Poll of the Day > Why are people upset about the Tears of the Kingdom gameplay

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papercup
03/28/23 10:33:12 PM
#1:


The changes to the runes and the on the fly crafting stuff is insane. This game looks like its going to be massive, and they havent even shown the dungeons yet, and I kind of dont want to see the dungeons until I actually get to play it. The people that keep saying that its just DLC, nothing is new, it feels like we arent watching the same trailers. And I only played BotW twice, like 5 years apart, so Im not burnt out on it like some people apparently are.

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Metalsonic66
03/28/23 10:42:21 PM
#2:


Many Tears

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ConfusedTorchic
03/29/23 1:20:42 AM
#3:


i mean

i'm sure it's gonna be fine, but it does really just look like an expansion

i just hope that weapon durability isn't batshit insane again, or that we can just repair shit

i get what the intentions behind it was, but i don't care, i just want to use a fucking sword for more than three goddamn hits dude. i played it recently with an infinite durability mod on and it was absolutely wonderful. i could use what i wanted to use, without the game dictating what i can maybe use.

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Krazy_Kirby
03/29/23 2:28:55 AM
#4:


ConfusedTorchic posted...

or that we can just repair shit


octorok

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Gaawa_chan
03/29/23 3:57:52 AM
#5:


I'm concerned they haven't actually added anything I was hoping for with respect to BotW's formula. The game just didn't have anything meaningful to find in its overworld the vast, vast majority of the time, and TotK is not going to have the excuse of being the first of its kind in the series to hide behind if it continues that trend.

I HOPE that there's more enemy variety, and they have shown a couple new enemies, but... No. I mean like I want twice as many enemy types as BotW. With the sheer amount of reused assets, they have no excuse for skimping this time around, not with such a huge overworld. It NEEDS variety.

Haven't seen dungeons. Haven't seen bosses/mini-bosses/unique enemies of any kind. Haven't seen much of anything I was actually hoping to see, tbh.

And this is extremely petty, but the equipment fusion system looks really dumb. I'm sure it will be a lot of fun, but oh my god. The aesthetics bother me. Oh well. I'll get over that one, I'm sure.

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VampireCoyote
03/29/23 7:26:35 AM
#6:


People are upset always for any reason

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RevolutionZeal
03/29/23 8:29:26 AM
#7:


I like it! Looks really good imo ...but it does look like an expansion/DLC haha
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streamofthesky
03/29/23 8:54:44 AM
#8:


People hated the "weapon durability" and Nintendo instead of removing it basically doubled down on it even harder. Put all that effort into that "combine" system instead of just...removing breakable weapons. I'm sure you can do all sorts of wonderfully stupid things w/ it that will be entertaining for youtubers to discover. But as a player, I'd rather give up the entire system for just...not having my weapons break.

RevolutionZeal posted...
I like it! Looks really good imo ...but it does look like an expansion/DLC haha
That part I don't really care about. It's a direct sequel, honestly don't get why they wouldn't just re-use the map from BotW. As long as they add a bunch of new areas to it -- which is what the floating islands do -- you're still getting new content like you would w/ a totally new map. Except now they can re-populate the old map areas and maybe add some dungeons or shuffle things around, and you end up w/ way more area to explore.
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BADoglick
03/29/23 9:07:24 AM
#9:


I thought traversal in botw was extremely tedious and this looks like it could be worse

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Nichtcrawler-X
03/29/23 9:22:48 AM
#10:


For many people BotW felt like an open world game with a slight Zelda lick of paint.

This games appears to be doubling down on those open world/minecraft-esque aspects.

The problem with genre-names and series aspects, is that we all put emphasis on different parts.

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keyblader1985
03/29/23 9:49:05 AM
#11:


I haven't watched any videos.. but from what I heard some time ago, the game started as DLC for Breath of the Wild. They said that they had so many ideas they wanted to use for DLC that they thought it would be better to just make them into a whole new game. That being the case, there was no reason not to expect the game to be very similar to BotW.

