Board 8 > Would you want to own an apartment

Topic List
Page List: 1
crazyisgood
03/29/23 3:54:21 AM
#1:


Not the whole complex just the apartment you live in?


Would you want to own a single apartment? Pay mortgage on it over rent.

---
Best RPG Boss Battle Bracket Nominations https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/220-rpgs-everything-else/75722929
... Copied to Clipboard!
guffguy89
03/29/23 3:55:33 AM
#2:


that is called a condo.

Edit: And as a condo owner, the answer is yes I would.

---
Don't mind me. I'm just here for the contest.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Cavedweller2000
03/29/23 7:07:45 AM
#3:


Of course why pay money into someone else's pocket when you could pay towards buying said condo/apartment/flat

---
Well done to azuarc for finishing 67 places above me in the 2020 GOTD Guru Contest!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shattered
03/29/23 8:19:02 AM
#4:


guffguy89 posted...
that is called a condo.

Edit: And as a condo owner, the answer is yes I would.

Not all condos are apartments though. The house I gave to my ex wife in the divorce was classed as a condo despite the fact that it was actually a 3 story 3/3 townhouse.

I didn't mind owning a condo and when I bought my house I looked at other condos and apartments too. I've also done the same when thinking about selling and moving. It's just the huge HOA / condo association fees that suck. I've seen ones in Orlando at least where the HOA/Condo fees are $800-1000 per month on top of the mortgage. Most are in the $400-650 range though. And that's a mixed bag, really depends what they cover. Some of them are worth it for the level of home protection coverage, services and additional benefits they provide. Whilst I've seen others that are like $600+ and provide nothing close to that worth a month.

The HOA/condo fees on my last condo were ~$300 a month at the time my divorce (I suspect they are $400+ now) but covered all external issues that required fixing (including the roof) and pipes. So it was definitely worth it since A. Hurricanes and B. This was under a heavily forested area so tree shit causing issues was common
... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeydude15
03/29/23 8:21:19 AM
#5:


Over renting, absolutely. Over buying a house, no.

---
Yawn
... Copied to Clipboard!
MZero
03/29/23 8:21:24 AM
#6:


I'd rather own than rent but I'd rather own a house

---
MZero, to the extreme
https://www.twitch.tv/kabazame
... Copied to Clipboard!
swirIdude
03/29/23 8:42:35 AM
#7:


Generally yes, unless the condo fees are stupidly high

---
Azuarc is my favorite arc of the Game of the Decade 2020 anime.
... Copied to Clipboard!
NoFInBadger
03/29/23 8:46:54 AM
#8:


A great topic I sure like waking up to.

---
WWE Divas Era > Superstar Era
... Copied to Clipboard!
MajinZidane
03/29/23 10:23:04 AM
#9:


House

---
Virtue - "You don't need a reason to Boko United."
... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n
03/29/23 10:49:51 AM
#10:


Yes, and I do own a townhouse condo. Wouldn't mind owning a single family home either, but they mostly suck in location, price, and maintenance. Either way, the house/condo you can get for a mortgage equivalent to your current rent is usually a huge upgrade. You just need a bunch of effort and down payment money on the front and back ends.

---
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
... Copied to Clipboard!
MysteriousStan
03/29/23 11:39:59 AM
#11:


Condo owner so yes. The alternative was to be constantly moving due rent increasing every year so I took the plunge. May end up in a house eventually but I'm in no hurry for that.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Raka_Putra
03/29/23 12:28:09 PM
#12:


MZero posted...
I'd rather own than rent but I'd rather own a house


---
"A blank page or canvas, his favorite. So many possibilities."
- RIP Stephen Sondheim, 1930-2021
... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor
03/29/23 12:41:42 PM
#13:


i can't imagine owning my home and still sharing my walls, floor, and ceiling with strangers

not to mention paying condo fees and taxes on top of a mortgage

i knew some people who owned a condo that were paying more than my rent in those fees alone

---
You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured.
... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor
03/29/23 12:42:19 PM
#14:


MZero posted...
I'd rather own than rent but I'd rather own a house
also this

---
You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured.
... Copied to Clipboard!
KingButz
03/29/23 2:00:24 PM
#15:


The United States subsidizes fee simple home ownership to a ridiculous extent (in particular, single family detached housing), so it is really hard to justify owning a condominium. I have a townhouse.

