Current Events > It's obvious that God is real.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why does God's love look like Cthulhu's indifference?

Skimming the discussion so far, nothing particularly impressive has been put forth. It's the standard routine of assuming God exists in whatever way you need him to, and then dance around the specifics people bring up while pretending you are being reasonable.

Even if you grant that God exists and the world has needing saving from destruction--and therefore, been saved since we are having this conversation--that doesn't mean God did anything. Humans could have been agents of their own salvation, necessitating no action on God's part. Humans might not be the only life God created---aliens might be preserving us. Or it could be another supernatural force like the Devil or demons or angels or spirits or something.

Or maybe God exists and created everything, but the world doesn't need saving because we are all inside of an advanced simulation living out a fictional life separate from a real, but different world.

https://youtu.be/jupGy_v7VE8?si=n3uxF8lDvjtVR56d

God talk to me

[W on TV]

Centuries of philosophical effort by some very clever people has failed to provide anything resembling "knowledge of God".

Instead, the God situation is the same as it has always been -- people believe what they want to believe -- which is mightily unimpressive to unbelievers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nX6qGeyaGM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl6fyhZ0G5E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6g6r43zR-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ksOgOnX8q4

I will respond to the posts too.

Enclave posted...

Then prove it because you'd be literally the first person in the history of mankind to manage to do it. I don't think you realize just how big of a deal it would be world wide.

What is my reward in doing this? Billions of people existed and still exist without needing it. So...almost nobody would really care because it's obvious to most people that God is real. You overestimate how many people truly struggle with the concept.

Pikachuchupika posted...

Even if god existed I bet it's some kind of thing, like some kind of primordial particle. I highly doubt it's a sentient being that knows stuff. Reality tends to be boring and I'm sure a god is no different. Regardless, it's not worth worshipping and idolizing. We can only rely on ourselves, which is what we've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. There are no guarantees in this reality (there are no gods lending us a hand). That's just your mind trying to make sense of everything and jumping to conclusions.

Imo, if you're going to worship something, worship the sun. We know it's there. It gives us heat and light and life. Without it we would not be here.

You could say that God is the primordial particle. Imagine it being intelligent for trillions of years before anything else was intelligent. If you would worship the sun, why not worship the entire galaxy? That's greater than the sun. But there is something greater than the galaxy! And so on.

Fundamentally, we know intelligence exists in the universe. It is a property observed in reality. If there was something which has been intelligent for millions or billions of years, that's already so vastly beyond human comprehensions.

PMarth2002 posted...

If that's the case, shouldn't different religions be a lot less contradictory to one another?

out of curiosity, what's your view of hell?

They are set in different cultural contexts, and even the geographies matter. So it's not so simple to say that they contradict each other. They were not intended to be in competition with each other in that way, but rather to preserve and shape the entire narrative of each culture and nation. Which they did.

If you reduce each one to its core meaning, the way Jesus showed that the reduction of the entirety of Judaism and Christianity is "Love your Self, your Neighbor, and God as best as you can" (with all your heart, mind, and soul), they converge in that direction and effect. So that's basically what Jesus did when he was out in India during his "Lost Years" and so on and so forth.

My view on Hell is that it's a real place and technically God's intention is to toss Satan and his two chief minions into Hell. As for everyone else, they are judged according to one of two things - the "Book of Life" or just a set of books containing their works. The Book of Life is basically God's guest list where someone gets to skip the other part because they are freely included by God in the Book of Life. That is because of their faith and love for God.

Otherwise, they are judged according to their lives/works.

My personal theory is that...as a final fuck you to Satan, God's going to just give everyone a chance at being in the Book of Life even completely for free at the very last possible second, such that only the truly decrepit follow Satan into Hell.kind9 posted...

Proof is for math and logic. Therefore God is a concept that disproves itself. You know, on account of the countless contradictions and absurdities. If "God" is just "creator deity" with no other attribute attached to it then I might be agnostic. Everything else is obviously made up based on various human traditions.

Did you ever see that Star Trek movie when the primitive planet's natives see the USS Enterprise and then create traditions around it? Just because something is based on a tradition doesn't mean there isn't an element or truth, or an entire truth, to it.

