Current Events > Is greatest sin of the sequel trilogy character assassnation of Luke? (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

the idea that Luke would have a vision of Kylo on the dark side doing evil things, then actually ignite his lightsaber and contemplate killing Kylo while he slept is so mind numbingly stupid, after we saw Luke not give up on his father for an entire movie, to the point of throwing down his weapon and saying kill me then dad, I will not fight you because I know there is still good in you. Makes ZERO sense

Thoughts?

Kinda feel they may have a point. What made Luke who is he is was seeing the light in people even if said person was literally Darth Vader scourge of the universe.

At least this topic brings a new angle to this argument we've all heard 5000 times and won't just be a retread of the same debate we're already tired of having

I feel like that is the common sentiment of the ST's haters yes.

it's been like 8 years man

Nah It assassinated every orignal hero.

Luke. lets the galaxy fall to tyrany cause can't be bothered to stop it.

Leia, complete and utter failure, the Empire is back and more powerful than ever under her leadership.

Han, back to a useless smuggler who can't even do a job anymore.

Chewbacca, glorified taxi driver.

The sequels simply tell us the galaxy is fucked and would of been better off if our childhood heroes had never been born.

I don't disagree, but there was also what, something like 20-25 years between Return and when that happened? People change. Now that said, if you're going to change a character THAT much you should probably show what caused it.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

it's been like 8 years man

if I were to make a thread "is the last jedi the greatest star wars film of the franchise!?!"

would you chime in it has been 8 years?

hmm

It's a dumb complaint to me. Luke was shocked for a split second and recovered himself before he actually did anything. That ain't character assassination.

K181 posted...

It's a dumb complaint to me. Luke was shocked for a split second and recovered himself before he actually did anything. That ain't character assassination.

If there's one thing Luke is well known for in the original trilogy it's being in complete and total control of his emotions at all times and never letting them slip out for even a second

He coulda been bangin' Mara Jade

WingsOfGood posted...

Thoughts?

Kinda feel they may have a point. What made Luke who is he is was seeing the light in people even if said person was literally Darth Vader scourge of the universe.

*Luke literally 30 seconds earlier*
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/23514c0c.jpg

The greatest sin of the sequel trilogy is absolutely "oh yeah, Palpatine's back because we said so, lmao"

Luke as this stoic ultimate jedi master that just speaks in quotes about the force was such a boring character and I'm glad the last jedi went for something different.

Then the mandalorian brought that original Luke idea back anyway.

Anyway none of the OG characters resembled their originals. Even if I like TLJ doing something different with Luke, I still can't recognise his portrayal as the same Luke from the original trilogy. And that goes for Han and Leia too. Lando isn't too egregious but he also barely says or does anything.

Just read Shadow of the Sith if you want Jedi Master Luke who is still similar to his OT self. It's a good book. Also Lando is the other main character.

WingsOfGood posted...

if I were to make a thread "is the last jedi the greatest star wars film of the franchise!?!"

would you chime in it has been 8 years?

hmm

Yeah it's a thoroughly exhausted topic on a subpar movie subsumed by culture war garbage debates online. There is truly nothing left to say about it. Move on idk dawg

The greatest sin is they clearly had no idea where they were going with it from the onset and it's mostly just a retread.

Out of the three movies, I have the unpopular opinion of thinking The Last Jedi is the best of the three. It did kind of character assassinate Luke, so I understand why so many hate it. Overall the trilogy is just bad. They should have tried to rework the heir to the empire books.

The biggest sin for me is that it makes the OT completely meaningless. The Empire is still around albeit under a different name and theyre even more of a threat than before. Palpatine is still alive because oops it turns out Anakin didnt bring balance to the force and simply killed a Palpatine clone. These poor rebels have been fighting this war for like 60 years now if you count the time between III and IV and they have literally nothing to show for it.

Now when I watch Return of the Jedi the celebration at the end feels completely unearned because now I know they didnt actually win anything

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Yeah it's a thoroughly exhausted topic on a subpar movie subsumed by culture war garbage debates online. There is truly nothing left to say about it. Move on idk dawg

I seen those topics made and don't see such complaints in them

BlueBoy675 posted...

The biggest sin for me is that it makes the OT completely meaningless. The Empire is still around albeit under a different name and theyre even more of a threat than before. Palpatine is still alive because oops it turns out Anakin didnt bring balance to the force and simply killed a Palpatine clone. These poor rebels have been fighting this war for like 60 years now if you count the time between III and IV and they have literally nothing to show for it.

Now when I watch Return of the Jedi the celebration at the end feels completely unearned because now I know they didnt actually win anything

The old EU also brought Palpatine back from the dead as well. And the Empire came back a couple times in that too.

