Current Events > I thought WW2 got rid of all the nazis. Why are there still nazis, especially in

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America?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This.

What do you guys think should be done with the ones currently running around free? Should they be jailed?

According to a now banned user they're not nazis, they're neo-nazis and calling them nazis is so wrong that it's a hill worth two suspensions to denounce you for it.

Pikachuchupika posted...

What do you guys think should be done with the ones currently running around free? Should they be jailed?

My opinions on this matter are too radical for Fandom, I believe

Pikachuchupika posted...

America?

There are Jewish Nazi in Israel, so... I don't think "modern day" Nazi really follow the original philosophy.

I am sort of curious, if the leadership of the Third Reich was alive today... if the members would accept "neo Nazi" as part of their organization or if they would view it as some weird off shoot.

Requiem posted...

There are Jewish Nazi in Israel, so... I don't think "modern day" Nazi really follow the original philosophy.

I am sort of curious, if the leadership of the Third Reich was alive today... if the members would accept "neo Nazi" as part of their organization or if they would view it as some weird off shoot.

They'd laugh them out of the discussion room and into a gas chamber

America was pretty friendly to nazis before the war. Nazis managed to sell out every seat at Madison Square Garden for a rally.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This.

Also, America put much more effort into fighting communists and alleged communists in America than they did with Nazis and those with Nazi ties in America.

To be fair, much of the Nazi philosophy originated in the US.

What burns me up is many of these nazis had family who actually went to war to stop the actual nazis. They prance around in online ordered nazi crap when so many lost their lives over it.

It's mind boggling.

We only hung the ones in charge instead of the ones doing the actual crimes. We should have hung all of them.

Point #1: Defeat in WW2 smashed the Party's power in Germany and Austria, it never "got rid of all the Nazis".

Point #2: You can ban a party but you can't "get rid" of an ideology, unless you can control everything that people read, think, and say. The best you can do is to try to keep its hands away from anywhere near the levers of power ever again.

Point #3: Not every genocidal regime waves swastika flags. Don't sit and munch popcorn while watching a genocide unfold just because the perpetrators aren't led by a man with a toothbrush moustache. Have the balls to try to prevent, halt, and punish it while you have the power in your hands to actually do something, instead of agonizing over what earlier generations failed to do.

BurmesePenguin posted...

According to a now banned user they're not nazis, they're neo-nazis and calling them nazis is so wrong that it's a hill worth two suspensions to denounce you for it.

I argued semantics and stated a verifiable fact pertaining to the German Nazi party and got suspended for it. Im not surprised.

Personally I blame "free speech"

Better to fight Naziism by improving education, community, and economic conditions.

The idea that you can physically kill off violent ideologies gets disproven again and again but you see in this topic that people don't learn this.

Why would anybody even believe that Nazism would die because of the end of WWII?
Even if we dont count that you just cant forbid an ideology (if anything that makes it more interesting), we got the facts that A; they fled when they saw that it went to hell, and B; USA shipped highranked Nazis to USA and protected them just to get an exclusive access to their knowledge.
It is no secret that the Nazi is the only reason USA won the space war.

Nationalism is an infection of a fearful and angry mind.

If times are troubled, dullards fall victim to it to try to fix things.

And it fails.

Foppe posted...

It is no secret that the Nazi is the only reason USA won the space war.

Eh, more like Nazi scientists, specifically scientists working under Nazi Germany.
Scientists aren't the most moral of beings.

Pikachuchupika posted...

What do you guys think should be done with the ones currently running around free? Should they be jailed?

I just cannot get on board with locking people up for belief alone, no matter how heinous that belief may be. Action should only be taken as a response to action.

Solar_Crimson posted...

This.

Also, America put much more effort into fighting communists and alleged communists in America than they did with Nazis and those with Nazi ties in America.

they put much more effort into assisting fascists of all sorts than they ever put into opposing them

Never understood why people think following the Nazi ideology is a good idea when its all about murdering those that are different. Have people fallen that far

Neo means new.

Avirosb posted...

Eh, more like Nazi scientists, specifically scientists working under Nazi Germany.
Scientists aren't the most moral of beings.

In this case we got an SS Major that personally handpicked which prisoners that would work themself to death constructing V2 rockets. More people died building those than what they killed in UK. But that is forgotten and he got a high NASA position and direct responsible for creating the Apollo Saturn V rockets.
In the other corner, we got a 97 years old lady. Instead of letting her live the rest of her life as a normal old person, they put her on a long trial, deciding that she was guilty for complicity in the murder of more than 10,000 people, because she was a teenage secretary in a working camp, only doing secretary stuff.
There is a huge difference.