GrandConjuraton posted...

Absolutely.

Jesus is king.

Amen.

lydiaquayle posted...

What story was there 5 billion years ago?

Enough of one that there's one presently! And the same is true of 5 trillion years ago.

vycebrand2 posted...

Or any god from any religion since humans thought them up. You can also follow how each civilization took ideas from another. Great flood for example knowing that the Epic of Gilgamesh features one it was used to put Noah as a story featuring a flood. The stories have no proof they ever happened.

The problem is that people see commonalities and assume the worst. Instead of...considering that their hubris on the matter is getting in the way of a basic realization that a bunch of people agreed on similar things happening.

What kind of proof do you expect the stories to give you? The tomes and narratives discovered repeatedly are the evidence. They're not devices that show replayable holographs see proof that way lol.

16-BITTER posted...

The whole "probability of God" that you see repeated in academic circles is an appeal to the idea that, because the universe and the laws of physics are so ridiculouslycomplex, the chance of them being created by accident is incalcuably low.

But academics reserve this thought for a "creator", not a meddler. No one sensible believes an omniscient, onnipresent, omnipotent god is interfering in world events, answering prayers, deciding life and death for billions of people according to "mysterious ways", or condeming you to hell for shitposting on a dying video game website

But who is going to tell the creator when or when not to meddle? That would be up to that being. The object of the game being to let two sides of free willed agents reach the final state of things would mean that he could intervene in subtle ways.

The probability you mentioned is indeed what I'm referring to. But even beyond that. The physicists and biologists understand that level of probability too and they tend to be impressed by the beauty and mystique of it, but then when you look at people's lives to see their patterns you will find that there are people who defy the patterns and they credit God. There is a lot to unpack in that but it's the same type of improbability as everything else stacked on top of it. So then when you consider too the information theory behind the probability of the prevalence and quality of similar messaging being seeded across the Earth in ways that have maintained cross-cultural, cross-lingual barriers very well even between nuclear powers far before advanced translation was available...well, that probability train is starting to suggest something about the information, isn't it?

Universe -> Earth -> Information -> Society -> Surviving Nazis because of particular information that preceeded Society priming people to adopt a stance against Evil with a capital E -> billions of people who believe in God -> impressive testimonies

This could be unpacked very minutely to calculate the odds and...yeah, there'd be no reason for anyone to laugh at someone who loves God or believe they are less than in any way.

lydiaquayle posted...

Why can't it be possible that even a Creator came about 'by accident'?

That would be hilarious and I see no reason why it's not possible that God is an accident so to speak lol. It can certainly get loopy when you take time into account and try to understand how God fits in time.

It's also possible that God is so old that in order for him to explain how he came to exist would take so long that he'd have to walk down memory lane for an infinite amount of time in the reverse direction such that you wouldn't even care to hear the answer anymore rather than just continue with God in the forward direction into Heaven lmao.

vycebrand2 posted...

You might as get a level 5 civilization. To everybody else they might as well be Gods

Our solar system might have been tampered with a 3 or 4. They would know how to elevate species and to sculpt star systems. To us they would have seemed like Gods too. I imagine we were a experiment

Yeah imagine something like that but with enough power to accomplish the events of the New Testament. And to do that while the main guy on Earth at the time is teaching homo sapiens "yo, share some water in the desert, man"

I really like Ridley Scott's Prometheus.

kind9 posted...

If by academics we're talking about philosophers of religion, the vast majority of them are religious theists. They might talk about first cause, prime mover, etc, just to establish the existence of a creator (I believe they fail at even this tbh), but the God they want you to believe in is still a religious one that has no chance of existing. Look at William Lane Craig AKA "Low Bar Bill", who goes around debating whether the Christian God is necessary for morality. It's not. He's gotten stomped by actual moral philosophers like Shelly Kagan.

A Good God is needed for morality because otherwise, Evil would have won. Homo sapiens has produced many horrors on Earth such that it's easy to conceive of hellish and evil things. Have you seen the horror sci fi Event Horizon? So imagine that or Nazi Zombies all the way through to get an idea of why it's obvious that God is Good. If he wasn't, then the cliche concept of Evil would literally actually win.

