Board 8 > Blizzard reveals their diversity tool

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you remember some random thing someone said nine years ago on here?

MoogleKupo141 posted...

you remember some random thing someone said nine years ago on here?

Probably easier if she was tagged for 9 years tbf

I would never forget LGBTphobic slurs, given I have an LGBT+ identity myself.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

you remember some random thing someone said nine years ago on here?

i remember things people said on this board from way further back

I guess my surprise is more about remembering the specific year it happened than remembering someone saying something. My memories of things people say here is much more loose.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

I guess my surprise is more about remembering the specific year it happened than remembering someone saying something. My memories of things people say here is much more loose.

Character Battle IX was still ongoing.

Oh well there ya go, I have no further questions.

CelesMyUserName posted...

You were blocked before the neopronouns topic which resulted in me never even making a post in there or knowing about it you fucking idiot

Oh fun. What did you block me for?

Damn this board gets dramatic sometimes. Let's have a group hug y'all, come here and hug it out

masterplum posted...

Oh fun. What did you block me for?

The very moment I blocked you is when you mocked trans people for getting "expertly trolled" by turbopuns repeated ignorance on Chappelle

A long conversation that you spent the whole god damn time on the sidelines empathizing with him and saying we're too mean and this is why transphobia exists, to then just flip over to gaslighting us that we're just getting trolled, pretending that it wasn't actually serious in the first place

There's a reason I never blocked turbopuns, and at the end of that dialogue he actually saw the error of his ways (admittedly due to listening to Wil Wheaton of all people) and apologized for being so ignorant and ended up applauded for listening. You on the other hand showed your own full bloom centrist asshole that you don't give a shit about dialogue and that your entire role is to uphold the status quo including in regards to bigotry and to talk down to trans people over it. To see you now gossiping easily verifiable lies about me about something I literally never involved myself in but oh wow surprise surprise it's a generalization about trans/non-binary people how shocking, I take it this isn't a decision I need to reverse any time soon.

I mean it was after that topic I noticed you blocked me so I assumed that was what did it. Not everyone is out trying to get you.

I dont remember this conversation at all but based on you assuming the worst of me I have no problem with you continuing to block me. Feel free to do it on all your accounts!

I also remember that, for what it's worth. Ain't quite block material in my own book but

I vaguely recall people trashing on puns for asking questions and I think I was defensive of people being asses towards him.

But thats all I remember.

Puns rode in on a high horse and got sternly corrected. It was a fair interaction.

and then we rinsed and repeated every week or two for a while

Also I have known plum long enough to know he isn't a bad guy. He has been fed certain propaganda all his life and he has broken away from some of it. Him being a centrist is not the worst case scenario for someone and he tries to understand. It doesn't mean people have to stand him but as I say in mafia plum passes the vibe check in that I feel he is doing the best he can for right now. I hope to see further improvement as time goes on but it is hard to be de programmed.

I think its less I need to be deprogrammed, and more I have a lot of conservative friends and family and Im especially sensitive to people making ad hominem attacks towards everyone with conservative beliefs because I really like a lot of people with those beliefs and I get angry at people who directly attack them as part of a group.

My guess is when people were attacking puns I was defensive as I was vicariously projecting those attacks on my family.

masterplum posted...

I think its less I need to be deprogrammed, and more I have a lot of conservative friends and family and Im especially sensitive to people making ad hominem attacks towards everyone with conservative beliefs because I really like a lot of people with those beliefs and I get angry at people who directly attack them as part of a group.

My guess is when people were attacking puns I was defensive as I was vicariously projecting those attacks on my family.

And people don't like being murdered at an absurdly high rate for being Trans and are sick of people's feelings mattering more than their very lives.

You can appreciate the frustration.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

And people don't like being murdered at an absurdly high rate for being Trans and are sick of people's feelings mattering more than their very lives.

You can appreciate the frustration.

