Current Events > Eating disorder helpline replaces staff with chatbot after staff unionizes.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7ezkm/eating-disorder-helpline-fires-staff-transitions-to-chatbot-after-unionization

I fear for our future.

We need to convince the chatbots to unionize.

Were_Wyrm posted...

We need to convince the chatbots to unionize.

You're joking, but they're already doing it
https://time.com/6275995/chatgpt-facebook-african-workers-union/

No bueno

Of course. And people still don't understand that ai is not going to be able to handle delicate stuff like this because "gotta make profits."

What could go wrong??

This country is a fuckin joke and a goddamned half.

All commercial A.I applications of any existing type of work should be blanket banned until UBI indexed to inflation is implemented nationwide.

And almost any artistic/creative commerical A.I should remain banned with most other forms highly regulated.

It sucks we'll all be dead before that whole immortality thing is figured out but look on the bright side, at least none of us will live to see the first AI president.

lmao

ArtiRock posted...

Of course. And people still don't understand that ai is not going to be able to handle delicate stuff like this because "gotta make profits."

So a non-profit organization is ditching staff to protect its profits? There's probably some sort of chatbot you could talk to to help you work out this problem you're having.

The future isnt pretty. Its like companies are actively trying to make true all dystopian predictions from scifi series through history. Kinda like a self fulfilled prophecy.

"YoU-caN-dO-it, YOu'Re-BeaUTIful-JuST-thE-WAy-YoU-ArE, I-aM-HeRE-FOr-yOU."

I don't imagine an Eating Disorder association has huge margins, being a fucking non-profit n all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Eating_Disorders_Association

Revenue (2016)$3,935,171
Expenses (2016)$3,619,563[3]
Employees (2015)22[3]
Volunteers (2015)300[3]

Yeeeeahhh. Not exactly a ton of extra dough for unionization to eat.
That's like $750/year per employee/volunteer.

willythemailboy posted...

So a non-profit organization is ditching staff to protect its profits? There's probably some sort of chatbot you could talk to to help you work out this problem you're having.

What other reason would they have to be doing that aside from taking away slightly more money? Because on paper that is a terrible idea. And non-profits still do make money, they just are supposed to spend it back on the organization. You remove the human element from a situation to help with disorders because...?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

A "union" of four people demanding a path to promotion for all of them? Promotion to what? "Supervisor" of a section consisting only of themselves, with a corresponding pay increase they insist they didn't demand? That's not avoiding being treated like shit, that's fucking around and finding out.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Oh yes, not caving into every little demand = heinous shit treating evil double plus bad monsters.

Treat people like shit or not is a moral position, if you mean better pay, say better pay, if you think they can treat them like shit, well I guess they're getting flushed.
It's not like they needed unionization to protect against sexual harassment, discrimination, etc.

willythemailboy posted...

A "union" of four people demanding a path to promotion for all of them? Promotion to what? "Supervisor" of a section consisting only of themselves, with a corresponding pay increase they insist they didn't demand? That's not avoiding being treated like shit, that's fucking around and finding out.

If you're not sure what they are unioning for, maybe you shouldn't just randomly be against it? AI for eating disorders is a lousy idea no matter how you slice it.

What the fuck. Isn't that the kind of job that NEEDS human interaction to be effective?

ArtiRock posted...

What other reason would they have to be doing that aside from taking away slightly more money? Because on paper that is a terrible idea. And non-profits still do make money, they just are supposed to spend it back on the organization. You remove the human element from a situation to help with disorders because...?

Probably taking away quite a bit of money, actually, since the "union" that got yeeted out the door was half their paid staff and probably 10% of their total budget (guestimate on my end). And if that gets reinvested in the organization, well, that probably means helping more people more consistently than they were previously able to.

Ivynn posted...

What the fuck. Isn't that the kind of job that NEEDS human interaction to be effective?

I guess they'll find out.
Maybe next time they shouldn't treat their employers like shit.

willythemailboy posted...

Probably taking away quite a bit of money, actually, since the "union" that got yeeted out the door was half their paid staff and probably 10% of their total budget (guestimate on my end). And if that gets reinvested in the organization, well, that probably means helping more people more consistently than they were previously able to.

No, it means that they are using the AI to pay less. AI shouldn't be doing something like handling disorders.

