Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic DS9: Kadir beneath Mo Moteh

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Crew:
1- ctes
2- EDumey
3- Han
4- JC
5- Lea
6- PunishedBen (BCT)
7- Sultan
8- UltimaterializerX
9- wallmasterz

Tribbles:
LD1 - SirChris - Harry Mudd, Scum Hammerer/Double Voter
KN1 - Death - Ensign Harry Kim, Town Vanilla
LD2 - Sheep - Kasidy Yates, Town Vanilla
KN2 - Crescent - Elim Garak, Town Miller Guilty Cop
LD3 - Isquen - Sylvia Tilly, Town Vanilla

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day ends Wednesday March 15th at 8pm EST.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

The same night JC claimed to be redirected.
A redirection that could have theoretically been used on Ulti to remove protection from Crescent.

Yes, you still don't think it can be belong to town? Scum not shooting Ulti can be explained by fearing busdrive, but it still doesn't make sense they then shoot the most likely doc target.

If it belongs to Town

Where is the claim?

wallmasterz posted...

Its not common sense to think if op bulletproof doc exists, theres not a town vig attached?

If ulti is doc and not bp then scum has not fired at him at all. In a game where, if you are town ctes, scum targeted crescent, crescent, jc and never bothered shooting ulti. If bp doc is so farfetched why would scum go after town power ulti can protect instead of ulti who is a sure shot because he cant protect himself. Make it make sense!

Don't ask me a question I already made my stance clear on instead of answering why you think those two roles are exclusive.

to ctes

You still never seemed to weigh in that your case against me builds on the premise of purposely making a horrible scum n1 playAND me risking not getting counterclaimed by an actual vig.

Not really a horrible play if it 1) kills town, 2) falsely confirms scum as town. I am still on the fence about Dumey but he made the point of questioning you that he was one of deaths biggest critics and he thought Chris flipping scum made death look very Town. So its debatable if death even made as good a mislynch candidate anymore.

as for the counterclaim, yeah it is a ballsy move. Its your best defense, but it doesnt mean your town. Havent gotten that far looking back yet but I recall we spent a while pondering the question before you claimed, and the whole bus driver/redirect thing easily couldve been floated to fish for anyone hinting at town vig or even outright claiming it.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Don't ask me a question I already made my stance clear on instead of answering why you think those two roles are exclusive.

Sure they could co-exist. But if bp doc is already overpowered to begin with to the point you are arguing it (probably) doesnt exist, i dont see why its a bad assumption on my part to think Town doesnt have bp doc and vig in a game with probably four scum to start.

Do you think town having a vig shot is such a huge plus given that

a) it can backfire as hard as it can hit
b) you only know one scum role for sure and it's strong
c) most other town roles are pretty bad

Im not locked in on ctes but he hasnt given me a good reason to move my vote yet either.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

If it belongs to Town

Where is the claim?

I don't think town not claiming it is out of the question. At least it's not difficult to see why they wouldn't to me. Maybe it explains Jc being the one who was shot at because of busdrive fear as said before. Although again, they should know how likely they are to shoot protection target then so those things might be unrelated. Can you not see this as a possible explanation? Keeping information hidden just won us the previous game after all!

wallmasterz posted...

Im not locked in on ctes but he hasnt given me a good reason to move my vote yet either.

Other than the one you admitted was a good reason?

Why did you not respond to my post that called you out for lying to me

ctesjbuvf posted...

Other than the one you admitted was a good reason?

Why did you not respond to my post that called you out for lying to me

I said it was your best defense. I dont recall saying it was a good reason, and I think the bad evidence against you far outweighs the good. Ill go back and reply to the lying one, hang on

What's Dumey's flavor?

Also, Dumey when you or your partner dies does the neighbor chat stay active or dissappear?

This was from ctes

First of all, JC and Isquen were in no way linked, if anything Isquen flipping town should just make your PoE wider, not somehow completely remove anyone from it.

But your first sentence there gives me reason to be concerned. You had supposedly already reread that whole thing and then reading it for a third time knowing Isquen's alignment makes you not just feel better about him, but move him all the way to confirmed tier. Yet JC's list actually does not appear until a bit into topic 2 and he's being attacked for it for the rest of the topic, so how is your first sentence not you lying?