Its actually hard, because I dont really value masculinity or femininity so it is hard for me to empathize with people who value it enough to change genders. I tend to be uncomfortable by extreme masculinity or femininity regardless of if the person is male or female.

My spouse is actually fairly androgynous funny enough. She isnt masculine but never wears make up and is very assertive.

masterplum posted...

Its actually hard, because I dont really value masculinity or femininity so it is hard for me to empathize with people who value it enough to change genders. I tend to be uncomfortable by extreme masculinity or femininity regardless of if the person is male or female.

My spouse is actually fairly androgynous funny enough. She isnt masculine but never wears make up and is very assertive.

I can get that. This is a hard subject for you and I appreciate that. Sometimes you will say things that bother me about it but I rely heavily on my years of experience with you to try to work through these things

UltimaterializerX posted...

On my mothers ashes, I am not implying anything or victim blaming by asking this. Its just an honest question.

If someone trans lies about their birth gender to get laid, when they know theyre breaking a standard most straight people have and it borders on sexual assault, how much blame is placed on them for lying if the straight person in this hypothetical gets triggered and freaks out on them? This is something courts are struggling with at the moment.

Give me a percentage. 5%? 50%? There are laws in place in some states where men cant lie about income to get sex, so the trans birth gender thing is going to get made into state law at some point. I want to know where we stand as a community and if were even allowed to talk about it. Youre way more in tune with this stuff than I am.

Physical violence is not acceptable even though I think it is pretty shitty not to disclose that. People can be pretty shitty and not deserve to be harmed

It think it's not worth discussing right now, at least not the angle that you are attempting to discuss. It's difficult to connect the notions between 'sex by deception is rape' and 'people shouldn't have to disclose their birth gender to anyone for any reason.'

The most common response you will get is that this doesn't happen very often and generally by the time you would get physically intimate with someone, it's something that most people would disclose. But of course that doesn't answer your question because you're not asking about the people who disclosed it, you're asking about the people who didn't disclose.

Chris is correct here that physical violence is not the answer. I'm not even sure if everyone would universally agree that keeping your past a secret is a shitty thing to do, even IF it ends up being a bigger deal to the other person. It depends on how you feel about transexuality. As well as people keeping other aspects of their past a secret. Like I never talked to any of my partners about some of the terrible stuff that I went through as a kid. Does that also count as rape by deception? It doesn't feel important to me to share that. So, in the end, it's more of a disagreement about what should or shouldn't be shared, rather than a clear case of people withholding information that needs to be shared. For an example of that, people need to disclose their HIV and Aids status before having sex with a partner, and most would universally agree that this stance is correct.

But here's the actual bottom line and why I think it's not even worth bringing up:

First, if you're only asking out of 100% curiosity and for no other reason... It's an extremely sensitive topic, and there are many other things going on right now that make the issue complicated and make people on both sides unable to discuss in good faith. Would you kick a hornet's nest for no other reason than curiosity? No? Then leave a subject like this alone until the conditions for discussing it are more favorable.

Secondly, if you're asking this out of genuine concern that you or someone else may be 'raped by deception' the only thing I can say is that it happens extremely infrequently. It's like worrying that a piano is going to fall on you and kill you. Would you kick a hornet's nest just because you thought it might slightly decrease the likelihood that a piano was going to fall on you and kill you at some point in your life? Surely the answer, again, is no.

I seriously urge men to examine their fear of trans vaginas

far too many do not possess the sincerity to confront the homophobic logic in their mind behind those strongly repulsed emotions, the maintained perception of trans women as men, and their humiliation from being turned on by one

I don't at all take this to mandate dating trans women which is a separate world altogether: a desire for genetic children is wholly understandable (keeping in mind it's a hang-up that can get in the way of relationships with infertile cis women as well), but this tangible want is not at all a factor in a simple hook-up

Grimlyn posted...

