Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 12: There are Four Lights!

(+) Yeah! (+)

PunishedBen posted...

just in case I'm wrong

And I'll be honest, me saying this is mainly me trying to be nice to my fellow town members. I'm VERY confident that I am right. And I thought about voting Han in my first post today after telling nobody to vote because I was that sure it wouldn't lose the game and that it would be funny. But mostly just funny to me because I realize that's rude as hell. So I'm practicing what I preach and not voting willy nilly because I said at the start of the day that if you're town you've gotta not do that.

I did vote Han last night but that was because I thought the game was going to be over at any second and just wanted it down for post game clout

So can we all agree vote Lea to wake her up? I'm sure she would appreciate being less bored

Weird comment earlier btw being bored in a day like today

lea definitely does seem like shes phoning it in

but thats hypocritical of me because I am hung over and actually phoning it in at this exact moment in time

Who's your scum team again? Me , Sultan, and somebody else?

PunishedBen posted...

Who's your scum team again? Me , Sultan, and somebody else?

This was for Lea

Then who is the scum team in your "information established" outlook?

Anyone except you, Dumey, and Han?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

You think Chris and Han going after each other makes him automatically town, but Chris and Sultan going after each other does not? Here, lets throw away my day 1 posts that I thought made Sultan look town.

Just today, he says "Screw everything, I'm gonna vote and go with my gut". A terrible play as scum - scum does not want to give information like Ctes gathered where he had "Sultan is scum?" as bulletpojnt 1. And it is a play that comes from a town mindset because Sultan knows he doesnt have the votes on Ctes and is going with what he believes in. And then his reaction to us asking him to unvote. It is not cold and calculated. He just did it.

Do you disagree with the above?

And I'm specifically asking about his decision to vote Ctes today and reaction to us asking him to unvote. Do you think THAT doesnt look like obvtown?

Sultan, just to reply to one of your earlier concerns - The reason you are getting appealed to is because Han, Lea, and Dumey are the assumed scum team. They are all believing each other are town and ready to vote for me. JC and Ctes have seen through it and they are suspicious of this group of 3.

But even if me, JC, and Ctes were to vote for Han, and the other group votes for me. That is 3 V 3. So we both need your vote.

Which is ANOTHER fucking point that I think is telling why Sultan is town. Lmeowa

Its quite literally Sultan's vote to decide the game. And its possible the only reason it didnt end last night was because Dumey wasnt online. I wont die on that hill or use that as evidence against Dumey. But its not evidence that makes Ctes or Sultan mafia automatic mafia either

Basically Sultan,

If you believe that I am scum you also have to believe Ctes and JC are my buddies. Us as a scum team makes the final setup

1- Vanilla
2- Vanilla
3- Vanilla
4- Vanilla
5- Vanilla
6- Vanilla
7- Neighborizer
8- Drunk
9- 1-use BP Doctor
10- Miller Cop

And then 4 scum roles.

As a many times host, I dont think that makes sense

But what if Dumey is Scum?

It's disingenuous of you to say "it's either Ctes/JC/Ben or Dumey/Han/Lea" and act like that's granted fact.

And it's manipulative of you to appeal to Sultan with that sort of disingenuous information.

Ben I wish I was yours and ctes scumbuddies because then it would mean I played a good scum game instead of a dumpster fire town game

:(

imma go back through some earlier stuff this afternoon before settling on anything

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yeah because I dont think it was actually at the forefront of his mind? That's what i get for all the reactions of "Well whats wrong with me voting to get pressure on Ctes". If he's scum then its all the talk on the scumboard, because today would be the day the scumboard is waiting for one stray vote to pile on. I think his scatter brain is a sign of someone who truly doesnt know who is scum and what is going on. You claim to feel the same, and yet have upmost confidence that i am scum and that it fits with the state of the game.

I think if you are town you would understand this.

And yes, I am asking you all of these questions in order to show Sultan what you are really thinking. Thank you for admitting you think Sultan is scum after me.

So then, who is the third?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's disingenuous of you to say "it's either Ctes/JC/Ben or Dumey/Han/Lea" and act like that's granted fact.

And it's manipulative of you to appeal to Sultan with that sort of disingenuous information.

