Poll of the Day > Do you know a lot of pro life people?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The_Viscount posted...

you'd have to make a point before somebody could counter it.

If you can't suss the point from that short quip, I'm afraid I can't help you bud. Literally two short sentences, not that hard to figure out.

Jesserae posted...

I'm pro-choice but can't fucking stand the disgusting people who play down a fetus as not human and photoshop a fetus on to a piece of sushi (I saw this earlier today on twitter) and other outrageous disrespectful nonsense.
If the issue is medical I will always support, if the pregnancy is safe and you can provide a good life for child you should keep it, if you're dead broke, in a terrible and abusive relationship or other circumstance that would heavily detriment a child's life and future then abortion might be your best option, I see it similarly to euthanasia, if your offing yourself due to a temporary problem I don't support you, if your doing it due to a debilitating condition that will only worsen then I fully support the decision.

Most people I know are of a similar opinion, screeching no abortion ever is ridiculous, but offering abortions at a Mcdonalds drive through with a large coke and side of chips (which seems to be the level of significance many leftists place on abortion) is far more ridiculous.

I hate how abortion has become a hobby like gaming.

Jesserae posted...

Vaccine doesn't stop you from getting it, doesn't stop you from spreading it, so why are they running on a narrative of getting vaccinated to protect others?

Except it absolutely does reduce both of those risks, just not by enough of a margin to rely exclusively on them, and that's really only true for Omicron (and actually means "we should go back to locking everything down," not the "we should stop caring about vaccinations and also stop restricting anything" agenda people are trying to push with it). Delta is still around and isn't directly competing with Omicron because of how immunologically different it is, plus future variants may be more susceptible to vaccines and/or future vaccines may be more effective against Omicron. On top of that, the reduction in personal risk reduces the strain on the health care system (both from treating cases and from dealing with long Covid), so it's still strongly advisable from a public health perspective.

Jesserae posted...

For those already in a high risk category. why exactly would we want to reduce transmission in low risk groups when natural immunity has been proven so effective?

Because vaccination on top of natural immunity is even better.

Jesserae posted...

Still no acknowledgment or explanation to the reduced global mortality compared to the last decade?

Without researching that at all (since it's a very complex topic that would require pretty extensive research to come up with anything credible and reducing it to a single number captures basically none of the nuance that would make that effort worthwhile), I'd guess advances in HIV and Malaria treatment/prevention have been major factors (malaria being the leading cause of death globally), plus broader improvements in medicine overall. Perhaps more saliently, though, any comparisons you make using those figures should be done by looking at long-term trends, not picking two data points out of the air.

Jesserae posted...

$350 million in damages from far left "peaceful protests" in Minneapolis alone, 140 cities participated in these "peaceful protests", I think 25 people that died as a result wouldn't exactly call them peaceful. The far left in America is larger than the entire population of my country.

"Police should stop killing non-violent criminals for no reason" isn't exactly a far left position by the rest of the world's standards, even without getting into the fact that the vast majority of BLM protests caused no such damage and the efforts to characterize the entire movement as a bunch of violent riots are blatant propaganda circulated by the sort of people who don't see a problem with innocent black people being murdered.

The_Viscount posted...

The odds of a woman filing a false police report against you as part of a constructive eviction (or a retaliatory effort) are generally far higher than an unplanned pregnancy where precautions are actually being taken (rather than just claiming they're being taken). Especially because some police officers and other people within the system suggest it as a course of action

I gave you numbers, you gave me misogynistic fearmongering on an unrelated subject. Again, I'm not sure where your intense, blanket distrust of women comes from, but it really doesn't seem very healthy.

It has literally never come up in my life, so I have no idea.

I don't obsess over politics, though, and rarely (if ever) discuss politics with friends and family.

11110111011 posted...

It has literally never come up in my life

not that you are aware of anyways

VampireCoyote posted...

not that you are aware of anyways

No - I'm quite aware. It has never been a topic of conversation, and as such, I literally have no idea where anyone I know stands on the issue.

11110111011 posted...

No - I'm quite aware. It has never been a topic of conversation, and as such, I literally have no idea where anyone I know stands on the issue.