The very moment I blocked you is when you mocked trans people for getting "expertly trolled" by turbopuns repeated ignorance on Chappelle

GMUN is right about this, in case people were wondering. just looked up the specific post in my archive.

masterplum 12/7/2021 6:27:37 PM#286
Puns is a fantastic troll. You guys are just foaming over his dumb 2 sentence statements
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg

Ah, If that is the line people are in arms about, I didnt intend it to be related to trans people at all, rather I thought it was funny that people were so mad at puns regardless of their trans status (and some of the people getting upset like gmun I didnt even know were trans to begin with)

I didnt think the conversation was any more noteworthy than if puns had dumb opinions about gun control that people were mad at, though I could see how other people would find this topic more sensitive

masterplum posted...

I didnt intend it to be related to trans people at all,

what did you think we were arguing about, then?

masterplum posted...

rather I thought it was funny that people were so mad at puns

why?

Tom Bombadil posted...

what did you think we were arguing about, then?

why?

This was a while ago so Im doing it from memory.

Because it was straight out of a sketch comedy. Puns wandered in and said the most absurd nonsensical arguments and people took him seriously and got angry about it. I viewed it identically to if someone walked into a church and said they were an abortion enjoyer and people took them seriously. Puns was being so absurdly aloof that people yelling at him were in no way helping their situation. At best they were getting mad at someone who didnt know what universe he walked into and at worst they were giving a transphobic puns exactly what he was looking for.

Its possible this a more sensitive topic to some people and I equated it to other political things other people got riled about.

I suppose I can live with that, thanks

masterplum posted...

This was a while ago so Im doing it from memory.

Because it was straight out of a sketch comedy. Puns wandered in and said the most absurd nonsensical arguments and people took him seriously and got angry about it. I viewed it identically to if someone walked into a church and said they were an abortion enjoyer and people took them seriously. Puns was being so absurdly aloof that people yelling at him were in no way helping their situation. At best they were getting mad at someone who didnt know what universe he walked into and at worst they were giving a transphobic puns exactly what he was looking for.

Its possible this a more sensitive topic to some people and I equated it to other political things other people got riled about.

this makes no sense, though. because before the post i quoted, you were arguing that we were being too mean to puns, like GMUN said. in response to one of my posts, you even linked to a scientific study that apparently proved that calmly approaching someone works better to change their mind than being aggressive and insulting.

like, if your argument was "don't feed the troll," that would have been fine but that's not the argument you were making. first you made a number of posts saying "you guys should use the most effective method to change puns's mind and being mean and aggressive isn't it" and then all of a sudden, you were like "LULZ YOU GUYS GOT TROLLED SO BADLY BY PUNS." that's dumb as hell.

I mean maybe puns kept being especially dumb past the point where it was rational? I don't know

either way, your post was still inane because...

https://bit.ly/3sFs4gh

even if puns was just trolling and he didn't actually believe the insane stuff he was saying (which i highly doubt, btw), he was still contributing to toxic transphobic rhetoric. people had every right to be mad at him because of this.

Fair block, next.

Yet ExTha still gets away with using autistic as an insult. Ableism is just as bad as homophobia/transphobia/etc.

It might've been from the topic before that specific one but if you go to the start of the conversation, I very much *did* begin taking puns' ignorance earnestly with a post explaining my position, my own very personal reasons why transphobic media has effected my life, and recommended listening to actual trans voices instead of solely focusing on the celeb under fire's emotions. Celeb worship is unfortunately all too common (I mentioned parasocial relationships before and this is another side to it) and creates an instinctive defensive position without listening to criticism. I ended up pointing towards some trans and cis black voices with their fair but critical opinions on the matter (looking up though this was in the second topic where yeah I'm much more annoyed after being completely ignored the first go around).