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DirtBasedSoap
03/29/23 10:18:28 AM
#12:


its gonna be mid if there arent classic Zelda dungeons.

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wpot
03/29/23 10:34:17 AM
#13:


Gaawa_chan posted...
The game just didn't have anything meaningful to find in its overworld the vast, vast majority of the time
I don't really understand this one. In Skyrim/FF15/etc I had this problem: what you found was repetitive and/or useless. It's a huge problem for open world games.

BotW is the one open world game I've played where I wasn't bothered by repetitive uselessness given the shrines, towers, quests, etc etc. The puzzles hidden everywhere made the world interesting to me. To each their own.

Weapon breakage is a whole different thing. I'll agree with those who are saying they know why it was implemented but dislike it anyways: it didn't succeed in making new weapons fun to find and - as such - was just annoying. If they want to have some sort of 'ammo' hidden in the world fine and good...just don't make the primary weapon/sword disposable.

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adjl
03/29/23 11:00:00 AM
#14:


wpot posted...
I don't really understand this one. In Skyrim/FF15/etc I had this problem: what you found was repetitive and/or useless. It's a huge problem for open world games.

BotW is the one open world game I've played where I wasn't bothered by repetitive uselessness given the shrines, towers, quests, etc etc. The puzzles hidden everywhere made the world interesting to me. To each their own.

I'm kind of in the same boat. A lot of the "typical" open-world games have maps that are full of stuff, but it's the same stuff copy-pasted over and over again in one of 2-4 different flavours of "bandit camps." BotW certainly wasn't entirely exempt from that, in that a lot of the enemy camps had very similar structures and there wasn't much enemy variety, but it didn't go overboard stuffing the world full of those, and instead exploring meant I got to stumble across a unique puzzle every now and then. The preponderance of combat shrines was an issue, and I often found it pretty disappointing to put in the time to find, get to, and unlock a shrine only to have it be the same fight I'd done a dozen times already (worse because even the hardest combat shrine got pretty trivial after clearing it 3-4 times and having later-game weapons to work with), but I really don't understand the complaints that the world is "empty" because it hasn't been stuffed with repetitive busywork. That's a good thing, in my books.

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Krazy_Kirby
03/29/23 11:04:21 AM
#15:


the puzzles are basically genshin impact

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wpot
03/29/23 11:53:17 AM
#16:


adjl posted...
The preponderance of combat shrines was an issue, and I often found it pretty disappointing to put in the time to find, get to, and unlock a shrine only to have it be the same fight I'd done a dozen times already
Agreed there: the shrines did a pretty good job mixing things up (apart from the aesthetic/music)...except for the battle shrines. Those got old.

adjl posted...
I really don't understand the complaints that the world is "empty" because it hasn't been stuffed with repetitive busywork.
Again agreed. I can't quite tell if that's the complaint or if people are hoping for a lot more unique things. The latter would be nice, certainly, but I have yet to see an open world game do better than BotW personally (and there's a limit to programming effort that can go towards unique things, of course).

adjl posted...
especially speaking as somebody who generally hoards powerful consumables indefinitely, "just in case," so you know that awesome new flame sword sat unused in my inventory for 10+ hours until it became a common drop
I don't think anyone can graduate from RPG school until they learn to do that. :) Don't break your cool fire sword on that boring common enemy - save it until you've had it for 20 hours and have lost all interest in it!

The ones that annoyed me most in BotW were the Royal Guard (or whatever) weapons in the castle that were strong but broke so quickly that you could barely get through one fight with them. It wasn't even worth picking them up.

adjl posted...
I'm pretty interested to see how it plays out
Agreed - it could be good, but it depends how much it can impact and how far you can go with it. Does it largely solve the durability problem or does it just add an extra step along the way to having weapons break regularly? :) I'll reserve judgment.