It might have been part of a conversation but you didnt realize that when they said watermelons, they really meant abortions.

Maybe it wasnt watermelons. Maybe it was cinnamon, maybe horses. Anything can be code for abortions.

VampireCoyote posted...

It might have been part of a conversation but you didnt realize that when they said watermelons, they really meant abortions.

Maybe it wasnt watermelons. Maybe it was cinnamon, maybe horses. Anything can be code for abortions.

Nobody uses code for abortion.

Revelation34 posted...

Nobody uses code for abortion.

Wasn't it like B,A,B,A,up,up,down,right,down?

Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

I went to a pro-abortion event today, which counter-protesters attempted to shut down. Had to block their attempts to storm the stage, corral them off to one side, and distract them with conversation so they'd leave the main speakers alone- they had pictures of medical waste to traumatize people who were telling stories about how their friends died from untreated miscarriages and DIY abortions. I did not expect to have to intercede like that... ended up having to engage with them for about an hour and a half, which was most of the event. Frustrating, because I really wanted to pay more attention to what was being said.

It was interesting. You could tell where they had recited talking points, where they had practiced attempting to redirect conversations, and where they were completely unprepared. I don't think they were ready to be surrounded by a bunch of victims of CSA, medical professionals, history buffs, and folks savvy on the subject matter of bodily autonomy and the history of medical rights keeping them from harassing the key speakers. I'm not a very good public speaker (I sometimes accidentally say the opposite of what I mean and have to correct myself, which is annoying) but I think I did okay, trying to keep people from yelling while still distracting them. I've actually never engaged with counter-protesters before; we'd been told not to, but when we realized that they were trying to fuck with the primary speakers, well... that's not acceptable.

I didn't really like when very upset people yelled at the counter-protesters- it was mostly older women who did that, I think quite a few of them have some trauma from the pre Roe Vs Wade era and it made it difficult for them to control their tempers. The counter-protesters were clearly fishing for an excuse to call the police as well, which they ended up doing anyway. It didn't cause any problems, though; it's not like anyone attacked them. I guess they felt unsafe when so many people blocked them off away from the stage, which is understandable.

Revelation34 posted...

Nobody uses code for abortion.

people use code for everything

have you actually conversed with humans?

VampireCoyote posted...

people use code for everything

have you actually conversed with humans?

So in other words: Nobody.

VampireCoyote posted...

have you actually conversed with humans?

Be patient, the AI is still learning how to interact with us

I consider myself pro-life unless the birth would result in the mother's death. Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

GGuirao13 posted...

I consider myself pro-life unless the birth would result in the mother's death. Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

No.

GGuirao13 posted...

Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

A woman should be forced to carry the child of a rapist for 9 months?

lol

GGuirao13 posted...

I consider myself pro-life unless the birth would result in the mother's death. Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

No

GGuirao13 posted...

I consider myself pro-life unless the birth would result in the mother's death. Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

imagine what a horrifying experience that would be for someone who did not choose to become pregnant

and you talk about adoption but in a lot of places kids like that would just end up in the system. That means theyd go from one group home to the next until they drop out of school and end up in prison.

GGuirao13 posted...

I consider myself pro-life unless the birth would result in the mother's death. Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

Pragnancy permanently alters the body. I don't care how someone got pregnant; no one should be forced by the government to carry a fetus to term. The fact that you know it's a body-maiming, life-threatening process but you seem to think the State should force people to endure it is unfathomable to me.

No, as someone who has repeatedly seen the outcome of what you're suggesting, you've pissed me off. I want you to read this and think about the outcomes for rape victims, especially ones who can't afford health care, that your nonsense would cause:
https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/articles/fistula-a-silent-tragedy-for-child-brides/
The government has no business, NONE, forcing people to endure this shit,especially when we have a non-universal for-profit health care system.

Metalsonic66 posted...

A woman should be forced to carry the child of a rapist for 9 months?

lol

Apparently so.

I believe its an extermination of life. But its more humane than a woman dying of an infection due to back alley abortions. And from my understanding, thats a common scenario.

Then theres the my body debate, and Im not a woman so I cant really comment. Besides, so many of my potential babies ended up on tissues in my teens.