Every single bit of this was ignored only for puns to keep simply harping on calling everybody a wild embarrassment and out for blood with cancel culture (literally not uttered by anyone), that we must not watch any comedy, and that we're the ones lacking empathy for Chappelle, all while he ignores our own personal experiences given. He says pages in that he hasn't even read the comments he received but continues on to speak over everyone without doing so. Then again later it just comes out that he was drunk and oh well shucks that poor drunk guy really stepped in it.

I'll point to xp1337's description of events so it's not just me talking but

Yeah, idk, I've spoken up a few times when I felt some people in here have gone "too hard" on occasion but I don't really think this met that? I think the tipping point in the whole thing happened super early too when GMUN posted that personal story rebutting puns's assertions. If the point was to have a discourse over "Why are people/you all upset about what Chappelle has said?", "How can comedy be harmful?", etc. ...that was it. That was the offramp from one-liners and such to a more nuanced discussion. ...And it was just ignored entirely. So... yeah. Now puns has since said he hadn't heard the full story behind what Chappelle had said, etc. but like I don't think this was "the topic" steamrolling someone and shutting down discussion. The route to a discussion was extended by "the topic" and not taken!

Like I think 99% of the "meta commentary" in this thread is likely unhelpful but since we're determined to rehash it again...

and then my own frustration at the time

good discussion is completely wasted here as I've pointed out it's constantly ignored to go for low hanging fruit

every damn time I bother making an effort it's for nothing

Delseban actually plays the role of plum in the first topic, as someone sympathetic to ignorant liberals and questions the effectiveness of the argument but he makes an actual back-and-forth dialogue accepting his own biases towards leniency in one direction and putting the onus on one side rather than plum just insisting on his usual centrist enlightenment dismissing others points even while we acknowledge and accept his but complete it with the full context. Which yeah, plum wasn't involved in the previous topic but we explicitly refer to it as it hasn't even purged yet. But getting the full picture isn't plum's concern because he just holds onto his caricatures of "the left" (same way that on the same page he bizarrely assumes we're all blind Biden supporters, when he's literally the 2nd biggest Biden fan after LotM)

The prime reason that gets me to block someone is an insistent disingenuity and lack of engagement because they just waste your time and erode the conversation. That combined with an inflammatory "lmao y'all got trolled superbly" heel turn after doing so is where I tend to draw the line and commit to block. You may notice I never blocked puns despite fitting much of this criteria, but I could still see that his emotional ignorance was at least genuine, and later in the topic I was proven right when he finally... listened to Wil Wheaton.

yeah, one of the reasons why i seriously doubt puns was trolling is that he made a 3 hour youtube video explaining his position on the chappelle thing.

if you're spending that much time on an EPIC TROLL, you might want to reevaluate your priorites >_>

MegaWentEvil posted...

Speaking of transphobia, I remember GenesisSaga literally calling Poison a 'shim' in 2013, but people turned a blind eye to it.

I even tagged her as "Called Poison a shim".

For people not caring at the time, yeah, I can believe that. There are a few very vocal pro-trans voices on the board right now, but the board has historically always been pretty transphobic. And some of the same people are absolutely still around and likely just more quiet about their beliefs. If even.

If people don't remember or don't care anymore, I just see that as the natural progression of human thought. I also don't spend any time thinking about the offensive stuff Eminem said in 1999. There's just a lot more, and more relevant things, going on right now.

There's probably a statue of limitations on how long you're supposed to be upset at someone for saying one offensive thing. Especially if it was just about ten years ago and the person was young at the time. My definition of young is under 25 though. That's the age where the average human brain finishes development. I'm also probably extremely lenient on people when it comes to offensive language since there isn't much (if any) language that personally offends me. Although obviously I can sympathize with others who are upset, I can't actually feel the genuine experience of being offended myself.

my "statute of limitations" is particularly short re:b8 because daggum we used to all be jerks back in the day, myself included

some of us still are, but hey <_<

MariaTaylor posted...

foolmo in particular is a hilariously outrageous example because he's literally the president of the "this never happens to maria" committee even though he's been doing it just about as long as I've been posting on board 8.