Wish it weren't that way but that's the system here.

---
to me hero's is just bad person
... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4
03/29/23 2:03:06 PM
#16:


No because I already own a house

---
Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
... Copied to Clipboard!
BlueCrystalTear
03/29/23 2:07:57 PM
#17:


Shattered posted...
Not all condos are apartments though. The house I gave to my ex wife in the divorce was classed as a condo despite the fact that it was actually a 3 story 3/3 townhouse.
Correct, my parents used to have a similar unit; it was in a building of four such residences.

The answer is yes. Condo associations are fantastic because you put in your money and actually get something out of it - snow removal, yard maintenance, common areas cleaned, etc. without having to take the time to do them. I would love that because I don't enjoy doing any of those things. Owning a house would mean I'd have to make it look "up to standards" especially if there's an HOA to bust my chops. HOAs suck because they don't offer what condos do.

---
Come check out my movie watchthrough topic:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80167031
... Copied to Clipboard!
Xiahou_Shake
03/29/23 2:10:42 PM
#18:


California's probably a bit of a special case but condos are really appealing here, especially in OC. Very happily own one myself. Rents out here are about as much as a mortgage and you get far more out of a condo for your money than you do a house. I paid around 565k for my extremely comfortable condo and the same money would, at best, give me a house that's literally falling apart.

---
Let the voice of love take you higher,
With this gathering power, go beyond even time!
... Copied to Clipboard!
VintageGin
03/29/23 3:50:22 PM
#19:


I essentially do. My wife and I own 25% of a fourplex.

---
Ginhyun
http://i.imgur.com/t7G7uoU.gif
... Copied to Clipboard!
XIII_Rocks
03/29/23 4:00:04 PM
#20:


Not entirely sure I want to bother with a lawn or the upkeep of a house, tbh. Maybe later in life, but I've long thought my first owned home would be an apartment

---
Not to be confused with XIII_Minerals.
... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n
03/29/23 4:49:24 PM
#21:


BlueCrystalTear posted...
Owning a house would mean I'd have to make it look "up to standards" especially if there's an HOA to bust my chops. HOAs suck because they don't offer what condos do.
Condos are HOAs though.

KingButz posted...
The United States subsidizes fee simple home ownership to a ridiculous extent (in particular, single family detached housing), so it is really hard to justify owning a condominium. I have a townhouse.
What applies to single family home but not a condo?

---
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
... Copied to Clipboard!
KingButz
03/30/23 12:04:09 PM
#22:


Single family homes require publicly subsidized infrastructure that condos generally do not (or do to a much lesser extent). Owners pay property taxes at the same % rate as condo owners do even though they own substantially more land. The value of single family homes is generally higher which makes it easier for owners to use the mortgage interest tax deduction.

These factors all contribute to why single family homes appreciate at a much higher rate than condominiums do.

---
to me hero's is just bad person
... Copied to Clipboard!
AriaOfBolo
03/30/23 12:07:31 PM
#23:


MZero posted...
I'd rather own than rent but I'd rather own a house

not that I'm ever likely to have a chance at either, but

---
New name, new gender, same great Bolo flavor!
Stronger than the storms that they've shown you
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shattered
03/30/23 1:18:25 PM
#24:


KingButz posted...
Single family homes require publicly subsidized infrastructure that condos generally do not (or do to a much lesser extent). Owners pay property taxes at the same % rate as condo owners do even though they own substantially more land. The value of single family homes is generally higher which makes it easier for owners to use the mortgage interest tax deduction.

These factors all contribute to why single family homes appreciate at a much higher rate than condominiums do.