BlueBoy675 posted...

Now when I watch Return of the Jedi the celebration at the end feels completely unearned because now I know they didnt actually win anything

no you can't do this to Yub Nub

BlueBoy675 posted...

The biggest sin for me is that it makes the OT completely meaningless. The Empire is still around albeit under a different name and theyre even more of a threat than before.

Imagine if there was a real-life parallel we could compare this to lmao

ReiRei89 posted...

The old EU also brought Palpatine back from the dead as well. And the Empire came back a couple times in that too.

Yeah and it was dumb there too

TMOG posted...
Imagine if there was a real-life parallel we could compare this to lmao

Yeah imagine :(

Its greatest sin is TFA immediately going "the empire is back and the republic is now back to being rebels". Every issue with its treatment of the old cast and how uninteresting the plot was stems from that single decision practically rendering the OT as inconsequential filler

bringing Palpatine back isn't a sin (well a clone, the original kinda is)

and new Empire like entity isn't either

Palpatine just randomly showing up with the line basically being "idk who knows dark side bullshit get over stupid fans!" is a sin

new Empire basically already taking over everything the moment they showed up again is a sin, the rebel alliance should have been too powerful at the point such that the New Order should have been emerging not in charge

like I get that supposedly they didn't just show up overnight but watching the movies you would not be able to tell that, which is a sin

first movie should have showed them gaining power

havean776 posted...

Nah It assassinated every orignal hero.

Luke. lets the galaxy fall to tyrany cause can't be bothered to stop it.

Leia, complete and utter failure, the Empire is back and more powerful than ever under her leadership.

Han, back to a useless smuggler who can't even do a job anymore.

Chewbacca, glorified taxi driver.

The sequels simply tell us the galaxy is fucked and would of been better off if our childhood heroes had never been born.

I kind of feel like Yoda and Obi-Wan also did the second one, one of my major problems with the original trilogy and prequels. Yoda is so powerful, fights Palpatine once, barely loses, and shrugs and goes and hides for decades?

Jedi give up too easy!

WingsOfGood posted...

bringing Palpatine back isn't a sin

and new Empire like entity isn't either

Palpatine just randomly showing up with the line basically being "idk who knows dark side bullshit get over stupid fans!" is a sin

new Empire basically already taking over everything the moment they showed up again is a sin, the rebel alliance should have been too powerful at the point such that the New Order should have been emerging not in charge

like I get that supposedly they didn't just show up overnight but watching the movies you would not be able to tell that, which is a sin

The biggest issue is the fact they had no plan for tying a trilogy together and just let the directors do whatever they wanted. If the ST were made under a unified vision then The First Order and Palps return prob would have been much better.

Westernwolf4 posted...

I kind of feel like Yoda and Obi-Wan also did the second one, one of my major problems with the original trilogy and prequels. Yoda is so powerful, fights Palpatine once, barely loses, and shrugs and goes and hides for decades?

Jedi give up too easy!

To be fair Yoda's species is pretty rare from what I can tell so it'd be hard for him to get back to Coruscant and fight Sidious again without basically everyone recognizing him.

yeah, the struggle of defending a newly built system that they had to fight tooth and nail for, and the problems that can arise from establishing it could've been a genuinely interesting angle for things. But instead we were set back to big bad empire vs underdog rebels once more

BlueBoy675 posted...

The biggest sin for me is that it makes the OT completely meaningless. The Empire is still around albeit under a different name and theyre even more of a threat than before. Palpatine is still alive because oops it turns out Anakin didnt bring balance to the force and simply killed a Palpatine clone. These poor rebels have been fighting this war for like 60 years now if you count the time between III and IV and they have literally nothing to show for it.

Now when I watch Return of the Jedi the celebration at the end feels completely unearned because now I know they didnt actually win anything

Wait, I thought it was the original Palpatine that Anakin killed and the one in Episode 9 was the clone?

HighSeraph posted...

The greatest sin is they clearly had no idea where they were going with it from the onset and it's mostly just a retread.

This is how I feel. I think they could have told a lot of great stories with these interesting new characters, even one with a deeply traumatized Luke Skywalker. They just needed to sit down after buying Star Wars and map out a plan for the franchise.

Instead different people were just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks, until we got to Palpatine clone for some reason I guess.

ReiRei89 posted...

The old EU also brought Palpatine back from the dead as well. And the Empire came back a couple times in that too.

The cool part about the EU is that since it's not really official, you can ignore the parts that are dumb. And there were a lot of dumb EU stories.

