through other countries which have had success with reducing firearms violence.
http://i.imgur.com/ocx9d7F.gifv
1 Dead Several Injured so far...
Unadulterated posted...
This will continue to happen as long as schools remain soft targets.
I wonder how other countries handle that issue... has anyone ever asked them?
Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster.
Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror!
pionear posted...
1 Dead Several Injured so far...
Yeah, and the broader impact of a school shooting is that the entire community feels threatened and unsafe.
Grendel_Prime posted...
Again, military installations and the White House have been targeted by shooters. You seem determined to stick this notion that shooters are motivated by soft targets, which is plainly erroneous.

Regardless, removing and regulating firearms would help more, as is evidenced through other countries which have had success with reducing firearms violence.

Grendel_Prime posted...
Again, military installations and the White House have been targeted by shooters. You seem determined to stick this notion that shooters are motivated by soft targets, which is plainly erroneous.

Regardless, removing and regulating firearms would help more, as is evidenced through other countries which have had success with reducing firearms violence.

That's a simplistic way of looking at it. Of course there are shootings on military bases. Performed by trained soldiers with mental illness. School shootings are mostly perpetrated by kids with mental illness. There's a good chance that armed security will deter an armed kid.

How would you remove/regulate firearms?

"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
darkknight109 posted...
I wonder how other countries handle that issue... has anyone ever asked them?

Other countries also have a different culture and difference in population then ours.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
Other countries also have a different culture and difference in population then ours.

Said culture being "not every Joe Schmoe needs an AR-15" and it seems to be working out pretty well for them.
Arrrr the SS Goku, Mighty fine boat... -fatmatt
Hope Frieza doesn't chuck an Iceberg at the Goku, otherwise it's all over. -Nekoslash
mario2000 posted...
Said culture being "not every Joe Schmoe needs an AR-15" and it seems to be working out pretty well for them.

What's wrong with having an AR-15? I have one. It's a pretty solid rifle.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
How would you remove/regulate firearms?

  • Regular background checks, mental health screening, and safety training to maintain a firearms license
  • No firearms sales without a valid license (license system should incorporate a digital/app component to facilitate this for private sales)
  • Mandatory 2-week waiting period on all gun purchases
  • A proper registry of all guns sold with more consistent rules for serial numbering (not the microfilm nonsense they've got now because of the NRA's insistence on hobbling registration efforts)
  • At all times, every gun registered to a given owner must be secured in a manner that only the owner (not the owner's spouse, friends, kids, or anyone else) can access, except one that is kept on the owner's person at all times in accordance with local carry laws
  • If anyone else uses an owner's gun, they must be supervised by the owner in doing so and the owner will be automatically considered partially responsible for any crimes committed using that gun (similar to how car insurance works when letting somebody borrow your car)
  • If an owner loses control of their gun for any reason (e.g. theft), this must be reported to police within 24 hours to avoid liability


Possibly a few other ideas and tweaks to the nuance of everything (like specific numbers), but that's the gist of it. You'll notice that most/all of those already line up with what responsible gun owners do, which avoids the dreaded "punishing responsible gun owners" issue and instead forces everyone to be a responsible gun owner. It's not perfect, but waiting periods and greater accountability for keeping guns secured will go a long way to keeping guns out of the hands of people in crisis (especially kids that can't buy their own guns in any circumstances), which in turn can be expected to prevent suicides and mass shootings.
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Unadulterated posted...
What's wrong with having an AR-15? I have one. It's a pretty solid rifle.

Every Joe Schmoe does not need one.
Arrrr the SS Goku, Mighty fine boat... -fatmatt
Hope Frieza doesn't chuck an Iceberg at the Goku, otherwise it's all over. -Nekoslash
adjl posted...
* Regular background checks, mental health screening, and safety training to maintain a firearms license
* No firearms sales without a valid license (license system should incorporate a digital/app component to facilitate this for private sales)
* Mandatory 2-week waiting period on all gun purchases
* A proper registry of all guns sold with more consistent rules for serial numbering (not the microfilm nonsense they've got now because of the NRA's insistence on hobbling registration efforts)
* At all times, every gun registered to a given owner must be secured in a manner that only the owner (not the owner's spouse, friends, kids, or anyone else) can access, except one that is kept on the owner's person at all times in accordance with local carry laws
* If anyone else uses an owner's gun, they must be supervised by the owner in doing so and the owner will be automatically considered partially responsible for any crimes committed using that gun (similar to how car insurance works when letting somebody borrow your car)
* If an owner loses control of their gun for any reason (e.g. theft), this must be reported to police within 24 hours to avoid liability

