Board 8 > MCU General 8 - Ms. Marvel bringing the Love, She-Hulk bringing the Thunder

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 4:15:09 PM
#203:


scarletspeed7 posted...
Well I figured if you wanted to be extremely nitpicky about pointless things, I should hold to your own standard.
I disagree with them being similar. I don't believe that the love of family is purely restricted to who you are blood related to. The distinction between planets and dimensions is important because they are not the same thing in the slightest.

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DoomTheGyarados
06/05/22 4:26:59 PM
#204:


Points to igcd on this one

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scarletspeed7
06/05/22 4:31:42 PM
#205:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
I disagree with them being similar. I don't believe that the love of family is purely restricted to who you are blood related to. The distinction between planets and dimensions is important because they are not the same thing in the slightest.
You want to engage about the meaning of fatherhood, then you want to engage in contextuality, which was my original point in the earlier posts. You want to engage on planets, ignoring that at least one realm is entirely presented as an alternate dimension (Hel), then you have to accept that you are picking and choosing when context matters in your discussion in regards to the narrative, which is my original point, when it came to Loki's characterization being mismanaged.

Like, this is just an insanely perfect example of getting up in arms in the EXACT way I was when someone was responding with a complete barebones-wikipedia-style facts-only-ma'am response, which is what you did. It's actually amazing.

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LeonhartFour
06/05/22 4:37:06 PM
#206:


can we really even say Odin is Loki's legal father

I've never seen those adoption papers, have you

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scarletspeed7
06/05/22 4:37:40 PM
#207:


Loki was Odin. So didn't he raise himself?

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TheRock1525
06/05/22 4:38:10 PM
#208:


LeonhartFour posted...
can we really even say Odin is Loki's legal father

I've never seen those adoption papers, have you

Yes because he says "my sons" when he dies which is legally binding in the MCU.

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scarletspeed7
06/05/22 4:39:21 PM
#209:


TheRock1525 posted...
Yes because he says "my sons" when he dies which is legally binding in the MCU.
If I ever write an MCU movie, I'm going to make sure that when Shang-Chi dies, he calls Hawkeye and the Abomination his sons. And I want Rock's post to be the first thought in EVERYONE'S mind when Black Widow 12 comes out.

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mnkboy907
06/05/22 4:39:23 PM
#210:


I'm not sure why you seem to be getting so heated about this. Or maybe I'm just misinterpreting your tone.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 4:41:03 PM
#211:


scarletspeed7 posted...
You want to engage about the meaning of fatherhood, then you want to engage in contextuality, which was my original point in the earlier posts. You want to engage on planets, ignoring that at least one realm is entirely presented as an alternate dimension (Hel), then you have to accept that you are picking and choosing when context matters in your discussion in regards to the narrative, which is my original point, when it came to Loki's characterization being mismanaged.

Like, this is just an insanely perfect example of getting up in arms in the EXACT way I was when someone was responding with a complete barebones-wikipedia-style facts-only-ma'am response, which is what you did. It's actually amazing.
I'm not sure i 100% understand this post so please forgive me. Could you rephrase what you're trying to say here?

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scarletspeed7
06/05/22 4:41:57 PM
#212:


mnkboy907 posted...
I'm not sure why you seem to be getting so heated about this. Or maybe I'm just misinterpreting your tone.
If you mean me, I the only post that has me upset is IfGod's really disingenuous attempt to make it seem like I'm somehow anti-adoption or that I only consider blood relationships to be binding. Like, it actually made me furious. But maybe I should just not engage. It's a habit. I'll call off. Maybe I'm wrong, if that's the way my posts are interpreted. And it doesn't help that Chris dogpiles on. I generally don't communicate my points well, so I've tried to disengage from conversations on the board, but sometimes I just can't help but get baited into a conversation.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 4:43:57 PM
#213:


scarletspeed7 posted...
If you mean me, I the only post that has me upset is IfGod's really disingenuous attempt to make it seem like I'm somehow anti-adoption or that I only consider blood relationships to be binding. Like, it actually made me furious. But maybe I should just not engage. It's a habit. I'll call off. Maybe I'm wrong, if that's the way my posts are interpreted. And it doesn't help that Chris dogpiles on.
I'm sorry I was being more facetious about that because of your response to me calling Odin Loki's father. I thought you were trying to be a jerk to me so I tried to shrug it off with sarcasm.

