Poll of the Day > Why are people upset about the Tears of the Kingdom gameplay

(+) Yeah! (+)

chelle posted...

It looks like a 20 DLC.

Some folk said this about God of War Ragnark because it used the same areas but expanded on them. It actually had a lot of new context too and did exactly what a sequel should do. I'm using this as a example. Many sequels build upon what the prevoues game had before it.

chelle posted...

No real mechanic changes other than a bandaid over the controversial weapon durability issue.

I saw the weapon moulding mechanic and the transport crafting that both are new things. Being able to go through roofs if also a neat mechanic. What I believe is some folk build a games hype so much in their own head that the hype will never be met. I also believe Nintendo don't have to show us every little detail about a game before it's even out. The "I want it right now!" mentality seems very childish.

chelle posted...

Very little new content shown,

And yet they've still shown us quite a bit! There's a LOT of variation in the size, location, and function of the sky islands. I would wager there's a lot they aren't showing us for good reason, they don't want to spoil too much. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's game changing mechanics they aren't hinting at. Perhaps things like we'll be able to manipulate which islands are in the sky and where they are. If you go back and look at previous footage, you can see that different islands are in the sky or on the ground in different footage. For instance, those big cubes in the sky? You know what those are? They're the 3 zonai mazes. In some footage they're in the ground. In some footage they're in the sky. Implying that we're going to see old content in completely new context with new puzzles and challenges. And they've shown a lot of new enemy types! Gleeoks, Redeads, new boss moblins and the like. New flying enemies. New construct enemies. And dungeons are likely to have wallmasters and things like that, and probably new enemies as well. Just pay attention to what you're seeing in the trailers, a LOT is new. And there's also the underground, which we haven't even see much of yet, and it's possible it spans the entire length and width of Hyrule itself. I think one of the applications of Ascend is it's going to let you leave the underground anywhere you want.

implied content is the possibility of traditional dungeons but we have not seen any.

Yes I hope that there are traditional dungeons, the divine beasts were not good. And if there are traditional dungeons, I'll be honest, I want to experience them for myself, I don't want them spoiled.

No real mechanic changes other than a bandaid over the controversial weapon durability issue.

A lot of mechanic changes actually! Yes the durability system is back, but it's okay becuase you can repair weapons instead of forcing them to break. But the fuse system means there's thousands of weapon combinations beyond what were in BotW. That means new ways to approach combat situations, and you're encouraged more than ever to experiment with different weapons for different situations. And now you don't need to carry different arrow types. You can just craft new arrows on the fly, and there are more arrow types than there were before. And that's just for Link. We've seen the constructs have different and new weapons as well. This is also going to change how you approach combat. It's the same enemy, but it's holding a different weapon so it has different behavior. And the rune system is completely different. The time reverse mechanic means there can be more kinds of puzzles than just needing to freeze a platform, or trying to figure out the exact amount and vector of force to apply to an object to get it where you want it. And we've already seen the combat implications of this. An old trailer shows a boulder rolling down a hill, and Link reverses time and it hits enemies up the hill. I can see puzzles in dungeons where you'll need to ascend through ceilings to solve a puzzle or find a hidden treasure. Or maybe there's sky islands where the only way to get to them is to ascend from the ground. And that's not really even getting into the fuse and ultrahand stuff of making vehicles. You can see in the new gameplay that there are pallets of lumber and bricks and other things all over the world. I imagine that there's a lot more to this system than what they have shown, and what they've shown is crazy.

It has been in development for longer than the original Breath of the Wild was.

Yes, and it shows. It's very clear that Zelda team is extremely knowledgeable and skilled with this engine now. The game looks better, and was performing better than BotW in the gameplay footage. And this is in a seemless open world game, with the large open map of BotW, with hundreds of these islands in the sky, reaching miles and miles high into the sky (seriously, do you see how far up some of those objects are? You can see a dragon high above Link when he's riding the rock up, and it's so far away that's TINY on the screen.) and a massive underground area, and who knows what else. And this is with all the changes and additions to the physics engine on top of it.