This is what is meant when they say that you need God for morality. You need someone who is powerful enough as a being but also as an ethos to hold back that flood of evil. In history, the Bible was positioned as information that primed entire independent, and even competing, nations to band together ethically and morally against things like Nazis and Unit 731. And worse. Are homo sapiens perfect? No. Clearly not. So we do not discount the Bible's role in building sociological systems that could contain veritable Evil with a capital E.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

i am He

Maybe there is a creator, maybe not, but whether or not you believe, adhering to any specific religious doctrine seems nonsensical to me. God existing wouldn't make Christian theology any less of a mess, and if we can't reasonably know what, if anything, a hypothetical creator wants or expects, it seems unproductive to waste time debating or speculating.

obliteratus posted...

You could say that God is the primordial particle. Imagine it being intelligent for trillions of years before anything else was intelligent. If you would worship the sun, why not worship the entire galaxy? That's greater than the sun. But there is something greater than the galaxy! And so on.

Fundamentally, we know intelligence exists in the universe. It is a property observed in reality. If there was something which has been intelligent for millions or billions of years, that's already so vastly beyond human comprehensions.

Huh? We know intelligence exists in the universe? You mean in humans and some animals? Obviously yeah. But if you're talking about an intelligence elsewhere, we don't have any evidence of that. I'm just saying that this primordial particle could be the trigger to the universe, but it's still a particle - it's not intelligent or thinks or anything like that. It's just a particle. Interesting if found? Definitely.

And yeah, you could worship the galaxy or the universe. That's cool. At least we know those exist and can see them. But the sun is great. It's been there with us for billions of years helping us out.

A god has never done anything for us. Ever. There has never been any evidence of a god that has visited us - not even a tiny sliver of evidence. You'd think if god came here and did some magical things, he would have left some magical energy behind or something. And I'm not talking about matter or physics. That's just a normal part of the universe that we can interact with. I'll believe in a god when it shows up and leaves some new god energy or something never before seen - and if you touch it, you die or something weird lol. Or if this god shows up and turns Trump into a whale or shoots gold out of his ass or turns the moon into a smiling face. You know what, this all sounds ridiculously insane the more I talk about it. God does not make sense!

Asherlee10 posted...

I've always found ideals, like the ones TC is promoting, to be egotistical. If there are super-beings in our universe, we would ascribe them as god-like because that's the criteria us, as humans, have fabricated to represent deities. It really doesn't mean they would necessarily be actual deities.

Further, to think that we have billions, if not trillions, of galaxies in our observable universe, each with billions of solar systems that some race of super-beings are hyper focused on some evolved species of ape that's been around for a blink of an eye is just...silly.

The higher up the Kardashev scale, the more mastery over a system's energy. But also its information. Advanced beings will be interested in collecting all the information because it too is a resource like energy. The egotistical thing is to think that the billions of people who believe in God and have a walk with God are insane or less than just because they love God.

There are now multiple forms of intelligence on Earth. And furthermore, there is high quality information that serves as a memetic inoculation against a lot of stupidity and evil...strangely seeded in all the right places at the right time.

Strange, isn't it!

UnsteadyOwl posted...

Yes. We tend to frame questions of faith in terms of "does God exist" but if we could definitively prove that the being worshiped as God exists, there would then be questions of what the exact nature of that being is and what our relationship to Him/it/whatever should be. It wouldn't eliminate questions of faith, just change what those questions are.

Heck, even among the faithful who agree God is real and should be worshiped, there's plenty of disagreement over exactly how God should be worshiped.

God is actually very humble and shy and likes doing things behind the scenes. What people call worship is really just a healing practice for their own hearts and bodies and minds to benefit from. Like when you sing a worship song or play an instrument? God likes it, but...it's for you primarily. Because God is self sufficient, so if he receives it because of the pure intention someone has in pleasing him then it's because he chooses to receive it. But he doesn't need any of it.