And just for clarifications sake, I don't consider any of your opinions to be wrong. I just think we look at things differently. Like I don't really hold fiction to a very high standard and it really take a lot of egregious mistakes for me to really criticize things that a franchise might be doing. When I see flaws in characters or their development I see it more as a humanizing quality because I constantly see people that are trying to better themselves fall back and make mistakes. I also see very smart people make stupid mistakes so again when I see that in fiction it comes across to me as much more natural than others do.

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DoomTheGyarados
06/05/22 4:45:51 PM
#214:


That was not a dog pile that was defending found family I don't care whatever else you guys are talking about.

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scarletspeed7
06/05/22 5:03:38 PM
#215:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
And just for clarifications sake, I don't consider any of your opinions to be wrong. I just think we look at things differently. Like I don't really hold fiction to a very high standard and it really take a lot of egregious mistakes for me to really criticize things that a franchise might be doing. When I see flaws in characters or their development I see it more as a humanizing quality because I constantly see people that are trying to better themselves fall back and make mistakes. I also see very smart people make stupid mistakes so again when I see that in fiction it comes across to me as much more natural than others do.

I think that's totally a fair way to watch things. My frustrations weren't even in Loki changing as a personality so much as dumbing down as a being, and I think my sticking point is that the scope of the games Loki has been shown to play are equivalent to the time-nonsense. Loki can be good - but he shouldn't lose his ability to play the game, if that makes sense. He certainly should have seen a lot of things coming, or been able to respond to them more swiftly. I'd rather engage on this discussion anyways, IfGod! Planets or dimensions, the intellect of Loki is a defining positive characteristic for the character, and to lost that I think loses the bite of the character.

And for you, IfGod - I wasn't indemnifying stepfamilies. I've never been great at communicating my points, but I was trying to show a similarity in lack of context in "the realms are planets, therefore Loki isn't that impressive" to "Laufey is the real father, therefore the relationship with Odin is irrelevant." Clearly, didn't communicate it well to you, so I'll apologize. Not my intent to actually upset you, since it seems I did? I was trying to be equally as facetious since it would take an absolute monster to actually think that being a stepfather, stepchild, etc is somehow inferior to blood relationships. But apparently Chris thinks that lowly of me, so I guess I've never demonstrated myself to be more than a shitty human being. Thanks, Chris!

EDIT: Post won't format right on my phone for whatever reason.

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Inviso
06/05/22 5:29:31 PM
#216:


scarletspeed7 posted...
No, IfGod. It is not apples to apples. They have the Rainbow Bridge, they use the tesseract, they're covering infinite distances across creation. Again, Hel, too, is not a planet, but a dimension at the very least. If I threw a human on another planet, yes, they wouldn't be the smartest being there, most likely. But if I throw a being that can traverse across the universe with powerful weapons that can unmake reality, blah blah blah, yes. l DO expect them to not suddenly be the most idiotic slack-jawed moron in the universe. There is a level of competency you still expect in execution that Loki suddenly lacked.

And traveling to a different country? If I travel to ANY country on Earth, I still know physics, I still know math. I have a phone I can use to navigate and translate. And if I didn't, I know to get something to fulfill that role. Now, imagine if I'm thousands of years old and travel to countries as a career choice. Suddenly, I'm dropped in a country I haven't visited before and I'm helpless? No. This was a narrative choice to make Loki more relatable, but it diminished Loki as a god into Loki as sort of just some guy. Your metaphor falls apart as soon as you translate it to the reality of the character. Context matters, whether it's worlds or dimensions or tufts of floating cotton candy that hang outside of the space-time continuum.

Late to the party, but I'd like to highlight this post and my agreement with it. There's a reason why we look at movies like Signs and the War of the Worlds remake, and find their endings laughable. The idea of an alien species that is capable of interstellar travel and just a general ability to make a laughing stock out of humanity through their technological superiority...only to get beaten because they didn't realize that germs and fucking WATER were their weakness. When you establish a character like Loki as particularly intelligent and cunning...I don't care what new dimension you send them to, or how overwhelmingly intelligent the people there are (or planet, as the case may be, since different planets and different dimensions have the same connotations from the standpoint of fictional storytelling), that doesn't suddenly sap Loki's intelligence to that of a simpering moron. He's still intelligent, even if he's facing other characters perhaps capable of demonstrating greater intelligence...and admittedly, it's like the writers of Loki decided to neglect his intelligence in favor of a general concept of Loki being charismatic and witty.