I don't think the people that are saying "it's just DLC" are really thinking about or really watching the footage. This looks like they took the foundation of BotW, a game everyone loved, and ran with it to a logical extreme. This game is going to have an even bigger influence on the industry than BotW did. I think when the game comes out, and player footage is circling the internet, and we see what else Nintendo isn't showing, that people are going to change their tune about how it's "just DLC" really quick.

Im pretty hype for it. I got the special edition OLED preordered as a late bday gift.

wwinterj25 posted...

What I believe is some folk build a games hype so much in their own head that the hype will never be met.

Specifically with BotW and TotK, BotW's departure from the traditional Zelda formula left a lot of people with highly varied opinions on what worked, what didn't, and what should come next. More so than most other games, I think a lot of people came out of BotW with a laundry list of what they'd like to see changed or expanded upon, which they doubled down on with the news that a BotW sequel (which would presumably continue to deviate from the traditional Zelda formula and expand on what BotW started) was in the works. Now, to no surprise, many of those people are disappointed because so many of their ideas aren't being used.

It's a situation where the slate was unusually blank and people started mentally filling in those blanks before we had any confirmation of what they'd be filled in with.

chelle posted...

a bandaid over the controversial weapon durability issue.

It remains to be seen just how it plays out, but it certainly looks like a lot more than a band-aid. As I mentioned earlier, it has the potential to turn durability from just being a tedious chore into a mechanic that actually adds something interesting to the game. At worst, it'll make the tedious chore much less tedious, so that's at least welcome.

the only thing i wanted from a sequel is regular fuckin weapons that don't break in three hits, actual legitimate proper dungeons instead of combat trial #4534959348

and some form of co-op, though it's not something i actually expected to happen, for obvious reasons

adjl posted...

At worst, it'll make the tedious chore much less tedious

i disagree

i think it's going to be even more tedious, since you'll be constantly having to go into the menu to keep using your sword, and that's only if you can combine it multiple times and not just a single time

they didn't have to monkey paw this, they legitimately could have just made weapons less fragile, or let you straight up just disable durability in settings or something

ConfusedTorchic posted...

i think it's going to be even more tedious, since you'll be constantly having to go into the menu to keep using your sword, and that's only if you can combine it multiple times and not just a single time

You already have to go into the menu to pick out a new weapon when one breaks, and it looks like fusing with objects in the world is a simple matter of using the rune and not navigating a menu. The key difference is that "find rock" is going to take much less time than "find and kill a Savage Lynel," making it less tedious.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

the only thing i wanted from a sequel is regular f***in weapons that don't break in three hits

You're in luck: The stick - which was one of the most fragile weapons in BotW and presumably will be in TotK as well - lasts four hits.

adjl posted...

That's fair, but I'm still getting the impression that there will be plenty of interesting new content and places to explore even though it's the same basic world, not unlike what happened with ALBW. I don't think there's too much to worry about.

Yeah I think youre going to end up being correct. Im probably zeroing in on the whole recycled overworld thing way too much.

If DLC existed in 2000 people would have called Majora's Mask glorified DLC when it was announced

Zareth posted...

If DLC existed in 2000 people would have called Majora's Mask glorified DLC when it was announced

Didn't expansions for PC games exist in the 90s?

Is the map even the exact same as BotW? It looked different to me, but I recognized landmarks. I probably just have a bad memory. I like how high up the sky stuff is.

ReturnOfFa posted...

Didn't expansions for PC games exist in the 90s?

Yes and? The idea of them being on consoles wasn't a thing back then.

adjl posted...

You already have to go into the menu to pick out a new weapon when one breaks

...no you don't

ConfusedTorchic posted...

...no you don't

Left dpad button.

is a quick-menu, but not the menu, yes.

regular menu is far more immersion breaking than pressing left twice.

But will you have to go into the menu here? It seems like you can fuse items outside the menu, right? And the quick select probably still works?