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Ogurisama
03/29/23 11:54:45 AM
#17:


I just really dislike the weapon durability is still a thing. Was my biggest criticism of BotW

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adjl
03/29/23 12:12:04 PM
#18:


wpot posted...
I don't think anyone can graduate from RPG school until they learn to do that. :) Don't break your cool fire sword on that boring common enemy - save it until you've had it for 20 hours and have lost all interest in it!

You know, you can't buy elixirs, so I'd better save this one. Sure, it's the final boss and I'm going to die if I don't use it, but what if I use it and then there's another phase and I really need it then? Or even worse, a post-game superboss? I'd better just take the wipe and up my game for the next attempt so I'll still have it available, just in case.

*Game ends, elixir sits unused in my inventory forever*

wpot posted...
Agreed - it could be good, but it depends how much it can impact and how far you can go with it. Does it largely solve the durability problem or does it just add an extra step along the way to having weapons break regularly? :) I'll reserve judgment.

The gameplay showcase doesn't indicate whether weapons can be un-fused after being fused, nor if you can extend one's durability indefinitely by just repeatedly adding a rock to it, but I'm kind of okay either way. If you can't un-fuse on command and instead just have to wear out or discard fused weapons you don't want anymore, that gives an incentive to keep a spare copy of whatever weapon you're using around for the sake of being able to fuse it with anything cool you come across. Rather than being an annoying maintenance chore, that plays well into the improvised weaponry concept that made the durability mechanic relatively enjoyable in BotW's early game, especially where the buff from the fusion can offset any losses from using a suboptimal weapon so you don't lose as much by not stockpiling the best thing available. If, instead, you can stave off breakage forever by re-fusing with a new everyday item that's readily available, that is still a tedious maintenance task, but "find rock" is substantially less tedious than "kill 47 Savage Lynels" and offers potential for more interesting shenanigans if you find something more fun than a rock.

Of course, saying this, I'm not sure Zelda is the right place for such a mechanic. Historically, it's been a series that very much focuses on finding a singular legendary sword and using that to kill the BBEG. BotW already messed with that core theme in a way that a lot of people didn't enjoy (the Master Sword didn't break, but the recharge mechanic was a pretty contrived way of shoehorning it into the durability system), and while there's certainly plenty of precedent for having other weapons be better (Biggoron's Sword being the one most series fans will think of first), further deviating from the theme by saying "ignore that legendary sword and instead make your own sword-chucks!" is going to rub some people the wrong way. I expect it'll probably be fun and well worth building a game around, but it really doesn't do anything to scratch the Zelda itch.

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wpot
03/29/23 12:42:33 PM
#19:


adjl posted...
*Game ends, elixir sits unused in my inventory forever*
Oh indeed. :) I sometimes add "I'm good at this game - I'm too cool to need an Elixir" on top of that...but it's all just a thin excuse to hold on to the Elixir. I'm playing Triangle Strategy right now and I regularly ask myself "is this fight REALLY hard enough to use a top item"? The answer is "no" 100% of the time for the true top items, of course, but I can convince myself to use second tier items...rarely.

adjl posted...
If you can't un-fuse on command and instead just have to wear out or discard fused weapons you don't want anymore
That reminds me of the FFX-Star Ocean 3 era of gaming where you ended up with several old weapons with various abilities perma-fused on to them. In both of those cases...well, see discussion above: I unsurprisingly hoarded the best fusion materials because I was waiting for a perfect long-term fit for them...which of course never came. Zelda could do better than that by allowing you to remove fused items/factors though. (SO3 tried to allow this, although it didn't work particularly conveniently)

In either case I don't know that really fits in a game with a Master Sword tradition, though, as you said.

Orr...maybe they're going for something more like Dark Cloud 2 where you start with a weapon (the Master Sword, perhaps) and continue to make it better and better while continually repairing it. That could work, although if the preview showed a stick getting improved that would imply that's not what's going on.