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Inviso
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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 5:37:27 PM
#217:


scarletspeed7 posted...
I think that's totally a fair way to watch things. My frustrations weren't even in Loki changing as a personality so much as dumbing down as a being, and I think my sticking point is that the scope of the games Loki has been shown to play are equivalent to the time-nonsense. Loki can be good - but he shouldn't lose his ability to play the game, if that makes sense. He certainly should have seen a lot of things coming, or been able to respond to them more swiftly. I'd rather engage on this discussion anyways, IfGod! Planets or dimensions, the intellect of Loki is a defining positive characteristic for the character, and to lost that I think loses the bite of the character.
I can understand that criticism. Loki did feel a little out of step from what we saw him develop in previous films, but like I said I just chalk it up to him being out of his element.

I even did some researching because of our conversation and based on the MCU wiki the nine realms are legitimately just other planets. Hel is apart of Niflheim. They acknowledge that it is a place where the dead from the Nine Realms wonder when neither honored nor dishonored.(so im not exactly sure how that actually works in regards to different dimensions vs. planets.) But when you were specifically talking about dimensions I was taking it as you meaning Loki had experience with things like the dark dimension, mirror dimension, or the quantum realm. And I dont recall him actually having that kind of experience with other dimensions. So in my mind him not having that experience does make it plausible that he might not be as sharp as he would be had he not been taken by the TVA.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 5:43:55 PM
#218:


scarletspeed7 posted...
And for you, IfGod - I wasn't indemnifying stepfamilies. I've never been great at communicating my points, but I was trying to show a similarity in lack of context in "the realms are planets, therefore Loki isn't that impressive" to "Laufey is the real father, therefore the relationship with Odin is irrelevant." Clearly, didn't communicate it well to you, so I'll apologize. Not my intent to actually upset you, since it seems I did? I was trying to be equally as facetious since it would take an absolute monster to actually think that being a stepfather, stepchild, etc is somehow inferior to blood relationships. But apparently Chris thinks that lowly of me, so I guess I've never demonstrated myself to be more than a shitty human being. Thanks, Chris!
Meant to address this too. I honestly didn't even take it that way. Like I said, I thought you were just trying to be a jerk over the whole thing because as we have established we had a bit of miscommunication over the whole thing prior to the "family" thing so I was just trying to be a jerk back. Either way we've both acknowledged and I really don't think either of us really needs to make a big deal out of it at this point. We've both apologized and hopefully can just move past it. I know you're a knowledgeable comics fan and honestly these topics are a little stale at times so when you chime in I look at it as an opportunity to engage with someone I think is going to have a relevant opinion on the MCU.

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scarletspeed7
06/05/22 5:45:24 PM
#219:


Well, that's one of the nicer things someone has said to me on the board! I enjoy the conversation as well. I like to be challenged - just chocking it up to bad misinterpretation and Chris just being his normal self.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 5:47:15 PM
#220:


Inviso posted...
Late to the party, but I'd like to highlight this post and my agreement with it. There's a reason why we look at movies like Signs and the War of the Worlds remake, and find their endings laughable. The idea of an alien species that is capable of interstellar travel and just a general ability to make a laughing stock out of humanity through their technological superiority...only to get beaten because they didn't realize that germs and fucking WATER were their weakness. When you establish a character like Loki as particularly intelligent and cunning...I don't care what new dimension you send them to, or how overwhelmingly intelligent the people there are (or planet, as the case may be, since different planets and different dimensions have the same connotations from the standpoint of fictional storytelling), that doesn't suddenly sap Loki's intelligence to that of a simpering moron. He's still intelligent, even if he's facing other characters perhaps capable of demonstrating greater intelligence...and admittedly, it's like the writers of Loki decided to neglect his intelligence in favor of a general concept of Loki being charismatic and witty.
Like I agree with this to an extent but at the same time I think it completely ignores the fact that Loki's understanding of the universe and time has been completely shattered and flipped upside down.(and it is the shattering of his understanding of both those things that lends credence to him not being at his peak.)

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Inviso
06/05/22 5:50:26 PM
#221:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Like I agree with this to an extent but at the same time I think it completely ignores the fact that Loki's understanding of the universe and time has been completely shattered and flipped upside down.(and it is the shattering of his understanding of both those things that lends credence to him not being at his peak.)