I actually very much agree with this comment.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's disingenuous of you to say "it's either Ctes/JC/Ben or Dumey/Han/Lea" and act like that's granted fact.

And it's manipulative of you to appeal to Sultan with that sort of disingenuous information.

Its not a fact, but I think its as close to a fact as we have ever seen in an endgame situation before lol. Just by looking at who wants to kill who and who is unwilling to townclear who.

Apparently if Lea flips scum, Dumey is gonna cry. I choose to believe in a world where we save him from tears!

And for all of your whinging Ben, I DID prove that Scum isn't some combo of you, me, Lea, JC.

"Why would Han do this" there you go

If we think I am manipulating Sultan, then great. We're not scum together. Lets help Lea come up with a better scum list or we lynch her

Question

is town drunk a role that has existed with a scum redirector/town lazy tracker before?

i mean, i dont even know if theres even town lazy tracker precedent for my role, but Im curious if sultans has existed with a redirector around before

HanOfTheNekos posted...

And for all of your whinging Ben, I DID prove that Scum isn't some combo of you, me, Lea, JC.

"Why would Han do this" there you go

I know that I'm not scum so not sure why I needed that proven?

Chaeix posted...

Question

is town drunk a role that has existed with a scum redirector/town lazy tracker before?

i mean, i dont even know if theres even town lazy tracker precedent for my role, but Im curious if sultans has existed with a redirector around before

Yeah its fine. It just means Drunk would be this game's real Miller. We know by now Crescent was Miller in title only

Oh shit, did I miss the coordinated group strike?!?

Ben, I realize that me being offline all night means that you don't feel differently about me at all. But if you were to lynch me and I flipped town, and the game magically wasn't over somehow, would that paint CTes in a bad light for you that he wasn't lynched last night?

You seem to only be viewing this from the perspective of "the whole scum team was offline," and I haven't seen one mention of, "maybe Ctes wasn't hammered because he's scum."

You've admitted I'm a distant third in your scum team due to PoE, I would expect you to at least consider the idea.

Most games have at least one Miller equivalent, people just like to get creative over what that means so that its not always someone claiming Town miller first post every game.

I don't know if Drunk has been used for sure before, but I'd be willing to bet it has.

EDumey posted...

Oh shit, did I miss the coordinated group strike?!?

Ben, I realize that me being offline all night means that you don't feel differently about me at all. But if you were to lynch me and I flipped town, and the game magically wasn't over somehow, would that paint CTes in a bad light for you that he wasn't lynched last night?

You seem to only be viewing this from the perspective of "the whole scum team was offline," and I haven't seen one mention of, "maybe Ctes wasn't hammered because he's scum."

You've admitted I'm a distant third in your scum team due to PoE, I would expect you to at least consider the idea.

Oh yeah sure, that is a possibility. I would have to doublecheck and see if JC was around at that time either.

Or there coulkd just be two scum left and you're exonerated completely. There are many possibilities. I just dont want to close the doors on my proposed scum team

PunishedBen posted...

Its not a fact, but I think its as close to a fact as we have ever seen in an endgame situation before lol. Just by looking at who wants to kill who and who is unwilling to townclear who.

Apparently if Lea flips scum, Dumey is gonna cry. I choose to believe in a world where we save him from tears!

Didn't I make the crying remarks about if Han/JC/Sultan were the scum team? Tsk, tsk, another lie from Ben!
Though I would also probably shed a very manly tear if Lea betrayed me too, so you're not wrong.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

And for all of your whinging Ben, I DID prove that Scum isn't some combo of you, me, Lea, JC.

"Why would Han do this" there you go

I feel like this "proof" assumes that Ctes is town. After mislynching Sheep on an idea of him making a perspective error like this, would Han be more careful about something like this?

EDumey posted...

Didn't I make the crying remarks about if Han/JC/Sultan were the scum team? Tsk, tsk, another lie from Ben!
Though I would also probably shed a very manly tear if Lea betrayed me too, so you're not wrong.

Sorry. I didnt remember what you said exactly besides the crying if you're wrong about something part

EDumey posted...

I feel like this "proof" assumes that Ctes is town. After mislynching Sheep on an idea of him making a perspective error like this, would Han be more careful about something like this?