What I wanted out of a sequel to Breath of the Wild was for BotW's open air gameplay to be treated as an experiment, and for more traditional elements to be folded in.

Not really stoked on vehicle crafting, having used similar mechanics before and not enjoying them.

Also as someone who hit 100% completion in BotW, I'm not super jazzed about the sequel using the same map, even if there are some new areas in the form of the sky islands. The gameplay they showed really highlighted how similar ground level Hyrule is.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

is a quick-menu, but not the menu, yes.

regular menu is far more immersion breaking than pressing left twice.

Nah that's what I meant. You don't have to enter the actual menu to change weapons. I think you do to unequip though. Fucking lightning strikes.

Also waiting for a blood moon is annoying. It should have been on a set cycle.

Zareth posted...

If DLC existed in 2000 people would have called Majora's Mask glorified DLC when it was announced

Learning more about MM's development, it's honestly a miracle that game turned out at all and I can't even begin to blame Aonuma for reusing so many assets from OoT. As far as I can tell, Miyamoto was super butthurt that somebody else got to make Zelda and gave the team a strict timeline of one year and minimal support, including outright telling them to just release whatever they had at the end of that year regardless of whether or not it was a finished game (in stark contrast to "A delayed game can eventually be good, but a bad game is bad forever" when talking about how own projects).

The word on the street is Grezzo is making a new 2D Zelda in the vein of Link's Awakening.

Also Nintendo is building a new structure specifically to expand their R&D department near their Kyoto headquarters.

Also, I keep thinking about how crazy TotK is going to be, and how it's not just making me excited for that game, it's making me excited for the next 10 years of Nintendo games. If this is what they're cooking up for Zelda, what is the next Mario going to be? If Bowser's Fury is any indication, the next Mario is going to be revolutionary.

papercup posted...

The word on the street is Grezzo is making a new 2D Zelda in the vein of Link's Awakening.

New, new, or another remake?

I really hope the Oracle rights situation has finally been fixed.

I haven't been keeping up with the game cause everything I've seen makes it looks like BotW 1.1. Have they shown any actual dungeons, cool new weapons and tools (hookshot, magic, etc), or literally anything other than what could be BotW dlc?

koopabrosblack posted...

I haven't been keeping up with the game cause everything I've seen makes it looks like BotW 1.1. Have they shown any actual dungeons, cool new weapons and tools (hookshot, magic, etc), or literally anything other than what could be BotW dlc?

They showed new runes, on the fly weapon and vehicle crafting systems, underground sections, sky islands, time reversing, new enemies. No dungeons but I dont want the dungeons spoiled.

papercup posted...

The word on the street is Grezzo is making a new 2D Zelda in the vein of Link's Awakening.

I hope that's true. I enjoyed link between worlds far more than botw. I also like metroid dread better than prime so maybe I'm just old fashioned but I'm glad they're apparently making games for people like me

papercup posted...

The word on the street is Grezzo is making a new 2D Zelda in the vein of Link's Awakening.

Hopefully it's the Oracle trilogy!

Either way it'll likely be good, Links Awakening was a real good remake, platform performance issues aside.

BADoglick posted...

I hope that's true. I enjoyed link between worlds far more than botw. I also like metroid dread better than prime so maybe I'm just old fashioned but I'm glad they're apparently making games for people like me

I never got to play that. They really need to bring the DS and 3DS ones to the Switch.

koopabrosblack posted...

I haven't been keeping up with the game cause everything I've seen makes it looks like BotW 1.1. Have they shown any actual dungeons, cool new weapons and tools (hookshot, magic, etc), or literally anything other than what could be BotW dlc?

Everything you listed there could be BotW DLC. What is it with this idea that the game is "BotW DLC" just because it's like BotW? Was Link's Awakening "ALttP DLC"? Was ALBW? If it turns out to be too short or content-sparse to consider it a standalone game, then there's room to liken it to DLC, and that remains a possibility but absolutely nothing about the information available to date has suggested that that will be the case with enough certainty to warrant this whole "it's just BotW DLC" thing people seem so fond of.

