Poll of the Day > Would the popularity of isekai imply that dying is the most desired fantasy?

Topic List
Page List: 1
Lokarin
03/04/23 7:29:12 PM
#1:


Kinda morbid

---
"Salt cures Everything!"
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos
... Copied to Clipboard!
slacker03150
03/04/23 7:56:16 PM
#2:


Isn't it though? Christianity you die and get to go to paradise, bhuddists, you die and get a better life, mormans get their own planet, etc.

And starting a new life with new opportunities was the entire selling point to North American immigration.

Pretty standard fantasy really.

---
I am awesome and so are you.
Lenny gone but not forgotten. - 12/10/2015
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/04/23 8:09:49 PM
#3:


depends on the isekai's setup. mushoku tensei, dr elise (to an extent)? it's about redeeming yourself after you got "unlucky" and never rectified yourself. black company isekai like death march, by the grace of gods, or i shall master this family? it's about the desire to prove your worth and be loved/respected by others for the effort you've always put in. illness isekai like leadale? it's just a fantasy about being able to do whatever you want, because before you couldn't do anything. eminence in shadow? no deeper subtext, MC is a fucking chuuni and watching him wreck people is just fun

the death aspect is less about desiring death and more about wanting a total reset

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0
03/04/23 10:35:14 PM
#4:


I know shit takes are cool to do on this board, but people have shit lives. Having the shit end and you get a second chance to live the ideal fantasy life sounds pretty fucking good.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Arcturusisnow
03/04/23 11:00:12 PM
#5:


agesboy posted...
depends on the isekai's setup. mushoku tensei, dr elise (to an extent)? it's about redeeming yourself after you got "unlucky" and never rectified yourself. black company isekai like death march, by the grace of gods, or i shall master this family? it's about the desire to prove your worth and be loved/respected by others for the effort you've always put in. illness isekai like leadale? it's just a fantasy about being able to do whatever you want, because before you couldn't do anything. eminence in shadow? no deeper subtext, MC is a fucking chuuni and watching him wreck people is just fun

the death aspect is less about desiring death and more about wanting a total reset
It's less of a total reset for and Isekai protag because they remember their previous life. A total reset would infer that you lose said memories.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles
03/04/23 11:25:21 PM
#6:


Life is full of suffering, why would anyone want to think this is the best there is?

---
Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/04/23 11:56:50 PM
#7:


Arcturusisnow posted...
It's less of a total reset for and Isekai protag because they remember their previous life. A total reset would infer that you lose said memories.
that does happen sometimes (like with Black Summoner) but it also infers a destruction of personality, which most people would rather avoid because they like themselves even if they think they're themselves shit

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/05/23 12:30:56 AM
#8:


i, unfortunately, am probably the biggest isekai fan on potd

ama

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0
03/05/23 12:46:27 AM
#9:


agesboy posted...
i, unfortunately, am probably the biggest isekai fan on potd

ama

Are you sure?
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/05/23 12:51:43 AM
#10:


yes :(

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
slacker03150
03/05/23 12:52:48 AM
#11:


agesboy posted...
i, unfortunately, am probably the biggest isekai fan on potd

ama
Why is ascendance of a bookworm the best isekai?

---
I am awesome and so are you.
Lenny gone but not forgotten. - 12/10/2015
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/05/23 12:57:10 AM
#12:


slacker03150 posted...
Why is ascendance of a bookworm the best isekai?
it appeals to people who don't like isekai in the opposite way; the MC isn't handed some gifts by god, she earns her place through not only knowledge but trial and learning. she still hits isekai points in the middle of the 1st and 2nd arcs tho

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
hmnut7
03/05/23 11:06:05 AM
#13:


Isekai is a pretty straight forward wish fulfillment fantasy of going from the boring world to a more interesting world. OR at least going to a world where you (projecting on to the protagonist) can be a more interesting person.