Dumey, for it to be a combo of those 3, Ctes would have to be Town.

3 of those 4 I mean

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's disingenuous of you to say "it's either Ctes/JC/Ben or Dumey/Han/Lea" and act like that's granted fact.

And it's manipulative of you to appeal to Sultan with that sort of disingenuous information.

I mean, now that Han thinks Sultan and Ctes are town I would like his help figuring out an updated scum team. Even if i have to be on it.

Fine, just Sultan

PunishedBen posted...

Yeah its fine. It just means Drunk would be this game's real Miller. We know by now Crescent was Miller in title only

Yes and no?

Ive been thinking a lot about the function of Crescents miller-ness.

Do we really think that the hosts decided to just slap on a useless miller tag to our cop?

It doesnt even really make sense from a guilty cop perspective? Like, the part of Crescents role that notifies scum of her scan.

The wording of whats revealed is kind of ambiguous too? But scum doesnt even really benefit from knowing Crescent is miller because if shes self-revealed they know shes miller cop, and they just kill her instead of trying something funky around the fact shes miller.

3+1 and independent ctes who has a cop scan?

idfk

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dumey, for it to be a combo of those 3, Ctes would have to be Town.

Hmm. I guess I read that post as you saying there wasn't any 2 of 3 in there. Because of the word combo and not full scum team. But I understand now.

Oh yeah I've seen it before. Like a game with a Miller but no cop.

In my final fantasy 14 game I did a Town Ninja, that can't be seen moving, but is otherwise a vanilla and can't move anyway. It's there for mind games. When that role claimed they thought they had to do something and it generated lots of discussion.

If it wasn't clear from my question to Ben above, because I know I am town and me being offline had no impact on a potential scum hammer, I think the fact that Han put Ctes to -2 and there was no Ctes lynch means that either Ctes is scum, or one of Han/Sultan is scum. I am inclined to believe it is just Ctes, but that's my analysis of last night's tomfoolery.

PunishedBen posted...

Oh yeah I've seen it before. Like a game with a Miller but no cop.

In my final fantasy 14 game I did a Town Ninja, that can't be seen moving, but is otherwise a vanilla and can't move anyway. It's there for mind games. When that role claimed they thought they had to do something and it generated lots of discussion.

but like, miller cop doesnt even scream conspiracy theories

like its so useless that it doesnt even make sense as a good red herring

idk Im grasping at straws

I didn't even think about Indy. But Q would make for a nice indy!

Independent neighborizer? Dumey you're not Q are you?

Chaeix posted...

but like, miller cop doesnt even scream conspiracy theories

like its so useless that it doesnt even make sense as a good red herring

idk Im grasping at straws

That's exactly why it's so big of a conspiracy. You're talking about it right now!

Honestly I don't know either, but the fact is it's there.

And an indy that cop scans to find scum and helps town makes 3 scum very unbalanced towards towns advantage so that is right out I'm afraid

PunishedBen posted...

That's exactly why it's so big of a conspiracy. You're talking about it right now!

i take your point but the fact that nobody has even raised this for the last few game days is a direct counterpoint

PunishedBen posted...

Honestly I don't know either, but the fact is it's there.

And an indy that cop scans to find scum and helps town makes 3 scum very unbalanced towards towns advantage so that is right out I'm afraid

no?

because crescent can only get one scan off on scum before they realize its her, and with a 3 man team theres a 1/3 chance of hitting GF.

crescent was not a full cop in the sense that she couldnt take down the scumteam solo with her scans

PunishedBen posted...

I didn't even think about Indy. But Q would make for a nice indy!

Independent neighborizer? Dumey you're not Q are you?

I already gave my flavor, bro. Zefram Cochrane. My flavor explanation is basically that I got stuck on an asteroid being kept alive for hundreds of years by The Companion and I was desperately bored of immortality, and looked for contact with another person.

Chaeix posted...

i take your point but the fact that nobody has even raised this for the last few game days is a direct counterpoint

I know for certain I mentioned the weirdness of Crescent being a miller before. And I feel like other people have commented on it too. It just ended up never going anywhere because we don't know any other interaction that would make it make sense.