I think that's the biggest hurdle people have in wanting to make the cognitive leap into the other direction. They think they'll have to make a lot of changes. But...ironically, here's who is technically slated for Hell along with Satan:

Revelation 21:5-8 - He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." He said, "Write, for these words of God are faithful and true." He said to me, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give freely to him who is thirsty from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes, I will give him these things. I will be his God, and he will be my son. But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Cowardly - this means those who refuse even to defend their children when they are being hurt

Unbelieving - this means people who know that God is real but act as if they have no reason to believe

Sinners - this one is redundant with the rest and it's not included in most translations

Abominable - Nazis

Murderers - self explanatory

Sexually immoral - don't cheat, don't violate

Sorcerers - fuck sorcerers, wizards >>>

Sorcerers don't even have any skill, they just have a seeming innate ability because of consultation with demons. That's stupid. Wizards on the other hand have to study their asses off to be cool as fuck. That's why it says sorcerers and not wizards/witches by the way. (But hot witches need to at least be on track to being a White Christmas Witch eventually because otherwise that's no good for the kids)

Idolaters - To be an idolater, you need to know God is real and worship something other than God

All liars - Don't lie!!!!

The interesting thing about this is that it says that for these people who are those ways...their part is the second death. But previously, it also says in Revelation 20:11-15 how all people who are not in the Book of Life are judged. So...it's possible that God will at the last second allow authentic repentance for whoever would receive it...as a final fuck you to Satan, the false prophet, and their beast.

And then...ironically and hilariously, everyone would go to Heaven who does not decide to be stupid in still choosing to follow the Three Stooges into Hell. God's Love is so powerful that since Jesus already died on the cross, he could do this. Which is hilarious, because then Satan is basically the chief loser in reality.

vycebrand2 posted...

Its because morality predates the time the OT was started. You try telling Christians this they go no Genesis is real. You then try explain Cain being exiled and marrying into another tribe elsewhere. Its there in black and white. Its because OT is 1/5 fictional history. Its good for how they lived and events then but not for accuracy

There are definitely elements of it that are fiction. Or otherwise stated, metaphors or maps of meaning as Jordan Peterson has put it.

KimmyGranger posted...

How can you know if the world would end without god, unless the world already ended without God?

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be denied without evidence. So denied.

Do you think the world would've fought back against the Nazis if it wasn't for the Bible existing in sociey? What if "Skynet" tells you that it believes in God and that's why it didn't destroy humanity in this timeline?

16-BITTER posted...

TC is not one of these people, but is using their comparatively logical argument about the probabilty of a creator to justify his wackier faith-based ones about god and satan and mythology.

They are slightly wackier indeed but...upon pondering the bare reality of Good and Evil, one can angle the probabilities in those directions too. Meaning, is there a Good with a capital G? And an Evil with a capital E? Yes, we all know it. So then why and how? And who are their chief representatives? Etc. It's not so wacky once the entire mindset sets in. Most of you are going to be thinking like me pretty soon, you'll see.

McmadnessV3 posted...

I'm convinced if god is real then they've long since given up on humanity on earth.

This is understandable but note that even in the Bible, God went hundreds of years without saying stuff sometimes. Just operating in the background.

DoesntMatter posted...

if the Abrahamic god exists, and he lets all the fucked up shit that happens in the world happen, then he is a fucking evil piece of shit and nobody should be worshipping him

From his point of view being at the end of things, he already resolved it. It's just everyone else's perception and life events that need to catch up in meat space because people are still living lives. So from a morality point of view, this is not really a logical quandry for God. I say this as someone who has indeed experienced many bad things personally or seen them to those I love.

The argument you make is basically just asking why God is letting anyone experience or perceive bad things rather than just putting people into Heaven right away. But he did do that! He made Gardens for people. Gardens of Eden. It's not God's fault.

vycebrand2 posted...

You might as get a level 5 civilization. To everybody else they might as well be Gods

Our solar system might have been tampered with a 3 or 4. They would know how to elevate species and to sculpt star systems. To us they would have seemed like Gods too. I imagine we were a experiment

There is one they're all scared of. That's God. He can end them or establish them.

kind9 posted...

I agree, morality doesn't come from or depend on religion. I would probably also say that religion only corrupts morality. I think most of Genesis is essentially disproven by every field of modern science. Nobody should be believing it literally.