Even if, for example, you're a scientist whose entire understanding of science is upended by a new scientific discovery...even if that's upsetting and earthshattering for you, you still have a baseline level of intelligence that you'd be expected to maintain. We're not talking an average individual suddenly snapping and losing their mind or anything like that.

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Inviso
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DoomTheGyarados
06/05/22 5:53:00 PM
#222:


I admit I don't know how a single sentence concuring with a single point from someone is worthy of feeling dog piled on or 'Chris usual self' but sure.

I have been catching some very weird comments lately.

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bryans7
06/05/22 5:54:37 PM
#223:


JonThePenguin posted...
August 10 for I Am Groot.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/3/7/AADcu0AADTlN.jpg

This looks neat.

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DoomTheGyarados
06/05/22 5:59:09 PM
#224:


In mcu news I got around to watching Hawkeye and I liked pretty much everything about it. Very likable cast and I liked how big of a deal they made the over arcing villain.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 6:02:13 PM
#225:


Inviso posted...
Even if, for example, you're a scientist whose entire understanding of science is upended by a new scientific discovery...even if that's upsetting and earthshattering for you, you still have a baseline level of intelligence that you'd be expected to maintain. We're not talking an average individual suddenly snapping and losing their mind or anything like that.
Again, while that is true. We aren't just dealing with a character whose whole understanding of space and time have been up ended. We are dealing with a character whose whole understanding of space and time has been upended, a character who just found out that he was being used as a pawn by Thanos, a character that finds out he is the reason his mother dies because of his mischievous ways, a character that finds out despite his failings and mistakes he still ends up loved by his "brother" and "father,"and a character that sees himself sacrifice himself to try and save his brother(confirming to himself that he isn't a "bad guy.") These are things that would very much create an emotional minefield for him to navigate, thus creating a head space for him that very likely would keep him off his game.

Again, I would just like to point out that this is how I see the events of Loki. I don't necessarily disagree with anyone having a different opinion nor do I believe that someone having a different opinion on the matter means they are wrong.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/05/22 6:04:22 PM
#226:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
In mcu news I got around to watching Hawkeye and I liked pretty much everything about it. Very likable cast and I liked how big of a deal they made the over arcing villain.
Yea Hawkeye was a great watch. I always liked Hawkeye in the MCU, though I really felt he was kind of given the bums rush in The Avengers, I think everything from that forward has just seen his character constantly improve.

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redrocket
06/05/22 6:13:35 PM
#227:


In fairness to War of the Worlds, LOL GERMS GOT EM was the ending from the book.

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HanOfTheNekos
06/05/22 6:19:09 PM
#228:


The problem with Loki in the TVA is that Ralph Boehner could outsmart him and at that point you know you've fucked the character beyond them deserving the name.

At least they were smart enough not to name Sylvie as Loki.

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Paratroopa1
06/05/22 6:20:02 PM
#229:


Let's be honest though literally the only time Loki has ever lived up to being a god of mischief was in What If
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HanOfTheNekos
06/05/22 6:22:20 PM
#230:


Thor 2

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Waluigi1
06/07/22 6:19:04 PM
#231:


Leonhart4 posted...
I wouldn't say "perfectly" fine, but it's still my favorite Disney Plus Marvel show and I wasn't super bothered by it.


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GuessHerUsrName
06/07/22 6:30:47 PM
#232:


https://gfycat.com/preciousdelayedguanaco
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Waluigi1
06/07/22 7:01:52 PM
#233:


What are some things that Loki did in Loki that makes him so dumb?

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GuessMyUserName
06/08/22 3:02:05 AM
#234:


ms marvel time

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Grand Kirby
06/08/22 4:08:32 AM
#235:


I really liked Ms. Marvel! The style was pretty cool, and I just found it fun and enjoyable. Can't wait to see where it leads.

Also:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/0/AABtbFAADUPw.jpg

Do people in-universe not know what Groot's name is? It's literally the only thing he says!

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DoomTheGyarados
06/08/22 4:17:54 AM
#236:


Ms. Marvel has about 4 different tropes that I really hate in media but the lead is probably going to get me through more and I hope it stops.

