Current Events > C/D: Expecting an American cop to go after corrupt peers is unrealistic, unfair

(+) Yeah! (+)

I see way too many people acting like police corruption is worsened by low level cops just keeping their head down, avoiding the fights they can't win, and doing what good they can. The simple reality is these officers have basically no real power - if, for instance, they attempted to arrest another officer, then one of their corrupt supervisors would overrule it and they'd likely be out of a job, if not worse. They aren't in a position to fix things, but they ARE in a position to try and do good by helping the people around them and just being a good cop.

Solidarity

That's why you can't fix the institution from within, it's broken and the corruption and protection they provide each other alongside their unions, lawyers, and the judges and DAs refusing to charge officers... yeah. You have to throw the whole system out and ban anyone who has ever been a cop from the new one that gets built.

One good cop isnt going to change the system, but that doesnt mean that they shouldnt try.

gunplagirl posted...

That's why you can't fix the institution from within, it's broken and the corruption and protection they provide each other alongside their unions, lawyers, and the judges and DAs refusing to charge officers... yeah. You have to throw the whole system out and ban anyone who has ever been a cop from the new one that gets built.

I don't think you need to ban everyone, it'd be important to have some experience when rebuilding it. But definitely we'll need some high standards and close scrutiny for anyone brought over to the new system.

Glob posted...

One good cop isnt going to change the system, but that doesnt mean that they shouldnt try.

Try how?

People are taught in school from a young age that police officers are meant to help people, that if you're lost or in trouble finding a police officer is the best thing you can do. The police force is postured as an upstanding group whose job it is to uphold the law and be pivotal figures in the justice system - protecting the innocent and arresting the guilty.

A lot of childhood bluster ends up flying out the window as you get older, and as naivety runs out, people see the cracks in the foundation and accept the world as the flawed place that it really is. Santa Claus isn't real, rent is horseshit, the economy is rife with fraud, corruption and frivolous speculation that makes it next to impossible for you to buy a house without going into disgusting levels of debt. The ideals of justice and hope die after a while.

But that's not an excuse for police to not even bother trying. Like you have cops making internet videos where they're crying in their cars - not because they went through something harrowing, not because they were made to feel like scum for doing their best, but because they didn't get preferential treatment at McDonald's. Because their fucking McMuffin was late. That's not an exaggeration either, that actually happened: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ officer-viral-video-complaining-about-fast-food-order-draws-ire-n1231353

It is not at all unfair to ask an officer of the law to try and uphold the law in regards to their colleagues. It should never be seen as unrealistic to take action against police officers who are breaking the law. If we're at a point where we're asking if it's reasonable to expect a cop to throw their career prospects away by doing the right thing, the reaction shouldn't be to accept that cops are going to sell drugs and send innocent people to jail, and that the people who speak up get fired for trying to uphold the law. If a cop isn't truly as dedicated to the ideals of justice that the position is socially expected to operate by - that the position is framed in from early childhood - then what business do they have being a police officer in the first place?

And it's made worse when you hear about cops killing other cops. A cop who ratted out several colleagues for participating in a gang-rape was killed during a trianing exercise, and one of the alleged rapists was on-site when he died. The reaction to that shouldn't be "oh jeez, I don't want anyone to die! I guess we should just let the bad apples rape people so no-one else gets murdered!" - it should be to question why rapists, drug dealers and abject murderers who hide behind the badge and spent years fighting against mandatory bodycams are given any leeway to enforce the law at all. It should be to question the rot, not expect it.

Yeah, the police are pretty fucking dogshit and they have been for a long time. That's no reason not to strive for better policework, for more accountability. Good cops dying and getting fired for acting against bad ones shouldn't inspire apathy. It should lead people to attempt greater reform of the justice system so that the bad actors can actually lose their jobs and the actual enforcement of the law doesn't become a sneering conservative taunt to defend pigs who beat up on innocent people out of prejudice, or murder suspects who've been shown on-camera complying with police demands before being shot and killed.

Expecting American cops to do the right thing should never be seen as unrealistic or unfair. It should be the bare fucking minimum of what's expected of them.

SenlinDescends posted...

I don't think you need to ban everyone, it'd be important to have some experience when rebuilding it. But definitely we'll need some high standards and close scrutiny for anyone brought over to the new system.

Try how?

By not participating in nefarious shit and by not turning a blind eye to those that do.

won't somebody please think of the poor pigs

Glob posted...

By not participating in nefarious shit and by not turning a blind eye to those that do.

So....what do you expect them to do? They can't go upwards, because that's where most of the corruption is. They can't make a direct arrest because they don't have the authority to. Beyond that, the only options they have are what we all have, except that talking about it can easily cost them their job with no indication it'll do any good.

So what do you want them to do?

Internal Affairs: "am I a joke to you?"

the answer is yes

I expect them to not back up those who are corrupt or vile at the very least.

Don't defend the bad apples

Unsuprised_Pika posted...

I expect them to not back up those who are corrupt or vile at the very least.

Don't defend the bad apples

This is completely fair. I had this sticking point with one of the Eric Garner killers, who questioned Chauvin's actions and to my knowledge just stood by, but it was later revealed that he helped hold Garner down so there went that.

Who will police the police?

Welp, nobody.

Ricemills posted...

Internal Affairs: "am I a joke to you?"

the answer is yes

Internal affairs be like
"Okay so Robert was cleared off all wrongdoing and most certainly did not choke that prisoner to death. So because you reported him, sorry Chris but you're getting a write up and also you get to be the person everyone practices wailing on during the next training exercise."

And a few weeks later, Chris is dead. Zomg.

Or else Chris calls for backup and nobody else comes and he gets fatally wounded.

SenlinDescends posted...

So....what do you expect them to do? They can't go upwards, because that's where most of the corruption is. They can't make a direct arrest because they don't have the authority to. Beyond that, the only options they have are what we all have, except that talking about it can easily cost them their job with no indication it'll do any good.

So what do you want them to do?

Are you seriously claiming that they cant arrest somebody that they know is guilty of a crime in the US? Because we absolutely could arrest colleagues when I worked as a police officer in the UK. Fear of reprisals for doing so was a real thing, but people didnt have some sort of immunity from arrest just because they were officers.

Glob posted...

Are you seriously claiming that they cant arrest somebody that they know is guilty of a crime in the US? Because we absolutely could arrest colleagues when I worked as a police officer in the UK. Fear of reprisals for doing so was a real thing, but people didnt have some sort of immunity from arrest just because they were officers.

Yes. There's a pretty strict rank structure and as a low level officer you don't have authority to arrest just anyone, especially fellow cops.

SenlinDescends posted...

Yes. There's a pretty strict rank structure and as a low level officer you don't have authority to arrest just anyone, especially fellow cops.

Well thats the first thing that should change because it flies in the face of how law is actually supposed to work, in that its meant to apply to all people.

Glob posted...

Well thats the first thing that should change because it flies in the face of how law is actually supposed to work, in that its meant to apply to all people.

Sadly it's far from the worst aspect of our police.