I always believed it's because of the HOA/Condo fees you're going to pay forever. And they aren't usually insubstantial and are only going to increase.

I know in Orlando at least if you were buying an apartment/condo for like $250k (not super realistic now but was like 4 years ago) then your HOA/Condo fees would have been more than both your monthly principal and interest. That's a tough pill to swallow.

So it's like I could buy a $250k condo or I could buy a $350k house and the monthly expenses is probably the same except on the house it's all going towards the house at least and not fees.
... Copied to Clipboard!
KingButz
03/30/23 1:34:14 PM
#25:


Your house needs maintenance too. You're going to have to replace the roof and the hvac and the water heater, and do exerior painting and plumbing and so on.

For single family homes, the expense is less because a larger part of the value of your property is land which doesn't require much upkeep. For a condo, it's 70-95% building, which does require upkeep.

---
to me hero's is just bad person
... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n
03/30/23 8:56:01 PM
#26:


KingButz posted...
Single family homes require publicly subsidized infrastructure that condos generally do not (or do to a much lesser extent). Owners pay property taxes at the same % rate as condo owners do even though they own substantially more land. The value of single family homes is generally higher which makes it easier for owners to use the mortgage interest tax deduction.

These factors all contribute to why single family homes appreciate at a much higher rate than condominiums do.
None of this has anything do to with US subsidies, except for the infrastructure thing to a small extent. It's just accounting tricks to make single family homes seem more valuable than they actually are, in order to sell mortgages (see: 2008). I've never heard this stuff myself but it's kinda funny imagining others falling for it.

KingButz posted...
For single family homes, the expense is less because a larger part of the value of your property is land which doesn't require much upkeep. For a condo, it's 70-95% building, which does require upkeep.
Like this doesn't make any sense at all. The fact that you're surrounded by grass makes your $5k plumbing job cheaper than the condo's $5k plumbing job? Who falls for that?

---
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n
03/30/23 8:57:03 PM
#27:


Single family neighborhoods are charging pretty serious HOA fees nowadays too

---
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
... Copied to Clipboard!
dilateDChemist
03/30/23 9:15:21 PM
#28:


Depends how many floors. Lived in a 20+ floor apartment. Parking was a bitch for visitors and groceries was a bigger chore than it needed to be. Having a wagon helps.

---
-sent from SwiftyDC's phone
... Copied to Clipboard!
Bartzyx
04/01/23 9:52:35 AM
#29:


foolm0r0n posted...
None of this has anything do to with US subsidies, except for the infrastructure thing to a small extent.

A small extent? A 300 unit multifamily building on a single block requires 5001,000 feet of road to service it, while 300 single family homes (SFHs) require about 310 miles of road. The cost to maintain the miles of pavement, plumbing, electrical, and telecom infrastructure to all those homes is exponentially more expensive than to maintain the same for a single block. For all of this, everyone is charged the same rate per kilowatt-hour, per 1,000 gallons of water, dollar of property value, etc..

Businesses are required to provide mandatory parking spaces for all the SFH dwellers driving to their establishments, and most of them are unable to charge for parking (a textbook prisoner's dilemma), which means the price of the parking spaces (which condo owners use much less often) is baked into the rent and ultimately the prices.

And then of course, as you touched on, the mortgage industry (backed by the FHA) has encouraged and subsidized suburban SFH development for nearly a century.

foolm0r0n posted...
Like this doesn't make any sense at all. The fact that you're surrounded by grass makes your $5k plumbing job cheaper than the condo's $5k plumbing job? Who falls for that?

I didn't think ROI was that hard of a concept to understand. If land appreciates at, say 10% per annum, and the value of the physical structure remains constant (a generous assumption), then which $5k plumbing job has the greater return? And yet we tax the land (which increases in real value and requires no upkeep) and the structure (which will probably decrease in real value and requires substantial upkeep) at the same rate.

All these things combine to provide a much higher cumulative return to the person whose property is more land and less structure. As a result, the SFH owner not only receives more in public benefit than their taxes and fees pay for, but also increases their equity at a much higher rate.

