Current Events > So the nursing strike in NYC

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kloe_Rinz posted...

its never acceptable to blame a worker for the failing of the organization. literally all they have to do is pay more. thats all. if they don't do that, ll blame for patient misfortune is on the organization and specifically the higher ups who refuse to pay workers more. there are people accountable - the upper management - and if any patients die or suffer as a result of this strike, it should be the upper managements head on a platter for failing in their duty of care

Except for doctors. The second you mention that you get hated. This topic is a perfect example.

megamanfreakXD posted...

Except for doctors. The second you mention that you get hated. This topic is a perfect example.

I think that comes down to you constantly whining that you don't make enough despite making more money than 95% of the US population or something ridiculous. That and your hatred for what you do, such that it's obvious that your interest in medicine is primarily about money and prestige.

megamanfreakXD posted...

Except for doctors. The second you mention that you get hated. This topic is a perfect example.

How much money do you want? If you feel you are still underpaid or have unacceptable working conditions and can articulate that to the public, you'll be supported. If they perceive you as greedy or entitled, they won't. It depends on the facts and your ability to sell them.

The reason you haven't seen that support is because doctors as a class are perceived as closer to bosses than workers, and don't exhibit much solidarity with other workers, instead setting themselves above and apart. When we hear from doctors as a political group, it's often to shut down some type of reform to the healthcare system.

legendary_zell posted...

How much money do you want? If you feel you are still underpaid or have unacceptable working conditions and can articulate that to the public, you'll be supported. If they perceive you as greedy or entitled, they won't. It depends on the facts and your ability to sell them.

The reason you haven't seen that support is because doctors as a class are perceived as closer to bosses than workers, and don't exhibit much solidarity with other workers, instead setting themselves above and apart. When we hear from doctors as a political group, it's often to shut down some type of reform to the healthcare system.

National Average for a hospitalist is 300K without bonus.

I am at 210K

megamanfreakXD posted...

National Average for a hospitalist is 300K without bonus.

I am at 210K

That seems like a lot of money to most people and is more than doctors get paid in other countries. You'd need a good story for why you need significantly more. Being paid at the low end of a scale with an entire range that's beyond what most people could dream of making won't be enough. You gotta bring in schooling costs/time and working conditions and explain why others should be in solidarity with you.

megamanfreakXD posted...

National Average for a hospitalist is 300K without bonus.

I am at 210K

You make more than 92% of other American households.
You are in the top 8% of earners.
Go off about not making enough I guess.

MrMallard posted...

literally using lives as an excuse to underpay and mistreat employees

scummy

Whenever there's a strike, there's always a contingent of people who go after the strikers for being selfish or causing harm to others by walking off. Teachers are disadvantaging kids by striking, fuck them. People are dying because nurses are walking off, fuck them. I won't get my mail in time because mailmen and railroad workers are striking, fuck them.

You don't realise that this wouldn't be an issue if the health sector in NYC was run efficiently and competently. And I'm not just talking about if they had treated their nurses better to prevent them from striking - there appears to be no contingency plan, no buffer. If nurses striking leads to mass discharging like this, then the sector as a whole - the bulk of the labor, the work that not only keeps patients cared for but keeps hospitals in business - is kept running through the hard work of nurses.

If there's no contingency plan outside of those nurses doing such a good job, why are nurses being overworked and underpaid? Or, if I'm overestimating the worth of nurses - why don't they have a backup system to fall back on, even if it's less efficient than the way things are run now?

With that being said, it's obviously bad that this is happening. Sick people need to be cared for now, and that's not happening because of this strike. You can look at it one way and think of the striking nurses as heartless harpies who are putting lives at risk out of greed, or you can see it another way: whatever the nurses are striking about is extreme enough that they would take such a drastic measure.

So, what are nurses striking for? As per the following article (https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/new-york-state-nurses- seven-hospitals-strike-2023/639560/):

Nurses want adequate staffing and support for staff. This is on top of an ongoing pandemic that's been going for three years where they became more essential than ever, but didn't see the gratitude expressed through disembodied applause and by the media labelling them as "superheroes" manifest in better pay or better treatment by their employers.

And that's just what that article says; this Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/03/ nurses-strike-new-york-city-hospitals) goes into more detail about improving wages in line with inflation, as well as maintaining health insurance coverage which these hospitals want to cut.

Keep in mind, those things they're arguing for would improve the standard of care for patients. And I shouldn't have to say how essential it should be to pay your employees a living wage.