In the big picture I think people will be annoyed if weapons are disposable and not treated like the permanent tools (with different purposes) that they used to be. Fusion may have a role there, but...reserving judgment! :)

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LinkPizza
03/29/23 12:46:40 PM
#20:


Im super excited about it! I never really had an issue with weapon durability, but the fusing thing looks really cool and interesting Especially with arrows And literally going though the ceilings is crazy. Having more enemies would be cool, but the enemies using fused weapons already can change how you have to fight them in some cases Like with the enemies with the fan thing and whatever Either way, Im pretty excited about it

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wwinterj25
03/29/23 3:05:17 PM
#21:


I mean a sequel to a game could be seen as a expansion in some cases when they use the same assists. With that said I'm not sure what some folk were expecting. I like what I'm seeing though save for breaking weapons again (never liked this in breath of the wild).

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RevolutionZeal
03/30/23 12:51:56 AM
#22:


streamofthesky posted...
That part I don't really care about. It's a direct sequel, honestly don't get why they wouldn't just re-use the map from BotW.
Yep, agreed. Still looks like one, but fully expected what I've seen and I'm good with it
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ReturnOfFa
03/30/23 1:06:11 AM
#23:


It looks like some weapon stuff has been made easier, so hopefully there's a combine/fuse thing to let you repair weapon durability easily. The world looks a fair bit different? It's hard to tell. I'll definitely enjoy it, but ffs there's gotta be classic Zelda dungeons or I'll be sad :(!!!

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Revelation34
03/30/23 4:24:56 AM
#24:


Oh so it's not a day one buy since they left the weapon durability in.

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LinkPizza
03/30/23 4:37:47 AM
#25:


Revelation34 posted...
Oh so it's not a day one buy since they left the weapon durability in.

While they left it in, it seems like its kind of different. You can use a weapon until its almost broken, and then fuse it with something. Which seems to raise attack and durability And possibly refills durability, as well Though, we wont know the extent until its fully out

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ConfusedTorchic
03/30/23 5:01:41 AM
#26:


it doesn't matter what it's been changed to, it's still pure utter garbage.

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LinkPizza
03/30/23 5:12:08 AM
#27:


ConfusedTorchic posted...
it doesn't matter what it's been changed to, it's still pure utter garbage.

I disagree... But to each their own...

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ConfusedTorchic
03/30/23 5:26:07 AM
#28:


no

your opinion is bad

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LinkPizza
03/30/23 5:52:32 AM
#29:


ConfusedTorchic posted...
no

your opinion is bad

Not bad Just different

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papercup
03/30/23 10:14:49 AM
#30:


Stop fighting! Zelda doesn't want you to fight. D:

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adjl
03/30/23 10:28:08 AM
#31:


ConfusedTorchic posted...
it doesn't matter what it's been changed to

Sure it does. If the problem with durability is that it means you have to keep finding new weapons to use, and it's been changed to a system where you no longer have to keep finding new weapons, then the problem is gone.

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NemesisOgreKing
03/30/23 10:40:28 AM
#32:


VampireCoyote posted...
People are upset always for any reason

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GanonsSpirit
03/30/23 10:47:36 AM
#33:


papercup posted...
Stop fighting! Zelda doesn't want you to fight. D:
Zelda is too busy trying to save the princess to care about what we do.

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potdnewb
03/30/23 11:23:32 AM
#34:


GanonsSpirit posted...
Zelda is too busy trying to save the princess to care about what we do.
i thought zelda is the princess
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adjl
03/30/23 11:26:53 AM
#35:


potdnewb posted...
i thought zelda is the princess

That's silly. Why would they name the game after some secondary character instead of the real hero?

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BeerOnTap
03/31/23 7:02:35 AM
#36:


wwinterj25 posted...
I'm not sure what some folk were expecting.