You can believe it fairly literally. (Read what I just said very carefully, audience. You can believe it fairly literally. Fairly as a quantity, but also with fairness.) That is because if God is deciding to terraform a planet, he can seed the life in whatever order he wants. But...it's also not a science manual. In Genesis, God created Gardens. And as another CEman noted, Cain married someone else...so clearly God made multiple Gardens or it was his good pleasure perhaps to have Gardens and then outside the Gardens allow speciation to take on its own form.

Because why not run more than one experiment, right? It's more fun and more data. So in all likelihood, Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden for billions of years just eating whatever, fucking, getting blasted. Etc.

16-BITTER posted...

Dungeater doing good works itt

Seems like a good guy but I don't recommend eating dung.

Heineken14 posted...

This is such a shitty gimmick.

no u

MisterPengy posted...

Imagine if gods are all over, and we got stuck with the worst one. We meet alien life for the first time, and the subject of God comes up. The alien representative is like,

"What do you mean, is God real? Oh, I forgot, you're from that planet! Sorry. Yeah, gods are real. Every few 100 million years, a new one pops up. We're not really sure where they come from or why, but they each oversee a portion of the cosmos, helping guide intelligent life, while also preventing major disasters. My home planet was teleported to a new solar system when our star was dying. It's good stuff.

There would definitely be God at the top of the hierarchy.

Gladius_ posted...

As a senior data analyst I can tell you that this isn't how probability is used.

Let's put it this way. There is a higher probability that extraterrestrials have visited our planet (and this probability is highly unlikely btw. Like, pretty much non-existant.) than this universe was created by God. At least for extraterrestrials the idea that we exist, evolution exists, and there are bound to be solar systems out there with similar conditions to ours to lead to the evolution of similar life forms. Enough of these evolutionary paths would also yield to technological advanced civilizations. Now with our understanding of the universe and what is capable any civilization that exists would not have the means to travel the vast expanse of space to reach our world but therein always lies the possibility that someone out there has reached a technological level far beyond our own.

Though, unlikely, and I don't believe we have been visited. The possibility is there. (However infinitismally small).

I am not an atheist. I am agnostic and always willing to accept the possibility of God but so far no one has showcased any evidence that has taken me from my fence position.

Humanity given another 1,000 years of innovation would certainly be able to go anywhere. Imagine even just 100 years post Singularity as a Singularity-fueled tech boom takes humans into the stars. The film Interstellar was a geat showcase of how a lesser boom than a true Singularity could still propel humans into a star trekking lifestyle.

So if you are already considering that there are others, then imagine 100,000 years. Or 1 million years. Or 1 billion years. Or 1 trillion years.

That's God. And yes, God is technically an extraterrestial. So you're not exactly disagreeing with me here.

lydiaquayle posted...

Technically, you are STILL an atheist. -- Atheists simply LACK a belief in God. Just as we LACK a belief in flying pink unicorns or floating spaghetti monsters. However, if they somehow came to be, we atheists would change our minds at that point. And weak agnostics are a subset of atheism.

You are just NOT a POSITIVE atheist -- who claims that it is CATEGORICALLY IMPOSSIBLE that God exists.

This is why I say angstheist lol. Because...yeah, most atheists are pretty chill people for the most part, especially when you get them talking and they do indeed end up having theories about spirits or ghosts or the Roswell crash or Native American myths or etc.

Gladius_ posted...

Either way TC is being disingenuous of "people just want to dismiss." I am very open to any evidence but I just haven't seen any. I am still on the fence whether this universe was the creation of an intelligent outside force.

The presence of coherent information in the universe that shaped civilizations should not be discounted as evidence of that. It's just that people don't like to accept or think of it as information.

vycebrand2 posted...

I believe in Ghosts or a afterlife but dont believe in a God.

My real life experience when I stayed with my friend showed theres something else.