A lot of people had (and still have) a similar attitude toward SSBU, calling it "SSB4.5," and I never particularly understood that either. Ultimate changed roughly as much from 4 as 4 did from Brawl, and Brawl did from Melee (I would say Melee did more to build on 64 than subsequent entries). Yes, it's a similar game, but that's how series work.

But what caused the kingdom to become so torn

Metalsonic66 posted...

But what caused the kingdom to become so torn

They saw a sad movie

zelda finally became unconstipated from her century long hibernation and it shattered the ground and caused earthquakes

"it uses the same overworld because it's set in the same world" is kinda "she breathes through her skin" logic.

They decided to set it in the same location in order to justify using the same overworld, not the other way around.

sequels tend to take place in the same places

ConfusedTorchic posted...

sequels tend to take place in the same places

This isn't even true for most sequels within the Zelda series itself, much less within video games as a whole

Im disappointed that it uses the same overworld. However, if it has proper Zelda dungeons, Ill be a happy camper.

papercup posted...

If Bowser's Fury is any indication, the next Mario is going to be revolutionary.

I found Bowser's Fury to be very lackluster. A few completely unconnected levels in an empty overworld, whoopee.

Ever since that Mario game where everybody was a cat it's all gone downhill

GanonsSpirit posted...

I found Bowser's Fury to be very lackluster. A few completely unconnected levels in an empty overworld, whoopee.

Mario 64 but open and seamless is a big deal.

Also in an interview with Variety a couple days ago, they asked Miyamoto if he can share news on the next big Mario game, and he said to watch the next Nintendo Direct.

The next Direct could technically be next year if they wanted, heh.

It won't, unless they do some very, very specific pseudo-directs, so it's unlikely, but they could!

papercup posted...

Also in an interview with Variety a couple days ago, they asked Miyamoto if he can share news on the next big Mario game, and he said to watch the next Nintendo Direct.

Oh boy I hope it's a logo for Mario Prime 4

papercup posted...

Mario 64 but open and seamless is a big deal.

Yeah, it is. Bowser's Fury isn't that though.

I hope they remove motion controls too.

Any excuse to hate on Nintendo so they can look cool and mature.

Blightzkrieg posted...

Oh boy I hope it's a logo for Mario Prime 4

that's asking for way too much

I am not optimistic for Metroid Prime 4.

Zareth posted...

I am not optimistic for Metroid Prime 4.

Prime Remastered actually gives me some degree of hope for it. Retro very obviously put a lot of work into that remaster to get it looking that good on the Switch. That's more work than would generally be worthwhile just for a remaster, which suggests to me that Remastered was a probably trial run for an engine they've developed to use for a new game. That engine is likely optimized enough for the Switch that it won't be a simple matter to port it over to its successor, so this all probably means Prime 4 is still intended to come out on the Switch.

adjl posted...

Prime Remastered actually gives me some degree of hope for it. Retro very obviously put a lot of work into that remaster to get it looking that good on the Switch. That's more work than would generally be worthwhile just for a remaster, which suggests to me that Remastered was a probably trial run for an engine they've developed to use for a new game. That engine is likely optimized enough for the Switch that it won't be a simple matter to port it over to its successor, so this all probably means Prime 4 is still intended to come out on the Switch.

Copetroid

Sonicplys posted...

Any excuse to hate on Nintendo so they can look cool and mature.

Wat.

Nintendo is looking for the TotK artbook leaker so they can sue them. :0 Also apparently the merchandise like the artbook and special edition console were ready a year ago, and some people got their hands on these things ages ago and have been holding on to them since they were only officially unveiled recently.

Not surprising that they were ready ages ago. Artbooks are usually full of concept art, which happens very early in development, and the special edition console's design is pretty much just the logo.

I won't be able to afford it. I'd like the artbook probably.