Jcs list where he said he liked mzero engaging in a proper discussion while here got a lot of negative attention. When I went back and re-read, I saw the posts by mzero and felt the negativity was overblown. But yes I used isquen and perhaps shouldve said mzero for clarity.

I also said jcs drive to solve the game has won me over and I agree with ulti, if hes scum then gg. But I believe his lazy tracker claim, I believe he got misdirected and I believe he scanned me all of which make me view him as more town. I brought up the list to address one of the early red flags around jc.

I would have to go back and look, I honestly believed jc did a list in t1 but even if its t2, I already said I got a little ways into t2. Im reading this stuff in the middle of the night while my son is awake. I have never lied during this game but Im more than l willing to admit I might have made a mistake.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yeah, my whole approach to the end of d1 had to do with feeling completely unsure of who to vote for among Han, Death and Chris. I didnt want to cast what mightve been the deciding vote on a whim. It was my first (in game) day playing and I suspected ulti, then sultan was the chosen one for Chris and I turned my attention to sultan. I wanted to see if sultan would move his vote to ulti if he felt like he wouldnt be alone, but I took too long catching up with the reading and there was maybe 5 minutes until end of day by the time I posted.

I mean the MZero posts were always super easy to find, I think a few people even commented on them when JC brought them up.

I think it would be a weird mistake given that if you got a bit into topic 2 you would have to have not gotten to the point yet or been in the middle of JC getting attacked for this given that is still going on by the end of the topic. Yet you mentioned this as a reason above believing those three things, two of which were claimed yesterday as well, when I asked you. And you seemingly completely missed this post this first time, and you're still basically ignoring the first part of the post it was in?

For someone rereading again you sure aren't very careful at reading the current day. Am I supposed to believe you're scumhunting when you don't truly engage in a conversation with your suspects?

What part of your question do you feel like I didnt address? How Isquen flipping town shouldve widened my PoE?

wallmasterz posted...

What part of your question do you feel like I didnt address? How Isquen flipping town shouldve widened my PoE?

The whole upper part of the post that you just quoted yourself!

Or in this topic where you stopped answering in our conversation about Ulti's and my roles existing.

UltimaterializerX posted...

If Dumey flips scum I think our other power roles are all in the clear, too, which sorts out the vig mess.

I'm not saying to ignore Dumey, but I don't follow this logic.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Because I had zero clue what to do with Chris/death/Han I decided to use my vote to see how Sultan might react. Having been suspicious of ulti all day I thought it was odd he made a huge deal of ultis vote on him then unvoted. Sultan voting and unvoting ulti made me wonder if there was some bussing going on between the two. Thwarting anyone and joining or hindering any tag team efforts wasnt on my radar, to be honest.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Dumey mentioned indy unprompted day 1. I actually think if he flips scum, we get some insight into whether or not one exists and whether this game is 10/3/1 or 10/4.

My poe continues to be

Ben/BCT
Dumey
Ctes.

If it's 10 3 1 the 1 is totally ctes.

Also the fact Ctes hasn't claimed flavor is odd

Just going to leave this here and invite everyone to read it again.

8.357 Every other power role, EVERY SINGLE ONE, is a variant.

Vig being a normal thing stands out like a tumor, and I think Wall just stumbled onto why. ctes as scum fakeclaimed it before knowing all of towns roles are variants.

Its also a literal perfect fake claim, because no one would have questioned shooting Death there. Well done, ctes. (Ulti)

8.367 All power roles being variants is some pretty bad meta stuff. (Ctes)

8.378 You're implying a pretty huge scum trap from hosts side, that's not clever game design. (Ctes)

Sultan, who have you bumbled into each night?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This is great lol. Thanks.

So the current narrative is that scum's kill got blocked not once but TWICE. Maybe things arent as cut and dry as I think. I guess the question is does it make sense for scum to think someone else is getting protected last night over JC. Because sure the first night no kill could have been a gambit to clear Ctes, but this one can only be a mistake, right?. Otherwise JC would have been blocked or redirected. This is why i continue to believe Ulti is town above other potential gambits

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My poe continues to be

Ben/BCT
Dumey
Ctes.