Possibly a few other ideas and tweaks to the nuance of everything (like specific numbers), but that's the gist of it. You'll notice that most/all of those already line up with what responsible gun owners do, which avoids the dreaded "punishing responsible gun owners" issue and instead forces everyone to be a responsible gun owner. It's not perfect, but waiting periods and greater accountability for keeping guns secured will go a long way to keeping guns out of the hands of people in crisis (especially kids that can't buy their own guns in any circumstances), which in turn can be expected to prevent suicides and mass shootings.

I can agree with a lot of what you listed and a lot of that is already done as well. Mental health is something that really needs to be addressed. That's the main thing, imo.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
mario2000 posted...
Every Joe Schmoe does not need one.

Why AR-15's specifically?
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
Why AR-15's specifically?

Why not them specifically?
Arrrr the SS Goku, Mighty fine boat... -fatmatt
Hope Frieza doesn't chuck an Iceberg at the Goku, otherwise it's all over. -Nekoslash
mario2000 posted...
Why not them specifically?

What's your reasoning for banning AR-15's?
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
On the bright side it's only the first shooting of the year.
You are now blinking and breathing manually.
https://i.imgur.com/91NC0Cb.mp4
Unadulterated posted...
What's your reasoning for banning AR-15's?

I never said I wanted to ban them.
Arrrr the SS Goku, Mighty fine boat... -fatmatt
Hope Frieza doesn't chuck an Iceberg at the Goku, otherwise it's all over. -Nekoslash
mario2000 posted...
I never said I wanted to ban them.

Ok, so who do you think should be allowed one if "every Joe Shmoe doesn't need one"?
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
Mental health is something that really needs to be addressed. That's the main thing, imo.
That is not the main thing.

Case in point: literally every country in the world has mentally ill people, yet the US is alone in dealing with an epidemic of mass shooting.

Most mass shooters have no history of mental illness, nor any indication that they are suffering from a mental condition.
Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster.
Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror!
Unadulterated posted...
Ok, so who do you think should be allowed one if "every Joe Shmoe doesn't need one"?

Game hunters or active military members.
Arrrr the SS Goku, Mighty fine boat... -fatmatt
Hope Frieza doesn't chuck an Iceberg at the Goku, otherwise it's all over. -Nekoslash
darkknight109 posted...
That is not the main thing.
Mental health is definitely the main thing. Just because someone has no documented history of having mental health issues doesn't mean they don't.

If someone thinks that shooting up their school, a mall, their place is employment, etc., is a healthy response to the problems and stressors they are facing in life is not in a healthy mental state. Regardless of access to guns, that person who thinks violence is the best course of action needs help. They aren't coping properly with the same issues that all of us face daily without lashing out. That is very clearly a mental health issue.
I can't fake humble just because you're insecure
Independent thought is like an eternal enemy -Kendrick Lamar
Don't bang your heads against this wall on potd.

You're not going to change anyone's mind. Their favorite talking heads have filled their ears with skewed data and false statistics and misunderstandings of gun classifications to the point where they cannot hear anything other than demonic raving if you say anything to the contrary.

Just live happily knowing that as much as they scream, they will never be able to take your guns away.
mario2000 posted...
Game hunters or active military members.

That would never be a thing here lol
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
marthalies posted...
Mental health is definitely the main thing. Just because someone has no documented history of having mental health issues doesn't mean they don't.

If someone thinks that shooting up their school, a mall, their place is employment, etc., is a healthy response to the problems and stressors they are facing in life is not in a healthy mental state. Regardless of access to guns, that person who thinks violence is the best course of action needs help. They aren't coping properly with the same issues that all of us face daily without lashing out. That is very clearly a mental health issue.

And if it isn't guns, they'd find something else to harm people with. There are worse things than guns.

"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
ItIsSoOver posted...
Don't bang your heads against this wall on potd.

You're not going to change anyone's mind. Their favorite talking heads have filled their ears with skewed data and false statistics and misunderstandings of gun classifications to the point where they cannot hear anything other than demonic raving if you say anything to the contrary.

