Board 8 > Post your hot takes regarding Final Fantasy

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Lopen
03/14/23 8:02:12 PM
#102:


I literally beat FFX the first time through without a guide without ever fielding Kimahri or Lulu except when storyline necessary.

Kimahri's solo fight is trivial because Biran and Yenke level with him.

Just because you have OCD doesn't mean the game is poorly designed for enabling you to waste your time doing something that's not necessary

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masterplum
03/14/23 8:02:30 PM
#103:


Yeah, I also never used Kimhari and it was never a problem

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LightningStrikes
03/14/23 8:33:48 PM
#104:


Stormblood is, overall, better than Heavensward - Heavensward has the better story but Stormbloods gameplay improvements, dungeons, trials, and areas give it the edge. This used to be a generally held opinion but now it seems like a hot take.

Shadowbringers is great but not a huge leap over the previous two expansions, more of a steady improvement. Endwalker on the other hand IS a big leap in quality.

A pretty cold take now but Vincent was never a good character, just a character design that looked stylish in the 90s. I was shocked he was so popular when I first played the game and that was back in 2006, he has aged even worse by now. So this is kind of hot take vindication. You can contrast that with Auron, who has a cool design but also is actually well written.

VIIs script significantly hurts the game as is and its ridiculous that none of the modern versions have an up-to-date translation, although the PC translation they use is marginally better.

The World of Ruin is better than the World of Balance and was truly ahead of its time.

After XIV and what weve heard of XVI, the series should stick with British VO going forward. XIV runs rings around the rest of the series in terms of voice acting (this one might not be that hot I dont know).

The series should drop numbers because its getting silly now.

Balthier is a fairly dull character people latched onto as the XII cast is so dry. The only really good character in that game is Basch.

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Lopen
03/14/23 8:37:17 PM
#105:


LightningStrikes posted...
Balthier is a fairly dull character people latched onto as the XII cast is so dry. The only really good character in that game is Basch.

I was very close to putting this verbatim minus stanning for Basch but I didn't feel like FFXII needed dissing.

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UshiromiyaEva
03/14/23 8:42:17 PM
#106:


LightningStrikes posted...
Stormblood is, overall, better than Heavensward - Heavensward has the better story but Stormbloods gameplay improvements, dungeons, trials, and areas give it the edge. This used to be a generally held opinion but now it seems like a hot take.

It's become a hot take because more and more people, especially after the Shadowbringers explosion, are getting into the game without the experience of how the old content used to play, and unlike myself most people aren't going to seek out that information out of curiosity. An enormous portion of the player base has no idea that melee skills used to cost meter, or that sprinting used your entire bar up. It's hard to appreciate the advancements when you never saw the original, and as a result the only thing people DO take into consideration is the story.

Just imagine, nobody starting up now is EVER going to experience Netflix Roulette.

I do think there's still obvious signs of the improvements in Stormblood though. The trials are definitely at the forefront of that.

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Leonhart4
03/14/23 8:44:15 PM
#107:


I'm fine with the series sticking with British VAs (although it's almost become cliche for every story with a medieval type setting to use British accents). I just wish they'd do away with the nonsense terminology because it's getting into Tales territory.

I don't think WoR > WoB is a hot take, the opinions on which is better seem fairly split.

FFXII actually has several good characters (Balthier, Basch, Ashe, Dr. Cid, and Gabranth in particular are quite good). They're just wasted by FFXII's storytelling.

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redrocket
03/14/23 8:50:21 PM
#108:


Its BS that they need to stick with exclusively British talent. Theres plenty of wonderful American/Canadian VAs. Square just has to, you know, hire them.

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andylt
03/14/23 8:52:41 PM
#109:


LightningStrikes posted...
Balthier is a fairly dull character people latched onto as the XII cast is so dry. The only really good character in that game is Basch.
Yay another Balthier-disliker! I like both Basch and Ashe much more. I played Revenant Wings last year and was surprised that Balthier annoyed me more than anyone else in the game, Vaan and Penelo take a big step up (relatively) in terms of character and he's just this snarky asshole. Fran is super boring and trope-y, too.

'Dagger can't concentrate' was a decent way of integrating gameplay and story and didn't bother me in the slightest.
Shiva is a boring summon. There's so many cool freaky designs and she's always just a blue bikini lady.
Kain Highwind is a bad character.
IX's Garland is one of my fav villains in the series (a low bar tbf)
VIII's narrative would be improved by merging Ultimecia and Adel into a single character.

