Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Voyage To The Sunken City - Year of the Hydra

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metroid composite
05/05/22 11:44:10 AM
#51:


Camden posted...
Played Battlegrounds for the first time since maybe a year ago, and holy hell is everything different. I don't think I saw a single minion I recognized until about four turns in, there's a damage cap though I don't know if it scales or just goes away, starting armor, hero specific minions. The days of sitting there with 30 seconds remaining after doing what you need to do, waiting for the combat to start, were gone for me as I was just trying to figure out what everything was and/or did.
That's pretty much me with battlegrounds. When it was new I was like "hey new game mode" and spent time learning the strategy, got good enough, but didn't play for a few months, and now I usually don't even know what's going on anymore.

Not that the game mode fundamentally changed or anything--even when it launched you needed to memorize cards and know what kind of cards you were going for, know what cards to build around, and that if you found a card you should shift your entire gameplan around it. (Cobalt Guardian was one of those cards when I was learning).

They just introduced new cards, and buffed and nerfed various cards, so you basically need to re-learn the whole strategy of picking cards, even if you had a sense of strategy six months ago.

Feels a lot more unforgiving than constructed, where you can copy a decklist online, and then just remember general principles about when to trade your minions and stuff and you'll probably do fine. It's like...constructed if you were not allowed to net deck or use the auto-complete feature. And also had 90 seconds to build your deck.

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Camden
05/05/22 3:02:30 PM
#52:


I was overloaded with Battlegrounds information after only one game, just in time for them to release a new patch and overload me all over again.

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LiquidOshawott
05/06/22 1:35:44 PM
#53:


Amalgadons are gonna be gone

regular amalgams are coming back though, at tier 3 this time

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skullbone
05/06/22 4:22:24 PM
#54:


Also Buddies are gone too. Tempting to reinstall Hearthstone to play some BGs but I know it's not a good idea.

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metroid composite
05/07/22 10:21:35 AM
#55:


LiquidOshawott posted...
regular amalgams are coming back though, at tier 3 this time
Tier 3 is a big step down. As a tier 2, 3/4 was often the most stats you could put on the board, and then just happened to scale really well into the lategame.

Now it's going to be weak initially, but a good long-term investment.

And also: not every game will have both mechs and murlocs, since tribes rotate out each game.

And also: Toxfin and gentle megasaur are gone. If you want to give Nightmare Amalgam poisonous, you need to use SI:Selfin, and trigger Avenge (4) while both the Amalgam and SI:Selfin are still alive, and you might have to do this twice since the Selfin can give itself poisonous. And you might need to hold off on using Annoy-o-module on your amalgam, cause that also gives taunt, which is going to make it hard to trigger Avenge (4) while the Amalgam is still alive. So you'll potentially be sitting there with an Annoy-o-module and not using it for a few turns.

On the flip side, you will be able to give it reborn cause it's a beast--that's new, that wasn't a thing the last time Nightmare Amalgam was around. I'm guessing it just reborns as a 3/1 without any keywords, so I'm not sure this accomplishes anything.

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LiquidOshawott
05/07/22 11:47:46 AM
#56:


Yeah thats exactly what it does

but if it avenge triggers again you can give it poisonous again

I think the biggest thing is this makes menagerie more of a thing again, especially with the new tier 6 minion

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Camden
05/07/22 8:05:11 PM
#57:


Are there any decks out there right now where it's worth running Murozond against them? Playing Dragon Priest and the vast majority of the time it's just sitting in my hand until the game is over. Even the few times I've played it it's been mostly because I have mana to spend and nothing else in my hand to spend it on, not because it's actually good at the time.

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LiquidOshawott
05/07/22 9:18:17 PM
#58:


Not really

I guess you steal a colossus but a lot of stuff this meta is pretty battlecry heavy


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Joelypoely
05/07/22 11:02:28 PM
#59:


I feel a little bit bad that they're removing buddies from Battlegrounds (for now). Some were boring, but overall it was a positive addition to the game. Was nice seeing AFK up there with the best heroes.

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LiquidOshawott
05/09/22 1:24:42 PM
#60:


https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23784375/23-2-patch-notes

full patch notes, no standard changes but BG has a bunch of new ones, and plenty new quality of life features (like upgrade to golden, for instance)

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LiquidOshawott
05/16/22 4:21:37 PM
#61:


Yay we are getting buffs and nerfs

Standard should be pretty obvious, Multistrike/Drekthar/Shield Shatter. Maybe a chance for Cariel too but idk, buff the 4 classes that dont really see play

Nagas the tier 3 Naga that plays spellcast is nuts and maybe just deleting that is good enough

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#62
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metroid composite
05/19/22 12:40:45 PM
#63:


Patch notes for today with 3 nerfs and 18 buffs.