Since 99.9999% of isekai is boring person with boring life goes to fantasy world and becomes Awesome McAwesomeson... isekai is the most wish fulfillment of all wish fulfillment.

If the desire with isekai was a death fantasy, then conservatively the focus would be less on how awesome the person becomes in their new life and more how important it was to let go of their old life.

the focus would either be on how they were weak or sick or incredibly sad or lonely, or specifically ready to "move on".

Isekai can have those things but it is not a common enough theme to say 'that's' what the whole genre is about.

Many (if not most) Isekai barely address the old life, usually just a few random references (usually just to establish how ordinary the protagonist was).

I think you have to dig really really deep into subtext and metaphors to read a death analogy into isekai as a whole, and if you're going that deep down the rabbit hole, you've passed the "reason something is popular"

---
Starfire: "They are too numerous to fight. What shall we do?"
Robin: "Fight anyway!"
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin
03/05/23 11:09:32 AM
#14:


I'm saying that if you remove Episode 1... isekei are basic power fantasies

but because of Episode 1, people just want to die

---
"Salt cures Everything!"
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos
... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI
03/05/23 12:58:18 PM
#15:


BlackScythe0 posted...
I know shit takes are cool to do on this board, but people have shit lives. Having the shit end and you get a second chance to live the ideal fantasy life sounds pretty fucking good.
I think this isekai trend says something about our society

---
In the long run we are all dead
... Copied to Clipboard!
hmnut7
03/05/23 1:29:53 PM
#16:


Lokarin posted...
I'm saying that if you remove Episode 1... isekei are basic power fantasies

but because of Episode 1, people just want to die
Giving you the absolute maximum (and last) benefit of the doubt, I think that may just be what YOU see in isekai. Aka maybe that's YOUR fantasy.

First not all (I don't even think most) start with the main character in their normal life. Many start with the MC in the fantasy world.

Isekai could be a stand in for death, but it is much more directly a stand in for CHANGE. And change could mean any number of things.

Isekai's popularity is exactly the same as "chosen one" fantasy, where the draw is telling the audience

Hey I know you think you've been told you're like everyone else but actually you're super duper special, you just need to wait and sooner or later someone is going to show you how special you are, or take you someplace where they realize how special you are.

People are not happy with their lives, this is true, but isekai gives the fantasy of change, not specially death.

---
Starfire: "They are too numerous to fight. What shall we do?"
Robin: "Fight anyway!"
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin
03/05/23 1:47:14 PM
#17:


hmnut7 posted...
I think that may just be what YOU see in isekai

well ya, I can only comment on my tiny window

---
"Salt cures Everything!"
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos
... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky
03/05/23 3:53:47 PM
#18:


Not every isekai involves dying to get there.
That's a far more modern (like 2010 or so onwards) thing. And even then, not always, like Rising of the Shield Hero.

A lot of the earlier isekai stories just involved going through a portal or something, and since the main character never died, getting back home is still hoped for or expected.
Examples: Urashima Taro, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Fushigi Yuugi, El Hazard: The Magnificent World, Spirited Away, etc...
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin
03/05/23 3:54:43 PM
#19:


streamofthesky posted...
Not every isekai involves dying to get there.
That's a far more modern (like 2010 or so onwards) thing. And even then, not always, like Rising of the Shield Hero.

fair enough, I'm mostly making fun of the trend

---
"Salt cures Everything!"
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos
... Copied to Clipboard!
Count_Drachma
03/05/23 8:00:27 PM
#20:


BlackScythe0 posted...
I know shit takes are cool to do on this board, but people have shit lives. Having the shit end and you get a second chance to live the ideal fantasy life sounds pretty fucking good.

People in general tend to be unhappy, regardless of their circumstances.

hmnut7 posted...
Giving you the absolute maximum (and last) benefit of the doubt, I think that may just be what YOU see in isekai. Aka maybe that's YOUR fantasy.

First not all (I don't even think most) start with the main character in their normal life. Many start with the MC in the fantasy world.