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Leonhart4
03/14/23 9:05:09 PM
#110:


You're saying VIII would be improved by Time Kompression succeeding?

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Thorn
03/14/23 9:07:42 PM
#111:


if it meant compression of time played more often i think that's an indisputable fact tbqh

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jcgamer107
03/14/23 9:21:53 PM
#112:


Lopen posted...
Disses FF battle systems

Likes Pokemon

Need we say more
I like the constraints of 1v1 battles

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KamikazePotato
03/14/23 9:34:27 PM
#113:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
I also recently found out that the HD version of FFX actually has way worse faces and boy that sucks! Some of those comparison shots are damning, the HD version basically got rid of all emotional expressions in the game.
Looked this up and wtf

This is their second-biggest offline game in the series, how did they screw it up so bad

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LeonhartFour
03/14/23 9:43:33 PM
#114:


the HD version made some missteps, yeah

most of the song remixes are worse than the originals, too

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UshiromiyaEva
03/14/23 9:49:22 PM
#115:


It's strange to me that I never saw it come up until super recently, especially with how much scrutiny HD rereleases get nowadays.

I guess it was a different time? Big HD rerelease were a lot rarer then. Even side releases got completely screwed up at the time like Sonic Adventure DX, and few people seemed to care.

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KamikazePotato
03/14/23 10:03:02 PM
#116:


https://preview.redd.it/l6imih156jna1.jpg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=756ee934217cd45e80e2c2d97c3f111763110f0c

https://preview.redd.it/duzi09b56jna1.jpg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=b221ff295e531ad5e659868be6a22fe7c6deb154

ew

LeonhartFour posted...
the HD version made some missteps, yeah

most of the song remixes are worse than the originals, too
Playing Theatrhythm recently made me notice how much of a downgrade the FF12 Zodiac OST is compared to the original. Thankfully that game at least looks really good.

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Leonhart4
03/14/23 10:19:38 PM
#117:


Nah, people criticized FFX HD even at the time. The faces were definitely worse and the OST was decidedly inferior.

It's like the people who say nobody complained about FFVII's Lego models at the time. Yeah, we did. It just got more pronounced over time as graphics got better.

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KamikazePotato
03/14/23 10:21:12 PM
#118:


I didn't pay attention to FFX HD when it came out so this is news to me! Should've gotten this disappointment over with years ago.

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UshiromiyaEva
03/14/23 10:23:34 PM
#119:


KamikazePotato posted...
https://preview.redd.it/l6imih156jna1.jpg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=756ee934217cd45e80e2c2d97c3f111763110f0c

https://preview.redd.it/duzi09b56jna1.jpg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=b221ff295e531ad5e659868be6a22fe7c6deb154

ew

Playing Theatrhythm recently made me notice how much of a downgrade the FF12 Zodiac OST is compared to the original. Thankfully that game at least looks really good.

Literally everything in the HD version looks worse other than the skybox in the first pic.

And it's not niversally a better skybox since in the second pic the HD skybox is way worse!

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MZero
03/14/23 10:34:08 PM
#120:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
Not being difficult and not being an annoying, pointless time waster are two very different things.

Wakka not getting experience because I don't want to swap him in for a pointless pot shot every single fight in an area with no birds is bad game design.

If you don't want to use Wakka why do you care if he gets exp

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MZero
03/15/23 12:08:31 AM
#121:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
encouraging grinding

also the irony here is that FFX requires the least grinding in the series because you can beat the game at your starting stats

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KamikazePotato
03/15/23 12:19:22 AM
#122:


FFX is basically the only game in the series where I didn't feel the need to grind at some point. It has a near-perfect difficulty curve and sense of progression.

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NeatoAnAccount
03/15/23 12:30:16 AM
#123:


mark rosewater, the head designer of magic the gathering, says that amateur game designers will design cards that "read well" without concern for whether they're actually fun to play

whoops this is hot takes about final fantasy. sorry for making you read that, it doesn't elucidate my criticisms of this series at all

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MacArrowny
03/15/23 12:55:24 AM
#124:


redrocket posted...
Its BS that they need to stick with exclusively British talent. Theres plenty of wonderful American/Canadian VAs. Square just has to, you know, hire them.
Eh, some Square games use American/Canadian VAs, like Forspoken and Octopath Traveler 2, which released in the last two months. I assume Star Ocean 6 and Valkyrie Elysium did as well. Not sure why they shouldn't be allowed to hire anyone British.