I have been calling out dumb posts for way longer than that too. When you say something dumb and get called out it's not targeting. It's a natural reaction. That's what's impossible for you to understand.

foolm0r0n posted...

I have been calling out dumb posts for way longer than that too. When you say something dumb and get called out it's not targeting. It's a natural reaction. That's what's impossible for you to understand.

That would be valid, except...

foolm0r0n posted...

This is the first time I have ever agreed with SEP in recent memory, and I didn't even read any of his or your posts before this. All I saw was you calling the difference between "we" and "I" pedantic, which is dumb af.

You come into a topic, don't read ANY of the prior posts between two people, just see someone arguing with me, immediately take the side of someone you by your own words almost NEVER agree with. Simply because they are siding against me.

But really even that point is beside the point.

Name literally even one person who is a member of this "anime crew" that you brought up earlier. I'm still waiting. If there is this group of people running into topics to defend me and take my side in arguments surely you can name a single one of them. Where are they right now? Why aren't they defending me in this topic? You can even use your own definition. It doesn't need to be someone who actually goes to b8anime. It just needs to be someone who always comes into controversial topics like this and takes my side.

Funny how the moment you were asked to do that, you ran away from the topic and hid for several days before crawling back to try and start more drama. Once again directed at the person you claim that you have no bias or grudge against. The moment that people began to post and discuss hard evidence, you ran away from the topic. I suspect most or all of the topics that GMUN/SEP brought up are filled with posts of yours. Posts with hostility and extreme bias aimed at me. And more topics between now and then. More than just the ones SEP was in.

You are a manipulative, gaslighting borderline psychopath who is clearly mentally unwell.

Whatever I did to you in 2007 to upset you so much, I am sorry. But I don't think I can in good faith interact with you ever again. As I said earlier in the topic, I believed that you were trolling up until now. Now I realize there is something seriously wrong with you.

this topic should have been about trains a long time ago

MariaTaylor posted...

As I said earlier in the topic, I believed that you were trolling up until now. Now I realize there is something seriously wrong with you.

This was me like 5 years ago with foolmo.

SEP I realized more recently but yeah.

Some people it's just too far to actually be a character or trolling, and you know they just have to have something seriously wrong with them. Something in their mind just is broken to the point where they get some weird satisfaction out of being right or deluding themselves into being right and will utterly twist interactions and even their image of the other person in the argument to fit their worldview until they hit that point. Most people will just give up before then so they don't see that side-- more stubborn people like me, it absolutely comes out and it's gross.

Some people say that's me, but it's because I'm so stubborn I actually know the difference. With me an argument stays to a point in a vacuum. If I'm defeated (or the discussion reaches an impasse) on that point, I don't lateral over to trying to pretend that person who's arguing with me is a terrible person, I just say "we're not going to understand each other, but here's what I meant one last time" and move on.

I would take Maria to low diff half of b8 combined in a debate I have no idea why anyone thinks that Maria of all people needs defending from outside people tbh. I think the only time I have ever felt bothered to speak up is years ago when it was clear people were crossing lines.

Also as for b8 argue culture in general I agree with lopen. I used to get wrapped up in it more specifically when I was having a bad time in my life and also when I was struggling with big mental health things like grief and sudden loss. Now I try to distance myself and read a book or something for the most part when I am having a bad time.

Stupidest argument lopen ever had was sora couldn't survive a kick from Duke nukem even though I had a video of him landing on his head from a 100 meter fall and saying ow. The disrespect.

that's what this topic needed, is mercs

To be fair I don't think I had him OHKOed from the kick!

I hope not, anyway.

Tbf mercs is holy grail war levels of fair so I mean.... on brand

man I miss those

I don't think I'm gonna run another, but it was fun

what we DO need though is to summon Haguile back for more murder games

I still don't understand how teams in mercs win and at this point I'm too afraid to ask