---
Round 2 vs Nichols
Go Dennison!
... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n
04/01/23 10:54:43 AM
#30:


Infrastructure economics are all over the place. Utility prices can be different in neighborhoods, and often higher in denser city condo areas since the construction there is so much more expensive relatively. There's also better options in denser areas (i.e. auto trash pickup) which is overall more expensive, but worth it. SFH neighborhood infra costs are also often paid by the developers and baked into the housing prices, or HOA fees. Same with condo developments, but the point is you do pay for it.

If your condo is in such a great location that you don't need to use parking, that's a HUGE boost to your home's monetary and psychic value that an SFH will never be able to match. Location is everything and your condo will appreciate like crazy in this case. Suburban condos obviously don't have this benefit, I wouldn't consider one for this reason alone.

Bartzyx posted...
If land appreciates at, say 10% per annum, and the value of the physical structure remains constant (a generous assumption), then which $5k plumbing job has the greater return?
If both appreciate at 10% then obviously both are equal. SFH has to pay way more overall for maintenance, and it's not automatic that appreciation will be higher, so you're making a big gamble on those higher costs. If you justify it by hoping the favorable stats used to sell you a mortgage will come true, you're gonna get burned like millions of others in the multiple housing crashes we've had in our lifetime.

---
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
... Copied to Clipboard!
Seanchan
04/01/23 11:57:12 AM
#31:


From an urban or inner suburb position, the other thing about home ownership is that, in most cases, you NEED to own a car, so I think it's important to factor all those expenses (insurance, maintenance, gas, etc.) into the cost, assuming you could otherwise live in a condo without the need for a car.

---
"That was unnecessarily dramatic". - NY Mets motto (courtesy of InnerTubeHero)
Congratulations to azuarc, the guru of gurus and winner of GotD 2020!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Bartzyx
04/01/23 1:25:47 PM
#32:


foolm0r0n posted...
SFH neighborhood infra costs are also often paid by the developers and baked into the housing prices, or HOA fees.

Almost never true. First, most SFHs are not subject to an HOA so this point is moot. For new builds, the developer pays the initial cost for the infrastructure and then conveys much of the infrastructure to the municipal government who then assumes the cost of maintenance. If there is an HOA, it typically only covers certain internal streets to the development.

It's a well documented fact that single family neighborhoods are a huge financial drain on municipal governments. Urban3 has done some excellent research on the topic.

foolm0r0n posted...
Location is everything and your condo will appreciate like crazy in this case.

That's already baked into the price of the condo when it was built, unless it becomes more walkable while you own it, then yes you would benefit from appreciation related to the property becoming more desirable.

foolm0r0n posted...
If both appreciate at 10% then obviously both are equal.

If we're going to use completely illogical assumptions then why even have this discussion? Structures are a depreciating asset (meaning they lose value over time), while nominal land values in the US have increased by an average of 6% annually over the last 40 years.

foolm0r0n posted...
SFH has to pay way more overall for maintenance,

There's no truth to this. All else equal, maintenance of a SFH (a small building) will always be less per sqft than a large building.

---
Round 2 vs Nichols
Go Dennison!
... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n
04/01/23 7:15:22 PM
#33:


You said what I said with infra, developer pays. Yes they are a drain on resources, because they are terribly inefficient. It doesn't mean someone is benefiting from it. It's a net loss across the board.

Bartzyx posted...
Structures are a depreciating asset (meaning they lose value over time), while nominal land values in the US have increased by an average of 6% annually over the last 40 years
40 years is the perfect interval to smooth out all the housing crashes. Try 10 or 20 years, which is actually how long people own houses before trying to sell.

Like I said, you're trying to apply generalize hedge fund optimized stats to your individual home purchase. It makes no sense and only the banks can benefit.

Bartzyx posted...
There's no truth to this. All else equal, maintenance of a SFH (a small building) will always be less per sqft than a large building.
Where do you see this?

---
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List
Page List: 1