But also American VAs who dub Japanese games are generally pretty low quality anyway. Like, playing Xenoblade 2, it's amazing how much worse the American VAs in that are than the UK ones. And it's the same with FF - FFX has the worst dub, and uses American VAs!

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KamikazePotato
03/15/23 1:13:36 AM
#125:


FFX's dub is from 2001. 'American dubs are sub-par' hasn't been true for like 15 years, and hearing it now is just tedious. Anime fans already parrot that enough - don't feel like dealing with it in the video game space too.

MacArrowny posted...
Like, playing Xenoblade 2, it's amazing how much worse the American VAs in that are than the UK ones.
Extremely bizarre take. Rex is the worst voice in that game, and he's British. Also, aren't most of the American accents in that game done by UK people doing American voices?

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UshiromiyaEva
03/15/23 1:15:46 AM
#126:


KamikazePotato posted...
FFX's dub is from 2001. 'American dubs are sub-par' hasn't been true for like 15 years, and hearing it now is just tedious. Anime fans already parrot that enough, don't feel like dealing with it in the video game space too.

To be fair...Square dubs specifically are bad pretty often. Dunno about Octopath 2, but Octopath 1's was painful. Triangle Strategy, though I'm only 2 chapters in, pretty rough. Star Ocean 6 as was just mentioned had horrendous voice acting in the demo.

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#127
Post #127 was unavailable or deleted.
KamikazePotato
03/15/23 1:19:52 AM
#128:


Octopath 1's dub was fine. Not their best, but fine. That game's problems stemmed from the writing - bad lines and whatever they tried to do with Haanit. Voices will always sound worse when the material they're given doesn't work.

Can't comment on Triangle Strategy, but I 100% believe that Star Ocean 6 has bad voice acting despite knowing nothing about it.

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MacArrowny
03/15/23 1:42:04 AM
#129:


KamikazePotato posted...
FFX's dub is from 2001. 'American dubs are sub-par' hasn't been true for like 15 years, and hearing it now is just tedious. Anime fans already parrot that enough - don't feel like dealing with it in the video game space too.
*Shrug* I stand by it. American cartoons have much better voice acting than American anime dubs, and American games have much better voice acting than American dubs of Japanese games.

Octopath 2 is a nice recent exception to that rule. Fire Emblem Three Houses/Hopes and Engage are examples that support it.

KamikazePotato posted...
Also, aren't most of the American accents in that game done by UK people doing American voices?
Are they? I guess that would explain why they aren't so good. Pyra/Mythra stood out as the worst ones to me. Seems like their VA is British, but has American parents...

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Joelypoely
03/15/23 2:08:13 AM
#130:


Cavedweller2000 posted...
FFXII soundtrack is top tier


I like this take. I wouldn't put it quite in top tier myself, however The Dalmasca Estersand, Streets of Rabanastre, On the Riverbank and Eruyt Village are all top tier songs.

Probably X, X-2, XII and XIII are the best Piano Collection albums

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UshiromiyaEva
03/15/23 2:11:30 AM
#131:


I was going to say that FFXII having one of the worst final boss designs ever for any video game in execution may be a hot take, but I don't think I'm gonna get a lot of pushback.

Sounds neat on paper, but one of the worst translations to an in game model conceivable.

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KamikazePotato
03/15/23 2:20:24 AM
#132:


FF12 has some really good tracks. Very few of them were in Theatrhythm and that kinda sucks.

MacArrowny posted...
Fire Emblem Three Houses/Hopes and Engage are examples that support it.
I've seen near-universal praise for the dub voice acting in all of these games.

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UshiromiyaEva
03/15/23 2:23:54 AM
#133:


All 3 of those FE games have EXCELLENT dubs, so it's absolutely appropriate to say otherwise in a hot take thread!

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Xiahou_Shake
03/15/23 2:33:32 AM
#134:


Yeah I'll definitely add my, erm, voice to the pushback on American VA work being bad. Things haven't been "bad" in a blanket sense since we moved past the PS1 era (which even then had insane stuff like MGS1) and they're actually generally really fucking good now for both games and anime.

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lordjers
03/15/23 2:52:13 AM
#135:


FF6, and specially 9 are the ones I've enjoyed the least.


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LightningStrikes
03/15/23 4:38:19 AM
#136:


Well its not so much that American voice acting is bad as much as that the series has not had fantastic luck with it and VIIR aside has at best sounded like a typical 2000s anime dub. I do think I will agree though that generally American-dubbed Japanese games dont sound as good as other instances of American voice acting because they rely on a pretty small talent pool and it can get repetitive. There are exceptions and Three Houses is among them.