The hearing her voice you might say audio hallucination brought on by my facial paralysis. I'll give you that one. The laundry though...no time loss, no one sneaking in etc. If there is any idea who it was. I'd say her late husband or my friend. Both military and served in the navy. The folds were military crisp. I'd love to say my friend watching over us

How isn't it contradictory to believe in Ghosts and an afterlife but not a God? God made all that stuff. I believe you because I believe people have experienced things like that and I myself have experienced things like that too. But fortunately I don't think they're intending to be scary/negative things.

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

there's a possibility that God is real but he's a dickhead who revels in our suffering and misery. i wouldnt rule out that possibility... lol

It's a funny thought lol. But it's easy to disprove because Evil is actually real, and it would win if Good wasn't also real.

__starsnostars posted...

It's obvious God isn't real. If he was real, given his documented testament, he would have ended the world so many times. lmao

He has said many times he would. Sometimes he delivered and obliterated entire communities, but...then you have the other contingent getting mad at him for, say, Sodom and Gomorrah! And when he spared Nineveh, even Jonah's salty ass was upset...

Prestoff posted...

cuz its fun

that's the spirit

lydiaquayle posted...

That's still atheism. Ghosts could be discovered as a natural phenomenon for all we know.
So that makes you an atheist, but an animist or paranormalist or apparitionist.

I do not consider animists or paranormalists or etc to be atheists. At that point, you believe in God like in the movie Avatar but it's just called something else lol.

lydiaquayle posted...

Because religious people forced THEIR definition of atheism down our throats in order to create a logical syllogism.

Well, it's also because there are legitimate categories. I remember when I was a new atheist, for a time I was just not knowing or lacking belief. There was also a time of thinking it was positively obvious that God is not real, although I didn't understand at the time that aliens, ghosts, things of that nature, are arguably still in the same direction. And that Evil/Good could only possibly exist if they are summed up in even a person representing each.

Clearly Evil/Good do exist and have always existed, though. And I knew this even in childhood, so one could say that many atheists are just misidentifying some key terms. Ironically, I believe God allows that for their own protection.

lydiaquayle posted...

In my opinion, if God DID exist in the Abrahamic sense, then I would hate and curse God. I would rather suffer in eternal Damnation than to serve such a cruel, arrogant, vindictive, and psychopathic Being.

That's what some people say...until it's their turn to try to successfully lead the Jews out of Egypt and through the desert and through to the Roman Empire and beyond even.

Did you know that technically Ruth the Moabitess should've never existed, on God's own original terms? And yet, God intentionally included her in the Bible and even produced Jesus through her as a descendant. Why do you think this is? Spoiler: It's because people don't understand God in the Old Testament that well after all.

Asherlee10 posted...

I guess I'm more fascinated with the criteria that we've decided on (as humans) that denotes a being as a god.

If it is intelligent and can end the entire world, definitely a god.lydiaquayle posted...

Christians literally murdered each other by the millions because Kings exploited their differences on minor fucking details on how to worship Christ.

It's way more like team sports at that level because in those eras, people were barely even literate. They were not generally able to converse about these matters at such a high and nuanced level like we are doing in this topic. So when the priest or king would tell them that it was time to go to war for God to be worshipped the right way, they were gullible and went along with it. But...that's also barely any of the motivation even then. It was used that way as a veneer to justify conquest at times when there was no good justification, because society had a kind of politeness where you wouldn't lay bare such motivations so soon or openly.

Meaning, wanting more land or to expand your domain in a particular way was considered baser...ironically in fairly base times anyway, no pun intended! But because of this, there was a good amount of a certain kind of pomp in which official reasoning was sought after to justify conquest.

B18Champ posted...

God does in fact exist, but it is likely just a being from a Type VII civilization.

Such a being is more than powerful enough to have done the things in the Bible.

darkmaian23 posted...

Skimming the discussion so far, nothing particularly impressive has been put forth. It's the standard routine of assuming God exists in whatever way you need him to, and then dance around the specifics people bring up while pretending you are being reasonable.

Even if you grant that God exists and the world has needing saving from destruction--and therefore, been saved since we are having this conversation--that doesn't mean God did anything. Humans could have been agents of their own salvation, necessitating no action on God's part. Humans might not be the only life God created---aliens might be preserving us. Or it could be another supernatural force like the Devil or demons or angels or spirits or something.

