Current Events > There is no "normal" or "neurotypical" brain (rant)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I am treading waters carefully here as every time I discuss this topic (specifically with one diagnosis that starts with an "A") I tend to get modded but it grinds my gears that everybody is convinced they have this or that psychological disorder when we are unable to define a baseline "normal functioning" brain.

I am mainly talking about disorders where research is unable to differentiate the physiological differences between those that have it and those that do not. For example, it has been proven that schizophrenic brains are structurally different than those that do not have the disorder.

Why is it so important that people to categorize themselves in such a rigid and restrictive way? Almost as if they are convinced they were born as a different species.

I understand why it is important for psychiatrists to categorize and identify what a person may currently be presenting as but I think it is incredibly restrictive for people to build their identities around these labels. We pretend as if these people's behaviors aren't mutable in the least despite there being evidence to contrary. There are many cases of people (especially kids) actually losing their "symptoms" and shedding their diagnosis.

K

I think denying the biological nature of neuropsychiatric illnesses is extremely damaging.

There are baselines.

VampireCoyote posted...

There are baselines.

Elaborate? I can point out multiple studies showing no real notable differences between those diagnosed with a certain disorder and control brains that weren't diagnosed with it.

AP3Brain posted...

Elaborate? I can point out multiple studies showing no real notable differences between those diagnosed with a certain disorder and control brains that weren't diagnosed with it.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

AP3Brain posted...

Elaborate? I can point out multiple studies showing no real notable differences between those diagnosed with a certain disorder and control brains that weren't diagnosed with it.

there might not be a normal or typical example of an overall brain but when looking at certain structures for abnormalities you can compare it to a baseline of the majority of healthy brains

You can call me a "normie" if that makes you feel better.

It really seems like you have an issue with psychology as a whole, the way you're presenting it.

This is a pretty gross topic. It's extremely helpful for autistic people to be aware of their own condition when attempting to navigate the world around them and it seems like you want to make life harder for them because "we're all just people, man! Everybody's unique in their own way!"

Teachers telling everyone they're special was a mistake.

Bruh what possessed you to make this topic?

I dream of a world where there's a cure for Autism, they shouldn't have to suffer in silence.

Some of the symptoms of more severe Autism are terrible, in certain extreme examples they suffer from DRC (Dream-Reality Confusion) which means they believe their dreams are real and occurred.
I cannot imagine being unsure of what's real, and having difficult sorting reality from fiction, and thus the horrors that could be born from that -- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749596X19300245

Yes there is? Normal means average if you didn't know. There absolutely is an average brain.

Ignoring all of the hyperbole and random accusations.

VampireCoyote posted...

there might not be a normal or typical example of an overall brain but when looking at certain structures for abnormalities you can compare it to a baseline of the majority of healthy brains

That's what I am referring to. For example, they have compared brains between autistic people and random control samples and have not notable differences.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/most-autistic-people-have-normal-brain-anatomy

First off, the ASD group had no differences in overall brain size (intracranial volume). Nor were there any group differences in the volumes of most brain areas; the only significant finding here was an increased ventricle volume in the ASD group, but even this had a small effect size (d = 0.34). Enlarged ventricles is not specific to ASD by any means the same thing has been reported in schizophrenia, dementia, and many other brain disorders.

On the differences, they actually found that smaller sample sizes made their model more accurate it was, showing that there is no actual correlation.

Also again there is no REAL baseline/neurotypical/healthy brain. It's not a simple organ like most others in our body. While structured similarly, we all have differences.

Stop doubling down. No statistically detectable differences on extremely gross measures of anatomy across diagnostic categories that might as well be grouping cats and dogs is not the evidence you think it is.

AP3Brain posted...

Why is it so important that people to categorize themselves in such a rigid and restrictive way? Almost as if they are convinced they were born as a different species.

Because people with neurodivergent brains have uncommon issues and stressors that are not commonly addressed through normal communal living, and identifying ways to cope and resolve these stressors and issues can be difficult for a person is otherwise shunned due to their outward behavior. Neurodivergent people since the dawn of mankind have shared traits that have led to them suffering significantly lower quality of life on average than those around them through no fault of there own.

Therefore, categorizing and identifying neurodivergent behavior is a critical tool in assigning the proper care and education to people with their unique needs so thay they can live a better quality of life or even contribute to soviety as equals.

No, they just did a study --
"there's widespread molecular changes across the cerebral cortex in ASD, extending beyond association cortex to broadly involve primary sensory regions.":
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05377-7

AP3Brain posted...

That's what I am referring to. For example, they have compared brains between autistic people and random control samples and have not notable differences.

The tools we have to "compare brains" are very, very limited when we take into account everything a brain does. "Normal" anatomy means nothing.

knightmarexx posted...

No, they just did a study --
"there's widespread molecular changes across the cerebral cortex in ASD, extending beyond association cortex to broadly involve primary sensory regions.":
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05377-7

Good man.

The topic title and OP are all over the place here. Idk how you'd expect anyone to take this seriously. It comes off like a stoned rant

I have a friend who has a 3 year old toddler who doesn't verbally communicate. This along with many other signs are pointing to the little fella having autism.

The kid and parents absolutely need that diagnosis to get the help and support they need as that kid develops.

Now maybe with support he can 'shed' that diagnosis as you say. But that isn't going to happen if he is treated as a normal kid. The support needs to happen now. Just like anything else that a baby, toddler or kid is struggling with.