Going on with the first article - because frankly, I built too much of this post on that article alone:

99% of unionised nurses voted to strike for adequate staff and better support.

This strike didn't pop up overnight either. The union had to meet to discuss terms, union members had to vote, the terms had to be solidified and notice had to be given. As per the article:

Meaning, hospitals knew things were about to get rough almost two weeks before the strike started. They could have set temporary conditions for nurses to work under while unions and employers negotiated terms that everyone would be happy with. They could have come to an agreement while negotiations were still ongoing, if they were amenable and committed to a resolution.

Keep in mind that hospitals are negotiating AGAINST adequate staffing and supporting their staff, but the fact remains that they had notice and they could have taken some course of action to delay the strike, keep nurses in a job and keep up the standard of care for patients.

Instead, they let the contracts lapse, and the strike began.

Now, you're hearing about all the poor sick people who aren't being treated right. You think it's sick that nurses would abandon their posts and let people die and let the sick go untreated.

The hospitals affected by this strike could have taken action weeks ago, and they DIDN'T. Where are the headlines painting them in a bad light? Where are the people calling them sick for letting their patients go untreated for not doing the bare minimum to stay operational?

This entire post happened because I couldn't find an image I'd saved that summed up people's attitudes towards striking way more succinctly. The same applies to teachers and railroad workers, people neglect their needs and then demonise them when people aren't taken care of. Consider what it takes for people to take such a drastic measures, and think about how you'd like to be treated.

By all means, let a hospital grind you into the dirt for inadequate pay, keep you working ungodly hours by failing to hire enough staff and call you a monster when you decide you've had enough.

This.

megamanfreakXD posted...

National Average for a hospitalist is 300K without bonus.

I am at 210K

Where do you work?

Weird how every doctor I've known has a massive ego.

Anyways, I support people trying to better their situation. Results require action, they'll get nowhere by doing nothing.

Nationalize healthcare, pay nurses better.

It's that simple.

Healthcare in this country is generally spiraling downward.

The real culprit driving all of this is private equity. Unfortunately reading through this topic most people are so wildly out of touch (doctors make too much money! nurses should strike for what's right!) a real discussion about causes is beyond the scope of this topic.

I sympathize for the patients. I do think that more cities will soon run into problems like Atlanta with major tertiary care center closures.

A loooooooooooot of people are going to die unnecessarily in the next decade or so. There is a mass exodus of healthcare workers (myself to be included in that timeframe, I'm burned out as fuck and completely unsupported) and total replacement of doctors with NPs/PAs on the horizon across most specialties.

Anyone considering going into nursing can still make a good living. Anyone going to medical school should strongly reconsider unless you're going into a cash-only or ultra rare subspeciality....but it is not possible to guarantee you'll be a neurosurgeon before you're even accepted. So I generally advise people to avoid going at all. Or be PA or something.

NightingaleMD posted...

Healthcare in this country is generally spiraling downward.

The real culprit driving all of this is private equity. Unfortunately reading through this topic most people are so wildly out of touch (doctors make too much money! nurses should strike for what's right!) a real discussion about causes is beyond the scope of this topic.

I sympathize for the patients. I do think that more cities will soon run into problems like Atlanta with major tertiary care center closures.

A loooooooooooot of people are going to die unnecessarily in the next decade or so. There is a mass exodus of healthcare workers (myself to be included in that timeframe, I'm burned out as fuck and completely unsupported) and total replacement of doctors with NPs/PAs on the horizon across most specialties.

Anyone considering going into nursing can still make a good living. Anyone going to medical school should strongly reconsider unless you're going into a cash-only or ultra rare subspeciality....but it is not possible to guarantee you'll be a neurosurgeon before you're even accepted. So I generally advise people to avoid going at all. Or be PA or something.

Agreed. I'm currently doing my residency in psychiatry and plan to go full virtual private practice. I want to keep myself as far away from the general healthcare system as possible. I think people in medical school should consider specialties where it's still possible to have your own practice. I would never advise anyone to go into a general medicine specialty and feel bad for hospitalists, PCPs and EM docs.

https://twitter.com/mayakauf/status/1612397357848469504?s=46&t=j-sgdn9qT31zmPv0HTaMqg

7,000 Strong

So 3 out of the 4 striking hospitals are in The Bronx. Isnt that the poorest borough in NYC?

By any chance is the reason they have patient to nurse staffing issues because the city doesnt give a fuck about the poor and doesnt build more hospitals in the poor borough.