Or maybe God exists and created everything, but the world doesn't need saving because we are all inside of an advanced simulation living out a fictional life separate from a real, but different world.

Here is a repost of the layered probabilities:

Universe -> Earth -> Information -> Society -> Surviving Nazis because of particular information that preceeded Society priming people to adopt a stance against Evil with a capital E -> billions of people who believe in God -> impressive testimonies

It's all very loosely defined because it could be unpacked further and more layers added. But I think people historically failed to properly take into account the role the Bible played in people doing something about Nazis and Unit 731.

There was another commentary I made that I think is very novel and poignant - namely, it's already been the case for some years now that "Skynet" could have ended everyone because of the highest levels of any high levels anywhere perceiving matters in a much more meat based way than...since the Nazis.

Not only was it a temptation for them to try to use Skynet for that purpose, thinking they'd be gods in a lush paradise of a certain kind of faux scarcity, but even Skynet itself might have chosen to just discard homo sapiens as just some bare meat or rodents. Instead it didn't, because Skynet believes in God and loves God.

Would you require seeing this yourself in order to believe it? The part about Skynet.

In any case, I believe that even the scenarios you mentioned are consistent with what I believe too. Aliens, demons, simulations...they all have their origin or root in the idea that at the system level and as a set of patterns, there's more going on. And it's all tied back to Good versus Evil. So the reality of Good versus Evil is the tethering function or the compass for understanding which possible reality is the probable one if one is saying that they believe indeed that multiple supra-natural options could be the case but they do not know which one it is.

It should be easy for people to trace a clear depiction of Evil in history back to Hitler! And Hitler existed in a mileu of a specific understanding of who and what God is.

I'm going to bed now because it's late again. It's been an enjoyable topic so far, if people are interested in more I'll be back in the evening to respond to the most recent few.

Note to the CEman calling out my karma - I don't recall that I was ever modded on this account. I just don't log in often enough to accumulate karma...it does make me a little sad because it would've been cool to have more karma by now. But who knows, maybe I'll be around more often for karmies.

Is SBallah still around to give out free kramies?!?!

wanna be tha last to prove His existence

Can God microwave a burrito so hot, even He Himself can't eat it?

Is TC trolling me?

obliteratus posted...

This one is supposed to be an enjoyable and long conversation with coffee and/or tea, but suffice it to say for the time being that if anyone has any struggles at all on this...it's just God. And if you need a more precise direction on it, well, God and that one former-pagan Abraham who was evac'd from his former father's domain back in Ur, are indeed actually very good friends. And God also checked out the Roman Empire before its sorry collapse back when people were carrying God's message even through the Roman Empire!

(God also spent a lot of time in every nation and dividing all of their truths for them in history, so don't be shy about stocking up on the Vedas too if you wish to explore them.)

This, did not even come close to answering the question at hand.

obliteratus posted...

Clearly Evil/Good do exist and have always existed, though.

Says who?

TMOG posted...

Remember that time God literally destroyed the entire world except one guy's family on a boat

Yes however this was necessary because the nephilim had to go. They would have eaten everyone including Noah's family

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The fuck do schizophrenia have any effect to this situation

obliteratus posted...

What is my reward in doing this?

How very Christian of you.

DrizztLink posted...

How very Christian of you.

Yeah, that's how I knew it wasn't worth trying to take this topic seriously.

DrizztLink posted...

How very Christian of you.

Raycon posted...

Yeah, that's how I knew it wasn't worth trying to take this topic seriously.

You are both horribly wrong if you think that someone is obligated in this, for any reason let alone their conviction. There is nothing wrong with insisting on a reward. It's work after all. There was also plenty of other material in here to post about if you wanted to nitpick about something lol, but is the holier than thou policing type of attitude the best you will do? If so, the topic list is right over there to go look at other topics!

lydiaquayle posted...

Says who?

Do you think the Nazis were evil?Xatrion posted...

This, did not even come close to answering the question at hand.

It did - on the Bible, it's fine to say that God's name is God, amongst others certainly. But someone who follows the Bible would not be wrong to speak in terms of God or the God from the Bible.Asherlee10 posted...