And finally, the spiritual debate on abortion. Religious extremists believe its killing a child. Period. But the truth is, according to religion a child who died before it can be born automatically goes to heaven. A mom that dies from a ghetto abortion goes to hell(again, according to religion). So, if abortions are going to happen no matter what shouldnt we embrace the route which results in more people going to heaven than hell.

There is something else, which I was reminded of yesterday and had completely forgotten about.

A lot of you might not know this, but forced sterilization is legal at the federal level in the USA. Women are very often denied sterilization in the USA if they want it, usually with the argument that "a man might not like that you have been sterilized," but you can in fact force sterilization on people without facing penalties, so long as the person is... "unfit."

Why? Because the Supreme Court ruled on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell
https://19thnews.org/2022/02/forced-sterilization-guardianship-reproductive-justice/
It's good to know that they have their priorities in order.

It's a problem in other 1st world nations as well:
https://globalnews.ca/news/7920118/indigenous-women-sterilization-senate-report/

It would not be a problem if we did not attach a dozen asterisks to people's rights to make decisions about their own bodies.

HornedLion posted...

And finally, the spiritual debate on abortion. Religious extremists believe its killing a child. Period. But the truth is, according to religion a child who died before it can be born automatically goes to heaven. A mom that dies from a ghetto abortion goes to hell(again, according to religion). So, if abortions are going to happen no matter what shouldnt we embrace the route which results in more people going to heaven than hell.

And yet the Bible itself is very pro abortion. It says any woman suspected of cheating should have an abortion, and even provides detailed instructions for carrying out the abortion(Numbers 5:11-31). Causing a miscarriage is treated as a lesser offense than murder(Exodus 21:22). It says in numerous places that God's breath is what gives life, seemingly indicating that life begins at first breath, yet babies don't breathe on their own in the womb(e.g., Genesis 2:7). It also sets a price on people based on age and sex, but places no value on anyone younger than one month(Leviticus 27:1-7).

GGuirao13 posted...

Children born as a product of rape or incest should still have a chance to live, even if it means adoption.

How noble of you to volunteer rape victims for a sacrifice you'll never have to consider for yourself.

I know people on both sides. Personally, I am against abortion and the death penalty but I also think when a woman is pregnant, that's between her and the father and together they can decide on how they want to handle the situation. It's a personal matter and Government has no business getting in it but that's my opinion.

It should be between the woman who is pregnant and their doctor. No one else unless the woman wants them to be a part of the discussion.

Her body, her choice.

kind9 posted...

And yet the Bible itself is very pro abortion. It says any woman suspected of cheating should have an abortion, and even provides detailed instructions for carrying out the abortion(Numbers 5:11-31). Causing a miscarriage is treated as a lesser offense than murder(Exodus 21:22). It says in numerous places that God's breath is what gives life, seemingly indicating that life begins at first breath, yet babies don't breathe on their own in the womb(e.g., Genesis 2:7). It also sets a price on people based on age and sex, but places no value on anyone younger than one month(Leviticus 27:1-7).

There you go. That, too.

Whats funny is that Jesus spoke so much about the poor and how we should treat them, and not a damn thing about abortions and yet the Republican Party doesnt give a damn about the poor but have really strong feelings on abortions.

Its all a joke.

VampireCoyote posted...

It should be between the woman who is pregnant and their doctor. No one else unless the woman wants them to be a part of the discussion.

Her body, her choice.

That said, a man shouldn't get a woman pregnant without first making sure they're on the same page regarding abortion. It's not unreasonable for a man to have an opinion on what happens to his child, but that opinion should be expressed long before it becomes an issue, such that the woman can decide well in advance whether or not that opinion is in line with what she wants for her own body.

adjl posted...

That said, a man shouldn't get a woman pregnant without first making sure they're on the same page regarding abortion. It's not unreasonable for a man to have an opinion on what happens to his child, but that opinion should be expressed long before it becomes an issue, such that the woman can decide well in advance whether or not that opinion is in line with what she wants for her own body.

I dont think that anyone should have any say in the matter unless they are the doctor or the Wielder of the Uterus. End of story.