Just blame Mon Mothma for disarming the Republic

HighSeraph posted...

To be fair Yoda's species is pretty rare from what I can tell so it'd be hard for him to get back to Coruscant and fight Sidious again without basically everyone recognizing him.

Fair, but I think in the ensuing decades he could have figured out the logistics of that. It also didnt seem to bother him much when he was tearing through every obstacle on the way to the throne room when every guard was looking for Jedi after Order 66. He waved his hand and the certainly elite guards protecting Palpatine were scattered like leaves in the wind.

Not saying it would have been easy. Just: Maybe take another shot at defeating the Empire over 20 years?

"Somehow, Palpatine returned," is a line so criminally bad and insulting to the audience that I consistently remember it being the opening words of the text crawl even though that's not how it happened.

It forms the definitive stink lines over the turd sandwich that is the sequel trilogy

ReiRei89 posted...

The biggest issue is the fact they had no plan for tying a trilogy together and just let the directors do whatever they wanted. If the ST were made under a unified vision then The First Order and Palps return prob would have been much better.

PT and ST feels like complete opposites on a lot of stuff when it comes to creation.

PT had one director which had what it seemed complete control, so there were no one to stop him on his bad ideas. (George Lucas syndrome)

ST had multiple producers doing whatever they fuck they please and it made no cohesion and structure.

PT seemed to be aging better than ST because of all his many, many flaws, it seems to actually have a story going.

Yeah they butchered Star Wars like Adi Shankar butchers video games, lol

BuzzKilljoy posted...

"Somehow, Palpatine returned," is a line so criminally bad and insulting to the audience that I consistently remember it being the opening words of the text crawl even though that's not how it happened.

It forms the definitive stink lines over the turd sandwich that is the sequel trilogy

yet fans are gaslit into thinking they are the ones no being respectful

012yArthur0 posted...

PT and ST feels like complete opposites on a lot of stuff when it comes to creation.

PT had one director which had what it seemed complete control, so there were no one to stop him on his bad ideas. (George Lucas syndrome)

ST had multiple producers doing whatever they fuck they please and it made no cohesion and structure.

PT seemed to be aging better than ST because of all his many, many flaws, it seems to actually have a story going.

Yep. I wouldnt call the prequels good movies, but I respect them more because George at least tried to tell original story. The prequels are full of great ideas, but the execution is off. Stuff like TCW shows that the prequels did have some good stuff going for them. Like I said, great ideas but bad execution

The sequels had bad ideas with even worse execution

My biggest disappointment is never greeting any type of Han, Luke, and Leia reunion. Disney absolutely wasted their chance there.

WingsOfGood posted...

yet fans are gaslit into thinking they are the ones no being respectful

Naw, plenty of fans are disrespectful. There's no issue with disliking any of the movies, but a rather loud contingent of fans used that dislike as a reason to be assholes to the actors who were in them.

The sin was committed by fans for not bothering to explore and understand this character for 35 years and missing rhe point.

Many such cases. See rorschach.

Celebrating end of Imperial Empire: ROTJ

Inviting New Order very next chapter.

K181 posted...

It's a dumb complaint to me. Luke was shocked for a split second and recovered himself before he actually did anything. That ain't character assassination.

He barely recovered. He had his saber at his nephews head. Its completely ridiculous

2001mark posted...

Celebrating end of Imperial Empire: ROTJ

Inviting New Order very next chapter.

The Empire was 'defeated' twice in the span of one trilogy lmao. It was never under assumption they were completely gone.

*throws a chair without even looking where it's going*

Luke being overwhelmed by his emotions (which were being influenced by Sidious) for a split second is ENTIRELY within his character. Also a reminder that within the Force, Jedi don't just have a "vague feeling of things", they literally see the future. He SAW what was going to happen to his friends on Cloud City all the way over on Dagobah.

Emotion combined with the fact that he does literally SEE THE FUTURE (one which has Ben becoming an even worse threat to the universe than Sidious) overwhelming his logic for a brief moment? Well written, nuanced characters do not just overcome all their quirks and flaws and become infallible.

Luke's bad, but never having Han, Leia, and Luke together again....

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

*throws a chair without even looking where it's going*

Edit: On a second thought, I don't know if it is moddable to put Boondocks clips.

So I'll just go with OH MY GOD A CHAIR

boomgetchopped3 posted...

He barely recovered. He had his saber at his nephews head. Its completely ridiculous

Not really. The flashback from Bens point of view showed him swinging it, but Lukes flashback showed him draw the lightsaber back, immediately catch himself before he even came close to swinging it, and Ben reacting with the assumption that Luke was about to swing.