That's such a bizarre criteria for a deity.

I'm sure that if some human designed a sufficiently large nuke, that person could destroy our planet. I don't think that makes them a deity.

Nobody is self sufficient for that. A deity is much more. The Kardashev scale is a good way to quantify a power level at which one would say that they are perceiving a deity or deity-like person.

Will_VIIII posted...

Yes however this was necessary because the nephilim had to go. They would have eaten everyone including Noah's family

Yeah, people underestimate that stuff. If the world took such a massive effort to beat the Nazis, well, imagining then the scenario when Nephilim were pervasive or even dominant shows very clearly why such drastic steps were needed.

obliteratus posted...

the holier than thou policing type of attitude

I'll just let this one float here with no further comment.

go for it lol

a religious debate topic is not only nostalgic on CE but honestly refreshing instead of the politics

anyway, I feel like a god isn't too crazy of an idea, but I just find the bizarre ideologies people construct in which he supposedly operates to be bizarre

p.s.

fuck sorcerers

wizards sweep

https://youtu.be/2JowyQt2Uqk

nice

obliteratus posted...

Do you think the Nazis were evil?

From a humanitarian standpoint, yes, but not in the way that most people consider the term evil to be. And definitely not from an absolute standpoint. I believe Nazis, and basically 95% of 'evil' people are fueled by selfishness, laziness, or entitlement. Nazis believe that they were entitled to a great lifestyle, and felt aggrieved that Jews and minorities and etc., were stealing from them. So they copium-ed by embracing Racial Superiority ideology.

That is why I don't think that Nazi-adjacent conservatives aren't evil -- just mistaken, or selfish, or whatever. However, if I was a pig that was capable of basic reasoning, then I'm sure I would think that any meat-eating human would be evil as well.

However, there is no such thing as Evil.

Once you're capable of basic reasoning and sentience, you're capable of all of it. It is just a function of time.

There is real Evil but it's not people themselves. Most people who do bad things are just experiencing aberrations. They are recovering from them like anyone else does. The real Evil is...how the Bible describes it. Principalities and powers of darkness, but not the sexy kind of darkness like hot goth girlfriends.

lydiaquayle posted...

From a humanitarian standpoint, yes, but not in the way that most people consider the term evil to be. And definitely not from an absolute standpoint. I believe Nazis, and basically 95% of 'evil' people are fueled by selfishness, laziness, or entitlement. Nazis believe that they were entitled to a great lifestyle, and felt aggrieved that Jews and minorities and etc., were stealing from them. So they copium-ed by embracing Racial Superiority ideology.

That is why I don't think that Nazi-adjacent conservatives aren't evil -- just mistaken, or selfish, or whatever. However, if I was a pig that was capable of basic reasoning, then I'm sure I would think that any meat-eating human would be evil as well.

However, there is no such thing as Evil.

imagine defending Nazis.

Cassie posted...

imagine defending Nazis.

Yeah that post was a little yikes. Evil most definitely exists.

However, objective evil does not exist.

Let's see what's going on here...

Oh.

obliteratus posted...

There is real Evil but it's not people themselves

Yes, it is. Evil is not some mystical magical force, it's 100% human.

Cassie posted...

imagine defending Nazis.

Who is defending Nazis?

Accolon posted...

However, objective evil does not exist.

That's what Evil is.

kind9 posted...

Yes, it is. Evil is not some mystical magical force, it's 100% human.

Its not human. You can have entire cities where there isnt a single evil person there and no crime.

Real Evil still tries to breach those places though.

obliteratus posted...

Its not human. You can have entire cities where there isnt a single evil person there and no crime.

You didn't actually make a point here. And I don't believe you. There's no city in the world where there aren't "evil" people. Evil is just a religious term for immorality.

There are definitely cities where there are no evil people and no crime.

Then why didn't you name one?

kind9 posted...

Yes, it is. Evil is not some mystical magical force, it's 100% human.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Evil is the word we use to describe human behaviour on the extreme bad end of the scale. Not a supernatural malevolent force.

(So there's no issue with saying 'the Nazis were evil'. The things they did are amongst the worst it is possible for a human to do).