I dont associate with people who aren't politically progressively left

Arvs pro at life

adjl posted...

That said, a man shouldn't get a woman pregnant without first making sure they're on the same page regarding abortion. It's not unreasonable for a man to have an opinion on what happens to his child, but that opinion should be expressed long before it becomes an issue, such that the woman can decide well in advance whether or not that opinion is in line with what she wants for her own body.

Children and birth control in general should be openly discussed by a couple. Just putting the attention on abortion is asking for knee-jerk reactions.

VampireCoyote posted...

No one else unless the woman wants them to be a part of the discussion.

Which in a healthy relationship, would hopefully be the case.

Gaawa_chan posted...

There is something else, which I was reminded of yesterday and had completely forgotten about.

A lot of you might not know this, but forced sterilization is legal at the federal level in the USA. Women are very often denied sterilization in the USA if they want it, usually with the argument that "a man might not like that you have been sterilized," but you can in fact force sterilization on people without facing penalties, so long as the person is... "unfit."

Why? Because the Supreme Court ruled on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell
https://19thnews.org/2022/02/forced-sterilization-guardianship-reproductive-justice/
It's good to know that they have their priorities in order.

It's a problem in other 1st world nations as well:
https://globalnews.ca/news/7920118/indigenous-women-sterilization-senate-report/

It would not be a problem if we did not attach a dozen asterisks to people's rights to make decisions about their own bodies.

Which is so dumb. You cant even get sterilized if you ask (unless youve already had children or the husband allows it). And its dumb that you would have to get permission from someone else to have the choice to not have kids But at the same time, they can force you to be sterilized. Shit is so backwards in this country, and constantly moving backwards these days. Yet many people think its ok and moving forward even though all these rules are taking away rights from people that are straight white males But whatever, I guess

HornedLion posted...

There you go. That, too.

Whats funny is that Jesus spoke so much about the poor and how we should treat them, and not a damn thing about abortions and yet the Republican Party doesnt give a damn about the poor but have really strong feelings on abortions.

Its all a joke.

Its called cherry picking Pick only the parts that you care about to talk about Make sure that you only say things that match what you want to happen

Look at everyone here acting like top scholars

Is the answer to the other topic about abortion that it immediately disappeared?

Actual pro-life people rather than "pro-life until puberty" pro-death and pro-torture people?

One or two. Most of the others are the type to whine we didn't burn Iraq and Afghanistan to the ground, and quite frankly don't believe anyone outside of the USA has human rights.

Yes, but I don't know very many full on anti-abortionists though.

VampireCoyote posted...

I dont think that anyone should have any say in the matter unless they are the doctor or the Wielder of the Uterus. End of story.

They shouldn't have a say, but they should be involved in the decision-making process to enough of an extent to let them make an informed decision about whether or not they want to risk pregnancy with somebody that will/won't get an abortion if it happens. Like most aspects of relationships, open communication and informed consent are important.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Children and birth control in general should be openly discussed by a couple. Just putting the attention on abortion is asking for knee-jerk reactions.

Indeed, but those discussions can generally come up fairly organically, without any immediate urgency. You might end up not having sex that night if you only realize on the way into bed that you aren't comfortable with the current birth control situation, but that's about the worst that will happen (unless you end up with a pregnancy because you decide to take the risk, but that's a failure of self-control rather than a failure of communication).

By contrast, a lot of couples tacitly assume they won't have to worry about abortion if they use birth control, so they just don't consider or discuss it until an accidental pregnancy actually happens. That's not a good time to discover you have fundamentally opposed opinions on abortion. It's a much better idea to discuss it early (ideally, before there's any risk of pregnancy at all) so everyone's on the same page if it happens. That discussion can indeed be emotionally charged, possibly even to the point of breaking up the couple, but I'd rather see couples with incompatible views on abortion break up before a pregnancy shows up than after.

VampireCoyote posted...

Wielder of the Uterus

Fuck "birthing person," this is the new terminology. Nice.

Alternatively, "Womb-bearer."

adjl posted...

Alternatively, "Womb-bearer."

their second album is incredible

Rise of the Womb Raider