"But patient care!"

*ignores how overworked, understaffed healthcare is really bad for patients*

MelbuFrahma4 posted...

So 3 out of the 4 striking hospitals are in The Bronx. Isnt that the poorest borough in NYC?

By any chance is the reason they have patient to nurse staffing issues because the city doesnt give a fuck about the poor and doesnt build more hospitals in the poor borough.

Thats always the case. Hospitals, schools, housing, and everything else are always worse in poor neighborhoods.

megamanfreakXD posted...

National Average for a hospitalist is 300K without bonus.

I am at 210K

That's almost 8 times more than I'm making. Lay off on the Maseratis and Real Estate, bro.

EyeWontBeFooled posted...

That's almost 8 times more than I'm making. Lay off on the Maseratis and Real Estate, bro.

4 years of undergrad
4 years of med school
3+ years of residency

Are you expecting someone that spent a decade of life in training to make the same as you? What did you do for your job, a two week orientation? If you wanted to make 8 times your salary you would have made different life choices. Why be bitter at someone that did?

He also probably has debt beyond 200k alone. I graduated with almost 400k in debt. Medical school is expensive. I've nearly paid mine off but you need to incentivize someone to be able to make those payments or the next time you get hurt there won't be a doctor there to attend to you.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



So you basically didn't read anything I said

A reasonable person doesn't compare themselves to others outside their own situation, they compare to their own standing. By your logic the person that pointed out the salary discrepancy should just be happy he isn't homeless and forever be content with the money he makes, yes?

NightingaleMD posted...

So you basically didn't read anything I said

A reasonable person doesn't compare themselves to others outside their own situation, they compare to their own standing. By your logic the person that pointed out the salary discrepancy should just be happy he isn't homeless and forever be content with the money he makes, yes?

I mean, comparable:
4 years undergrad
5 years PhD
Going on 4 years of postdoc.

My first actual contract will probably be somewhere between 60-90k.

I think the bitching is eyerolling in comprable contexts lol.

NightingaleMD posted...

So you basically didn't read anything I said

A reasonable person doesn't compare themselves to others outside their own situation, they compare to their own standing. By your logic the person that pointed out the salary discrepancy should just be happy he isn't homeless and forever be content with the money he makes, yes?

He has a right to be dissatisfied with making well under the mean for his profession. But complaining about it in front of people who generally make far less is pretty crappy. He needs to read the room before complaining.

NightingaleMD posted...

So you basically didn't read anything I said

A reasonable person doesn't compare themselves to others outside their own situation, they compare to their own standing. By your logic the person that pointed out the salary discrepancy should just be happy he isn't homeless and forever be content with the money he makes, yes?

If he's comparing himself to himself shouldn't he have gotten a better paying job? Why is it on him to be paid more by someone else, if he is comparing himself to himself?

I don't have an issue with doctors complaining about their pay (not that a doctor gives a shit about what i have issue with, lol), btw. but if nurses are striking then you should be on their side or they won't be on your side when you strike, you know?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Not to mention TCs attitude.
He's punching down at nurses for not putting up with BS (and if you read his post, he comes off as resoly jealous and petty).

When what he should do is bitch to his bosses for underpayment, under valuing its workers, and under staffing.
But no, it's easier to bitch at other workers for wanting better while you're not willing to better your own situation.

Also, his loans have nothing to do with his salary. The college system being a broken and overpriced joke is a different topic entirely.

https://twitter.com/nynurses/status/1613489227291033601

Solidarity gets the goods

Kaiganeer posted...

literally using lives as leverage for better pay

scummy

The hospital is risking the lives.
Nurses aren't obligated to work there.

Antifar posted...

https://twitter.com/nynurses/status/1613489227291033601

Solidarity gets the goods

Fuck yeah! A happy resolution for nurses and patients alike.

So I'm a physician/APP recruiter. Out of curiosity, how much do people think nurses should make?

And for the supposed hospitalist poster, you should switch to locums. We pay our providers around $160-$200 per hour.

NICE!

Strikes WORK!

Hurrah to them!

Now we just need the same result here in the UK, but seems unlikely without the country collapsing at this point when the NHS implodes.

AzNDarkSamurai posted...

Thats always the case. Hospitals, schools, housing, and everything else are always worse in poor neighborhoods.

It takes money to pay doctors/nurses. Poorer areas don't have the funds to do it.

And as long as there is no public option, that translates to worse care.