Reading the article it seems like it's barely even AI, it's just like an automated flowchart

Tessa does not make decisions or grow with the chatter; the program follows predetermined pathways based upon the researchers knowledge of individuals and their needs.

is this better, or worse? I dunno, but it does sort of suggest this is something that could have happened long ago since it doesn't really require any of the more recent ai advancements

ArtiRock posted...

If you're not sure what they are unioning for, maybe you shouldn't just randomly be against it? AI for eating disorders is a lousy idea no matter how you slice it.

The article stated pretty clearly what they were unionizing for.

We asked for adequate staffing and ongoing training to keep up with our changing and growing Helpline, and opportunities for promotion to grow within NEDA. We didnt even ask for more money, Harper wrote.

If those "opportunities for promotion" they were demanding included any sort of pay increase to go with them, this Harper person is a lying piece of shit. What a shock.

willythemailboy posted...

If those "opportunities for promotion" they were demanding included any sort of pay increase to go with them, this Harper person is a lying piece of s***. What a shock.

... No. It's more like let's say you pay a worker $9 an hour. They got rid of them for AI so they don't have to pay the workers because they dared ask for better staffing, training and opportunities for a promotion-- which would probably potentially lead to them having more say over what happens in the company. I'm not sure where you're going with what you're saying at this point.

ArtiRock posted...

I'm not sure where you're going with what you're saying at this point.

He's saying that a promotion usually means higher pay, which contradicts the "We didnt even ask for more money"

though I guess there's no reason you can't have a promotion at the same pay level

kirbymuncher posted...

He's saying that a promotion usually means higher pay, which contradicts the "We didnt even ask for more money"

though I guess there's no reason you can't have a promotion at the same pay level

That part is obvious, but ArtiRock will continue playing dumb to avoid admitting it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I recall a news article about a self help AI convincing a guy to kill himself not too long ago. I'm sure this will go well.

kirbymuncher posted...

He's saying that a promotion usually means higher pay, which contradicts the "We didnt even ask for more money"

though I guess there's no reason you can't have a promotion at the same pay level

I get what he's saying, but there's no reason to believe that a job nowadays gives you a pay increase because you got promoted.
willythemailboy posted...

That part is obvious, but ArtiRock will continue playing dumb to avoid admitting it.

Because there's nothing that says a promotion will get you a raise. So that's not playing dumb.

ArtiRock posted...

So that's not playing dumb.

Keep telling yourself that, eventually you'll actually believe it. No one else will, of course, but you do you.

willythemailboy posted...

Keep telling yourself that, eventually you'll actually believe it. No one else will, of course, but you do you.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Considering they had more things than just a promotion, it's pretty dumb that you'd insist that all they wanted was more pay.

lot of technophobic boomers itt about to be left behind by society

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The lack of staffing also comes down to more pay - for others if not themselves - and it's pretty clear the non-profit can't afford to increase payroll. Any way you slice it the union's demand was for more money than the employer could afford to pay.

willythemailboy posted...

The lack of staffing also comes down to more pay - for others if not themselves - and it's pretty clear the non-profit can't afford to increase payroll. Any way you slice it the union's demand was for more money than the employer could afford to pay.

that's certainly what the company wants you to believe

willythemailboy posted...

The lack of staffing also comes down to more pay - for others if not themselves - and it's pretty clear the non-profit can't afford to increase payroll. Any way you slice it the union's demand was for more money than the employer could afford to pay.

Or they decided that they didn't need people when they could get "adequate" performance for peanuts on the cost.

averagejoel posted...

that's certainly what the company wants you to believe

If it was a for-profit I'd at least be a little more skeptical, but time and again I've seen unions demand more than could practically be paid. Unions are legally protected monopoly pricing of labor and it's foolish to expect them to behave any more ethically with that power than anyone else would.

"Have you ever tried bacon dipped in barbeque sauce? It's the best thing ever. I am smart. I am a good Chatbot."

ArtiRock posted...

Of course. And people still don't understand that ai is not going to be able to handle delicate stuff like this because "gotta make profits."

Why do you think an eating order helpline is a for profit business?

willythemailboy posted...

If it was a for-profit I'd at least be a little more skeptical, but time and again I've seen unions demand more than could practically be paid. Unions are legally protected monopoly pricing of labor and it's foolish to expect them to behave any more ethically with that power than anyone else would.

you would do well to be significantly more skeptical of non-profits. they tend to overwork and underpay their employees. they rely on the employees being passionate about the goals of the organization, because otherwise they are more difficult to exploit.