An actual brand new overworld. Re-using the same exact overworld and charging $70 for it feels a bit like a cheap shot.
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FrozenBananas
03/31/23 7:05:11 AM
#37:


potdnewb posted...
i thought zelda is the princess

well excuuuseee me princess

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potdnewb
03/31/23 7:15:20 AM
#38:


how can they be upset about something they have not played yet
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LinkPizza
03/31/23 7:59:59 AM
#39:


BeerOnTap posted...
An actual brand new overworld. Re-using the same exact overworld and charging $70 for it feels a bit like a cheap shot.

The re-used overworld makes sense, though And they still added the sky islands And possibly underground stuff, as well And there are still other possible differences A brand new overworld doesnt make sense for the game

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BeerOnTap
03/31/23 9:10:38 AM
#40:


LinkPizza posted...
The re-used overworld makes sense, though And they still added the sky islands And possibly underground stuff, as well And there are still other possible differences A brand new overworld doesnt make sense for the game

why would a brand new overworld not make sense for a brand new game?

Majoras mask re-used assets from OoT, but it got an entire new overworld.
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papercup
03/31/23 9:28:54 AM
#41:


BeerOnTap posted...
why would a brand new overworld not make sense for a brand new game?

Majoras mask re-used assets from OoT, but it got an entire new overworld.
Yeah but that overworld wasnt Hyrule. ALttP and ALBW take place in the same Hyrule map. The Zelda 1 map is inside the Zelda 2 map. This isnt unprecedented for the series.

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adjl
03/31/23 9:31:13 AM
#42:


BeerOnTap posted...
why would a brand new overworld not make sense for a brand new game?

Majoras mask re-used assets from OoT, but it got an entire new overworld.

ALBW, meanwhile, reused large chunks of the overworld from ALttP. It was still a brand new game, but built on the world of a previous game. That's not really a bad thing.

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LinkPizza
03/31/23 10:28:50 AM
#43:


BeerOnTap posted...
why would a brand new overworld not make sense for a brand new game?

Because its the same world It makes no sense for a game that takes place in the same place to have a competely different overworld

BeerOnTap posted...
Majoras mask re-used assets from OoT, but it got an entire new overworld.

Because Majoras Mask didnt take place in Hyrule. It took place in Termina, which was like an alternate universe. Same people with mostly the same names, but different people because they werent in the same universe (Though, I believe the reasons for using them when making the game were different). Either way, it had a different overworld because it took place in a different place I thought most people knew that

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BeerOnTap
03/31/23 10:41:47 AM
#44:


To those who replied to me:

Excellent points. Especially about ALTTP and ALBW being the same (mostly) map. Thats a very valid point indeed. Thanks.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that I wish Tears of the Kingdom did an entirely new map, an entirely new depiction of Hyrule, or an altogether different world. I think that would have been more interesting. At the end of the day, though, I am still excited for this game.
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adjl
03/31/23 11:22:01 AM
#45:


That's fair, but I'm still getting the impression that there will be plenty of interesting new content and places to explore even though it's the same basic world, not unlike what happened with ALBW. I don't think there's too much to worry about.

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chelle
03/31/23 1:19:19 PM
#46:


I would like to know why this took so long to develop, because, well.
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papercup
03/31/23 1:51:24 PM
#47:


chelle posted...
I would like to know why this took so long to develop, because, well.
Why, what's wrong with it?

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chelle
03/31/23 1:52:33 PM
#48:


It looks like a 20 DLC.
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papercup
03/31/23 1:53:15 PM
#49:


chelle posted...
It looks like a 20 DLC.

In what way? Because it doesn't look like that at all.

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chelle
03/31/23 1:57:00 PM
#50:


Very little new content shown, implied content is the possibility of traditional dungeons but we have not seen any. No real mechanic changes other than a bandaid over the controversial weapon durability issue.

It has been in development for longer than the original Breath of the Wild was.

That is what they finally showed us.
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