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GuessMyUserName
06/08/22 5:04:14 AM
#237:


fun style, love the visuals, Kamala's a charming relatable high school teen

I get it's more of a coming of age show but I was kinda waiting for the Ms. Marvel stuff. When the cosplay contest hit though I was loving it, even got her doing some faux-embiggens at least... still dunno about the bracelet being the source but we'll see, I'm looking forward to the next ep now that we're passed the powerless part of the intro.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/08/22 10:09:24 AM
#238:


Totally fell asleep, going to watch when I get home from dropping the kids at school

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IfGodCouldDie
06/08/22 12:18:16 PM
#239:


The two part series about why Thor is secretly a gamer. Had me laughing pretty good.

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HanOfTheNekos
06/08/22 6:34:17 PM
#240:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Ms. Marvel has about 4 different tropes that I really hate in media but the lead is probably going to get me through more and I hope it stops.
It was a little tropey, yeah, but I'm feeling alright because it seems to be just a youthful romp and as long as it doesn't take itself too seriously, I think it'll be a fun ride.

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Waluigi1
06/08/22 8:29:45 PM
#241:


I haven't gotten to watch it yet but I already love the actress playing Ms Marvel. The little 5 min behind the scenes thing they release a week ago was super cute. She basically already is Kamala in real life.

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#242
Post #242 was unavailable or deleted.
HanOfTheNekos
06/08/22 10:19:45 PM
#243:


She was just cast for both roles.

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mnkboy907
06/09/22 1:07:38 AM
#244:


That was fun and I hope people screencapped all the stuff at the con. I got a laugh at the America's Ass post card. Also hilarious that everyone knows everything because Ant-Man did some podcasts.

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Mac Arrowny
06/09/22 4:33:33 AM
#245:


Question about Multiverse of Madness: they implied that Strange killed our universe's Mordo before this movie happened, right?

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HanOfTheNekos
06/09/22 9:16:38 AM
#246:


Mac Arrowny posted...
Question about Multiverse of Madness: they implied that Strange killed our universe's Mordo before this movie happened, right?
They implied that Mordo became Strange's archenemy, but I don't know if they implied he killed him. Honestly, was a pretty lame way to write off a villain who could have been reoccurring and was teased early on.

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TotallyNotMI
06/09/22 10:03:15 AM
#247:


There's a delete scene from MOM where 616 Mordo attacks Wanda and she kills him. So while that death is no longer canon, the fact that they filmed it still implies that Strange did not kill 616 Mordo.

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Lopen
06/09/22 12:51:14 PM
#248:


Distinction between father and adopted father is nitpicking unless you are actually trying to belittle adopted fathers as being legitimate (which you've denied).

Distinction between "realms" and the "universes" is not as the MCU defines them.

Simple as. Love seeing scarlet doing the thing he always accuses me of doing btw.

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Lopen
06/09/22 12:55:42 PM
#249:


scarletspeed7 posted...
And traveling to a different country? If I travel to ANY country on Earth, I still know physics, I still know math. I have a phone I can use to navigate and translate

Like the proper analogy here is a different planet, not different country.

Your phone isn't going to get 5G on a different planet so it means jack. Physics at some level will be different on different planets, which would then propagate into a lot of concepts of math. Not to mention a lot of concepts of math are proven by theorems and stuff which are figured out by mathematicians-- different mathematicians, different theorems used to build up a mathematical system which could be equally valid, since math is all about internal consistency. You could have a completely different Mathematical system on a different advanced planet-- that's not to say your math is invalid, but it actually could be in the face of the accepted system on the planet, or at least thoroughly obsolete.

Anyway I have issues with Loki but it's not because he's presented as incompetent. His competency in Loki is on par with his MCU showings, really, where he's generally presented as extremely effective while executing a plan he concocts, but not the best at adapting in general when thrown into situations that are unfamiliar to him. I just think they shoehorn too much personality development into him too quickly, kinda Han's gripe where it really did need more unpacking to get where it got to rather than just showing Loki a highlight video and letting him jump to whatever personality they wanna give him.

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IfGodCouldDie
06/09/22 5:26:40 PM
#250:


So who ya got as cameos in Ms. Marvel. I'm betting Captain Marvel makes an appearance as a given, and a Rogue teaser to set up The Marvels.

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#251
Post #251 was unavailable or deleted.
MoogleKupo141
06/10/22 12:59:48 AM
#252:


Im hoping for at least a vocal cameo from Paul Rudd doing one of these podcast interviews

best case dream scenario is the post credits scene for the show is Scott Lang guesting on Conans show and setting up a clip of the battle against Thanos, but it turns out to be that clip from Mac & Me

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For your Azuarc .
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
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