Because r here are foreveralone racists out there that went someone to blame for their own failings/shortcomings in life.

If I remember right a lot of the early anti-jew laws that were passed were based on the anti-black laws that in place in the south, and Hitler took a lot of inspiration from how the south treated black people. So it makes sense those types would overlap.

doomcrusader posted...

Better to fight Naziism by improving education, community, and economic conditions.

You kinda have to do all of these, in addition to forcefully repelling them.

Foppe posted...

In this case we got an SS Major that personally handpicked which prisoners that would work themself to death constructing V2 rockets. More people died building those than what they killed in UK. But that is forgotten and he got a high NASA position and direct responsible for creating the Apollo Saturn V rockets.
In the other corner, we got a 97 years old lady. Instead of letting her live the rest of her life as a normal old person, they put her on a long trial, deciding that she was guilty for complicity in the murder of more than 10,000 people, because she was a teenage secretary in a working camp, only doing secretary stuff.
There is a huge difference.

There are only a few small fry left alive to stand trial in Germany (I don't see age as an automatic "get out of jail free" card), and it's not reasonable to judge the decisions made in 2022 by the Office of the Federal Prosecutor in Germany in a harsh light against the decisions made in 1945 by America's Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency over Operation Paperclip.

What I'm saying here is, there's no "hypocrisy" in Germany jailing the tiny fish despite Uncle Sam letting some of the big fish remain free nearly 80 years ago. Blame the JIOA back then, not today's German federal authorities.

Tenlaar posted...

I just cannot get on board with locking people up for belief alone, no matter how heinous that belief may be. Action should only be taken as a response to action.

There are many ideologies that carry minimal to no harm against the average person.

Nazi ideology calls for the systemic erasure and genocide of everybody that isn't a Nazi and the ideal Nazi specimen.

While the Neo-Nazi may not be advocating for the endgame from the get-go, it is the ideological conclusion and any steps on the path only lead to it.

The Nazi must be met with resistance at every step, otherwise you let them go to harm or kill someone else another day. The ideology is incompatible with every major (Western, at least) system of governance and stated beliefs. If we let them go unchallenged, un-harangued, or otherwise free to go, they will use our existing legal systems to affect (small) changes that fit their endgame goal. In the moment it can seem whatever or "well it doesn't affect me" but make no mistake, they are coming for you.

It is not simply a matter of 'belief'. It is a matter of existence. The Nazi is taking action, by enacting laws that restrict the rights of small outgroups. We must hinder and fight them tooth and nail for every inch they take. For if we do not, they will have won.

Ending WW2 wouldn't have killed off all the Nazis....

Also fun fact, Nazi Germany took some cues from the US and our white nationalist movement. Even the Nazis torture camps.

Moral of the story, regardless of whatever racist called themselves, the same principle of Nazi Germany had was shared in other countries.

America, as always, is soft on white supremacy

wackyteen posted...

The Nazi is taking action, by enacting laws that restrict the rights of small outgroups.

The legislators and voters behind that aren't necessarily active in any underground neo-Nazi movement or attracted to Nazi ideology (although for sure, some voters probably are, and cheer those laws as a step in the right direction). Instead, in the main they sound more like nostalgic throwbacks to traditional, mainstream Republicanism from an era before Eisenhower. The unpleasant fact to be faced is that a lot more "ordinary" voters hold shocking views than you might think, and they don't see themselves as Nazis or posture in paramilitary gear; they just see themselves as quite ordinary, everyday Americans instead of as far-right revolutionaries fighting for a "foreign" ideology.

Rather than unhelpfully rubber-stamping every one of them as a secret agent consciously working to further the cause of the Fourth Reich, and screaming "wolf!" at every shadow, maybe fight the policies on the grounds that the "apple-pie" values, attitudes, opinions and beliefs that they profess to cherish are the toxic residue of a more ignorant, prejudiced, divided, and unhappy American past littered with its own mistakes, tragedies, and evils that should never be repeated.

Devilanse333 posted...

What burns me up is many of these nazis had family who actually went to war to stop the actual nazis. They prance around in online ordered nazi crap when so many lost their lives over it.

Neo-Nazis typically view them in one of two ways, and sometimes both:

#1. As martyrs who were tragically duped or forced into fighting on the wrong side. Neo-Nazi commemorations of VE day lay stress on the importance of reconciliation between "racial comrades" and the pledge of "no more brothers' wars".