If it's 10 3 1 the 1 is totally ctes.

Also the fact Ctes hasn't claimed flavor is odd

I think this is a criminally wrong POE so that doesnt make me feel good about Sultan.

As Ulti said, too many vanilla claims left for all of them to be telling the truth. And you happened to pick the one that I know for sure is vanilla.

I still stand by 4 scum being overbalanced, esp. if Ctes is Town.

Two mislynches (one of which Chris hammers) and a Vig hitting Town is not that hard to accomplish. And I mean, if Vig doesn't exist, Scum can still get 5 votes and hammer on Day 3, leading to winning game state.

Question for everyone. Why does Wall, who attacks Ulti for not answering to my questions day 2, continue to ignore my questions to him again and again?

Hey I'm not gonna act like other people should magically know I'm town. I'm just using what I know. For what its worth I thought BCT was town before replacing him and if I thought he was anything else I wouldnt have offered to replace. Its truly agonizing to read but the passion and frustration coming out of him is real

Okay I could be giving Walls to much benefit of the doubt but I didn't like BCTs play his reactions were very backwards for a vanilla. And Ben has been like ahit posting 70% of the time since replacing

Why benct is my poe over Walls.

Han I just can't see it same with Lea. So outta that it leaves you and walls

Chaeix posted...

Sultan, who have you bumbled into each night?

Ohh I'm not ignoring you I am not told who I bump into.

The weirdest thing about Ben is he came in speaking decisively, has said he was keeping up with the game before replacing in, but also is still catching up and has not been keeping up with the game,

How do we feel about Dumey's neighborizer role's variation in that he could only select a target to open chat with during the day phase and not at night? Is this a quirk that makes more sense to give to a scum role or town role in this setup? I feel like it has to be a clue to his alignment and not completely random.

I think its at least a real restriction (that he didnt make up), because of how he felt like claiming first post since his role could be revealed by the day's end.

An even bigger point is that scum needs some kind of incentive to actually use this role and be locked in with town all game. If Dumey is scum wouldnt he be better off just not using it at all?

I think Dumey can only be scum if lea is also scum. Otherwise why would scum Dumey feel comfortable locking himself in with a town Lea WHO AT THE TIME was sussing out Chris? (I am not 100% sure of the timing).

So i only see Dumey as scum if Lea is a scum buddy. Dumey scum/Lea town is not possible. Dumey town/Lea scum is possible. (Sorry lea)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

The weirdest thing about Ben is he came in speaking decisively, has said he was keeping up with the game before replacing in, but also is still catching up and has not been keeping up with the game,

I said i was "following" the game. And that I ULTRA skimmed. I thought I made it pretty clear first post my following along was flimsy

UltimaterializerX posted...

The entire point of mafia neighbor is locking yourself with town. That is such a weak argument.

Well isn't that the point if neighbor is one could be scum?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Question for everyone. Why does Wall, who attacks Ulti for not answering to my questions day 2, continue to ignore my questions to him again and again?

I am not trying to ignore you. I think its evident Im not ignoring you even if Ive missed a question along the way. I am trying to juggle work, family and keeping up with this game. I think youre scum and I feel like youre trying to keep me busy defending myself instead of building a case against you. Yet I am still trying to answer your questions and its only fair to do so. I still dont understand why my response about jc and the list wasnt good enough for you and I also admitted Im capable of being wrong.

The issue with Dumey being Scum is his role fitting in with the implied roles for Scum that have been claimed.

UltimaterializerX posted...

The entire point of mafia neighbor is locking yourself with town. That is such a weak argument.

Yeah, but Lea? Who soul read Dumey day 1 last game? Lea voted him that day 1 and was basically night killed for it. It would be very bold of Dumey. Though maybe that is a play Dumey could make and he wanted redemption from last game and truly thought he could convince Lea he's town? But the other point is that Lea IS convinced. So it would be not only bold but also worked out for him. I won't count it out as a possibility