Just live happily knowing that as much as they scream, they will never be able to take your guns away.

"Black scary gun fires 150,000 rounds a second because of hyper auto fire and is scarier than anything the military has!" They're goofy as hell lol
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
That's a simplistic way of looking at it.
Of course it is. It was a quick response, not a detailed outline of what I would envision as comprehensive gun reform.

Of course there are shootings on military bases. Performed by trained soldiers with mental illness. School shootings are mostly perpetrated by kids with mental illness. There's a good chance that armed security will deter an armed kid.
There's an even better chance that reducing the amount of available firearms and better regulating those that remain available would deter school shootings altogether. Don't need "deter an armed kid" if they can't become armed in the first place.

As darkknight pointed out, most mass shootings are not perpetrated by people with a history of mental illness. Mental illness certainly needs to be addressed in the US, but mental illness is not the core issue with gun violence. The core issue is the overt saturation of firearms and their availability to the public.

How would you remove/regulate firearms?

Much of what adjl noted, though I will add that all firearms should be insured, like automobiles. There should be a limit to the number of firearms a person/household can own. No one should be able to amass a personal arsenal. Same with ammunition. A reasonable amount of ammunition for personal use. No one should have a stockpile of bullets where they could essentially murder thousands of people.
http://i.imgur.com/ocx9d7F.gifv
darkknight109 posted...
That is not the main thing.

Case in point: literally every country in the world has mentally ill people, yet the US is alone in dealing with an epidemic of mass shooting.

Most mass shooters have no history of mental illness, nor any indication that they are suffering from a mental condition.
I think mental health is definitely at least a huge factor. Mental health and substance abuse are bigger problems in the US than at least most of the developed world. But acting like guns aren't also the problem is disingenuous at best. We have too many guns and too many people with serious mental health issues that have easy access to them

Also, would like to add that part of the problem with the US is undiagnosed mental illness which ties into our shitty health infrastructure. To say these guys who run into a school and shoot a bunch of people indiscriminately don't have mental health issues is a pretty ridiculous assertion. Also, many of them have been on prescribed drugs
aHappySacka posted...
On the bright side it's only the first shooting of the year.

And on the 'Dark' side it's probably not the last one...

Anyhoo:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iowa-school-shooting-suspect-filmed-210210501.html

Been identified, only 17
Grendel_Prime posted...
Of course it is. It was a quick response, not a detailed outline of what I would envision as comprehensive gun reform.

There's an even better chance that reducing the amount of available firearms and better regulating those that remain available would deter school shootings altogether. Don't need "deter an armed kid" if they can't become armed in the first place.

As darkknight pointed out, most mass shootings are not perpetrated by people with a history of mental illness. Mental illness certainly needs to be addressed in the US, but mental illness is not the core issue with gun violence. The core issue is the overt saturation of firearms and their availability to the public.

Much of what adjl noted, though I will add that all firearms should be insured, like automobiles. There should be a limit to the number of firearms a person/household can own. No one should be able to amass a personal arsenal. Same with ammunition. A reasonable amount of ammunition for personal use. No one should have a stockpile of bullets where they could essentially murder thousands of people.

Yeah, none of that would ever happen nor be 100% possible in the real world. Nobody would allow that.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Unadulterated posted...
Yeah, none of that would ever happen nor be 100% possible in the real world. Nobody would allow that.
It's been done in other countries. Buybacks.
http://i.imgur.com/ocx9d7F.gifv
Unadulterated posted...
That would never be a thing here lol

Yes. That's the problem.
Arrrr the SS Goku, Mighty fine boat... -fatmatt
Hope Frieza doesn't chuck an Iceberg at the Goku, otherwise it's all over. -Nekoslash
mario2000 posted...
Yes. That's the problem.

Bad guys would still get them.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
Grendel_Prime posted...
It's been done in other countries. Buybacks.

Of course there are dumb suckers that want a gift card lol Why should a good guy that owns a gun give away one of his freedoms? The bad guys don't give a shit about that.

A lot of people I debate with about this rarely have any real world experience with any of this stuff or been around thugs in the ghetto or anywhere else dangerous and probably haven't even held a real gun.
"I needed to get to my unhappy place."- Max Payne
Steam - Murderous Bastard
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