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23797162

Drek'thar nerfed into the ground (anyone who bought diamond drek'thar gets 3000 gold refund and keeps diamond Drek'thar).

Multi-strike goes to 2 mana

Dragonbane Shot goes to 3 mana

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Buffs...18 cards have been buffed. Archetypes buffed:

Curse Warlock

Murloc Warlock

Thief Rogue

SI:7 Rogue

four random priest cards

Big beast hunter

Xhilag

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#64
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metroid composite
05/19/22 2:18:54 PM
#65:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Curse Warlock has no chance.
I could legit just see the two buffed curse cards being slotted into an aggro deck. 3 mana 3/4 deal 2 damage to the enemy hero is a playable aggro card. 3 mana 3/4 deal 4 damage to the enemy hero is a great aggro card.

I don't think the version of curse warlock with Runed Mithril Rod and lots of card draw to set up an OTK with curses is going to be very good, though, no.

UltimaterializerX posted...
I cannot *believe* warrior and paladin saw no nerfs.

From the Depths+Finley is a stupid combo, I think that's my main objection to warrior right now (despite neither of those cards being individually unreasonable). I don't object to there being a solid control deck that can beat aggro, but said deck shouldn't be able to highroll into an OTK on turn 5-6.

Paladin...nothing super jumps out as a problem in Paladin, except Cariel. I kind-of expect Cariel to be nerfed at some point, but at least you can tech weapon destruction against her.

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#66
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Camden
05/19/22 2:22:08 PM
#67:


Cariel is interesting, because I could see arguments to nerf it in multiple different ways and I'm not sure which one I'd like to see more.

Edit: Honestly, removing Smite would in itself be enough of a nerf to Cariel that I think I might leave it alone.

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#68
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metroid composite
05/19/22 2:58:50 PM
#69:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Smite needs a battlecry that reads cannot attack heroes this turn along with giving pirates rush instead of charge.
Nobody would play that, lol.

Don't get me wrong--Smite in its current form? Good card. Wouldn't blink if it got a small nerf at some point. But taking away charge from both smite AND smite's aura is...a lot.

Why would anybody pay 6 mana for animated broomstick?

(Now, if you wanted to sell me on a rush based Smite, maybe you could do so with "Battlecry: for the rest of the game your pirates have rush"--that would be kinda like the hero card Dr Boom Mad Genius with mechs. Probably wouldn't be very good, but at least it's a card I'd have some interest in trying).

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#70
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skullbone
05/19/22 3:12:22 PM
#71:


Ben Brode's new game finally revealed:

Marvel Snap

First look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61zjv1HcJDI

Gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMEEHH1E8ko

It honestly looks pretty good and it's fun to see weird Marvel characters getting cards.

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metroid composite
05/19/22 3:35:12 PM
#72:


UltimaterializerX posted...
It's why I'm shocked they actually killed Drekthar.
Drek'thar's nerf is way smaller than the nerf you're suggesting to Smite.

Wild players are already discussing if Drek'thar is worth keeping in Spirit of the Frog Shaman post-nerf. Drek'thar was hit pretty hard, but it still has some of the same functionality--4 mana 4/4 that tutors a card from your deck and puts it into play.

Drek'thar's going to be pretty niche now, but it's still a card that some decks will consider.

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#73
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changmas
05/19/22 3:43:56 PM
#74:


skullbone posted...
Ben Brode's new game finally revealed:

Marvel Snap

First look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61zjv1HcJDI

Gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMEEHH1E8ko

It honestly looks pretty good and it's fun to see weird Marvel characters getting cards.


Gwent for people who don't have an attention span lol


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#75
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metroid composite
05/19/22 3:57:34 PM
#76:


Brode has a professional-tier announcer voice.

Like...the only people I can think of with better announcer voices announce stuff for a living. And even then I can think of plenty of professional e-sports casters with worse voices.

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skullbone
05/19/22 4:24:22 PM
#77:


changmas posted...
Gwent for people who don't have an attention span lol

Yeah there definitely is some Gwent overlap but the 3 locations being randomized out of a pool of like 50+ every game adds a lot of variety I think. Also the cube bluffing is a really cool dynamic. I don't mind quicker games as long as they actually have some decent strategy happening.