Isekai could be a stand in for death, but it is much more directly a stand in for CHANGE. And change could mean any number of things.

Isekai's popularity is exactly the same as "chosen one" fantasy, where the draw is telling the audience

On top of that,, the condition of an ordinary person in an extraordinary otherworld adds to storytelling you wouldn't just get with a story set in that other world.

---
Everybody's got a price / Everybody's got to pay / Because the Million Drachma Man / Always gets his way. AhahahahMMH
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin
03/05/23 8:14:08 PM
#21:


Count_Drachma posted...
On top of that,, the condition of an ordinary person in an extraordinary otherworld adds to storytelling you wouldn't just get with a story set in that other world.

So teleport there, like Monster Rancher or Inuyasha

---
"Salt cures Everything!"
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos
... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66
03/05/23 10:50:49 PM
#22:


My favorite ones tend to be the ones with something of a twist on the concept, like The Devil is a Part-Timer being sort of a reversekai, or Bofuri being set in a VR game where the characters are never in actual mortal danger

---
PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69
Big bombs go kabang.
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/06/23 1:46:46 AM
#23:


Metalsonic66 posted...
My favorite ones tend to be the ones with something of a twist on the concept, like The Devil is a Part-Timer being sort of a reversekai, or Bofuri being set in a VR game where the characters are never in actual mortal danger
you gotta go for light novels or manga if you want the really big/weird twists on the formula

https://j-novel.club/series/reincarnated-as-an-apple
https://j-novel.club/series/grand-sumo-villainess
https://j-novel.club/series/her-majesty-s-swarm

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Tag365
03/07/23 12:17:38 AM
#24:


agesboy posted...
you gotta go for light novels or manga if you want the really big/weird twists on the formula

https://j-novel.club/series/reincarnated-as-an-apple
https://j-novel.club/series/grand-sumo-villainess
https://j-novel.club/series/her-majesty-s-swarm

I wasn't expecting the second one to exist but now that I know it does, I'm interested in the story.

---
Mr. Skuntank
... Copied to Clipboard!
Zedonra
03/07/23 12:36:36 AM
#25:


In Japan it might be, dying to get out of the hell of their overworked lives into something resembling fun and excitement

America is slowly becoming that way too with the slow death of the middle class, unless something is done about it

---
Playing: XB3, TotA, Grime MHR:SB, MHW: IB | MR329+/HR 561+ | LS/CB/GS/BOW "The imagination is a weapon, those who don't use it, die first"
... Copied to Clipboard!
agesboy
03/07/23 3:19:01 AM
#26:


Tag365 posted...
I wasn't expecting the second one to exist but now that I know it does, I'm interested in the story.
you know how in Fate there's reality marbles where they force their reality on others

she can force a sumo battle on anyone

---
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.
... Copied to Clipboard!
sveksii
03/07/23 9:21:26 AM
#27:


Lokarin posted...
So teleport there, like Monster Rancher or Inuyasha
Because death changes the dynamics. If you died you presumably have no chance of returning to your original life and for better or worse you're stuck with your new life. Something like teleportation otoh leaves a possibility that you could be able to return to your old life.
... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky
03/07/23 10:00:57 AM
#28:


sveksii posted...
Because death changes the dynamics. If you died you presumably have no chance of returning to your original life and for better or worse you're stuck with your new life. Something like teleportation otoh leaves a possibility that you could be able to return to your old life.

I always was annoyed how in most of the "old" isekai where it was teleportation, they'd just go back at the end.
But I also dislike how in the "you died" version, they generally stay because...they have to.

My favorite situation is one where they end up in the strange world, initially want to go back home (obviously), but over time learn to love their new world as their home and decide to stay there, of their own volition.
... Copied to Clipboard!
slacker03150
03/07/23 1:13:40 PM
#29:


It's been a while but isn't that what happened with inuyasha?

---
I am awesome and so are you.
Lenny gone but not forgotten. - 12/10/2015
... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List
Page List: 1