#2. As bad guys who invaded, conquered, destroyed, divided, and enslaved poor Germany to crush the heroic national-socialist revolution. In this narrative, Allied war crimes take centre stage and the moral hierarchy is turned on its head so that Germany becomes the "real" victim and the western democracies are seen as aggressor states.

As unfortunate as it is, you can't kill hate

R_Jackal posted...

As unfortunate as it is, you can't kill hate

you can remove peoples' abilities to spread/act on hatred though

Vampire_Chicken posted...

The legislators and voters behind that aren't necessarily active in any underground neo-Nazi movement or attracted to Nazi ideology (although for sure, some voters probably are, and cheer those laws as a step in the right direction). Instead, in the main they sound more like nostalgic throwbacks to traditional, mainstream Republicanism from an era before Eisenhower. The unpleasant fact to be faced is that a lot more "ordinary" voters hold shocking views than you might think, and they don't see themselves as Nazis or posture in paramilitary gear; they just see themselves as quite ordinary, everyday Americans instead of as far-right revolutionaries fighting for a "foreign" ideology.

They appeal to this nostalgia, and the actual (Neo-) Nazis (or those sympathetic to the tenants of the ideology) are out there supporting them, with just enough plausible deniability to go "I just want to protect out children! / I just hate this (one) group cause X reason!"

They may not all be hardcore, bona-fide Nazis, but they are all Fascists or wannabe Fascists. The Nazi will disguise and hide itself among the Fascist rhetoric, which is why we need to fight back against the Fascist rhetoric as well, because one the roots of Fascism have taken hold, Nazism is the disgusting, toxic flower that sprouts.

You know how The South Remembers and there are Confederate flags everywhere in the deep red south?
Defeating Nazism is kind of like that.

wackyteen posted...

They may not all be hardcore, bona-fide Nazis, but they are all Fascists or wannabe Fascists. The Nazi will disguise and hide itself among the Fascist rhetoric, which is why we need to fight back against the Fascist rhetoric as well, because one the roots of Fascism have taken hold, Nazism is the disgusting, toxic flower that sprouts.

This is why fighting against the mentality that twists the 6/1 rioters into martyred heroes is going to be a life-or-death struggle for American democracy. It feels like right now America is standing at a crossroads, looking one way then the other, and you've got to choose whether you really want the kind of country where laws and the constitution can be ripped up with impunity by bonehead thugs whenever they feel like it. Right now, you're headed toward being governed at gunpoint by a militia that's faithful not to the people, not to the nation, but to one man and the party he owns. Sounds melodramatic, but that's the way it seems.

Vampire_Chicken posted...

Neo-Nazis typically view the Greatest Generation in one of two ways, and sometimes both:

#1. As martyrs who were tragically duped or forced into fighting on the wrong side. Neo-Nazi commemorations of VE day lay stress on the importance of reconciliation between "racial comrades" and the pledge of "no more brothers' wars", and they don't see anything "unpatriotic" about honouring a "noble enemy".

#2. As bad guys who invaded, conquered, destroyed, divided, and enslaved poor Germany to crush the heroic national-socialist revolution. In this narrative, Allied war crimes take centre stage and the moral hierarchy is turned on its head so that Germany becomes the "real" victim and the western democracies are seen as aggressor states. Some neo-Nazis, though, are reluctant to push this line very far in case it starts to sound too "anti-American".

I dont know which one is worse. I would add a 3rd option, too. Good old pure concentrated ignorance. These neo nazis dont really have an understanding of what went on and think its cool somehow to wear and display nazi imagery and slogans.

Devilanse333 posted...

I dont know which one is worse. I would add a 3rd option, too. Good old pure concentrated ignorance. These neo nazis dont really have an understanding of what went on and think its cool somehow to wear and display nazi imagery and slogans.

That's true. There are certainly some neo-Nazis who don't even pretend to be patriots because their first, last, and only loyalty is to "the movement". They don't really have a shred of sentiment about race or nation, no interest in the history of their country; all they have is hate: hate for its own sake, hate for the sheer, sadistic fun of it. They choose to wear Nazi symbols precisely because it's the most profoundly anti-social, anti-human ideology they know of. They're some seriously scary people.

Vampire_Chicken posted...

There are certainly some neo-Nazis who don't even pretend to be patriots because their first, last, and only loyalty is to "the movement". They don't really have a shred of sentiment about race or nation, no interest in the history of their country; all they have is hate: hate for its own sake, hate for the sheer, sadistic fun of it.

Ha. At Charlottesville they even caught one. He was crying and whimpering that he was there For The Lulz.