My main worry is that the 6 turn limit and the simplicity of the design will limit how creative they can be with cards. But a 12 card deck means you can build some fun synergies and see them happen more often then not. I think there will be a lot more custom decks in this game instead of meta decking the best 10 decks or whatever.

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metroid composite
05/19/22 5:12:06 PM
#78:


skullbone posted...
Also the cube bluffing is a really cool dynamic.
It's a cool dynamic, but also...sounds like a gameplay mechanic that's not for me personally.

As someone who plays probably more than half of her hearthstone games in casual, cause I often don't feel like playing for points, making ladder matches cost even more points is not really a direction I'm excited about.

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metroid composite
05/19/22 5:18:04 PM
#79:


Side note, I'm surprised I haven't seen much discussion of Xhilag post-buffs.

Like...yeah, it was a joke before the buffs, but going from 4 damage to 8 damage is a pretty substantial increase. Priestess of Fury was 6 random damage at the end of your turn, to compare to another 7 drop.

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changmas
05/19/22 5:48:14 PM
#80:


skullbone posted...
Yeah there definitely is some Gwent overlap but the 3 locations being randomized out of a pool of like 50+ every game adds a lot of variety I think. Also the cube bluffing is a really cool dynamic. I don't mind quicker games as long as they actually have some decent strategy happening.

My main worry is that the 6 turn limit and the simplicity of the design will limit how creative they can be with cards. But a 12 card deck means you can build some fun synergies and see them happen more often then not. I think there will be a lot more custom decks in this game instead of meta decking the best 10 decks or whatever.

You're correct. They're taking a bit of a page out of autobattlers like TFT and roguelites like slay the spire which should add an element of skill / strategy to manage your cards with a changing rotation of locations.

And I actually really like the bluffing mechanic. It's a bit like poker betting.

Overall the game sounds fun - the only real issue for me being that I have zero interest in the Marvel brand whatsoever. (Or perhaps worse than zero interest, a slight distaste for Marvel).


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metroid composite
05/20/22 11:56:18 AM
#81:


Interestingly, Languagehacker on seeing the nerf announcement didn't feel that the missing nerf was to warrior or paladin, but rather druid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3AbtoYkf80

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#82
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LiquidOshawott
05/20/22 1:05:26 PM
#83:


I feel like Thief Rogue got massive buffs with the Wildpaw revert so it could honestly go toe to toe with Paladin/Warrior, especially if it runs Scabbs or Hooktusk

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#84
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metroid composite
05/20/22 11:13:22 PM
#85:


LiquidOshawott posted...
I feel like Thief Rogue got massive buffs with the Wildpaw revert so it could honestly go toe to toe with Paladin/Warrior, especially if it runs Scabbs or Hooktusk
A lot of streamers are running thief rogue right now and saying it is quite good, yeah.

Not just gnoll, 2 mana Tooth of Nefarian is just...very good. I saw someone predict tooth of nefarian to 2 and I remember saying I thought that might be just too strong, that it would just go in every rogue deck. Card's...really strong from everything I've seen so far.

Might need to be changed to not go face or something.

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LiquidOshawott
05/20/22 11:44:08 PM
#86:


I mean Rogue already has Wicked Stab, giving it more burn just seems kinda silly


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#87
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metroid composite
05/21/22 1:36:16 PM
#88:


I mean, it's definitely more in line with the rest of the game at 2 mana than it was at 3 mana.

That said...I play darkbomb in wild; 2 mana deal 3 damage that can go face is a card I'm willing to put in decks with zero bonus.

Granted there are other 2 mana deal 3 cards with a small bonus, but I think Tooth has the best bonus among those cards now.

I think it's better than quickshot. Easier to trigger condition.

I think it's better than Frostbite. Same condition (honourable kill), but discover a card is probably slightly better than +2 cost on their next spell even ignoring possible synergies. (And it's definitely better if you're running thief payoff cards like gnolls and double agents).

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metroid composite
05/21/22 11:05:48 PM
#89:


LOL heard in a wild podcast:

"I think you can play any class in wild now, except warrior."

RIP pirate warrior.

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#90
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metroid composite
05/22/22 1:49:55 PM
#91:


Mmm...as far as Gnoll goes, obviously it's quite good now, but my opinion varies significantly depending on what rogue decks actually end up being good when the meta settles.

If it's something like pre-rotation weapon rogue with garotte...yeah, that's terrible. Fortunately that deck is super dead (lost cloak of shadows, lost most of its card draw) so there's almost no risk of that deck coming back any time soon.