As for Xenoblade 2 it was mostly Americans living in the UK or British-Americans like Pyra/Mythras actress. Also Rex is great he just has like four duff lines though unfortunately these all got lumped together right at the start of the game. The problem is the game was rushed to release in the Switchs first calendar year so the voice acting in both English and Japanese suffered for the first few chapters.

Xiahou_Shake posted...
Yeah I'll definitely add my, erm, voice to the pushback on American VA work being bad. Things haven't been "bad" in a blanket sense since we moved past the PS1 era (which even then had insane stuff like MGS1) and they're actually generally really fucking good now for both games and anime.

Id say it was more recent than that, about midway through the 360/Wii/PS3 generation was when game VA got reliably good, although there were a lot of good examples before then.

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KamikazePotato
03/15/23 5:03:26 AM
#137:


I've heard varying horror stories about how Xenoblade 2 was handled. One that pops up a lot (although I don't know how true it is) is that they were allowed just one take for everything and were given zero direction or context. Which does actually line up with the VA improving as the game progresses, and as the actors presumably started to figure out what the heck was going on.

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LightningStrikes
03/15/23 5:15:26 AM
#138:


So that one in particular is a case of a statement getting made and then fandom exaggerating it wildly. There was always direction obviously, but what context they had varied. Sometimes they had nothing, sometimes they had animatics or art, sometimes they had full cutscenes. It was basically I THINK whatever was ready. Its no secret that the game came in extremely hot to hit that 2017 date although given its success it was strategically the right decision.

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Leonhart4
03/15/23 2:01:31 PM
#139:


Dubs > subs imhotbqh

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MacArrowny
03/15/23 2:09:28 PM
#140:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
All 3 of those FE games have EXCELLENT dubs, so it's absolutely appropriate to say otherwise in a hot take thread!
You're crazy if you think the FE games have voice acting on the level of American games. God of War, Mass Effect, Control, etc. all have much better performances.

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MZero
03/15/23 2:10:53 PM
#141:


Leonhart4 posted...
Dubs > subs imhotbqh

worst take in the thread

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Crescent-Moon
03/15/23 2:17:48 PM
#142:


Almost every character in IX ranges from annoying to awful.

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UshiromiyaEva
03/15/23 2:18:48 PM
#143:


MacArrowny posted...
You're crazy if you think the FE games have voice acting on the level of American games. God of War, Mass Effect, Control, etc. all have much better performances.

There are different intentions in the performances.

If Fire Emblem characters sounded like Mass Effect characters it would be fucking wierd.

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MZero
03/15/23 2:33:45 PM
#144:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Almost every character in IX ranges from annoying to awful.

Now we're back on track

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Leonhart4
03/15/23 2:42:24 PM
#145:


I prefer to hear stuff in English. Hearing something in another language does nothing for me, and it has to be pretty bad voice acting for me to even be bothered by it (Triangle Strategy has a few of them).

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MacArrowny
03/15/23 2:51:29 PM
#146:


Leonhart4 posted...
I prefer to hear stuff in English. Hearing something in another language does nothing for me, and it has to be pretty bad voice acting for me to even be bothered by it (Triangle Strategy has a few of them).
I'm not comparing dubs to using another language, I'm comparing dubs to natively voiced games in the same language.

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Leonhart4
03/15/23 3:10:52 PM
#147:


Which is fine, but I don't care if other games have better voice acting.

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MacArrowny
03/15/23 3:44:24 PM
#148:


Leonhart4 posted...
Which is fine, but I don't care if other games have better voice acting.
You... don't want Japanese games to have better English voice acting? Weird.

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Leonhart4
03/15/23 3:45:19 PM
#149:


MacArrowny posted...
You... don't want Japanese games to have better English voice acting? Weird.

I do, but I'm also not bothered that Final Fantasy's voice acting isn't as good as Mass Effect's.

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MacArrowny
03/15/23 3:46:13 PM
#150:


Well, that's the point. Since we've switched to British voice actors for FF, FF's voice acting has moved to a higher tier, closer to the level of native Western games.

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Leonhart4
03/15/23 3:49:00 PM
#151:


MacArrowny posted...
Well, that's the point. Since we've switched to British voice actors for FF, FF's voice acting has moved to a higher tier, closer to the level of native Western games.

Voice acting has been pretty good since XII, yeah

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