If it's thief rogue...if that deck is really the tier 1 best rogue deck and the meta has few or limited answers to it...eh, I guess nerfing gnoll again would be sensible.

If the best rogue deck turns out to be the deck JAlexander was playing, a.k.a. pirate rogue with a small thief package that still plays 1 drop pirates on turn 1, meaning Gnolls only get discounted to 4 mana from Maestra (and maybe 3 with Tooth of Nefarian) then LOL no: Gnolls are fine.

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It's really hard to guess the meta at this point, but my guess would be that the JAlexander deck that's mostly aggro pirate warrior that doesn't discount gnoll much might actually be the best build of rogue. IDK, this might just be my wild player bias creeping in, I might be reading standard the wrong way, but playing 1 drops on turn 1 just sounds like a significant tempo advantage over trading tradeables and playing nothing for the first couple turns.

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#92
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metroid composite
05/23/22 2:45:16 AM
#94:


Couple interesting tidbits from the VS podcast:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/uvrqg7/summary_of_the_5222022_vicious_syndicate_podcast/

"ZachO says that (shockingly) most Demon Hunters on ladder are still running Drek'Thar. Drek'Thar is still a top 5 card performance wise in those lists, but it's no longer worth the deck building cost to run it."

Sort of what I guessed, but interesting to see it confirmed; if you didn't have any 4+ cost minions you wanted to run anyway, Drek'thar is probably still worth running. This is mostly relevant for wild (there aren't really standard decks that can sensibly cut all their 4+ drops).

Also, in terms of overall balance, they had this to say:

"right now the new meta looks very balanced on the surface. ZachO thinks that post refinement there will be a lot of Tier 2 decks with very little to no Tier 1 decks, as no deck right now looks dominant. [...] Every class other than Demon Hunter looks like it has at least one viable deck, and Demon Hunter may still be good once it's refined for the postpatch nerfs."

Which...kind of matches my impression. I was having trouble really pinning this meta down. Like...if I had to guess the best deck at high levels, maybe Naga mage? But there's so much skill ceiling on that deck, so realistically at my MMR I'm not likely to run into someone who plays that deck close to optimally.

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metroid composite
05/26/22 1:42:09 PM
#95:


New VS report out:

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-231/

Tier 1 includes:

Holy Paladin
Mech Paladin
Control Warrior
Burn Shaman
Naga Priest

The big surprises to me, from watching high legend streams, are Burn Shaman and Holy Paladin--not a lot of those were showing up in high legend. I knew Shaman was fine cause I saw McBanterface use it in part of his tournament lineup, but I didn't think it was tier 1 at top legend level of "fine".

Thief Rogue not being tier 1 is...not too surprising TBH. Naga Mage not being tier 1 is a little more surprising to me, but the report clarifies that it looked tier 1 for the first day or two after the balance changes before the meta adapted, so OK fair enough.

I guess I'm a little surprised by Naga Priest being tier 1. Knew the deck was pretty good, saw several streamers trying it out, but I didn't think it was that good.

A bunch of the buffed decks (curse warlock, big best hunter, murloc warlock) are playable tier 3 at high legend, but very good at lower ranks. (Also apparently quest warrior is back and exhibits pretty similar overall winrates to those at most ranks).

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#96
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#97
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#98
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metroid composite
05/27/22 3:10:21 PM
#99:


Reveals starting for the mini-set.

Neptulon the Tidehunter (10 mana colossal elemental--looks very similar to Raid Boss Onyxia including the rush and immune while attacking).

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/uz3zzy/new_card_revealed_neptulon_the_tidehunter/

Ozumat (8 mana colossal beast. It has a deathrattle that can wipe the enemy board if its tentacles are still alive; really looks like you'll need some synergy to activate the deathrattle before you choose to run this card):

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/uz4b8t/new_card_revealed_ozumat/

Neutral 1 mana 2/4 elemental with "after this minion takes exactly 1 damage, destroy it"

Neutral 4 mana 5/4 beast with "look at 3 cards in your opponent's hand and choose one; it can't be played next turn".

Neutral 3 mana 3/3 beast with "battlecry: give all battlecry minions in your deck +1/+1"

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Camden
05/27/22 3:39:36 PM
#100:


Pop!

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FFDragon
05/27/22 3:48:44 PM
#101:


metroid composite posted...
Neutral 1 mana 2/4 elemental with "after this minion takes exactly 1 damage, destroy it"

https://imgur.com/ZREyn7l

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